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I'm trying to wrap my head around what the heck Gorefather's special ability does. Am I overthinking this? Yes. Is it warranted? We'll see.


Here is my conundrum. What does that last bit mean, "and the attack sequence ends".

Lets say I put this on a chaos lord who charges, this means 5 attacks.
With slow rolling would this mean attack 1 hits > wound 1 rolls 6 > 3 mortal wounds to target unit > end attack sequence, effectively converting the ap-2 3 damage attack into 3 mortal wounds?
Or do you resolve all 5 hits first as the example turn seems to imply? So attacks 1, 2, 3, and 4 all hit > wound 1 rolls a 6, 3 mortal wounds > end attack sequence, effectively removing the 5 hit rolls at strength+2 ap-2 damage 3, converting them into 3 mortal wounds.
What happens with fast fast/group rolling? If I roll 2,3,4,5,6 for the 5 wounds, would the deal 3 mortal wounds then end the sequence, nullifying the 3 other hits?

I have no idea what GW was even trying to do here. If they wanted to convert the damage into mortal wounds, then why not word it "unmodified wound roll of 6 inflicts 3 mortal wounds instead of normal damage", something they have on a few other weapons in the game?

Posting from the CSM tactica thread:
So, the attack sequence is
Roll hit > roll wound > roll save > take damage.
If you deal 3 mortal wounds INSTEAD of damage, you change it to
Roll hit > roll wound > roll save > take mortal wounds.

Feel No Pain happens after the take damage step, where you roll for each point of damage dealt by either wounds or mortal wounds.

In addition, each attack follows the entire attack sequence, so if you roll a 6 on your first of 4 attacks, THAT SINGLE attack sequence ends and you deal 3 mortal wounds, and then you perform the attack sequence for the next 3.

if fast rolling there is no "order" that you rolled anyways, so you would choose which order to fully resolve the sequence. Just resolve the 6 last...

StarHunter25 wrote:
I'm trying to wrap my head around what the heck Gorefather's special ability does. Am I overthinking this? Yes. Is it warranted? We'll see.

Spoiler:

Here is my conundrum. What does that last bit mean, "and the attack sequence ends".

Lets say I put this on a chaos lord who charges, this means 5 attacks.
With slow rolling would this mean attack 1 hits > wound 1 rolls 6 > 3 mortal wounds to target unit > end attack sequence, effectively converting the ap-2 3 damage attack into 3 mortal wounds?
Or do you resolve all 5 hits first as the example turn seems to imply? So attacks 1, 2, 3, and 4 all hit > wound 1 rolls a 6, 3 mortal wounds > end attack sequence, effectively removing the 5 hit rolls at strength+2 ap-2 damage 3, converting them into 3 mortal wounds.
What happens with fast fast/group rolling? If I roll 2,3,4,5,6 for the 5 wounds, would the deal 3 mortal wounds then end the sequence, nullifying the 3 other hits?

I have no idea what GW was even trying to do here. If they wanted to convert the damage into mortal wounds, then why not word it "unmodified wound roll of 6 inflicts 3 mortal wounds instead of normal damage", something they have on a few other weapons in the game?

It means you only get the mortal wounds instead of the normal damage.

Remember that attacks are made one at a time.

Ok, even more trouble.
Unmodified wound roll of 6 the target unit suffers 3 mortal wounds and the attack sequence ends. If the attack sequence ends, how do you allocate the mortal wound? Inflict Damage is part of the attack sequence. Do the mortal wounds disappear? Has GW managed to write a rule that breaks before it is even released?

I'd normally agree with BCB's interpretation were not for the precedents of other abilities converting normal damage into mortal wounds. Why have such a wonky wording for it, rather than the previous and fairly clear "inflict x mortal wounds instead of normal damage" clause.

The target suffers 3MW and the attack sequence ends. It can’t end until those MW have been suffered. The syntax works fine. Apply the MW then don’t resolve normal damage. Move on to next attack.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The target suffers 3MW and the attack sequence ends. It can’t end until those MW have been suffered. The syntax works fine. Apply the MW then don’t resolve normal damage. Move on to next attack.

I agree with this, however -

There are a few (I think Eldar have one and Space Marines probably have one too) special versions of 'invulnerable saves' that allow for saves against mortal wounds where normally you don't get any save. Would the Gorefather ruling mean they don't get these special saves either, because the 'attack sequence' has ended?

Also -
Currently units still get their Feel No Pain save against normal mortal wounds, because the mortal wounds rule doesn't mention that they ignore FnP. But when does FnP come in the 'attack sequence'? Is it part of the 'attack sequence', and so Gorefather ignores it? Or does it come after, in a separate sequence?


I ask this because it's the -only- reason I can think of for the weird wording of this rule, if it's designed to be totally unstoppable including FnP and other special saves.

Niiru wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The target suffers 3MW and the attack sequence ends. It can’t end until those MW have been suffered. The syntax works fine. Apply the MW then don’t resolve normal damage. Move on to next attack.

I agree with this, however -

There are a few (I think Eldar have one and Space Marines probably have one too) special versions of 'invulnerable saves' that allow for saves against mortal wounds where normally you don't get any save. Would the Gorefather ruling mean they don't get these special saves either, because the 'attack sequence' has ended?

Also -
Currently units still get their Feel No Pain save against normal mortal wounds, because the mortal wounds rule doesn't mention that they ignore FnP. But when does FnP come in the 'attack sequence'? Is it part of the 'attack sequence', and so Gorefather ignores it? Or does it come after, in a separate sequence?


I ask this because it's the -only- reason I can think of for the weird wording of this rule, if it's designed to be totally unstoppable including FnP and other special saves.

Actually, it was written this way because of some odd interaction with Tau bodyguard mechanics (Gorefather is not the first MW thing to get this wording).

It might accidentally shut off FnP though. That I don't know the answer too.

Niiru wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
The target suffers 3MW and the attack sequence ends. It can’t end until those MW have been suffered. The syntax works fine. Apply the MW then don’t resolve normal damage. Move on to next attack.

I agree with this, however -

There are a few (I think Eldar have one and Space Marines probably have one too) special versions of 'invulnerable saves' that allow for saves against mortal wounds where normally you don't get any save. Would the Gorefather ruling mean they don't get these special saves either, because the 'attack sequence' has ended?

Also -
Currently units still get their Feel No Pain save against normal mortal wounds, because the mortal wounds rule doesn't mention that they ignore FnP. But when does FnP come in the 'attack sequence'? Is it part of the 'attack sequence', and so Gorefather ignores it? Or does it come after, in a separate sequence?


I ask this because it's the -only- reason I can think of for the weird wording of this rule, if it's designed to be totally unstoppable including FnP and other special saves.

No, because those MW-triggered “ignore” rules are part of the process of the unit “suffering” the MW. 40K is a game of interrupts to interrupted interrupts...

Dont over complicate and over think this. Always keep in mind that GWs rules team has the mind set of ten year olds. It simply means the target suffers 3MW when you roll an unmodified roll of 6. The target gets to ignore those, if it has a FNP ability. As someone already said, it's written this way to prevent shield drones to intercept those 3MW.