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I’ve been crunching numbers and wondering why Mortifiers and Penitent Engines aren't seen as competitive. I realize auras set Sisters apart but those auras (in the form of characters) cost points AND limit freedom of movement.

If we compare a full 12 Mortifiers and 12 Penitent Engines, at 1320 points, is also 120 wounds. Interestingly enough, 1320 points of base Battle Sisters with no upgrades is 120 wounds, that’s 12 squads of 10 Sisters each.
But if we compare the differences we get:

Battle Sisters: 120w, 1320 points or 11 ppw, 120 bolters, 6M, T3 /3+ /6++

Pen/Morts: 120w, 1320 points or 11 ppw, 24 HB, 24 HF, 360 flail attacks, 7-9M, T5 /4+ /5+++ or 6+++

Sure, the “crazies” don’t get aura buffs, but I think they make up for it with increased T, FNP rolls, increased speed and high strength weapons, in addition not needing to be under some aura range, in addition to the added costs of those aura buff characters. (Note: Celestine does give them a 6++ but that’s a minor buff).

The crazies are excellent at countering hordes and T5 or less type units.

As an experiment I worked on a list that needs minimal buffs and where instead of a Bloody Rose detachment I just substitute in the “crazies” as my version of Bloody Rose. Instead I concentrated on VH with meltas to give me the high-end killing power I need for T6+.


Valorous Heart [6+++, Ignore AP-1 weapons]
Spearhead detachment (-3 CP)
Sacred Rite: Destroyed model makes one last attack on a 5+

Canoness, plasma pistol, power sword, Rod (+3”)
WL Imagifier [Stoic/ +1 Inv / BoSL]
(3x) 5 Battle Sisters, 1x c-melta, 2x melta
(1x) 5 Celestians, 1x c-melta, 2x melta, cherub
(2x) 5 Dominions, 1x c-melta, 4x melta (scouts)
(3x) 4 Mortifiers, HBs and flails (4+/6+++)
(3x) 4 Pengines, HFs and flails (4+/5+++)

2000 pts
9 CP to start / 14 units


To me this list is more points efficient, mobile, and resilient, and can toe the line vs both New-Marines as well as hordes. It easily gives up Bring it Down but I’m willing to give those 15VP for all the efficiencies it has.

Repentance Machines are definitely a competitive option, but there's a lot vehicles don't do, while giving max secondary points away


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Plus, there in an awkward spot where almost all optional weapons are worth shooting at them

Lammia wrote:
Repentance Machines are definitely a competitive option, but there's a lot vehicles don't do, while giving max secondary points away


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Plus, there in an awkward spot where almost all optional weapons are worth shooting at them

I haven't found any decent lists that don't give up secondary kill objectives. Assassinate being the most common given how reliant this army is on its auras. Is there a good list acceptable to full on avoid giving up points on these kill secondaries, or is it more likely that we'll be giving up one anyway to ignore it and play your game on the table instead of in list building?

Lemondish wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Repentance Machines are definitely a competitive option, but there's a lot vehicles don't do, while giving max secondary points away


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Plus, there in an awkward spot where almost all optional weapons are worth shooting at them

I haven't found any decent lists that don't give up secondary kill objectives. Assassinate being the most common given how reliant this army is on its auras. Is there a good list acceptable to full on avoid giving up points on these kill secondaries, or is it more likely that we'll be giving up one anyway to ignore it and play your game on the table instead of in list building?

The list building gane to play is, imo is the Guard approach to kill secondaries. I.e. you *could* take any of these, but which is going to score best over the game. As opposed to 'here's 15 VP for showing up.' A problem compounded by the fact that there are no weapons that are wasted by directing them at Pen. Engines/Mortifiers.

They also don't need any special rules because they don't benefit from any special rules, which seems like a bit of a waste...

Mortifiers don't look bad at all actually. They're reasonably cheap, have decent firepower with 6 HB shots each and a nice punch in combat. They also provide redundancy to the tanks, and are allowed in squadrons. I don't think they need lots of buffs to work.

