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 His Master's Voice wrote:
Oh.

Oh dear...

It's just a Kislevite war wagon.

JSG wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Oh.

Oh dear...

It's just a Kislevite war wagon.

If the War Wagon ran on magic ice instead of wheels and was pulled by enormous war bears instead of horses, sure.

JSG wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Oh.

Oh dear...

It's just a Kislevite war wagon.

It's a war wagon that's jumped the shark.

Hey, at least the actual GW model will be easy to modify - just stick some wheel on it and call it a day.

I kinda like the bears here more than on the artillery piece. Once you get past the idea that bears have been domesticated, having them pull the chariot is kinda reasonable, for a given value of the word.

Individually the two main elements of it fit Kislev and don't seem out of place, yet the context here is quite odd.

Bears a huge part of Kislev society and feature prominently in their culture, so seeing them on the Battlefield shouldn't be a surprise and it makes sense to have units of Bears and special bear riders and such...but used to pull a basic sled doesn't seem of enough importance.

The Ice magic is another relatively big part of Kislev society, with the Ice Witches and all that....but enchanting a basic wooden sled is just baffling.

It's like they've taken something special and then wasted it on something common and cheap.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Individually the two main elements of it fit Kislev and don't seem out of place, yet the context here is quite odd.

Bears a huge part of Kislev society and feature prominently in their culture, so seeing them on the Battlefield shouldn't be a surprise and it makes sense to have units of Bears and special bear riders and such...but used to pull a basic sled doesn't seem of enough importance.

The Ice magic is another relatively big part of Kislev society, with the Ice Witches and all that....but enchanting a basic wooden sled is just baffling.

It's like they've taken something special and then wasted it on something common and cheap.

It's kitsch.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Individually the two main elements of it fit Kislev and don't seem out of place, yet the context here is quite odd.

Bears a huge part of Kislev society and feature prominently in their culture, so seeing them on the Battlefield shouldn't be a surprise and it makes sense to have units of Bears and special bear riders and such...but used to pull a basic sled doesn't seem of enough importance.

The Ice magic is another relatively big part of Kislev society, with the Ice Witches and all that....but enchanting a basic wooden sled is just baffling.

It's like they've taken something special and then wasted it on something common and cheap.

Well, if you think of it as a 'basic wooden sled' instead of a 'fething powerful cannon,' maybe. But one of those is slightly more accurate to what's going on.

Voss wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Individually the two main elements of it fit Kislev and don't seem out of place, yet the context here is quite odd.

Bears a huge part of Kislev society and feature prominently in their culture, so seeing them on the Battlefield shouldn't be a surprise and it makes sense to have units of Bears and special bear riders and such...but used to pull a basic sled doesn't seem of enough importance.

The Ice magic is another relatively big part of Kislev society, with the Ice Witches and all that....but enchanting a basic wooden sled is just baffling.

It's like they've taken something special and then wasted it on something common and cheap.

Well, if you think of it as a 'basic wooden sled' instead of a 'fething powerful cannon,' maybe. But one of those is slightly more accurate to what's going on.

I'm not talking about the canon sled that has Little Grom on it, though. This is a basic wooden sled with hide armour and a few guys standing inside.

Ah. Looking at the video, no, I wouldn't call that a basic wooden sled either. And not just because a 'basic wouldn't sled' wouldn't fit 'a few guys.'

 Lord Damocles wrote:

JSG wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Oh.

Oh dear...

It's just a Kislevite war wagon.

If the War Wagon ran on magic ice instead of wheels and was pulled by enormous war bears instead of horses, sure.

I know, right! It's glorious! Who would have predicted such a big improvement on the original?

Voss wrote:
Ah. Looking at the video, no, I wouldn't call that a basic wooden sled either. And not just because a 'basic wouldn't sled' wouldn't fit 'a few guys.'

4 seconds in, that's a quite basic wooden frame with some hide and shields roughly strapped onto it. The one at 10 seconds is a more elaborate, ornate, heavily armoured version, but what I meant is that neither of them are really something on the level of being something you'd expect to have a magical ice-sled towed by bears. It's like if the Empire War Wagon was towed by demigrpyhs and had a steam-powered air cushion to levitate it rather than wheels, while still little more than a wooden box with some armour for pikemen to stand in - the locomotion method and the level of importance/specialty suggested by those is then heavily undermined by them being attached to something that's effectively just a basic common item. Those aspects feel overdone because the sled part of it doesn't meet that same standard as the rest of it.

