Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
The inclusion of the triumph appears to be based on the principle that the sisters always roll 6 for their miracle dice - at least that is what every reference to the mechanic in the article is suggesting.
I'm guessing the target playstyle here is to take objectives early with dominions, then charge the opponents infiltrators/countercharge with mortifiers and repentia with a celestian/character blob advancing to clear the second wave and the small sisters squads just there to pick up the objectives late on - hence the emphasis on dealing with things like 'fights last' effects that will mulch the initial charge.
Not much redundancy - there is precisely one shot at hitting a backfield unit with a combined seraphim drop/reserves outflank and the character buffs/units are going to have to pick a direction and stick with it.
450 points tied up in three named characters that are supporting around 400 more points of sisters and six meltaguns. I guess my first though would be whether or not 450 points of more sisters would be more useful than the localised 4++ and the triumph who can still be shot off the board freely - it's just the building cover that it benefits from.
edit: it is curiously similar to the goonhammer sisters article.
Them and nick nanavati at the moment all seem to agree that the Triumph is the bees knees but I can't help but feel like they're letting their natural tournament player instinct towards eliminating RNG overtake their senses here.
The Triumph is a 195pt model that doesn't do anything that is easily replacable by much cheaper models that do all of the same things but offer other bonuses besides.
You could take a Sanctum, a Dialogus, and 18 simulacrums for the cost of the Triumph and end up with all the same important buffs only with much more flexible options to utilize them and a big F-in piece of cover. Or you could just pump those 195pts into units that actually accomplishes something.
Also, any list that takes the geminae superia is automatically trash.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/30 19:50:09
I plan on a pure infantry force (Bloody Rose) with the exception of 3 Mortifiers for “While We Stand We Fight”, so how many meltas (of all flavors) should a 2000 point force bring? Would 25 be enough? 30?
Just wondering thoughts on this.
The inclusion of the triumph appears to be based on the principle that the sisters always roll 6 for their miracle dice - at least that is what every reference to the mechanic in the article is suggesting.
I'm guessing the target playstyle here is to take objectives early with dominions, then charge the opponents infiltrators/countercharge with mortifiers and repentia with a celestian/character blob advancing to clear the second wave and the small sisters squads just there to pick up the objectives late on - hence the emphasis on dealing with things like 'fights last' effects that will mulch the initial charge.
Not much redundancy - there is precisely one shot at hitting a backfield unit with a combined seraphim drop/reserves outflank and the character buffs/units are going to have to pick a direction and stick with it.
450 points tied up in three named characters that are supporting around 400 more points of sisters and six meltaguns. I guess my first though would be whether or not 450 points of more sisters would be more useful than the localised 4++ and the triumph who can still be shot off the board freely - it's just the building cover that it benefits from.
edit: it is curiously similar to the goonhammer sisters article.
Them and nick nanavati at the moment all seem to agree that the Triumph is the bees knees but I can't help but feel like they're letting their natural tournament player instinct towards eliminating RNG overtake their senses here.
The Triumph is a 195pt model that doesn't do anything that is easily replacable by much cheaper models that do all of the same things but offer other bonuses besides.
You could take a Sanctum, a Dialogus, and 18 simulacrums for the cost of the Triumph and end up with all the same important buffs only with much more flexible options to utilize them and a big F-in piece of cover. Or you could just pump those 195pts into units that actually accomplishes something.
Also, any list that takes the geminae superia is automatically trash.
I can't see both named together myself. Triumph does offer a few fantastic buffs that can't be replicated anywhere:
+1TH 6" bubble. We have no bonuses this way on the table normally at all
+1 Miracle dice per TURN, so that is +2dice per battle round, including during opponents T1 which allows you potential to have 2 decent dice (3 w/ Sanctum) on board for early saves if you go 2nd
And at 14 attacks at top profile, she isn't exactly a pushover in melee against masses.
However, i think the bad outweighs those for sure, even outside of point usage.
The FAQ allows her to utilize terrain like a regular infantry, so obscuring and dense still work for her, however the fact LOS doesn't help her at all is hot garbage for a T3 200 pt model though. Most bubbles like her can effectively hide in the units they want to keep buffed. She can't, and her bubble isn't that large...She is also slow which makes it a challenge to keep anyone IN her bubble. She doesn't provide the SoF buff like C so you'd have to keep both characters together to keep your bubble together. And at only 6 bolt pistol shots, she doesn't cover any ranged needs for 195 pts like you want as an aura bubble at that price. I think she thrives in a defensive bubble positioned to allow your counter punch melee to hit that much better, but that doesn't work in 9th as well as they argue. And that article also states that he is still buying simulacrums to use the dice, which is just more 5 pts here and there that adds up. I usually have some unused miracle dice already, or 2s and 3s on the sideboard. What A.T. wrote is right in that the article makes it sound like we always have amazing dice to use every go. Even with Litanies, just isn't true.
Regarding Geminae, they also made a mistake on points. Geminae are now in the MNF under NAMED with two **, so their power swords are built into points at the 18 listed. so they are actually 10% cheaper in new points than in 8th. AOW points costed one at 23. I still fully agree with ERJAK that they are garbage given that they count for Assassinate each time they die if C rezes them (how its been ruled locally, I'd assume how it would be in official play). 36 pts is better for the pair, but the fact you heal THEN rez on 4W that give secondary points easily is just asking to lose games.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/30 21:11:22
U02dah4 wrote: Your argument would make sense if you hadn't sacrificed 14 wounds and any damage output
3BS squads come in at 165 so what you getting for 30pts extra
A ton of buffs 3 extra W and some passable CC
I'm not saying its ridiculously good but its certainly a consideration
My main problem with it - is that its too tall now lots of terrain isn't gf LoS blocking
Here's my thought on the Triumph:
It's got more than 9 wounds, it's an infantry character, it's more points than most tanks, it's got a profile of infantry. That alone makes me not want it. It will die in literally a heartbeat, even considering that it has a special rule to hide behind obscuring terrain.
2 characters with 8 wounds between them and an indestructible building will be almost infinitely more resilient than the Triumph of Saint Katherine because they can only be shot by snipers, but it can be shot by everything and it's dog that can draw range to it.
As for what I'm thinking of doing for 9e:
My past three games of 9e have instructed me that troops are critical, and more importantly, keeping them alive and on objectives is critical at pretty much at the expense of anything else up to and including destruction of enemy assets. In addition, being aggressive early is even more critical than before.
