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davidgr33n wrote: Given there are only 5 turns now, and realistically most of our CP will be spent on turns 2-4, how many CP would you recommend to start with, and I mean how many after spending on relics / tales / traits.
Ideally? 25-30. In reality, no less than 8 counting the +1 for turn 1.
For me, if I want to outflank something, that takes the place of 2 Tales. If I want an additional patrol, the extra warlord trait and the weakest of whichever of the 3-4 relics I usually have goes.
One thing for br is imagifier is less needed. Differenc between s7 and s6 repentia isn't that big. Needing to skim points one thing i'm looking at. Br elements tend to be 1 off assets so 1 phase they get bonus. Oh and coherncy change makes harder to be in range as well
MacPhail wrote: Yep, this is exactly the conversation I want to be having.
So, 2-3 CP is the cost to diversify Orders in a list of this size. I could actually do a Valorous Heart Patrol more easily, with 2 Exos, 2 Dominions, Imagifier/Preacher, and a BSS to screen the aura characters. Bloody Rose kind of needs 3 Elites (Celestians, Imagifier, Zephyrim) to capitalize on the Order Convictions, plus a bunch of bodies to benefit from the buffs. Does the Warlord need to come from the largest detachment in this edition? Obviously running a single Order maximizes CP for other things, so I really need to justify two. In my mind, VH makes the big guns and objective campers more resilient, while BR gives me a tool to try to sweep an area of the board to establish control.
As for other pregame CP expenditures, they are getting harder to justify.
~ Open the Reliquaries (1 CP)... I feel like bringing Beneficence and the Book of St. Lucius in this list are worth the CP.
~ Heroine in the Making (1 CP)... I like the Imagifier playing an outsized role with the 9" aura of ignore AP-2 / +1 SoF serves the mechanized core of the list.
~ Venerated Saint (1 CP)... this one is harder to justify. I like +1S and ignore AP-1 on the Bloody Rose blob, but maybe the Strength buff is enough on them.
In a double Battalion, I've gone from 12 down to 6, plus 1 per turn as the game goes on. In my mind that's...
~ 1 or 2 uses of Blessed Bolts and Deadly Descent as circumstances dictate.
~ 2 uses of Tear Them Down on Bloody Rose melee units.
~ 1 CP for Devastating Refrain (which I used to use every turn, but won't so much now).
~ 1 or 2 CP for Divine Intervention or Martyred, whichever makes sense.
~ 1 or 2 for Purity of Faith, Blind Faith, Holy Rage, Embodied Prophecy... more circumstantially useful.
Plus all the new Universal Stratagems, which I haven't really considered. But hey, we don't need to save one for Celestine anymore!
So, I don't feel like I've blown all my CP pre-game, but I've definitely limited my options for stratagems. The question is whether dropping Venerated Saint and switching to a Patrol to put 2 CP back in the bucket is worth it. Similarly, is giving up 2-3 to bring the Hammer and Anvil combo of VH/BR a worthy investment... I think it is, or maybe I just want it to be.
I would argue that Book is both creating too good of a target of opportunity and operating only as insulation against mistakes in the movement phase. We have so few CP now that any of the relics/WTs/etc that are meant to make up for mistakes are no longer worth it. I also think that it's probably more efficient to bring 2 imagifiers now than it is to spend a CP on 2 tales, but time will tell.
The +1 SoF from the warlord trait is less valuable than it was before due to a bunch of factors, most noteably the big bump baseline bodies got vs special weapons and the new terrain rules. I wasn't a huge fan of it before, I probably won't use it at all now.
My CP expenditures on lists so far all look like: 1CP for Extra relic (beneficence if I'm bringing BR, Surplice if not, primary relic is usually litanies) 2CP for a patrol, 1-2CP for reserves.
Not sure but what I'll actually build towards a VH Brigade, but then again a Battalion might be sufficient as I'm not figuring on bringing more than 3 of any particular slot anyways. Battalion has less troop tax so I can use more points on fun toys, or even sacrifice a couple of CP to bring a BR patrol if needed.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 25 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You need your bumps felt. With a patented, Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000.
