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Another day, another leak one can hope filters to other Imperial and Chaos armies.

https://m.imgur.com/0t6HwtX

30" range bolters...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Note: it's possible that a special issue bolter, but something else not marked in that pic that should be:

12" range flamers.

More stuff to wait years if sisters ever get them

Am I understanding Heroic Intervention correctly? All characters get a free 3" move towards the enemy during the opponents fight phase.

CleansingFire wrote:
Am I understanding Heroic Intervention correctly? All characters get a free 3" move towards the enemy during the opponents fight phase.

If you can make it to within an inch of the enemy, yeah.

Bright side regular flamers are going up to 12" as well, and all imperial weaponry will be updated with the marine codex according to the article.

Yep thats a good thing well for us Imperials.....

Bigger Guns and Stabbier Blades for Everyone!

Now, we know that LOTS of armies use these weapons, whether supplied by the Tech-Adepts of Mars or perhaps even “acquired” through less Imperium-friendly means to turn on their former masters. In any case, when Codex: Space Marines arrives in October, every other unit that utilises the same wargear – regardless of Faction – will get their weapon profiles upgraded accordingly.

Melta weapons are about to get even more destructive at close range (apparently, such a thing IS possible!), with a flat +2 Damage bonus replacing its current ability, resulting in a whopping Damage potential of 8! What’s more, the rules team have put the ‘multi’ into multi-melta, as it’s doubling up to Heavy 2! Heretics beware…

Flamers and heavy flamers are moving to Range 12″, all the better to dissuade enemy assaults and hose your enemies down with liquid fire.

Super-size Your Heavy Bolter – Now With Added Explosive Death! These upscaled bolt weapons are set to become Damage 2, as befits the unmitigated brutality of being hit by a hail of armour-piercing, mass-reactive shells the size of tin cans!

Time to Slice and Dice!
Power swords are due to get a +1 Strength modifier, all the better for chopping up tougher foes with their energy-wreathed blades. That’s not all, either – the massive Astartes-grade chainswords wielded by Space Marines both new and old will be hitting at AP -1. Apparently, being struck by a 4-foot chainblade with adamantium-tipped teeth 6″ wide is not only exceptionally bad for your health, but it can do your armour a disservice too. Who’d have thought?

According to the release today on Warhammer Community, all of these changes will be effective across the Imperium with the release of the SM codex, including Sisters. So those power swords are indeed going to +1S and are not astartes only, the HB is moving to D2, the flamer is going to 12", and the MMs are going to H2 with +2D at half. All the speculation on the changes has been confirmed being applied in Oct.

How do we think, outside of the Immo discussion we already had, that all of these confirmed changes will impact our troop options? Do we see Retributors make a case to be valid again? Do you plan on including Zeph more with S4 attacks now? Our vehicles got a bit more deadly overall, so i think we are all in agreement there.

Assuming no point changes, these modifications to the multi-melta just made the immolator an interesting option.

145 points for 4 melta shots with a 24 inch threat, is nothing to joke about. Putting these into strategic reserve would be a headache for your opponent

It seems to me with the current changes. The Exorcist is no longer our BFF, it's going to be replaced by everything that can use a heavy weapon.

That means every squad of 5 BSS gets a heavy weapon, Retributor Squads are -in-. Mortifiers are the best thing since sliced bread.

The melta change (+2D inside half) is all melta weapons, not just multi-meltas. Seraphim firing inferno pistols at targets they're engaged with should be extra toasty now.

Dragonbeef4Life wrote:
According to the release today on Warhammer Community, all of these changes will be effective across the Imperium with the release of the SM codex, including Sisters. So those power swords are indeed going to +1S and are not astartes only, the HB is moving to D2, the flamer is going to 12", and the MMs are going to H2 with +2D at half. All the speculation on the changes has been confirmed being applied in Oct.

How do we think, outside of the Immo discussion we already had, that all of these confirmed changes will impact our troop options? Do we see Retributors make a case to be valid again? Do you plan on including Zeph more with S4 attacks now? Our vehicles got a bit more deadly overall, so i think we are all in agreement there.