So, in light of that, I'm thinking:
Battalion: Valorous Heart
HQ Canoness
Celestine
Troops
BSSx6
Elites
Imagifier
Preacher
Zephyrim
Fast Attack
Seraphim
Heavy Support
Exorcist
Exorcist
Penitent Engines x2
Dedicated Transport
Immolator x4
Theory:
The 2 dismount squads will be for holding the rear and performing actions on objectives near the rear, lurking out of LoS if possible.
The 4 mounted squads will not plan on dismounting until forcibly dismounted by the destruction of their vehicle. Thus, they won't die until someone breaks open their tank, at which point they pop out and are still holding onto objectives hopefully at least until next turn. Maybe I'll give them meltaguns, I'm still not decided on that front.
The 4 tanks themselves will push up onto objectives and try to drive the enemy back from them with their flame guns. They'll eventually die, but when they do, troops will get out to continue holding the objectives.
Penitent Engines will basically be like the Immolators, but more dangerous in melee, and more aggressive to try to control the center with close quarters assets that are just a little bit too beefy for your average infantry unit to service efficiently. I'm debating between them and Mortifiers, but right now I'm on Penitent Engines because they're 10 points cheaper, fight in melee a little better, are a little tougher, I don't really care about the heavy bolters since I already have enough thanks to the invisible ones on all my tanks now, and most critically, I think 14"+3d6" is still enough threat range to engage most things on the board on turn 2. If the Pengines wind up being too slow, I'll switch them for Mortifiers.
The Exorcists will do what they do, and break tanks open.
The Celestine+Seraphim+Zephyrim block will provide an essentially self-contained strike force that can service tanks courtesy of the Seraphim and service any stripe of infantry courtesy of the Zephyrim & Celestine, is moderately hard to kill thanks to having a 4++, and can move 12" to take advantage of wherever the enemy is weakest or provide spot firefighting.
There's space saved for a Palantine when she becomes available.
I'm also debating breaking off the Seraphim, Zephyrim, Pengines, and Celestine into a Patrol detachment, because while it will cost me CP, it will allow them to have a different doctrine [and also open up space for the third Exorcist]. I also kind of want the third exorcist, because if I can break open an extra APC on the first turn in shooting I'm in a position to kill off the passengers with my flame guns, which will put me ahead in the troops game. And if they go for the Exorcists, that's one more they have to kill to suppress that incoming fire, and they're leaving my own troop transports alone while theirs and their troops are dying.
This isn't really that groundbreaking. Everyone else I've talked to is also now working along similar lines after our first round of games and the post-game debriefs if they can right now, with cheap-troop loaded Falcons, Razorbacks, Repulsors, Impulsors, Chimera, and such proliferating heavily.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/07/30 21:30:20
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
davidgr33n wrote: I plan on a pure infantry force (Bloody Rose) with the exception of 3 Mortifiers for “While We Stand We Fight”, so how many meltas (of all flavors) should a 2000 point force bring? Would 25 be enough? 30?
Just wondering thoughts on this.
You really have no model more expensive than 60? Those are ratker bad targets for wmswf secondary though. Durability of wet paper so either you hide somewhere never doing any damage or it's 0 vp to you
davidgr33n wrote: I plan on a pure infantry force (Bloody Rose) with the exception of 3 Mortifiers for “While We Stand We Fight”, so how many meltas (of all flavors) should a 2000 point force bring? Would 25 be enough? 30?
Just wondering thoughts on this.
You really have no model more expensive than 60? Those are ratker bad targets for wmswf secondary though. Durability of wet paper so either you hide somewhere never doing any damage or it's 0 vp to you
They’re my 3 most expensive models, so 1 CP puts them in reserve all game long or at a pinch I bring them on together toward endgame somewhere out of reach and use their Hvy Bolters. 15 VP for 180 pts and still have utility in keeping the opponent guessing or if I do need them.
My other most expensive model is a Canoness at 55, but I can drop her plasma pistol, make her 50, and bring 3 Pen Engines to do the same thing. They don’t have the flexibility of Mortifiers but keeping them in reserve basically nets me 15 VP for 10 pts per VP.
U02dah4 wrote: Your argument would make sense if you hadn't sacrificed 14 wounds and any damage output
3BS squads come in at 165 so what you getting for 30pts extra
A ton of buffs 3 extra W and some passable CC
I'm not saying its ridiculously good but its certainly a consideration
My main problem with it - is that its too tall now lots of terrain isn't gf LoS blocking
It doesn't really have damage output. If you take it, you're not trying to charge anything that doesn't deepstrike basically on top of it because you'll just get it blasted off the table in transit and the wounds are irrelevant when you consider that the other options can't be deliberately targeted out(except the dialogus by sniper) and that the triumph at T3 3+ will die to spare shots extremely quickly. That's why it's a 195pt unit that doesn't do anything. The moment it tries to move up the table or contribute to damage, it'll eat enough fire to shut off the buffs.
Keep in mind that the triumph loses THREE of its buffs after 9 wounds and 4 of them once it gets bracketed again. That means you'll be losing the dialogus ability, sanctum ability, or simulacrum ability, alongside the two other ones no one remembers or gives a crap about.
It's not terrible, I just disagree with Goonhammer that it'll be 'ubiquitous'. It's only really worth it's cost in 2 types of lists: 1 is lists with a bunch of simulacrums and at least 2 exorcists that can take advantage of the huge number of dice you'll generate with it+beacon+whatever else, and 9 mortifier rush lists. Other lists, especially ones that don't run a significant amount of chargers or D6 damage units with simulacrums, are likely better off taking a dialogus and a battle sanctum and just calling it a day.
davidgr33n wrote: I plan on a pure infantry force (Bloody Rose) with the exception of 3 Mortifiers for “While We Stand We Fight”, so how many meltas (of all flavors) should a 2000 point force bring? Would 25 be enough? 30?
Just wondering thoughts on this.
You really have no model more expensive than 60? Those are ratker bad targets for wmswf secondary though. Durability of wet paper so either you hide somewhere never doing any damage or it's 0 vp to you
They’re my 3 most expensive models, so 1 CP puts them in reserve all game long or at a pinch I bring them on together toward endgame somewhere out of reach and use their Hvy Bolters. 15 VP for 180 pts and still have utility in keeping the opponent guessing or if I do need them.