The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
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I think im looking at
2cp second detachment
2cp extra relic
1 cp heroin in the making
1cp venerated saint
2 cp reserves
0-1 random sacred rites (double means a reroll start of game)
Leaving 3-4 to start the game
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/15 01:15:59
U02dah4 wrote: I think im looking at
2cp second detachment
2cp extra relic
1 cp heroin in the making
1cp venerated saint
2 cp reserves
0-1 random sacred rites (double means a reroll start of game)
Leaving 3-4 to start the game
Sucks considering for all that I used to START with 11 or 12 CP every game: I would have double WL Traits, 4 Relics and double Tales.
Im looking at trying to fit Death cults back into my list. I play super casually garage hammer and death cults, Callidus assassin and an inquisitor has been a part of my army since the Witchhunter days. with the recent changes to agents of the Imperium (i dont own the books i boycotted them after phoenix rising) im looking at either running 2 detachments or breaking my army traits which doesnt sound like a good option.. I was really hoping execution force would let me take an assassin detachment and get refunded but nope...
but with the point changes, death cults seem like they could be worth using again even after the asinine change to 6 unit size cap out of nowhere, as they are now the cheapest of the 3 Ministorum units.
Im struggling with the point increase on seraphim and zephyrim as seraphim have been my favorite unit in 40k for a long time and iv always ran 2 or 3 max sized squads (not as melta suicide squads) as i never really needed them to work that way, but between them and the zephyim increase im losing nearly an entire squad of sisters out of my list if i want to keep them.
"If you are forced to use your trump card, then the battle is already lost"
U02dah4 wrote: I think im looking at
2cp second detachment
2cp extra relic
1 cp heroin in the making
1cp venerated saint
2 cp reserves
0-1 random sacred rites (double means a reroll start of game)
Leaving 3-4 to start the game
Sucks considering for all that I used to START with 11 or 12 CP every game: I would have double WL Traits, 4 Relics and double Tales.
This is one I fear we're going to have take as "good for the game" while resenting its impact. I often played against Death Guard or Thousand Sons armies who played every game with 6 to my 12. It definitely had an impact when I could spam stratagems left and right knowing that a few of them had to come good while my opponent carefully gambled on a few select strats and then rode out the last three turns with nothing up his sleeve. I do think this will be better overall (and here's hoping the faction-specific strats are balanced to some degree) now that having and playing stratagems means the same thing for all armies.
MacPhail wrote: Yep, this is exactly the conversation I want to be having.
I would argue that Book is both creating too good of a target of opportunity and operating only as insulation against mistakes in the movement phase. We have so few CP now that any of the relics/WTs/etc that are meant to make up for mistakes are no longer worth it. I also think that it's probably more efficient to bring 2 imagifiers now than it is to spend a CP on 2 tales, but time will tell.
The +1 SoF from the warlord trait is less valuable than it was before due to a bunch of factors, most noteably the big bump baseline bodies got vs special weapons and the new terrain rules. I wasn't a huge fan of it before, I probably won't use it at all now.
My CP expenditures on lists so far all look like: 1CP for Extra relic (beneficence if I'm bringing BR, Surplice if not, primary relic is usually litanies) 2CP for a patrol, 1-2CP for reserves.
I could spring for a unit of Celestians to support the VH Imagifier, but there so much better as BR. It'll be interseting to see how the new character targeting rules work in practice and whether dedicated aura characters like that are much more vulnerable.
I don't fully grok your take on SoF, special weapons, and terrain if you'd be willing to unpack that a bit. That used to be such a strong go-to warlord trait.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/15 03:35:15
U02dah4 wrote: I think im looking at
2cp second detachment
2cp extra relic
1 cp heroin in the making
1cp venerated saint
2 cp reserves
0-1 random sacred rites (double means a reroll start of game)
Leaving 3-4 to start the game
Sucks considering for all that I used to START with 11 or 12 CP every game: I would have double WL Traits, 4 Relics and double Tales.