These are absolutley MASSIVE boosts to our army across the board. It's actually kind of crazy how big this is going to be.

You have to keep in mind that space marine players are going like 'hmm, yes, we might now see a 12% upgrade in point efficiency if we take multimelta drop pods over grav amp drop pods assuming you carry the 3 repeating of course'.

Meanwhile for us it's " MY WEAPONS DO DOUBLE DAMAGES FOR FREE YA'LL YIPPY KAI YAI YIPPY YIPPY YAY!

All the stuff we were taking anyway is getting better for (at least at this moment) free. Retributors become terrifying, zephyrim become crazy anti-infantry cuisinarts, mortifiers are suddenly melting intercessors and rhinos all over the board with their two damage shots. It's a good day to be the army that most makes do with the crappy old generic imperial profiles.




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Corizin wrote:
It seems to me with the current changes. The Exorcist is no longer our BFF, it's going to be replaced by everything that can use a heavy weapon.

That means every squad of 5 BSS gets a heavy weapon, Retributor Squads are -in-. Mortifiers are the best thing since sliced bread.

Let's not get tooooo crazy. I'm super stoked about the changes as well but exorcists aren't out just yet and as good as multimeltas and heavy bolters are now, don't jump the gun and hand them out willy-nilly without considering that there are significant benefits to giving a unit a cheaper melta or stormbolter instead.

It's more like 'now I can take a heavy weapon in a BSS squad without feeling like I threw away 20 points!' It's finally a real option for a backline objective camper.

the real question is would you pay 2cp for +1 to hit on HB rets now at D2, still seems lackluster. Id still gladly play 2cp to get 18inch melta range on MM rets.

i was already using zephyrim at S3 so unless their points go up more with the s4 sword (hope not) they still have a place for me.

my twin flamer combi melta BSS squards became more usable so im happy there.

30" boltguns also seem a bit assanine, i hope thats just special boltguns on the vets and characters and not across the board.. unless they plan to make all basic troop rifles 30" from now on.

Edit* do we think hand flamers are going up in range if both flamers and heavy flamers went up to 12?

 warmaster21 wrote:
the real question is would you pay 2cp for +1 to hit on HB rets now at D2, still seems lackluster. Id still gladly play 2cp to get 18inch melta range on MM rets.

i was already using zephyrim at S3 so unless their points go up more with the s4 sword (hope not) they still have a place for me.

my twin flamer combi melta BSS squards became more usable so im happy there.

30" boltguns also seem a bit assanine, i hope thats just special boltguns on the vets and characters and not across the board.. unless they plan to make all basic troop rifles 30" from now on.

Edit* do we think hand flamers are going up in range if both flamers and heavy flamers went up to 12?

I don't see the zephyrim's points going up just because of how the smaller board size effects them. They have a pretty massive footprint between the new coherency rules and 10 model squads being the best way to run them. This has, at least in my experience, lead to it being much more difficult to use them in general.

Also about hfs...that only really matters for seraphim. at 5 points they could be 120" range and you probably wouldn't take them. At 2pts if they go to 12" (and that is the minimum range required to be useful) they could shoot twice on the drop with deadly descent. That...might be worth it in bloody rose.

ERJAK wrote:

It's more like 'now I can take a heavy weapon in a BSS squad without feeling like I threw away 20 points!' It's finally a real option for a backline objective camper.

Doesn't need to be backline even. Thanks to miracle dice a BSS squad with a multi-melta is a genuine deadly threat to just about anything and with 12'' range a heavy flamer in the hands of a squad sent to contest the middle objectives has a reasonable chance to shoot at something.

Though it remains a mystery to me why Heavy Flamers are more expensive then Heavy Bolters when Heavy Bolters are better in almost any situation other then overwatch.

Woo... confirmation!

Going to be good times.