My other most expensive model is a Canoness at 55, but I can drop her plasma pistol, make her 50, and bring 3 Pen Engines to do the same thing. They don’t have the flexibility of Mortifiers but keeping them in reserve basically nets me 15 VP for 10 pts per VP.
You have to bring them in by turn 3 or they're automatically destroyed if you're using normal matched play rules..
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/30 22:30:44
U02dah4 wrote: Your argument would make sense if you hadn't sacrificed 14 wounds and any damage output
3BS squads come in at 165 so what you getting for 30pts extra
A ton of buffs 3 extra W and some passable CC
I'm not saying its ridiculously good but its certainly a consideration
My main problem with it - is that its too tall now lots of terrain isn't gf LoS blocking
Here's my thought on the Triumph:
It's got more than 9 wounds, it's an infantry character, it's more points than most tanks, it's got a profile of infantry. That alone makes me not want it. It will die in literally a heartbeat, even considering that it has a special rule to hide behind obscuring terrain.
2 characters with 8 wounds between them and an indestructible building will be almost infinitely more resilient than the Triumph of Saint Katherine because they can only be shot by snipers, but it can be shot by everything and it's dog that can draw range to it.
As for what I'm thinking of doing for 9e:
My past three games of 9e have instructed me that troops are critical, and more importantly, keeping them alive and on objectives is critical at pretty much at the expense of anything else up to and including destruction of enemy assets. In addition, being aggressive early is even more critical than before.
So, in light of that, I'm thinking:
Battalion: Valorous Heart
HQ Canoness
Celestine
Troops
BSSx6
Elites
Imagifier
Preacher
Zephyrim
Fast Attack
Seraphim
Heavy Support
Exorcist
Exorcist
Penitent Engines x2
Dedicated Transport
Immolator x4
Theory:
The 2 dismount squads will be for holding the rear and performing actions on objectives near the rear, lurking out of LoS if possible.
The 4 mounted squads will not plan on dismounting until forcibly dismounted by the destruction of their vehicle. Thus, they won't die until someone breaks open their tank, at which point they pop out and are still holding onto objectives hopefully at least until next turn. Maybe I'll give them meltaguns, I'm still not decided on that front.
The 4 tanks themselves will push up onto objectives and try to drive the enemy back from them with their flame guns. They'll eventually die, but when they do, troops will get out to continue holding the objectives.
Penitent Engines will basically be like the Immolators, but more dangerous in melee, and more aggressive to try to control the center with close quarters assets that are just a little bit too beefy for your average infantry unit to service efficiently. I'm debating between them and Mortifiers, but right now I'm on Penitent Engines because they're 10 points cheaper, fight in melee a little better, are a little tougher, I don't really care about the heavy bolters since I already have enough thanks to the invisible ones on all my tanks now, and most critically, I think 14"+3d6" is still enough threat range to engage most things on the board on turn 2. If the Pengines wind up being too slow, I'll switch them for Mortifiers.
The Exorcists will do what they do, and break tanks open.
The Celestine+Seraphim+Zephyrim block will provide an essentially self-contained strike force that can service tanks courtesy of the Seraphim and service any stripe of infantry courtesy of the Zephyrim & Celestine, is moderately hard to kill thanks to having a 4++, and can move 12" to take advantage of wherever the enemy is weakest or provide spot firefighting.
There's space saved for a Palantine when she becomes available.
I'm also debating breaking off the Seraphim, Zephyrim, Pengines, and Celestine into a Patrol detachment, because while it will cost me CP, it will allow them to have a different doctrine [and also open up space for the third Exorcist]. I also kind of want the third exorcist, because if I can break open an extra APC on the first turn in shooting I'm in a position to kill off the passengers with my flame guns, which will put me ahead in the troops game. And if they go for the Exorcists, that's one more they have to kill to suppress that incoming fire, and they're leaving my own troop transports alone while theirs and their troops are dying.
This isn't really that groundbreaking. Everyone else I've talked to is also now working along similar lines after our first round of games and the post-game debriefs if they can right now, with cheap-troop loaded Falcons, Razorbacks, Repulsors, Impulsors, Chimera, and such proliferating heavily.
This list falls down for me a bit by trying to use seraphim and zephyrim the way you are. Valorous heart zephyrim hit like wet noodles and seraphim are obscenely expensive for their base profile now. You've got about 600pts wrapped up in 4 units that will combined only just put down 10 intercessors.
Dominions would accomplish the same thing while allowing you to cheese some secondaries with their scout move, threaten infiltrators early, be a lot cheaper, have access to simulacrums and still be able to threaten your opponent's lines if they need to. Quad SB combi-plas dominions would handle infantry while quint melta would make every tank sweat and both are cheaper than the zephyrim block, even in 10 girl squads.
Also, you're wasting a huge number of points on immolators. Rhinos will do the same job, better, for cheaper. They're literally suicide units in this list, why waste almost 50 points per?
If you want to keep the seraphim/zephyrim block, change the whole thing to BR. The damage is worth the lack of -2 immunity.
The core idea of the list I agree with, I just think Zephyrim are only every good in BR and Seraphim are far too expensive to be anything other than min-melta squads now.
U02dah4 wrote: Your argument would make sense if you hadn't sacrificed 14 wounds and any damage output
3BS squads come in at 165 so what you getting for 30pts extra
A ton of buffs 3 extra W and some passable CC
I'm not saying its ridiculously good but its certainly a consideration
My main problem with it - is that its too tall now lots of terrain isn't gf LoS blocking
Here's my thought on the Triumph:
It's got more than 9 wounds, it's an infantry character, it's more points than most tanks, it's got a profile of infantry. That alone makes me not want it. It will die in literally a heartbeat, even considering that it has a special rule to hide behind obscuring terrain.
2 characters with 8 wounds between them and an indestructible building will be almost infinitely more resilient than the Triumph of Saint Katherine because they can only be shot by snipers, but it can be shot by everything and it's dog that can draw range to it.
As for what I'm thinking of doing for 9e:
My past three games of 9e have instructed me that troops are critical, and more importantly, keeping them alive and on objectives is critical at pretty much at the expense of anything else up to and including destruction of enemy assets. In addition, being aggressive early is even more critical than before.
So, in light of that, I'm thinking:
Battalion: Valorous Heart
HQ Canoness
Celestine
Troops
BSSx6
Elites
Imagifier
Preacher
Zephyrim
Fast Attack
Seraphim
Heavy Support
Exorcist
Exorcist
Penitent Engines x2
Dedicated Transport
Immolator x4
Theory:
The 2 dismount squads will be for holding the rear and performing actions on objectives near the rear, lurking out of LoS if possible.