This is one I fear we're going to have take as "good for the game" while resenting its impact. I often played against Death Guard or Thousand Sons armies who played every game with 6 to my 12. It definitely had an impact when I could spam stratagems left and right knowing that a few of them had to come good while my opponent carefully gambled on a few select strats and then rode out the last three turns with nothing up his sleeve. I do think this will be better overall (and here's hoping the faction-specific strats are balanced to some degree) now that having and playing stratagems means the same thing for all armies.
MacPhail wrote: Yep, this is exactly the conversation I want to be having.
I would argue that Book is both creating too good of a target of opportunity and operating only as insulation against mistakes in the movement phase. We have so few CP now that any of the relics/WTs/etc that are meant to make up for mistakes are no longer worth it. I also think that it's probably more efficient to bring 2 imagifiers now than it is to spend a CP on 2 tales, but time will tell.
The +1 SoF from the warlord trait is less valuable than it was before due to a bunch of factors, most noteably the big bump baseline bodies got vs special weapons and the new terrain rules. I wasn't a huge fan of it before, I probably won't use it at all now.
My CP expenditures on lists so far all look like: 1CP for Extra relic (beneficence if I'm bringing BR, Surplice if not, primary relic is usually litanies) 2CP for a patrol, 1-2CP for reserves.
I could spring for a unit of Celestians to support the VH Imagifier, but there so much better as BR. It'll be interseting to see how the new character targeting rules work in practice and whether dedicated aura characters like that are much more vulnerable.
I don't fully grok your take on SoF, special weapons, and terrain if you'd be willing to unpack that a bit. That used to be such a strong go-to warlord trait.
The terrain rules make all defensive buffs less valuable (except VH immune to rend due to it stacking with cover) simply because you should be getting hit less (unless you played ITC, but even then you have dense now which will help a lot of armies with no native -1.) Basically you don't need to rely on SoF to eat as much fire as before.
The SoF bubble I've always found sort of worthless unless you were running a ton of big squads. VH is immune to AP up to -2 already and there are very few weapons in the game that aren't being massively wasted being AP-3 and shooting at battle sisters. There are a few exceptions, necron bikes and dev doctrine TFC, but the vast majority of what kills my battle sisters is bolter fire. ALso I tend to bring less bodies than a lot of other sisters players do. My 8th lists were all built around min squads of battle sisters with just stormbolters. I never saw meaningful value out of the 4++ once it became infantry only and very quickly stopped spending CP on it. Argent shroud lists will still take it every time, but they've got 100+ models scooting around the board.
Sisters bodies went universally up, sisters special weapons went majority down. That makes weapons more valuable relative to bodies. Take a battle sister versus a melta gun. 9pts VS 14pts is now 11pts vs 10pts that's a 6 point swing in the melta gun's favor. Same with seraphim and inferno pistols 11 vs 7 to 15 vs 5. This means that we should be shifting our investment away from relatively more expensive bodies into relatively cheaper guns. A knock-on effect of this is that you have less bodies on the table to benefit from the 4++ SoF, which means that the SoF is now less valuable.
MacPhail wrote: I don't fully grok your take on SoF, special weapons, and terrain if you'd be willing to unpack that a bit. That used to be such a strong go-to warlord trait.
The terrain rules make all defensive buffs less valuable (except VH immune to rend due to it stacking with cover) simply because you should be getting hit less (unless you played ITC, but even then you have dense now which will help a lot of armies with no native -1.) Basically you don't need to rely on SoF to eat as much fire as before.