2 shot multi-meltas

30" boltguns

+1 STR Power Swords for Zephyrim (BR still best, but it is a LOT LESS "no brainer" now... drops from like 75% extra efficiency vs 4T to like 10-15% more)

12" Flamers to make Holy Trinity not as hot of garbage (I'm sure it'll still be questioned, but it isn't objectively bad to force it into your units)

Rets now sporting 16" heavy flamers... that may end up being a bigger deal than it seems on the surface.

It is Christmas time... though... poor Xenos. Way to get kicked when they're down.

Purifying Tempest wrote:
It is Christmas time... though... poor Xenos. Way to get kicked when they're down.

Until the xenos updates come along anyway. This could be the first step in the game becoming much more lethal.

Heavy Bolters:
-Mortifiers are now pretty tasty i think, when i had written them off before due to Grind them Down. 6 shots D2s that can assault and shoot them at 4s to hit is pretty amazing. You have a 60 pt threat that can down its equal in marines fairly efficiently while still being a threat into melee range. I still don't like that they don't benefit from much of the book, but their T5 5W durability is something of a consideration now with their offensive capacity
-Rets with HBs, though, at 100 pts flat pushing out 12 shots of D2 damage at 36" is suddenly a real threat when they can move and shoot without penalty as well. Cheaper than 2 Morts, while still getting SoF,SR,Miralce is rather nice
-BSS adding in a HB for 10 to hold on backfield may suddenly be worth it
-Heavy slot just got a lot more challenging if we see the meta having 2W targets, like confirmed SMs (including Chaos) are going, given things

Flamers:
-Rets having that increase to 16" range on the heavy flamers is pretty nice too, so they have a pretty good bump up. I doubt that anyone is charging into a Ret squad though for Overwatch to do anything there. They'd get shot long before then, or charged from out of line of sight.
-I think if hand flamers go up, their cost goes up to 5 even for Seraphim then. I don't see them being 2 pts still if they can shoot twice at excellent range with them. They're cheap to compete against the inferno, but with the melta rule buff, they won't complete even at 2 pts.
-I actually don't think flamers are really key to our victory at this point. While our lore says we bath things in flame to cleanse it, the output levels of flamers still leaves me wanting now in comparison to either the HB or MM for a few points more given that flamers only get ~1.5 shots more than a MM and .5 more than a HB yet still D1. The autohit is nice, but that really only matters in bulk and our ballistic skill is decent enough

Multi-meltas:
-Huge change for us I think. 20 points on a BSS squad being able to successfully take down a tank on their own with one (two shots is the real change up here, not the +2D). That makes kited out units for 75 pts holding objectives extremely deadly while backfield Rets can hold the advance.
-Immos are confirmed 145 beasts at this point. 4 shot MM transports with their HB to help clear around the obj on strategic reserves is a full fledged game changer for our deployment strategy. At PL 5, with a BSS at PL 4, 2 containers of these can be SR'd for 2 CP and really challenge a board edge. Or they start on board and can advance up the board getting the firepower from round 1. Lots of options
-Rets with pure MMs I'm not sure i'm sold on. 36" range with +1D is nice for a turn, but 2 CP for that still seems a challenge for that strat. Even +1 to hit for HBs, or rerolling w on flamers. 2 CP should have a significant impact, and i just don't see it.
-I also think regular melta guns for 10 pts now likely vanish for us as the 2 shot version for 10 pts ensures more direct killing potential for why we brought the meltas to begin with.

Powerswords make Zeph usable again across the board. The bonus with the pennant to charge will likely be huge if we can have it included with a useful ninja blender. Statistically, the powermaul is generally garbage unless we start seeing T6 melee targets being what they are fighting. And with axe being what it is for Legends, i feel like the powersword change is a great relative change for us here.

I see Storm Bolters decreasing in value a bit as they stay D1. While volume of fire is still great for us, i'd likely find the 10 for the HB now. And left over points likely would get filled with stormbolters as more an afterthought than what i want to arm them with upfront.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

A.T. wrote:

Purifying Tempest wrote:
It is Christmas time... though... poor Xenos. Way to get kicked when they're down.

Until the xenos updates come along anyway. This could be the first step in the game becoming much more lethal.