The 4 mounted squads will not plan on dismounting until forcibly dismounted by the destruction of their vehicle. Thus, they won't die until someone breaks open their tank, at which point they pop out and are still holding onto objectives hopefully at least until next turn. Maybe I'll give them meltaguns, I'm still not decided on that front.
The 4 tanks themselves will push up onto objectives and try to drive the enemy back from them with their flame guns. They'll eventually die, but when they do, troops will get out to continue holding the objectives.
Penitent Engines will basically be like the Immolators, but more dangerous in melee, and more aggressive to try to control the center with close quarters assets that are just a little bit too beefy for your average infantry unit to service efficiently. I'm debating between them and Mortifiers, but right now I'm on Penitent Engines because they're 10 points cheaper, fight in melee a little better, are a little tougher, I don't really care about the heavy bolters since I already have enough thanks to the invisible ones on all my tanks now, and most critically, I think 14"+3d6" is still enough threat range to engage most things on the board on turn 2. If the Pengines wind up being too slow, I'll switch them for Mortifiers.
The Exorcists will do what they do, and break tanks open.
The Celestine+Seraphim+Zephyrim block will provide an essentially self-contained strike force that can service tanks courtesy of the Seraphim and service any stripe of infantry courtesy of the Zephyrim & Celestine, is moderately hard to kill thanks to having a 4++, and can move 12" to take advantage of wherever the enemy is weakest or provide spot firefighting.
There's space saved for a Palantine when she becomes available.
I'm also debating breaking off the Seraphim, Zephyrim, Pengines, and Celestine into a Patrol detachment, because while it will cost me CP, it will allow them to have a different doctrine [and also open up space for the third Exorcist]. I also kind of want the third exorcist, because if I can break open an extra APC on the first turn in shooting I'm in a position to kill off the passengers with my flame guns, which will put me ahead in the troops game. And if they go for the Exorcists, that's one more they have to kill to suppress that incoming fire, and they're leaving my own troop transports alone while theirs and their troops are dying.
This isn't really that groundbreaking. Everyone else I've talked to is also now working along similar lines after our first round of games and the post-game debriefs if they can right now, with cheap-troop loaded Falcons, Razorbacks, Repulsors, Impulsors, Chimera, and such proliferating heavily.
This list falls down for me a bit by trying to use seraphim and zephyrim the way you are. Valorous heart zephyrim hit like wet noodles and seraphim are obscenely expensive for their base profile now. You've got about 600pts wrapped up in 4 units that will combined only just put down 10 intercessors.
Dominions would accomplish the same thing while allowing you to cheese some secondaries with their scout move, threaten infiltrators early, be a lot cheaper, have access to simulacrums and still be able to threaten your opponent's lines if they need to. Quad SB combi-plas dominions would handle infantry while quint melta would make every tank sweat and both are cheaper than the zephyrim block, even in 10 girl squads.
Also, you're wasting a huge number of points on immolators. Rhinos will do the same job, better, for cheaper. They're literally suicide units in this list, why waste almost 50 points per?
If you want to keep the seraphim/zephyrim block, change the whole thing to BR. The damage is worth the lack of -2 immunity.
The core idea of the list I agree with, I just think Zephyrim are only every good in BR and Seraphim are far too expensive to be anything other than min-melta squads now.
Rhinos are only better transports. In an 'eliminate troops first' the fire support from the Immolators is better. (Still don't like their cost)
Do you Advance onto an objective and smoke t1, or shoot at whatever infantry you can?
Regarding Geminae, they also made a mistake on points. Geminae are now in the MNF under NAMED with two **, so their power swords are built into points at the 18 listed. so they are actually 10% cheaper in new points than in 8th. AOW points costed one at 23. I still fully agree with ERJAK that they are garbage given that they count for Assassinate each time they die if C rezes them (how its been ruled locally, I'd assume how it would be in official play). 36 pts is better for the pair, but the fact you heal THEN rez on 4W that give secondary points easily is just asking to lose games.
If they gave points on resurrection the Assasinate rule would say so, since it does not, they do not. The same rules interpretation would have Celestine give away 12 points for Slay the Warlord.
These objectives are 'end game' objectives. You're scored on which models are destroyed when the battle ends, you're not scored as you destroy them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/31 00:25:47
Regarding Geminae, they also made a mistake on points. Geminae are now in the MNF under NAMED with two **, so their power swords are built into points at the 18 listed. so they are actually 10% cheaper in new points than in 8th. AOW points costed one at 23. I still fully agree with ERJAK that they are garbage given that they count for Assassinate each time they die if C rezes them (how its been ruled locally, I'd assume how it would be in official play). 36 pts is better for the pair, but the fact you heal THEN rez on 4W that give secondary points easily is just asking to lose games.
If they gave points on resurrection the Assasinate rule would say so, since it does not, they do not. The same rules interpretation would have Celestine give away 12 points for Slay the Warlord.
These objectives are 'end game' objectives. You're scored on which models are destroyed when the battle ends, you're not scored as you destroy them.
That's a great argument, thank you, since TTR actually explicitly indicates that itself! Actually makes them a bit more worth it since they do get LOS themselves to give C better ablative to snipers for cheap, but still not sure the risk is worth the outcome.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/31 01:24:48
U02dah4 wrote: Your argument would make sense if you hadn't sacrificed 14 wounds and any damage output
3BS squads come in at 165 so what you getting for 30pts extra
A ton of buffs 3 extra W and some passable CC
I'm not saying its ridiculously good but its certainly a consideration
My main problem with it - is that its too tall now lots of terrain isn't gf LoS blocking
Here's my thought on the Triumph:
It's got more than 9 wounds, it's an infantry character, it's more points than most tanks, it's got a profile of infantry. That alone makes me not want it. It will die in literally a heartbeat, even considering that it has a special rule to hide behind obscuring terrain.
2 characters with 8 wounds between them and an indestructible building will be almost infinitely more resilient than the Triumph of Saint Katherine because they can only be shot by snipers, but it can be shot by everything and it's dog that can draw range to it.
As for what I'm thinking of doing for 9e:
My past three games of 9e have instructed me that troops are critical, and more importantly, keeping them alive and on objectives is critical at pretty much at the expense of anything else up to and including destruction of enemy assets. In addition, being aggressive early is even more critical than before.