The SoF bubble I've always found sort of worthless unless you were running a ton of big squads. VH is immune to AP up to -2 already and there are very few weapons in the game that aren't being massively wasted being AP-3 and shooting at battle sisters. There are a few exceptions, necron bikes and dev doctrine TFC, but the vast majority of what kills my battle sisters is bolter fire. ALso I tend to bring less bodies than a lot of other sisters players do. My 8th lists were all built around min squads of battle sisters with just stormbolters. I never saw meaningful value out of the 4++ once it became infantry only and very quickly stopped spending CP on it. Argent shroud lists will still take it every time, but they've got 100+ models scooting around the board.
Sisters bodies went universally up, sisters special weapons went majority down. That makes weapons more valuable relative to bodies. Take a battle sister versus a melta gun. 9pts VS 14pts is now 11pts vs 10pts that's a 6 point swing in the melta gun's favor. Same with seraphim and inferno pistols 11 vs 7 to 15 vs 5. This means that we should be shifting our investment away from relatively more expensive bodies into relatively cheaper guns. A knock-on effect of this is that you have less bodies on the table to benefit from the 4++ SoF, which means that the SoF is now less valuable.
I gotcha... this makes some good sense. I do play a lot against Necrons, where the boosted invuln means more, but maybe if they were only 1-in-10 opponents (it's more like 1-in-3 or 4 for me) that would have jumped out at me at some point. There's probably a late 7th edition Celestine Cathedral with Exorcists and Bullgryns hangover that keeps that WT looking shinier that it should. I assume I've got some other notions in that category... what other old standard choices are getting tossed aside? If not Indomitable Belief, are there any other WTs worth a CP, or is it just Beacon of Faith all the time?
I also get the shift in points from bodies to guns. So is expensive bodies and cheap guns a rationale for considering other types of special/heavy spam? Are melta Doms worth a look, even without scouting transports? What about heavy flamer Rets? Does anyone get flamers ever for any reason?
I think its more list dependent - i like infantry i have no exorcists and play BR not VH and yes more infantry=more value. BR have more to gain from a 4++ (i take junith in a side detatchment) as your) benefiting vs ap2 and theres a lot of that these days.
As to the book takeing it on a triple aura imagifier warlord does create a target - but a target in the centre of my lines. Typically if you can get to it your hyper mobile with a lot of shooting or 60% of my army has gone - im pretty sure i can do they same in 9th chsracter targetting but i need a few games to be clear
As to other relics smash cannoness is awesome
And i want the relic pistol on my repentia superior its a solid improvement over a couple of turns
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/15 16:31:34
MacPhail wrote: I don't fully grok your take on SoF, special weapons, and terrain if you'd be willing to unpack that a bit. That used to be such a strong go-to warlord trait.
The terrain rules make all defensive buffs less valuable (except VH immune to rend due to it stacking with cover) simply because you should be getting hit less (unless you played ITC, but even then you have dense now which will help a lot of armies with no native -1.) Basically you don't need to rely on SoF to eat as much fire as before.
The SoF bubble I've always found sort of worthless unless you were running a ton of big squads. VH is immune to AP up to -2 already and there are very few weapons in the game that aren't being massively wasted being AP-3 and shooting at battle sisters. There are a few exceptions, necron bikes and dev doctrine TFC, but the vast majority of what kills my battle sisters is bolter fire. ALso I tend to bring less bodies than a lot of other sisters players do. My 8th lists were all built around min squads of battle sisters with just stormbolters. I never saw meaningful value out of the 4++ once it became infantry only and very quickly stopped spending CP on it. Argent shroud lists will still take it every time, but they've got 100+ models scooting around the board.
Sisters bodies went universally up, sisters special weapons went majority down. That makes weapons more valuable relative to bodies. Take a battle sister versus a melta gun. 9pts VS 14pts is now 11pts vs 10pts that's a 6 point swing in the melta gun's favor. Same with seraphim and inferno pistols 11 vs 7 to 15 vs 5. This means that we should be shifting our investment away from relatively more expensive bodies into relatively cheaper guns. A knock-on effect of this is that you have less bodies on the table to benefit from the 4++ SoF, which means that the SoF is now less valuable.