I think I'd always consider them in a non bloody rose army as I wouldn't bring repentia outside the melee oriented order and arcoflagellants would be the only reasonable melee option in the entire codex to compete with those dreads.

Per WarCom, hand flamers are going up to 12" range along with flamers and heavy flamers. I still think inferno pistols are better, but Deadly Descent Seraphim with hand flamers just got a lot jucier.

 Blackie wrote:
Mortifiers don't look bad at all actually. They're reasonably cheap, have decent firepower with 6 HB shots each and a nice punch in combat. They also provide redundancy to the tanks, and are allowed in squadrons. I don't think they need lots of buffs to work.

I think I'd always consider them in a non bloody rose army as I wouldn't bring repentia outside the melee oriented order and arcoflagellants would be the only reasonable melee option in the entire codex to compete with those dreads.

Mortifiers are great, people just generally don't run mono sisters when repentia bombs plus marines have such strong synergy.


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Lammia wrote:
Repentance Machines are definitely a competitive option, but there's a lot vehicles don't do, while giving max secondary points away


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Plus, there in an awkward spot where almost all optional weapons are worth shooting at them

I pray they take bring it down. So long as they don't take assadsinate I'm golden.


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 davidgr33n wrote:
I’ve been crunching numbers and wondering why Mortifiers and Penitent Engines aren't seen as competitive. I realize auras set Sisters apart but those auras (in the form of characters) cost points AND limit freedom of movement.

If we compare a full 12 Mortifiers and 12 Penitent Engines, at 1320 points, is also 120 wounds. Interestingly enough, 1320 points of base Battle Sisters with no upgrades is 120 wounds, that’s 12 squads of 10 Sisters each.
But if we compare the differences we get:

Battle Sisters: 120w, 1320 points or 11 ppw, 120 bolters, 6M, T3 /3+ /6++

Pen/Morts: 120w, 1320 points or 11 ppw, 24 HB, 24 HF, 360 flail attacks, 7-9M, T5 /4+ /5+++ or 6+++

Sure, the “crazies” don’t get aura buffs, but I think they make up for it with increased T, FNP rolls, increased speed and high strength weapons, in addition not needing to be under some aura range, in addition to the added costs of those aura buff characters. (Note: Celestine does give them a 6++ but that’s a minor buff).

The crazies are excellent at countering hordes and T5 or less type units.

As an experiment I worked on a list that needs minimal buffs and where instead of a Bloody Rose detachment I just substitute in the “crazies” as my version of Bloody Rose. Instead I concentrated on VH with meltas to give me the high-end killing power I need for T6+.


Valorous Heart [6+++, Ignore AP-1 weapons]
Spearhead detachment (-3 CP)
Sacred Rite: Destroyed model makes one last attack on a 5+

Canoness, plasma pistol, power sword, Rod (+3”)
WL Imagifier [Stoic/ +1 Inv / BoSL]
(3x) 5 Battle Sisters, 1x c-melta, 2x melta
(1x) 5 Celestians, 1x c-melta, 2x melta, cherub
(2x) 5 Dominions, 1x c-melta, 4x melta (scouts)
(3x) 4 Mortifiers, HBs and flails (4+/6+++)
(3x) 4 Pengines, HFs and flails (4+/5+++)

2000 pts
9 CP to start / 14 units


To me this list is more points efficient, mobile, and resilient, and can toe the line vs both New-Marines as well as hordes. It easily gives up Bring it Down but I’m willing to give those 15VP for all the efficiencies it has.

I wouldn't take 4s of morties or pengines because at that point you're risking attrition losses which can be brutal.

Taikishi wrote:
Per WarCom, hand flamers are going up to 12" range along with flamers and heavy flamers. I still think inferno pistols are better, but Deadly Descent Seraphim with hand flamers just got a lot jucier.

"Ahh, yeah!" You will finally get to shot both times with Hand Flamers on Deadly Descent.

