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2021/07/22 22:00:03
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Clousseau
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Just need to keep trying and not giving up at the first absence of answer, thinking "it's not worth it anyway".
I tried for a solid six years. No one wanted to play whfb near me. They were more open to trying out Conquest which is where I jumped for a while. Of course your mileage may vary depending on where you are.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/22 22:01:28
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2021/07/22 22:04:41
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Paramount Plague Censer Bearer
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I've never played WHFB, nor have I played AOS, but I have played the total war games, and have come to like Skaven a lot. For some reason, I'm not interested at all in AOS, but would like to try WHFB.
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‘What Lorgar’s fanatics have not seen is that these gods are nothing compared to the power and the majesty of the Machine-God. Already, members of our growing cult are using the grace of the Omnissiah – the true Omnissiah, not Terra’s false prophet – to harness the might of the warp. Geller fields, warp missiles, void shields, all these things you are familiar with. But their underlying principles can be turned to so much more. Through novel exploitations of these technologies we will gain mastery first over the energies of the empyrean, then over the lesser entities, until finally the very gods themselves will bend the knee and recognise the supremacy of the Machine-God"
- Heretek Ardim Protos in Titandeath by Guy Haley |
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2021/07/22 22:09:41
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Surprised that GW haven't done anything with skaven since the end times. I always toughy they were a popular army
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lost and damned log
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/519978.page#6525039 |
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2021/07/22 22:14:03
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Paramount Plague Censer Bearer
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They could just not have any motivation to do much with skaven.
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‘What Lorgar’s fanatics have not seen is that these gods are nothing compared to the power and the majesty of the Machine-God. Already, members of our growing cult are using the grace of the Omnissiah – the true Omnissiah, not Terra’s false prophet – to harness the might of the warp. Geller fields, warp missiles, void shields, all these things you are familiar with. But their underlying principles can be turned to so much more. Through novel exploitations of these technologies we will gain mastery first over the energies of the empyrean, then over the lesser entities, until finally the very gods themselves will bend the knee and recognise the supremacy of the Machine-God"
- Heretek Ardim Protos in Titandeath by Guy Haley |
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2021/07/22 22:34:19
Subject: Re:Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Using Object Source Lighting
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I played WFB back in the day then they just nuked it... AoS was the replacement... so I rebased every damn thing and got rid of some armies I had no patience to rebase... but never got to grips with playing much now, specially with covid.... now they bring back WFB...square bases and make funny remarks about it... Im not laughing and I doubt people that changed their armies and spent money and time on rebasing loads and loads of models are amused!
You know what? Keep your Freaking games and shove your square pointy bases up your...noses. No patience for this crap.
I will build minis and armies for the looks only and thats it. I mean I moved on and dont want to go back, specially after only 4 or 5 years.
GW is drunk to rehash all the bad vibes about the nuking. Potentially will split and kill both games. Probably not, people have fish memory.
Not for me.
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2021/07/22 23:10:15
Subject: Re:Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Regular Dakkanaut
Canada
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That sucks, but you shouldn't have rebased in the first place. 5 years is nothing, you need to have the iron will of a monk to navigate GWs garbage business practices.
If it wasn't on squares it would probably be DOA.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/22 23:17:35
Old World Prediction: The Empire will have stupid Clockwork Paragon Warsuits and Mecha Horses |
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2021/07/22 23:19:47
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Utilizing Careful Highlighting
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I rebased my huge Daemon army on rounds for use in 40K. It took forever (I have over 100 Plaguebearers alone). But I have some movement trays made from the WOTR trays for when I play Old Hammer.
Depending on what's playable, I'll either run my Daemons in TOW or finish rebasing my Warriors of Chaos (which I started for AD&D) and use the same movement tray trick.
Either way, I'm very curious to see what they do with the new ruleset.
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2021/07/22 23:24:39
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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KidCthulhu wrote:I rebased my huge Daemon army on rounds for use in 40K. It took forever (I have over 100 Plaguebearers alone). But I have some movement trays made from the WOTR trays for when I play Old Hammer.
Depending on what's playable, I'll either run my Daemons in TOW or finish rebasing my Warriors of Chaos (which I started for AD&D) and use the same movement tray trick.
Either way, I'm very curious to see what they do with the new ruleset.
I went to 9th Age after they shot WHFB behind the barn. So I didn't need to rebase. GW don't have good people for rules writing anymore so don't hold your breath. Automatically Appended Next Post: Goose LeChance wrote:I'm surprised they're committing to square bases but it's a good sign.
Gatekeep everything AoS, including model design. If you want to play AoS just play AoS.