I gotcha... this makes some good sense. I do play a lot against Necrons, where the boosted invuln means more, but maybe if they were only 1-in-10 opponents (it's more like 1-in-3 or 4 for me) that would have jumped out at me at some point. There's probably a late 7th edition Celestine Cathedral with Exorcists and Bullgryns hangover that keeps that WT looking shinier that it should. I assume I've got some other notions in that category... what other old standard choices are getting tossed aside? If not Indomitable Belief, are there any other WTs worth a CP, or is it just Beacon of Faith all the time?
I also get the shift in points from bodies to guns. So is expensive bodies and cheap guns a rationale for considering other types of special/heavy spam? Are melta Doms worth a look, even without scouting transports? What about heavy flamer Rets? Does anyone get flamers ever for any reason?
Melta doms are definitely worth a look (especially once eradicators eat the emergency nerf they desperately need) Scout alone is insanely powerful just for letting you get into position to grab objectives, even if they can't jump out of vehicles anymore. Heavy flamer rets COULD work, especially with them being able to take a combi-melta for relatively cheap now (Holy Trinity isn't bad if it's just a thing that happens rather than something you go out of your way for). Regular flamers are still trash and Hand Flamers are Omega LUL turbo dead. Even for seraphim. Also, kitted out Celestians might be worth considering now as an offensive tool, rather than just a chaff clearing bodyguard for bloody rose.
Also, it's not necessarily 'tossing things aside' so much as it's making really difficult choices. If you're not running 50+ footslog infantry anymore, which a lot of lists won't be, the 4++ isn't going to be as useful. Same for if you're running mostly transports (rhinos are actually seeming to be a lot better now even though immolators are utter gak). Same again for if you take advantage of outflank. You really have to look at your list and think 'how many models is this protecting? How much damage is this going to prevent? Would I rather do this than get a turn of Devastating Refrain, or a chance to get reroll wounds on grey knights with your repentia/mortifiers? Indomitable belief was a no brainer before because 1CP wasn't that big of a deal when we had every list starting at 15 and a lot of them going all the way up to 20. Now that we're realistically capped at 11 (its is HARD to build a list without at least a patrol and don't count on the +1 per turn CP to save you.)
One casualty of this is that there are only really 3 warlord traits now. Indomitable, Beacon, and the ebon chalice one should you go that route. Putting 2 CP into one Canoness with the new character rules is risky for a major army wide buff, doing it to give an already decent melee character some rerolls when the LoS rules make it much riskier for her to even be on the board is honestly just asking for it at this point.
Also, sorry about your (and I guess a lot more people's) necron opponent's. Between Tomb Blades, DDAs, and quantum shielding they're easily our worst matchup.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
U02dah4 wrote: I think its more list dependent - i like infantry i have no exorcists and play BR not VH and yes more infantry=more value. BR have more to gain from a 4++ (i take junith in a side detatchment) as your) benefiting vs ap2 and theres a lot of that these days.
As to the book takeing it on a triple aura imagifier warlord does create a target - but a target in the centre of my lines. Typically if you can get to it your hyper mobile with a lot of shooting or 60% of my army has gone - im pretty sure i can do they same in 9th chsracter targetting but i need a few games to be clear
As to other relics smash cannoness is awesome
And i want the relic pistol on my repentia superior its a solid improvement over a couple of turns
One thing to consider is that CP spent before the game is a totally blind investment. Maybe that repentia superior gets a couple of shots off, maybe she dies instantly to sniper fire, no way to know. Especially now that LoS is much harder to maintain.
But CP spent DURING the game is being invested at critical junctures every time. No one is throwing out devastating refrain against a landspeeder with 3 wounds left, but a relic pistol might just end up bouncing off of stormshields the whole game if it doesn't get a decent target.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/15 20:09:31
So I was putting together a tentative list that had a Vanguard of BR and a Battalion for VH. I'm going to give the BR Cannonness a whirl still and use the extra CP for the relics so all things considered I'd be starting with 7 CP max.