Its a bit rough as basically half the armies out there got rather massive weapon and wounds buffs, and the other half is left with wound buffs being teased and changes to weapons. Bit of a slap in the face to say "you have to wait for your codexes" when those haven't even been announced is demoralizing. you know for at least a few months you're going to have to face off against these buffed armies and there isn't much you can do.

Anyone else thinking Heavy Bolter Immolators won't be such hot garbage any more? 125 Points for 9 S5 AP -1 D2 attacks along with a small unit transport doesn't sound so horrible compared to a unit of 5 Retributors with 3 HB for 90 points.

As 40k moves more to vehicles and +2D / high AP weaponry, 1W “cheap-ish” foot Sisters toting meltas and buffed by 4++ invuln saves looks like a pretty good winning formula to me.

 alextroy wrote:
Anyone else thinking Heavy Bolter Immolators won't be such hot garbage any more? 125 Points for 9 S5 AP -1 D2 attacks along with a small unit transport doesn't sound so horrible compared to a unit of 5 Retributors with 3 HB for 90 points.

They do fit into some builds, I'm sure, but for my Heavy Bolter platform I'm sticking with Mortifiers. The Immolator impresses me as an AT platform now, though.

However, I'm really hoping to see what the flamer might be capable if it also receives some attention.

Lately I've been concerned about bringing exorcists. Obviously they're great for long range shooting, but I'm getting spooked by the amount of anti tank that'll just end 'em.

Of course, if I don't take them I guess rhinos with Repentia in them become the next best target unfortunately @.@

 davidgr33n wrote:
As 40k moves more to vehicles and +2D / high AP weaponry, 1W “cheap-ish” foot Sisters toting meltas and buffed by 4++ invuln saves looks like a pretty good winning formula to me.

Its actually a good point, but i still worry about bulk shooting since troops are t3, the difference that volume of fire makes to them vs tanks is rather substantial. The benefit of the Exo is still that t8 is hard to punch when you're protecting it and allowing its 48" range to do its damage. Troop choices are far less durable even if you can do more output. A lot of that comes down to how you play. I only run 2 Exos as 3 is too many points on what amounts to 18 shots between them on average. That 195 is basically a rhino and full rep squad that i like much more. Immo point costs are going to throw me for a loop a bit and may have me going more pure BR than the VH/BR i play now given the ranged firepower add they get that they really lacked before

The good news with the Zeph is that in BR, They trade out a 5 MSU MEQ squad now on the charge statistically when you use Tear it Down(10 wounds at -4AP), or 8 wounds base without the strat, which might actually be better since it keeps them in combat to avoid the counter shots. Much more viable on the board now overall in any order though.

Seph get a bit of buffing in the infernos if they can survive the round post drop and get close to their target. I almost like the idea of keeping one unit of them on the board behind obscuring to keep the landspeeder/impulsor rushes i've seen a lot of lately in matches by SMs. A 15" range for 4 S8 -4, D6+2 dam is a significant shield block to tank advances. And the threat of that drop is always good, even with Auspex. They have to either keep the 2 CP and not use it, which is an advantage on its own, or their counter to the drop is to try and screen which usually means the deathstar bubbles aren't happening as much.

Both units benefit quite well from the troop aspect.

If the 30" Bolters are a thing and not just a special boltgun veriant for marine veterans...

We might just have the best basic troop choice in the whole game especially if we combine them with Orders like VH and buffs to their invs.