So, in light of that, I'm thinking:
Battalion: Valorous Heart
HQ Canoness
Celestine
Troops
BSSx6
Elites
Imagifier
Preacher
Zephyrim
Fast Attack
Seraphim
Heavy Support
Exorcist
Exorcist
Penitent Engines x2
Dedicated Transport
Immolator x4
Theory:
The 2 dismount squads will be for holding the rear and performing actions on objectives near the rear, lurking out of LoS if possible.
The 4 mounted squads will not plan on dismounting until forcibly dismounted by the destruction of their vehicle. Thus, they won't die until someone breaks open their tank, at which point they pop out and are still holding onto objectives hopefully at least until next turn. Maybe I'll give them meltaguns, I'm still not decided on that front.
The 4 tanks themselves will push up onto objectives and try to drive the enemy back from them with their flame guns. They'll eventually die, but when they do, troops will get out to continue holding the objectives.
Penitent Engines will basically be like the Immolators, but more dangerous in melee, and more aggressive to try to control the center with close quarters assets that are just a little bit too beefy for your average infantry unit to service efficiently. I'm debating between them and Mortifiers, but right now I'm on Penitent Engines because they're 10 points cheaper, fight in melee a little better, are a little tougher, I don't really care about the heavy bolters since I already have enough thanks to the invisible ones on all my tanks now, and most critically, I think 14"+3d6" is still enough threat range to engage most things on the board on turn 2. If the Pengines wind up being too slow, I'll switch them for Mortifiers.
The Exorcists will do what they do, and break tanks open.
The Celestine+Seraphim+Zephyrim block will provide an essentially self-contained strike force that can service tanks courtesy of the Seraphim and service any stripe of infantry courtesy of the Zephyrim & Celestine, is moderately hard to kill thanks to having a 4++, and can move 12" to take advantage of wherever the enemy is weakest or provide spot firefighting.
There's space saved for a Palantine when she becomes available.
I'm also debating breaking off the Seraphim, Zephyrim, Pengines, and Celestine into a Patrol detachment, because while it will cost me CP, it will allow them to have a different doctrine [and also open up space for the third Exorcist]. I also kind of want the third exorcist, because if I can break open an extra APC on the first turn in shooting I'm in a position to kill off the passengers with my flame guns, which will put me ahead in the troops game. And if they go for the Exorcists, that's one more they have to kill to suppress that incoming fire, and they're leaving my own troop transports alone while theirs and their troops are dying.
This isn't really that groundbreaking. Everyone else I've talked to is also now working along similar lines after our first round of games and the post-game debriefs if they can right now, with cheap-troop loaded Falcons, Razorbacks, Repulsors, Impulsors, Chimera, and such proliferating heavily.
This list falls down for me a bit by trying to use seraphim and zephyrim the way you are. Valorous heart zephyrim hit like wet noodles and seraphim are obscenely expensive for their base profile now. You've got about 600pts wrapped up in 4 units that will combined only just put down 10 intercessors.
Dominions would accomplish the same thing while allowing you to cheese some secondaries with their scout move, threaten infiltrators early, be a lot cheaper, have access to simulacrums and still be able to threaten your opponent's lines if they need to. Quad SB combi-plas dominions would handle infantry while quint melta would make every tank sweat and both are cheaper than the zephyrim block, even in 10 girl squads.
Also, you're wasting a huge number of points on immolators. Rhinos will do the same job, better, for cheaper. They're literally suicide units in this list, why waste almost 50 points per?
If you want to keep the seraphim/zephyrim block, change the whole thing to BR. The damage is worth the lack of -2 immunity.
The core idea of the list I agree with, I just think Zephyrim are only every good in BR and Seraphim are far too expensive to be anything other than min-melta squads now.
Rhinos are only better transports. In an 'eliminate troops first' the fire support from the Immolators is better. (Still don't like their cost)
Do you Advance onto an objective and smoke t1, or shoot at whatever infantry you can?
Immolators aren't worth it if they manage to stay alive and roast guard squads for the whole 5 turns. They're 125 points, at that cost they're the second worst model in the army behind the geminae superia.
In an absolutely ideal scenario you get first turn and an opponent who camps their cheap screen troops on the 24" line, you advance forward(you have to advance to be within flamer range) so you're on 2-4 deadzone objectives with all 4 immolators, the immolators fire at their guardsman or fire warriors doing 15 wounds, which sounds good until you realize that that's only 75 points of guardsman. If you had used rhinos you could have had a Conflagration missile exorcist and 4 Hunter killer missiles on the rhinos to shoot first turn(because they have more than a 12" range and don't need to advance to be in range of the objective and of shooting) or 3 mortifiers shooting their heavy bolters.
Immolators aren't worse than rhinos because of what rhinos can do, immolators are worse than rhinos because of what 47pts can do when you spend it on the something else.
U02dah4 wrote: Your argument would make sense if you hadn't sacrificed 14 wounds and any damage output
3BS squads come in at 165 so what you getting for 30pts extra
A ton of buffs 3 extra W and some passable CC
I'm not saying its ridiculously good but its certainly a consideration
My main problem with it - is that its too tall now lots of terrain isn't gf LoS blocking
Here's my thought on the Triumph:
It's got more than 9 wounds, it's an infantry character, it's more points than most tanks, it's got a profile of infantry. That alone makes me not want it. It will die in literally a heartbeat, even considering that it has a special rule to hide behind obscuring terrain.
2 characters with 8 wounds between them and an indestructible building will be almost infinitely more resilient than the Triumph of Saint Katherine because they can only be shot by snipers, but it can be shot by everything and it's dog that can draw range to it.
As for what I'm thinking of doing for 9e:
My past three games of 9e have instructed me that troops are critical, and more importantly, keeping them alive and on objectives is critical at pretty much at the expense of anything else up to and including destruction of enemy assets. In addition, being aggressive early is even more critical than before.
So, in light of that, I'm thinking:
Battalion: Valorous Heart
HQ Canoness
Celestine
Troops
BSSx6
Elites
Imagifier
Preacher
Zephyrim
Fast Attack
Seraphim
Heavy Support
Exorcist
Exorcist
Penitent Engines x2
Dedicated Transport
Immolator x4
Theory:
The 2 dismount squads will be for holding the rear and performing actions on objectives near the rear, lurking out of LoS if possible.