Honestly, you guys shouldn't have re-based onto circles in the first place.. bunch of traitors.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/22 23:45:29
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2021/07/22 23:59:12
Subject: Re:Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Regular Dakkanaut
Canada
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It'll be interesting to see how well new units rank up, WHFB had a lot of problems with scale creep, base sizes and ranking up. CAD design should help, but can the sculptors resist making every model breakdance or do a backflip? Can they resist increasing weapon sizes, hands and arms with every new kit?!?
Only time will tell.
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Old World Prediction: The Empire will have stupid Clockwork Paragon Warsuits and Mecha Horses |
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2021/07/23 00:06:20
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Sabotage! wrote:With how unprofitable 8th edition was for GW (I’ve seen several sources claim it made less than 10% what 40k did), it is weird to see GW take another stab at it. I’ve seen a lot of people say it’s because TW has been popular, but 99% of the people that play it are computer gamers and won’t touch a miniatures game, much less an extremely expensive, time consuming (to get to table) game like WHFB.
Maybe they will just make new rules and bundle up some of the old models in bundles with an occasional FW release?
I am pretty interested to see what they do with it. I hope the game is more like 6th, which I greatly enjoyed, and less like 8th (which I hated).
If TOW ends up to be a R&F game then it will become a train wreck from the start. Meanwhile I will be standing at the sidelines and taking pictures.
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2021/07/23 00:11:30
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Powerful Pegasus Knight
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If TOW ends up as rank and flank, it will do well
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2021/07/23 00:37:58
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Clousseau
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They already said that The Old World is essentially a new version of WHFB taking the parts they like from 3rd through 8th - so yeah it'll be rank and flank.
And yeah - I think it will do well. There is a larger demand for rank and flank than people that have no interest in rank and flank think.
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2021/07/23 00:48:16
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Powerful Ushbati
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TheBestBucketHead wrote:I've never played WHFB, nor have I played AOS, but I have played the total war games, and have come to like Skaven a lot. For some reason, I'm not interested at all in AOS, but would like to try WHFB.
Have you actually played it? I'd recommend trying it before passing judgement, it's a very good game with a fantastic playerbase full of friendly people.
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2021/07/23 00:50:58
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Utilizing Careful Highlighting
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Strg Alt wrote:
I went to 9th Age after they shot WHFB behind the barn. So I didn't need to rebase. GW don't have good people for rules writing anymore so don't hold your breath.
I wasn't necessarily holding my breath, just curious to see how this plays out.
In the meantime, I'm going back to Oldhammer. I've just ordered a secondhand copy of Ravening Hordes to play 6th again for funsies. There's also getting crushed in 8th by my only remaining opponent.
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2021/07/23 01:33:24
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Dakka Veteran
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AOS is a "meh" game. It's better than 40k, but still far too aura-reroll-MW dependent. Like 40k, most "special" rules are a handful of simple effects with different names. From what Iv'e seen on GMG, AOS 3.0 is even more static with the big objective control zones.
I wasn't able to start WHFB, so I am crossing my fingers that TOW is a good ruleset. I do wish GW had just started right before the End Times and branched off. Insisting on continuity with AOS is silly.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/23 01:44:03
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2021/07/23 02:49:56
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps
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Blastaar wrote:AOS is a "meh" game. It's better than 40k, but still far too aura-reroll- MW dependent. Like 40k, most "special" rules are a handful of simple effects with different names. From what Iv'e seen on GMG, AOS 3.0 is even more static with the big objective control zones.
I wasn't able to start WHFB, so I am crossing my fingers that TOW is a good ruleset. I do wish GW had just started right before the End Times and branched off. Insisting on continuity with AOS is silly.
On a good note, AoS3.0 is so far removing a lot of re-rolls (sans charges, spellcasting, and prayers) in favor of capped modifiers.
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2021/07/23 02:50:49
Subject: Re:Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Goose LeChance wrote:That sucks, but you shouldn't have rebased in the first place. 5 years is nothing, you need to have the iron will of a monk to navigate GWs garbage business practices.
If it wasn't on squares it would probably be DOA.
I would be more interested if it had circle bases as I find them more aesthetically pleasing.
I get it that square bases are more useful for a rank & formation game, but the circle bases are prettier
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2021/07/23 02:52:58
Subject: Re:Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Carlovonsexron wrote:I would be more interested if it had circle bases as I find them more aesthetically pleasing.
I get it that square bases are more useful for a rank & formation game, but the circle bases are prettier
Circle bases are prettier when you're looking at a single model. Circle bases ranked up just look odd.
For a r&f game, square bases are the only sensible choice.