Dragonbeef4Life wrote:
Heavy Bolters:
-Mortifiers are now pretty tasty i think, when i had written them off before due to Grind them Down. 6 shots D2s that can assault and shoot them at 4s to hit is pretty amazing. You have a 60 pt threat that can down its equal in marines fairly efficiently while still being a threat into melee range. I still don't like that they don't benefit from much of the book, but their T5 5W durability is something of a consideration now with their offensive capacity
-Rets with HBs, though, at 100 pts flat pushing out 12 shots of D2 damage at 36" is suddenly a real threat when they can move and shoot without penalty as well. Cheaper than 2 Morts, while still getting SoF,SR,Miralce is rather nice
-BSS adding in a HB for 10 to hold on backfield may suddenly be worth it
-Heavy slot just got a lot more challenging if we see the meta having 2W targets, like confirmed SMs (including Chaos) are going, given things

Flamers:
-Rets having that increase to 16" range on the heavy flamers is pretty nice too, so they have a pretty good bump up. I doubt that anyone is charging into a Ret squad though for Overwatch to do anything there. They'd get shot long before then, or charged from out of line of sight.
-I think if hand flamers go up, their cost goes up to 5 even for Seraphim then. I don't see them being 2 pts still if they can shoot twice at excellent range with them. They're cheap to compete against the inferno, but with the melta rule buff, they won't complete even at 2 pts.
-I actually don't think flamers are really key to our victory at this point. While our lore says we bath things in flame to cleanse it, the output levels of flamers still leaves me wanting now in comparison to either the HB or MM for a few points more given that flamers only get ~1.5 shots more than a MM and .5 more than a HB yet still D1. The autohit is nice, but that really only matters in bulk and our ballistic skill is decent enough

Multi-meltas:
-Huge change for us I think. 20 points on a BSS squad being able to successfully take down a tank on their own with one (two shots is the real change up here, not the +2D). That makes kited out units for 75 pts holding objectives extremely deadly while backfield Rets can hold the advance.
-Immos are confirmed 145 beasts at this point. 4 shot MM transports with their HB to help clear around the obj on strategic reserves is a full fledged game changer for our deployment strategy. At PL 5, with a BSS at PL 4, 2 containers of these can be SR'd for 2 CP and really challenge a board edge. Or they start on board and can advance up the board getting the firepower from round 1. Lots of options
-Rets with pure MMs I'm not sure i'm sold on. 36" range with +1D is nice for a turn, but 2 CP for that still seems a challenge for that strat. Even +1 to hit for HBs, or rerolling w on flamers. 2 CP should have a significant impact, and i just don't see it.
-I also think regular melta guns for 10 pts now likely vanish for us as the 2 shot version for 10 pts ensures more direct killing potential for why we brought the meltas to begin with.

Powerswords make Zeph usable again across the board. The bonus with the pennant to charge will likely be huge if we can have it included with a useful ninja blender. Statistically, the powermaul is generally garbage unless we start seeing T6 melee targets being what they are fighting. And with axe being what it is for Legends, i feel like the powersword change is a great relative change for us here.

I see Storm Bolters decreasing in value a bit as they stay D1. While volume of fire is still great for us, i'd likely find the 10 for the HB now. And left over points likely would get filled with stormbolters as more an afterthought than what i want to arm them with upfront.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

A.T. wrote:

Purifying Tempest wrote:
It is Christmas time... though... poor Xenos. Way to get kicked when they're down.

Until the xenos updates come along anyway. This could be the first step in the game becoming much more lethal.

Its a bit rough as basically half the armies out there got rather massive weapon and wounds buffs, and the other half is left with wound buffs being teased and changes to weapons. Bit of a slap in the face to say "you have to wait for your codexes" when those haven't even been announced is demoralizing. you know for at least a few months you're going to have to face off against these buffed armies and there isn't much you can do.

Mortifiers were always really tasty. Mostly because I find we're desperately trying to trick our opponents into taking bring it rather than assasinate in VH and BR builds. Yes, focus the mortifier, ignore the beneficence canoness or the book imagifier, they don't mean you no harm no how .

HB Rets are definitely a real option but SoF and MD are irrelevant on a cheap, flat damage, high RoF squad. Divine guidance and order convictions are nice for sure though. Is it enough to overcome the mortifiers midboard control and strong melee output? Depends on the list.

Honestly probably the best option for a 10pt upgrade. Makes those 3 min squads you have to take for the battalion actually contribute.

Rets with Heavy flamers coming out of a rhino or immolator have a 25" threat range(+d6 if you're argent shroud). That's not bad for midboard objective sweeping.