The 4 mounted squads will not plan on dismounting until forcibly dismounted by the destruction of their vehicle. Thus, they won't die until someone breaks open their tank, at which point they pop out and are still holding onto objectives hopefully at least until next turn. Maybe I'll give them meltaguns, I'm still not decided on that front.
The 4 tanks themselves will push up onto objectives and try to drive the enemy back from them with their flame guns. They'll eventually die, but when they do, troops will get out to continue holding the objectives.
Penitent Engines will basically be like the Immolators, but more dangerous in melee, and more aggressive to try to control the center with close quarters assets that are just a little bit too beefy for your average infantry unit to service efficiently. I'm debating between them and Mortifiers, but right now I'm on Penitent Engines because they're 10 points cheaper, fight in melee a little better, are a little tougher, I don't really care about the heavy bolters since I already have enough thanks to the invisible ones on all my tanks now, and most critically, I think 14"+3d6" is still enough threat range to engage most things on the board on turn 2. If the Pengines wind up being too slow, I'll switch them for Mortifiers.
The Exorcists will do what they do, and break tanks open.
The Celestine+Seraphim+Zephyrim block will provide an essentially self-contained strike force that can service tanks courtesy of the Seraphim and service any stripe of infantry courtesy of the Zephyrim & Celestine, is moderately hard to kill thanks to having a 4++, and can move 12" to take advantage of wherever the enemy is weakest or provide spot firefighting.
There's space saved for a Palantine when she becomes available.
I'm also debating breaking off the Seraphim, Zephyrim, Pengines, and Celestine into a Patrol detachment, because while it will cost me CP, it will allow them to have a different doctrine [and also open up space for the third Exorcist]. I also kind of want the third exorcist, because if I can break open an extra APC on the first turn in shooting I'm in a position to kill off the passengers with my flame guns, which will put me ahead in the troops game. And if they go for the Exorcists, that's one more they have to kill to suppress that incoming fire, and they're leaving my own troop transports alone while theirs and their troops are dying.
This isn't really that groundbreaking. Everyone else I've talked to is also now working along similar lines after our first round of games and the post-game debriefs if they can right now, with cheap-troop loaded Falcons, Razorbacks, Repulsors, Impulsors, Chimera, and such proliferating heavily.
This list falls down for me a bit by trying to use seraphim and zephyrim the way you are. Valorous heart zephyrim hit like wet noodles and seraphim are obscenely expensive for their base profile now. You've got about 600pts wrapped up in 4 units that will combined only just put down 10 intercessors.
Dominions would accomplish the same thing while allowing you to cheese some secondaries with their scout move, threaten infiltrators early, be a lot cheaper, have access to simulacrums and still be able to threaten your opponent's lines if they need to. Quad SB combi-plas dominions would handle infantry while quint melta would make every tank sweat and both are cheaper than the zephyrim block, even in 10 girl squads.
Also, you're wasting a huge number of points on immolators. Rhinos will do the same job, better, for cheaper. They're literally suicide units in this list, why waste almost 50 points per?
If you want to keep the seraphim/zephyrim block, change the whole thing to BR. The damage is worth the lack of -2 immunity.
The core idea of the list I agree with, I just think Zephyrim are only every good in BR and Seraphim are far too expensive to be anything other than min-melta squads now.
Rhinos are only better transports. In an 'eliminate troops first' the fire support from the Immolators is better. (Still don't like their cost)
Do you Advance onto an objective and smoke t1, or shoot at whatever infantry you can?
Immolators aren't worth it if they manage to stay alive and roast guard squads for the whole 5 turns. They're 125 points, at that cost they're the second worst model in the army behind the geminae superia.
In an absolutely ideal scenario you get first turn and an opponent who camps their cheap screen troops on the 24" line, you advance forward(you have to advance to be within flamer range) so you're on 2-4 deadzone objectives with all 4 immolators, the immolators fire at their guardsman or fire warriors doing 15 wounds, which sounds good until you realize that that's only 75 points of guardsman. If you had used rhinos you could have had a Conflagration missile exorcist and 4 Hunter killer missiles on the rhinos to shoot first turn(because they have more than a 12" range and don't need to advance to be in range of the objective and of shooting) or 3 mortifiers shooting their heavy bolters.
Immolators aren't worse than rhinos because of what rhinos can do, immolators are worse than rhinos because of what 47pts can do when you spend it on the something else.
That's a very binary assessment of Immolators that also ignores my acknowledgement that they're still overcosted and that I've argued the changes in 9th has made them worse before the point increase.
Do we have an authoritative reference for the new points values yet? Or just pretty-reliable-leaks? I’d love a link to whatever people think the best source is. Thanks.
BURN IT DOWN BURN IT DOWN BABY BURN IT DOWN
Psienesis wrote: Well, if you check out Sister Sydney's homebrew/expansion rules, you'll find all kinds of units the Sisters could have, that fit with the theme of the Sisters (as a tabletop army) perfectly well, and are damn-near-perfectly balanced.
On Triumph, it is worth pointing out that while you can replicate it's aura abilities with a smaller model a 6" aura off the triumph base will cover considerably more area than those solos.
Whether you value that or not is up to you I suppose.
SisterSydney wrote: Do we have an authoritative reference for the new points values yet? Or just pretty-reliable-leaks? I’d love a link to whatever people think the best source is. Thanks.
The Chapter Approved Munitorum Field Manual was released with Indomitus on Sat, so they are officially available in the two pack book collection which also includes the GT2020 rulebook for tournament quality game rules. They are a bit different than the main rulebook's versions, both in what some secondaries give for points as well as mission packs. BS was also updated with current points with just a few errors here and there (hunter killer missiles still being 6 in some places) for us. But mostly there (can edit the roster for those to be correct if you need to).
Regarding Geminae, they also made a mistake on points. Geminae are now in the MNF under NAMED with two **, so their power swords are built into points at the 18 listed. so they are actually 10% cheaper in new points than in 8th. AOW points costed one at 23. I still fully agree with ERJAK that they are garbage given that they count for Assassinate each time they die if C rezes them (how its been ruled locally, I'd assume how it would be in official play). 36 pts is better for the pair, but the fact you heal THEN rez on 4W that give secondary points easily is just asking to lose games.
They became wargear included in ca19 for 16 pts. So 2 pts price hike.
davidgr33n wrote: I plan on a pure infantry force (Bloody Rose) with the exception of 3 Mortifiers for “While We Stand We Fight”, so how many meltas (of all flavors) should a 2000 point force bring? Would 25 be enough? 30?