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2021/07/23 06:00:02
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Second Story Man
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Square bases in Skirmish look ok to good, depending on the Skirmish
the difference is more like that round bases give an impression of 360° vision, were square make you think of 90-180°
for now there are more more models for Fantasy R&F available than ever and it is also cheaper than ever to get an army
everyone who claims that it is impossible to make a Warhammer Army today did not even try to make one
and if one claims that he means a "true" Warhammer Army with all original models, well this did not even happen back than when GW was the only one selling plastic fantasy models and is just an excuse to make it impossible
Strg Alt wrote:If TOW ends up to be a R&F game then it will become a train wreck from the start. Meanwhile I will be standing at the sidelines and taking pictures.
if it will be a train wreck or not depends only if GW makes the same mistakes again and this has nothing to do if it is R&F (which it it will) or Skirmish
it is all about initial rules and support
if it is a one box game with 2 follow up books and nothing else for a year combined with the usual bad rules, it will be dead after the first hype wave
if GW at least try to make rules, give out FAQ/Errata on time and comes up with a campaign book every 6 months, there is nothing to stop it
specially in countries like Germany
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Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise |
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2021/07/23 06:50:27
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Keeper of the Flame
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chaos0xomega wrote: Just Tony wrote:Anyone with access to the lexicon knows that Warmaster stopped receiving shelf retail support 6 months after release.
Weird, anyone with access to lexicanum, or wikipedia, or who actually played the game knows that it received 2 editions, multiple expansion books, and 3 official spinoff games (2 historicals, 1 lord of the rings) over the period of a decade. Officially, it had more support than Battlefleet Gothic did. But okay, "6 months". *eyeroll*
Weird, anyone with access to lexicanum, or wikipedia, or could read my damn post could see it was pulled FROM RETAIL after 6 months. It did so well that Inquisitor got new releases on shelves longer. I was going to say was ON shelves longer, but the fact that I was able to walk into Castle Comics and Cards in Lafayette, IN and find Warmaster stuff from initial release STILL ON THE GODDAMN SHELVES tells me all I need to know.
You know damn well you saw the retail part of my comment, so you're either arguing in bad faith to troll or willfully misrepresenting facts to win an argument.
chaos0xomega wrote: lord_blackfang wrote:
Warmaster is so unpopular that sculpting 10mm fantasy minis is a day job for half a dozen 3D artists.
Indeed, my local group has been buying up those minis by the bucketload the last few months. Some are playing warmaster, others are playing "microhammer" or something (basically 7th ed whfb using centimeters instead of inches) with them. Locally there were a lot of people bummed that the game would be 28mm, it works so much better in 10mm and the minis are incredible (tons of detail, easy to paint, look great in rank and file, and you can actually build and play with massive armies like you imagined and were depicted in the artwork without any of the headache that comes with doing so in 28mm).
I'll address Fang in your quote. SO many people were playing it that it became a special order only thing, and I'm expected to believe it's so immensely popular despite me not being able to find a single person playing it in stores locally that it can keep a half dozen 3D artists so busy they can suppor their families with it? I'm going to go ahead and push X to doubt. Unless, of course, you guys can provide links showing where there was any measure of success from that system?
And no, special order only through Specialist/Fanatic games isn't it.
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www.classichammer.com
For 4-6th WFB, 2-5th 40k, and similar timeframe gaming
Looking for dice from the new AOS boxed set and Dark Imperium on the cheap. Let me know if you can help.
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2021/07/23 06:55:52
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Charging Wild Rider
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Gert wrote:Goose LeChance wrote:
GW ripped most of the armies to pieces, you can't build a proper WHFB army even if you wanted to. I would have started a new army or two if they sold the damn models, paying extortionist ebay prices is out of the question for many.
Weird cos I can build a whole army of what is basically the Empire, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, Skaven, Warriors of Chaos, Beastmen, Lizardmen, Chaos Daemons, Vampire Counts, or Ogre Kingdoms. On top of that Orcs & Goblins are now both fairly expansive armies of their own.
A Wood Elf army without Glade Guard and Glade Riders?
Without Spellsingers, without Wardancers, without Waywatchers, without Tree Kin, without Warhawks, without a Forest Dragon or a Great Stag?
Sure, you can perhaps proxy a few of those. Possibly use some of the remaining High/Dark Elf units to fill a few of the gaps. But let's not pretend even a reasonable proportion of the range is still available.
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2021/07/23 07:10:11
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf
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Coenus Scaldingus wrote: Gert wrote:Goose LeChance wrote:
GW ripped most of the armies to pieces, you can't build a proper WHFB army even if you wanted to. I would have started a new army or two if they sold the damn models, paying extortionist ebay prices is out of the question for many.