The list has 3 min squads of Sisters, but it does make me wonder if I should be bringing in another squad just to protect characters. My character count is currently at: Celestine, Cannoness x2, Hospitaller, Imagifier, and a Diaologus.
Then again I guess I could just cut the Diaologus I suppose.
Unless you block them its going to be hard to keep that many characters alive under the new character targeting rules its much easier to shoot through 1 or two squads and kill the character behind it
Hmmm yeah, that does seem to be an issue. I can jam the diaologus into a rhino with the Repentia. Though ideally if they're shooting sisters to get at a character then the my exorcists and melee threats can get in?
The List btw. It comes up to 1999 just pretend I remembered ti put a diaologus in there.
Sgt.Sunshine wrote: Hmmm yeah, that does seem to be an issue. I can jam the diaologus into a rhino with the Repentia. Though ideally if they're shooting sisters to get at a character then the my exorcists and melee threats can get in?
The List btw. It comes up to 1999 just pretend I remembered ti put a diaologus in there.
Having two Zephyrim Pendants is odd. At least one of them should be guaranteeing a charge out of deepstrike, but then again there's a lot of melee in this list so it might be worth.
Seraphim should move over to the Vanguard so they can get the extra AP on their pistols and extra melee. VH isn't going to do much for min squads of seraphim.
Personally, I would drop the missionary(already have a preacher) and hospitaller(doesn't really have anything to heal. This is a very glass cannon build) for a Repentia Superior and an Imagifier( you can make up the extra points in stormbolters. At 3pts they're more of a luxury than something we take every time.). Either that or use those points to shift the list around so it's a battalion and a patrol.
Sgt.Sunshine wrote: Hmmm yeah, that does seem to be an issue. I can jam the diaologus into a rhino with the Repentia. Though ideally if they're shooting sisters to get at a character then the my exorcists and melee threats can get in?
The List btw. It comes up to 1999 just pretend I remembered ti put a diaologus in there.
Having two Zephyrim Pendants is odd. At least one of them should be guaranteeing a charge out of deepstrike, but then again there's a lot of melee in this list so it might be worth.
Seraphim should move over to the Vanguard so they can get the extra AP on their pistols and extra melee. VH isn't going to do much for min squads of seraphim.
Personally, I would drop the missionary(already have a preacher) and hospitaller(doesn't really have anything to heal. This is a very glass cannon build) for a Repentia Superior and an Imagifier( you can make up the extra points in stormbolters. At 3pts they're more of a luxury than something we take every time.). Either that or use those points to shift the list around so it's a battalion and a patrol.
The two Pennants are pretty much just for redundancy due to how much Melee I have. It's why I wanted to have a missionary and preacher as well to ensure that I can get the benefit where I need it, assuming the other one is probably going to die when I use it the first time. I agree on the hospitaller. I kinda wanted it just to heal wounds off things as opposed to bring dudes back, but I can't super justify it the more I look at it now. A second Imagifier is probably a good idea, but I'm not super sold on the Repentia Superior.
Also, totally agree on stormbolters. I was just using them to fill points since adding anything else was just super awkward for me. Not exactly sure how I'd shift the list around to make a battalion or patrol. There are just a lot of elites I want to have in the BR and I don't really want their standard Sister Squads I think.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hmmm I'm actually half tempted to fit in a fourth squad BSS if I drop a preacher/missionary for objective purposes/ablative wounds.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/16 03:26:21
Is there still a rule that says deep strike has to wait until Turn 2? I know that's true for strategic reserves, but the new "Reinforcements" section of the rules refers us to the datasheet, which says "at the end of one of your movement phases." Did I miss that Seraphim can drop Turn 1? Or have they been doing this since whenever? Am I bungling the rules again?
It's part of the Eternal War mission pack rules now (point 10. Declaring Reserves and Transports, final paragraph) So yeah, no dropping Seraphim in on turn 1. They're also still destoyed if they're still in reserve after turn 3. This also applies to units that started the game in Strategic Reserves.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/16 06:40:04
Speaking of reserves do you have to decide those during list building before seeing opponents army like relics etc now or changen you at least those alter based on opponents?