Just wondering thoughts on this.
You really have no model more expensive than 60? Those are ratker bad targets for wmswf secondary though. Durability of wet paper so either you hide somewhere never doing any damage or it's 0 vp to you
They’re my 3 most expensive models, so 1 CP puts them in reserve all game long or at a pinch I bring them on together toward endgame somewhere out of reach and use their Hvy Bolters. 15 VP for 180 pts and still have utility in keeping the opponent guessing or if I do need them.
My other most expensive model is a Canoness at 55, but I can drop her plasma pistol, make her 50, and bring 3 Pen Engines to do the same thing. They don’t have the flexibility of Mortifiers but keeping them in reserve basically nets me 15 VP for 10 pts per VP.
Even at best opponent has 2 turns(2.5 if you go first). Would be doubtful of their survival. And nearly 200 that will then do nothing in game
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SisterSydney wrote: Do we have an authoritative reference for the new points values yet? Or just pretty-reliable-leaks? I’d love a link to whatever people think the best source is. Thanks.
Chapter approved.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/31 05:57:53
Are we thinking Dominions with SBs and maybe a combi-melta on the superior or some combination? I'm trying to find points to get Blessed Bolt to have some usefulness, but i feel like SBs were priced out with the melta decrease making them a bit more viable on the vanguard. Thoughts?
Dragonbeef4Life wrote: Are we thinking Dominions with SBs and maybe a combi-melta on the superior or some combination? I'm trying to find points to get Blessed Bolt to have some usefulness, but i feel like SBs were priced out with the melta decrease making them a bit more viable on the vanguard. Thoughts?
Combi-plasma synergizes better than combi-melta. Both SB and melta Doms have their place although the melta squads are an EXTREMELY terrain dependent early game threat while the SB squads are a cheap way to cheese some secondaries and maybe blast an intercessor squad off an objective with Blessed Bolts and Divine Guidance.
Basically, stormbolters are a better all round pick whereas the melta can potentially highroll a value target with favorable terrain setup and some good advance rolls.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/01 08:41:48
U02dah4 wrote:SB still. The most valuable thing that dominions do now is the pregame move. To get to objectives
I think this ability incredibly devalued this edition. Scoring doesn't happen until the beginning of turn 2. That's plenty of time for troops to get to and take them and to kick the dominions, who won't survive very long at all since thy're dismounts, off of them anyway.
And that's before you get to the point where oh, they have to stop 9" from enemy models, oh, there's Infiltrators/Eliminators already there. Might as well buy BSSIMO right now, since BSS are obsec and cheaper and are going to get the same value.
U02dah4 wrote: Your argument would make sense if you hadn't sacrificed 14 wounds and any damage output
3BS squads come in at 165 so what you getting for 30pts extra
A ton of buffs 3 extra W and some passable CC
I'm not saying its ridiculously good but its certainly a consideration
My main problem with it - is that its too tall now lots of terrain isn't gf LoS blocking
Here's my thought on the Triumph:
It's got more than 9 wounds, it's an infantry character, it's more points than most tanks, it's got a profile of infantry. That alone makes me not want it. It will die in literally a heartbeat, even considering that it has a special rule to hide behind obscuring terrain.
2 characters with 8 wounds between them and an indestructible building will be almost infinitely more resilient than the Triumph of Saint Katherine because they can only be shot by snipers, but it can be shot by everything and it's dog that can draw range to it.
As for what I'm thinking of doing for 9e:
My past three games of 9e have instructed me that troops are critical, and more importantly, keeping them alive and on objectives is critical at pretty much at the expense of anything else up to and including destruction of enemy assets. In addition, being aggressive early is even more critical than before.
So, in light of that, I'm thinking:
Battalion: Valorous Heart
HQ Canoness
Celestine
Troops
BSSx6
Elites
Imagifier
Preacher
Zephyrim
Fast Attack
Seraphim
Heavy Support
Exorcist
Exorcist
Penitent Engines x2
Dedicated Transport
Immolator x4
Theory:
The 2 dismount squads will be for holding the rear and performing actions on objectives near the rear, lurking out of LoS if possible.
The 4 mounted squads will not plan on dismounting until forcibly dismounted by the destruction of their vehicle. Thus, they won't die until someone breaks open their tank, at which point they pop out and are still holding onto objectives hopefully at least until next turn. Maybe I'll give them meltaguns, I'm still not decided on that front.
The 4 tanks themselves will push up onto objectives and try to drive the enemy back from them with their flame guns. They'll eventually die, but when they do, troops will get out to continue holding the objectives.
Penitent Engines will basically be like the Immolators, but more dangerous in melee, and more aggressive to try to control the center with close quarters assets that are just a little bit too beefy for your average infantry unit to service efficiently. I'm debating between them and Mortifiers, but right now I'm on Penitent Engines because they're 10 points cheaper, fight in melee a little better, are a little tougher, I don't really care about the heavy bolters since I already have enough thanks to the invisible ones on all my tanks now, and most critically, I think 14"+3d6" is still enough threat range to engage most things on the board on turn 2. If the Pengines wind up being too slow, I'll switch them for Mortifiers.
The Exorcists will do what they do, and break tanks open.
The Celestine+Seraphim+Zephyrim block will provide an essentially self-contained strike force that can service tanks courtesy of the Seraphim and service any stripe of infantry courtesy of the Zephyrim & Celestine, is moderately hard to kill thanks to having a 4++, and can move 12" to take advantage of wherever the enemy is weakest or provide spot firefighting.
There's space saved for a Palantine when she becomes available.
I'm also debating breaking off the Seraphim, Zephyrim, Pengines, and Celestine into a Patrol detachment, because while it will cost me CP, it will allow them to have a different doctrine [and also open up space for the third Exorcist]. I also kind of want the third exorcist, because if I can break open an extra APC on the first turn in shooting I'm in a position to kill off the passengers with my flame guns, which will put me ahead in the troops game. And if they go for the Exorcists, that's one more they have to kill to suppress that incoming fire, and they're leaving my own troop transports alone while theirs and their troops are dying.
This isn't really that groundbreaking. Everyone else I've talked to is also now working along similar lines after our first round of games and the post-game debriefs if they can right now, with cheap-troop loaded Falcons, Razorbacks, Repulsors, Impulsors, Chimera, and such proliferating heavily.