Weird cos I can build a whole army of what is basically the Empire, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, Skaven, Warriors of Chaos, Beastmen, Lizardmen, Chaos Daemons, Vampire Counts, or Ogre Kingdoms. On top of that Orcs & Goblins are now both fairly expansive armies of their own.
A Wood Elf army without Glade Guard and Glade Riders?
Without Spellsingers, without Wardancers, without Waywatchers, without Tree Kin, without Warhawks, without a Forest Dragon or a Great Stag?
Sure, you can perhaps proxy a few of those. Possibly use some of the remaining High/Dark Elf units to fill a few of the gaps. But let's not pretend even a reasonable proportion of the range is still available.
There's a few armies where you can still basically make them in their entirety, a few are completely gone, and the rest you can make a pretty incomplete army.
But the biggest obstacle, IMO, is the lack of a community. A WHFB is such a big investment that it's hard to start a community and undesirable to start an army without knowing if you'll ever find someone to play a game with. Then what community does exist is divided among which rules they play, some went to KoW, some went to 9th age, some went to a classic edition, some crazies even stayed with 8th.
One thing WHFB needed, especially toward the end of its life, was better scaling for playing small games to give new players a start.
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2021/07/23 08:23:14
Subject: Re:Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Using Object Source Lighting
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Sucks indeed.
Mantic reactions are a jab to GW... and made a Facebook post regarding rank and file games. Something along the lines "Why wait if you can play now?"
Would I have changed my armies if I imagined that in a few years WFB would be back?
Nope.
Would I get into AoS?
Probably yes for the skirmish feel look to it. Probably would get more minis just for that.
Now I will not get back to WFB, I dont like to be taken for ride and feels bad about AoS.
Good job GW. No more rules or books of any sort for me its all just a bad joke.
Even better since I took a pause of 40k with the DG codex....
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2021/07/23 08:36:18
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Overread wrote:[The same also happened with some of the authors for the Warhammer Kids books, who got targeted hate.
Nah, those were the chunguses that thought it's SJW-ing the settings, somehow. These groups can overlap, but aren't necessarily the same.
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2021/07/23 08:46:27
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Cronch wrote: Sabotage! wrote:With how unprofitable 8th edition was for GW (I’ve seen several sources claim it made less than 10% what 40k did), it is weird to see GW take another stab at it. I’ve seen a lot of people say it’s because TW has been popular, but 99% of the people that play it are computer gamers and won’t touch a miniatures game, much less an extremely expensive, time consuming (to get to table) game like WHFB.
Maybe they will just make new rules and bundle up some of the old models in bundles with an occasional FW release?
I am pretty interested to see what they do with it. I hope the game is more like 6th, which I greatly enjoyed, and less like 8th (which I hated).
They really think the video-game people will swarm to spend up to $1k to buy and glue plastic toy soldiers. The game will no doubt drag in all the battered housewives of WHFB because this time it won't be so bad, but I don't know how many vidya-only gamers they will capture with their pricing model.
How is this at all battered house wife like ? They burned my system, I bought nothing for AoS. They are remaking my system, so if they do it right I will support it. They say the bases are the same and the old models will be workable sounds like GW actually doing something good for me or those like me. That would be amazing but time will tell. I really don't get why you have to be so bitter sounding about this.
If they drag in video gamers, who knows. I don't think any old guard is insane enough to believe this will be perfect but if I can use my old armies and the rules feel good, I'll welcome a go with it. If it's good and fun for me I'll even buy some models to add and of course the rules. I'm pretty bitter with GW stuff but I will support a good idea or a good for me choice and for me and some of us this feels like a good idea, finally.
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2021/07/23 08:57:45
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Idk, I'm not the one crawling back to GW after they cancelled my system out of the blue and only return to it once they figured there's some money left in the grognard community. I guess some people will take that and think it's fine.
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2021/07/23 09:05:38
Subject: Re:Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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auticus wrote:chaos0xomega wrote: auticus wrote:chaos0xomega wrote:Whenever I am in a balance conversation in a forum, facebook, discord, wherever, inevitably there will always be responses that say "I dont care about balance, I just want to hang out with my friends playing what they are playing and chucking dice."
YOU LIE MISTER!
I am very active in online communities for these games, I have literally never once seen someone say that
lol hahaha. Its all over the dakka aos forum. Like... in dozens if not hundreds of places over the years. There was a subsection in one of the total warhammer facebooks I'm in now on why balance is secondary to community. The TGA forums ... again littered everywhere. Commonly stated. The Conquest discord we talked about that fairly regularly. Same thing.