I totally disagree about hand flamers. They could shoot 3 times and still not be worth 5 points. At 2pts and 12" range they MIGHT be a useful tech option for killing guard/eldar troops. Though I sincerely doubt it when you consider that that strategy is most effective with 10 girl units and 10girl deepstriking seraphim are pretty much dead both to their rather large footprint and heavy price bump.

Regular flamers still suck, agreed. Heavy flamers are at least usable now. Pengines might get to shoot occasionally.

I would rather have the HB than the MM on objective camping squads. Especially considering that the change to meltas may well result in less vehicles total. Also, single shot weapons have a notorious failure rate.

MM immos are definitely looking like a compelling option, especially considering they're the tank we can blow up on purpose.

MM rets are gonna be our big damage nukes. Don't forget that that strat also gives plus one damage. With 4 of them either in a 10 girl in cover or in a vehicle with a couple of ablative bodies, you can basically guarantee 12 shots at an 18" melta range. It's like bringing 2 units of better eradicators all of a sudden. You can also outflank them and a canoness for 1 CP and come in and waste the hell out 2, maybe even 3 vehicles. They're honestly pretty nuts now.

I sincerely doubt regular meltas are going away. You'll probably see people actually put a heavy weapon into the heavy weapon slot, but that doesn't mean a combi-melta or a regular melta gun isn't still a great option. With a huge number of the models in the game now getting extra wounds, there's going to be a bigger premium on multi wound damage than ever. Maybe not every unit gets 40pts of gun upgrades, but plenty are. Especially considering that bolters are completely useless.

I still wouldn't take zephyrim outside of BR. I'm much more likely to take them IN BR though. I never particularly valued the pennant. Most of my charges are guaranteed and I pretty much always use zephyrim on flanks so the bubble just doesn't do anything for me.

The bonus to the Powermaul isn't as big as the bonus to the powersword but it is still better than the sword against things like bikes and mortifiers and it's now doubling out guardsman and sisters. It's still a perfectly legit option for bloody rose, though the powersword goes from being unusable garbage to our baseline weapon.

I agree stormbolters really go down here. they're basically dominions only at this point. Blessed bolts did get a lot better as a result of all the wound increases.

ERJAK wrote:

I totally disagree about hand flamers. They could shoot 3 times and still not be worth 5 points. At 2pts and 12" range they MIGHT be a useful tech option for killing guard/eldar troops. Though I sincerely doubt it when you consider that that strategy is most effective with 10 girl units and 10girl deepstriking seraphim are pretty much dead both to their rather large footprint and heavy price bump.

I would rather have the HB than the MM on objective camping squads. Especially considering that the change to meltas may well result in less vehicles total. Also, single shot weapons have a notorious failure rate.

MM rets are gonna be our big damage nukes. Don't forget that that strat also gives plus one damage. With 4 of them either in a 10 girl in cover or in a vehicle with a couple of ablative bodies, you can basically guarantee 12 shots at an 18" melta range. It's like bringing 2 units of better eradicators all of a sudden. You can also outflank them and a canoness for 1 CP and come in and waste the hell out 2, maybe even 3 vehicles. They're honestly pretty nuts now.

I sincerely doubt regular meltas are going away. You'll probably see people actually put a heavy weapon into the heavy weapon slot, but that doesn't mean a combi-melta or a regular melta gun isn't still a great option. With a huge number of the models in the game now getting extra wounds, there's going to be a bigger premium on multi wound damage than ever. Maybe not every unit gets 40pts of gun upgrades, but plenty are. Especially considering that bolters are completely useless.

I still wouldn't take zephyrim outside of BR. I'm much more likely to take them IN BR though. I never particularly valued the pennant. Most of my charges are guaranteed and I pretty much always use zephyrim on flanks so the bubble just doesn't do anything for me.

I think we actually agree on hand flamers. I don't think that they are good, esp as they might increase in price if they go up in range. You have to take too much to make them effective and 200 pts in one seraphim squad for some hand flamer usage isn't a good trade off.