This list falls down for me a bit by trying to use seraphim and zephyrim the way you are. Valorous heart zephyrim hit like wet noodles and seraphim are obscenely expensive for their base profile now. You've got about 600pts wrapped up in 4 units that will combined only just put down 10 intercessors.
Dominions would accomplish the same thing while allowing you to cheese some secondaries with their scout move, threaten infiltrators early, be a lot cheaper, have access to simulacrums and still be able to threaten your opponent's lines if they need to. Quad SB combi-plas dominions would handle infantry while quint melta would make every tank sweat and both are cheaper than the zephyrim block, even in 10 girl squads.
Also, you're wasting a huge number of points on immolators. Rhinos will do the same job, better, for cheaper. They're literally suicide units in this list, why waste almost 50 points per?
If you want to keep the seraphim/zephyrim block, change the whole thing to BR. The damage is worth the lack of -2 immunity.
The core idea of the list I agree with, I just think Zephyrim are only every good in BR and Seraphim are far too expensive to be anything other than min-melta squads now.
Here's my thoughts of Doms vs. Seraphim/Zephyrim:
Dominions don't currently do anything for me, and are effectively more expensive special weapons battle sisters. I would rather take BSS over Dom, because BSS are Obsec and Doms are not.
Seraphim/Zephyrim, with Celestine, are 4++, making them fairly resilient on their own to leave the safety of bubbles and things as an independent strike force. They're fast, so I can get them on the board where they need to be, which Dominions aren't.
Finally, they probably don't need to kill more than 10 Intercessors, because intercessors come in squads of 5-10 and if there's more than 10 on a single objective the rest of my army probably has good enough board control that I'm lined up to win anyway, or I've already lost the game.
Right now, the idea is that offensively the Meltagun Seraphim can crack a tank, and then the whole block can charge and destroy the unit within it, thus being able to clear an objective in one turn and have sufficient on-board mass to require addressing and turn the flank. Defensively, with 12" move, they can rush to reinforce the center or main center of gravity. Dominions can do none of those things, and Repentia require more support, are also no longer S8, aren't as fast, and can be cleared offhandedly instead of requiring a dedicated effort to remove.
I am, however, as mentioned, still on the fence about whether I want them to be in a BR or AS patrol. If I cut them and the Pengines off into a patrol, I lose 2 CP, but I also clear the extra HS slot to be used by a third Exorcist. I'm not actually entirely sold on the extra Exorcist slot and the buffs/stratagem options to the Zephyrim and Seraphim being worth the 2 CP, especially if I also want a Heroine in the Making or Venerated Saint or Opened Reliquaries or something. Fundamentally, the Zephyrim, Celestine, and Seraphim are adequate without the buffs to destroy most things they might be asked to destroy. Fundamentally, one should not pay for capability that isn't required; they don't need to be the best, they need to meet requirements.
Lammia wrote:Rhinos are only better transports. In an 'eliminate troops first' the fire support from the Immolators is better. (Still don't like their cost)
Do you Advance onto an objective and smoke t1, or shoot at whatever infantry you can?
I intend to advance & shoot at enemy units. Specifically, I intend to try to crack open enemy dedicated transports with exorcists, and then try to kill or deplete the guys inside with Immolator flame guns.
The thing is, the dedicated transports need to be tanks in their own right because I don't plan to dismount until the transport is blown up. I plan to send them to the objectives I want to get, so I can't go with 2x Rhinos for 4x BSS, because then they can't threaten as many objectives.
The basic gist of it is; I have 4 tanks, and when you kill them, there's an obsec infantry unit that hopefully you won't have a good opportunity to destroy until the following turn still left on the objective. On the offense, I have anti-infantry flame guns that are very mobile, so they can handle horde infantry and still threaten the units that will be generally riding inside any of the enemy's dedicated transports that the Exorcists can break open.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/08/01 18:29:30
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Not gonna quote the whole thing so this is for ILK:
Obsec isn't great honestly, especially for battle sisters. If you've got less than 40 on an objective they'll just kill you off of it.
PRIMARY scoring is turn two, and is mostly an irrlevant concern because we're really good at scoring primary. Dominions let you cheese some of the secondaries like putting down 4 banners or some of the mission specific ones.
That plan makes immolators, easily the second worst unit in the codex EVEN WORSE. Combining your firepower into your 'i'm not going to give up this objective until you kill my transport AND the guys inside ' makes both of them worse. Especially when you consider that the 4 immolators together don't have enough firepower to kill 5 intercessors on even dice(you JUST BARELY do if you run them argent shroud and can add the heavy bolters. 500pts of tank barely kills 100pts of troopers).
If you ran rhinos you would be able to put that 200ish points into something that's actually good at shooting and then your opponent would still have to kill all the vehicles on the objectives and all the people inside. But by doing so they leave your actual damaging units untouched.
There is not a single use case in the game for 125pt immolators. Everything they can do can be done far better by a rhino+ an actually good unit.
ERJAK wrote: Not gonna quote the whole thing so this is for ILK:
Obsec isn't great honestly, especially for battle sisters. If you've got less than 40 on an objective they'll just kill you off of it.
PRIMARY scoring is turn two, and is mostly an irrlevant concern because we're really good at scoring primary. Dominions let you cheese some of the secondaries like putting down 4 banners or some of the mission specific ones.
I'm confused. You say you need 40 to take and hold an objective and not get killed off of it, and then say that we're really good at scoring primary. Those are conflicting statements.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Figuring out how to adapt my army list to ninth edition... at this point I might just wait until I see a sisters codex, given that I'm not risking bringing covid back to my family anyway.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
So had my first small game yesterday. Tried all foot sisters and I dont see anyway to make that work.
I would love to make an all infantry list work but with meltas being our main go to their short range means we are eating 2 turns of shooting before we can even deal much damage.
Has anyone had luck with foot only or are rhinos/immolators that mandatory?
Also am I missing something in the codex but where do Celestians get there killing power from? The 3 Meltas?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/04 12:24:08
Incognito15 wrote: So had my first small game yesterday. Tried all foot sisters and I dont see anyway to make that work.
I would love to make an all infantry list work but with meltas being our main go to their short range means we are eating 2 turns of shooting before we can even deal much damage.
Has anyone had luck with foot only or are rhinos/immolators that mandatory?
Also am I missing something in the codex but where do Celestians get there killing power from? The 3 Meltas?
I don't think anyone has enough 9th games or a good enough understanding of meta to tell you if foot spam is viable