You decide on what is in reserve before deployment after choosing your deployment zone, but before deploying armies. There's no need to spend CP as part of list building to use Strategic Reserves.
Speaking of pregame CP expenditure, it should be noted that you don't need to declare use of the Venerated Saint stratagem as part of list building as it isn't used before the start of the game. I've seen some confusion about that online (not necessarily here on Dakka) and just thought I'd point that out. The rules only call out start of game upgrade stratagems as a part of roster building.
So if you take two Imagifiers but decide you really, really need one to have a double aura, you can do so reactively.
Venerated Saint is on the chopping block for me. I had been running a Valorous Heart Imagifier with Heroine in the Making, Indomitable Belief, Book of St. Lucius, and Tale of the Stoic for a +1 SoF and ignore AP-2 out to 9", plus a Bloody Rose Imagifier with Venerated Saint, Tale of the Stoic, and Tale of the Warrior. My logic was that there's plenty of AP-1 to be encountered in melee (especially with Astartes chainswords) where BR wants to be anyway, and that they're not quite such a good target for small arms fire (when my opponents figure out the defensive difference between VH and BR, they become bullet magnets).
I'm in the position of deciding to carry on with 2CP for the VH Imagifier, or 1CP for the BR Imagifier, or both, or neither.
Sgt.Sunshine wrote: For double imagifiers, are people just taking one for stoic and the other for +1 STR?
Only in bloody rose and only if you're expecting to go up against just a ton of AP-1. For valorous heart it's about redundancy and flexibility in the Stoic buff.
Slapped this together more because I wanted to. Stern and Kyganil work with Fallen because Unexpected Allies, as written, only says they don't eat a slot if there are no Fallen in your army. Nothing in the rule says you can't bring them if you have Fallen, and they have a battlefield role of HQ. The Inquisitor works, and is still slotless, because Stern & Kyganil aren't Agents of the Imperium and the detachment isn't a Fallen detachment
Thoughts? I'm least wed to the Inquisitor and more than willing to dump one or both of the strats used on it if it stays. Celestine, Stern, and the Fallen aren't leaving the list but I'm willing to modify the three Fallen units of you think I can do better than 15 combi-plasma
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/16 18:00:20
Sgt.Sunshine wrote: For double imagifiers, are people just taking one for stoic and the other for +1 STR?
Only in bloody rose and only if you're expecting to go up against just a ton of AP-1. For valorous heart it's about redundancy and flexibility in the Stoic buff.
Hm yeah, I get that. It seems handy to keep one up front with the squads and another near the Exorcists
Taikishi wrote: Slapped this together more because I wanted to. Stern and Kyganil work with Fallen because Unexpected Allies, as written, only says they don't eat a slot if there are no Fallen in your army. Nothing in the rule says you can't bring them if you have Fallen, and they have a battlefield role of HQ. The Inquisitor works, and is still slotless, because Stern & Kyganil aren't Agents of the Imperium and the detachment isn't a Fallen detachment
Thoughts? I'm least wed to the Inquisitor and more than willing to dump one or both of the strats used on it if it stays. Celestine, Stern, and the Fallen aren't leaving the list but I'm willing to modify the three Fallen units of you think I can do better than 15 combi-plasma
I think as a fun experiment in creating a totally unique army that people won't have seen before, it's great.
btw what are people's thoughts are on Ephrael Stern and Friend?
They didn't get a huge point increase in the shift over in editions, from what I saw. We get to use some strategies on her, she hands out MWs fairly consistently, and doesn't seem bad in melee.
~16000 Astra Militarum: 
~1200 | Imperial Knights: 
~2300 | Leagues of Votann: 
~1300 | Tyranids: 
~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: 
~5000 | Kruleboyz: 
~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: 
~700