The HB vs MM is quite possible on obj squads. If the shift is to lots of infantry and less of the vehicle, HBs take a huge boost. At S5, though, if there is armor on the board, you're still having a hard time penetrating with 5s to wound and only -1AP. It drops off quickly. The benefit to the front line having the MMs is that their punch range is pushed forward, and HBs can likely stay in back with their 36" range and still hold well while contributing. Keep in mind, MMs are now 2 shots each, so no longer the worry of the one shot fail. The likelihood of failing both MMs is now only 11% vs 33% for 1 shot, or 25% vs 50% resepctively if the BSS moved (and without reroll 1s from a Canoness). Effectively better than double than what is was before.

Fair point on the +1D. At half range, that is a threat of 8 MM shots with 4-10 damage (with miracle buff) per hit at 18 and 2-7 at 18.1-36. I'm still hard pressed to think that is worth 2 CP, but suppose if you need to guarantee that blowout early T2, its a good way to make it happen. Fully agreed on the reserves portion. But likely, that will be the 2 Immos for me with BSS squad for capping (which i also like for the auto explode now as you point out). It really forces them to be extremely wary of those transports just in general.

My only thing with meltas is that for 10 points, you get half the shots and half the range at half the cost. I suppose there could be room there, but I'd find another 10 for a full MM, or drop them having the melta period or use the 10 for a HB somewhere that could still pump out 6 wounds on multiple targets potentially. Just seems for the point cost, the alternates are now a little better than having a melta on a squad girl.

The pennant i like because of its aura. I don't think its useful for them on the drop alone. But you throw them within 6 of a Rep squad that needs to make it, and you can likely ensure the Rep get where they need while then using the miracle you were going to throw there into the Zeph for a different target. For 5 points, the aura is great to avoid having to worry about charge targets with other units. Even with the flank charge, unless you're screening the other side to your Reps, you can drop them where they are still side screening. I rarely find myself actually dropping them backfield (though the discussion on Deploy Scanners is still a viable discussion here). What i've mainly heard from SoB players is the pennant isn't needed on them, but i find that bubble is 100% amazing when you think of it as a means of ensuring the Celestials or Reps make it where they need to.

The October FAQ contains point updates for MFM, before seeing the new point costs it is hard to say what will be good and what not, but our meltas are surely going to gain some teeth.

Spoletta wrote:
The October FAQ contains point updates for MFM, before seeing the new point costs it is hard to say what will be good and what not, but our meltas are surely going to gain some teeth.

Are we certain of that? The fact they adjusted points in MFM in preparation for the releases happening leads me to believe that current points make sense for the changes

Dragonbeef4Life wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
The October FAQ contains point updates for MFM, before seeing the new point costs it is hard to say what will be good and what not, but our meltas are surely going to gain some teeth.

Are we certain of that? The fact they adjusted points in MFM in preparation for the releases happening leads me to believe that current points make sense for the changes

We are certain of that, or do you really expect CSM to go to 2 wounds without point adjustments?

Spoletta wrote:

Dragonbeef4Life wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
The October FAQ contains point updates for MFM, before seeing the new point costs it is hard to say what will be good and what not, but our meltas are surely going to gain some teeth.

Are we certain of that? The fact they adjusted points in MFM in preparation for the releases happening leads me to believe that current points make sense for the changes

We are certain of that, or do you really expect CSM to go to 2 wounds without point adjustments?

Oh, i'm sure the codex will change the SM cost, as they even showed that Tac version goes from 15 to 18 (20%). But if you read, the changes to the Chaos SMs or others (DG/TS) will be done in each of their own codex releases and must wait.

I doubt they'll update MFM because its a Codex change post MFM release. Nothing in the notice indicates that the points outside of the Codex update would be changed, and simply indicates the Imperium would have the stat lines of the weapon update with the SM codex.They already adjusted the points with MFM to start between Infantry and Vehicle.

Hmm, re-reading it you may be right. I had understood that the changes to all flavor of marines (loyal and spiky) were coming immediately, but it doesn't look like so.