I've been a fan of Kislev for a long time and still have some miniatures stored away for a WHFB project that never came together. I like everything I'm seeing. Seems like a nice mix of the traditional units/looks and more ice magic as a unifying theme for the army.

I'm hardly someone who complains about high magic, but in this context it...idk, it doesn't work. I think war wagons are such an iconic look that turning them into ice-sleds just makes them less imposing if anything. This feels like a way to cheap out on 3d animations and models instead of artistic decision.

Cronch wrote:
I'm hardly someone who complains about high magic, but in this context it...idk, it doesn't work. I think war wagons are such an iconic look that turning them into ice-sleds just makes them less imposing if anything. This feels like a way to cheap out on 3d animations and models instead of artistic decision.

They were designed for TOW, not TW:W3 though.

They were designed for both, and Idk, I have a feeling it's a lot more TOW following TW:W3 than the other way round. One of them is a proven successful product.

Cronch wrote:
They were designed for both, and Idk, I have a feeling it's a lot more TOW following TW:W3 than the other way round. One of them is a proven successful product.

They've outright said the new units and such seen for Kislev were designed for TOW project and then used in TW:W3.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Cronch wrote:
They were designed for both, and Idk, I have a feeling it's a lot more TOW following TW:W3 than the other way round. One of them is a proven successful product.

They've outright said the new units and such seen for Kislev were designed for TOW project and then used in TW:W3.

Which doesn't preclude the fact that TWW1, 2, and/or 3 may have inspired the direction of TOW (and by extension the Kislev designs) in the first place.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Cronch wrote:
They were designed for both, and Idk, I have a feeling it's a lot more TOW following TW:W3 than the other way round. One of them is a proven successful product.

They've outright said the new units and such seen for Kislev were designed for TOW project and then used in TW:W3.

Which doesn't preclude the fact that TWW1, 2, and/or 3 may have inspired the direction of TOW (and by extension the Kislev designs) in the first place.

I don't see why TW:W3 would have had any affect on the updated aesthetics of Kislev. The idea that they'd design these entirely new units in a way that'll be better for the video game that'll be based on them rather than doing what they think is best for the tabletop time primarily sounds a bit strange.

Tear off the ice, slap some wheels and horses to it, and it will be probably be a great looking Kislev war wagon.

I really like the design of the basic infantry and cavalry, but I fear that size creep will make it hard to blend them into my middlehammer kislev army.

The ice reminds me of the visual style of Warcraft, and that's not a good thing.

I like the bears but the ice effect is really out of place. Can't the sled just be a sled?

Yep, seems like a case of trying too much to give them an unique visual apparence

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

They've outright said the new units and such seen for Kislev were designed for TOW project and then used in TW:W3.

And luckily GW never lies.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

They've outright said the new units and such seen for Kislev were designed for TOW project and then used in TW:W3.

And luckily GW never lies.

Why would they lie about this?

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

They've outright said the new units and such seen for Kislev were designed for TOW project and then used in TW:W3.

And luckily GW never lies.

Just why would they lie about designing Kislev units for TOW project?

Eugh.

Now, if they don't have the weird ice-cushion when they're on battlefields which are actually covered in snow those would look cool. The glowey magic ice cushion though. Eugh.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

They've outright said the new units and such seen for Kislev were designed for TOW project and then used in TW:W3.

And luckily GW never lies.

Just why would they lie about designing Kislev units for TOW project?

I'm not sure why there is such controversy about this. Bears, sled and ice cushion being the same with a choice of a fighting platform or cannon is classic GW dual kit design.

I dont see the problem with the ice. I mean wheels? In deep snow? Be prepared to not be able to move anywhere.

Perhaps its the Canadian in me but that would be hella dumb. A nice flat base that can rest ontop of snow and not sink is is superior in every respect.

As for the bears, Kislev worship Ursun, a bear god. So your not really domesticating anything. They just come when summoned by a priest of Ursun. Similar to how Wolves are related to Ulric and how they can be summoned in by their priests. (which is already been established in the lore with the Cult of Ulric.)

I mean kislevites usin bears as both mounts and animals for war is no different than orks and goblins using boars and wolves, both real life animals that weren't used in those context because they are wild ones.

But I agree the sleed would look better as just a sleed.

Kislev Roster for TW:W3 revealed

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-3-kislev-roster-reveal/

Includes more concept art of various units. Presumably those concepts are all done for TOW, as the bear shown is an edited version of the concept we saw for TOW. The Ice guard ended up quite a bit different from their previous concept too.

Never realized Warhammer was missing a Rasputin character