Its literally everywhere. If you have never seen anyone say that community is what matters most and balance is not their primary reason they play, you are simply willfully blinding yourself to it being said.
citation needed. extraoridnary claims require extraordinary evidence.
post screenshots/links.
I've played this game before on here. I think even with you. Posting screenshots / links just gets the automatic rebuttal of "well yeah that was just ONE or TWO, its not a LOT". So I'll pass on your game. Anyone who has been around the internet reading wargaming content knows exactly what I'm talking about though. I'll sleep easy at night being ok with that.
Wise to avoid that, as I can say for sure when WHFB died the slings of AoS supporters was often and hateful to anyone who didn't appreciate the coming of the new age of AoS. I think people saying both sides won't fling the poo is being willfully ignorant to human nature in this regard.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I hate to sound mean but what gives you the right to tell someone they should just get over it and move on ? I'm sorry but people wrong me I may not live everyday in boundless rage but I don't just forget that it happened either. Some people actually spent a lot of time, money and heart in their game so it being crapped on did build some memorable hate for people and I'm sure if the same thing happened now to AoS players the cries of " Just like get over it man ! " wouldn't be met with much understanding.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gert wrote: auticus wrote:
In my community - and in communities that I have heard /anecdotally/ - but from my experience in my community - nobody is excited to play a dead game.
So yes its technically possible to play whfb. But you are likely going to be playing with yourself.
My counterpoint would be that if WHFB was so great and superior to AoS, why did people not keep it going in a meaningful way?
Why ? Because people in their mentality don't like dead things in the terms of games. Dead is bad, static is bad, growing and changing is good. WHFB was not killed because no one enjoyed it, it died because they tried to make it insanely expensive to even get started and pushed a game system to force dull, grindy games where they drained a lot of the spirit from the armies while raising costs like crazy and leaving some armies to languish so long it was insane. It was for many making love out of nothing at all.
I mean by that stance 40k must have always sucked because 7th edition was crap. If the company messes it up and people just step back, that isn't because the game itself was terrible but the current handling of it may be.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/23 09:33:47
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2021/07/23 09:32:56
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Cronch wrote:Idk, I'm not the one crawling back to GW after they cancelled my system out of the blue and only return to it once they figured there's some money left in the grognard community. I guess some people will take that and think it's fine.
This is an odd take. Buying a product you like is a commercial transaction, not a personal one. There is no 'crawling back' involved. If a company releases a product I want to buy, I'll buy it. If they stop selling that product, I stop buying it. If they start selling it again later on, and I'm still interested in buying it, I'll buy it. I'm not going to refuse to buy it now just because I couldn't buy it last month. That's cutting off my nose to spite my face.
There would certainly be a case for being hesitant about buying back in if you're concerned about long term support, and whether or not they'll just dump the game again... But it's not a character flaw to buy a relaunched product.
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2021/07/23 09:35:06
Subject: Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Thermo-Optical Hac Tao
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And I wish we’d stop comparing anything as unserious as buying models to ‘battered wives’, myself.
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2021/07/23 09:39:39
Subject: Re:Warhammer The Old World : Square bases and 28mm scale, page 103
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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AngryAngel80 wrote:
I hate to sound mean but what gives you the right to tell someone they should just get over it and move on ? I'm sorry but people wrong me I may not live everyday in boundless rage but I don't just forget that it happened either. Some people actually spent a lot of time, money and heart in their game so it being crapped on did build some memorable hate for people and I'm sure if the same thing happened now to AoS players the cries of " Just like get over it man ! " wouldn't be met with much understanding.
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I was cut up about Old World closing down as well and disliked the start of AoS. I only got into AoS once GW fixed it with 2.0 and had a huge change of attitude.
That said my point is more that its a 5 year old thing that happened. Yes many people hated it and no they don't have to love GW for it. But I think that its important that they move on from it. Commenting on it, hating GW for it still, being active in warhammer groups and hating on GW etc.... In general this not only makes them less enthusiastic about the hobby in general because they are constantly reminding themselves of the dislike; but it also creates a very negative and sometimes hostile atmosphere in the community.
To the point where you have some people hating on AoS players just because they play AoS. Or AoS players hating on Old World.
Basically its behaviour that, so long after the event, generates no net gain for anyone. What happened happened, no one really liked it (even AoS fans accept that the way GW handled it was an utter train wreck) and mistakes were made. Things have changed since then. I think even if you can't "forgive" GW its still healthier to just move on completely than hang onto the hate.
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