This also answers that MFM question of "why are Hand Flamers 5 points?".

ERJAK wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Mortifiers don't look bad at all actually. They're reasonably cheap, have decent firepower with 6 HB shots each and a nice punch in combat. They also provide redundancy to the tanks, and are allowed in squadrons. I don't think they need lots of buffs to work.

I think I'd always consider them in a non bloody rose army as I wouldn't bring repentia outside the melee oriented order and arcoflagellants would be the only reasonable melee option in the entire codex to compete with those dreads.

Mortifiers are great, people just generally don't run mono sisters when repentia bombs plus marines have such strong synergy.


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Lammia wrote:
Repentance Machines are definitely a competitive option, but there's a lot vehicles don't do, while giving max secondary points away


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Plus, there in an awkward spot where almost all optional weapons are worth shooting at them

I pray they take bring it down. So long as they don't take assadsinate I'm golden.


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 davidgr33n wrote:
I’ve been crunching numbers and wondering why Mortifiers and Penitent Engines aren't seen as competitive. I realize auras set Sisters apart but those auras (in the form of characters) cost points AND limit freedom of movement.

If we compare a full 12 Mortifiers and 12 Penitent Engines, at 1320 points, is also 120 wounds. Interestingly enough, 1320 points of base Battle Sisters with no upgrades is 120 wounds, that’s 12 squads of 10 Sisters each.
But if we compare the differences we get:

Battle Sisters: 120w, 1320 points or 11 ppw, 120 bolters, 6M, T3 /3+ /6++

Pen/Morts: 120w, 1320 points or 11 ppw, 24 HB, 24 HF, 360 flail attacks, 7-9M, T5 /4+ /5+++ or 6+++

Sure, the “crazies” don’t get aura buffs, but I think they make up for it with increased T, FNP rolls, increased speed and high strength weapons, in addition not needing to be under some aura range, in addition to the added costs of those aura buff characters. (Note: Celestine does give them a 6++ but that’s a minor buff).

The crazies are excellent at countering hordes and T5 or less type units.

As an experiment I worked on a list that needs minimal buffs and where instead of a Bloody Rose detachment I just substitute in the “crazies” as my version of Bloody Rose. Instead I concentrated on VH with meltas to give me the high-end killing power I need for T6+.


Valorous Heart [6+++, Ignore AP-1 weapons]
Spearhead detachment (-3 CP)
Sacred Rite: Destroyed model makes one last attack on a 5+

Canoness, plasma pistol, power sword, Rod (+3”)
WL Imagifier [Stoic/ +1 Inv / BoSL]
(3x) 5 Battle Sisters, 1x c-melta, 2x melta
(1x) 5 Celestians, 1x c-melta, 2x melta, cherub
(2x) 5 Dominions, 1x c-melta, 4x melta (scouts)
(3x) 4 Mortifiers, HBs and flails (4+/6+++)
(3x) 4 Pengines, HFs and flails (4+/5+++)

2000 pts
9 CP to start / 14 units


To me this list is more points efficient, mobile, and resilient, and can toe the line vs both New-Marines as well as hordes. It easily gives up Bring it Down but I’m willing to give those 15VP for all the efficiencies it has.

I wouldn't take 4s of morties or pengines because at that point you're risking attrition losses which can be brutal.

What attrition losses, the whole army has 14 units which is much less than most Sister builds, in addition thats 20x T5 /4++/5+++ wounds you’d have to chew through before killing one unit.

And if you’re referring to morale, the opponent would have to kill 3 and stop there, then I’d have to roll a 6 to lose that model. On the off chance they do stop at 3 and it’s a critical model I’ll just use the Insane Bravery stratagem.

So which secondaries are generally best for us?



Also for rites, do we have to post our rites with our army list or can we declare it after we see our opponent's army? Same question for imagifier?



Also for BR, do we run MSU BSS or 10-15 sized ones?

Also, should we run rhinos or immolaters carrying 6 retributers with 4x MM and combi-melta?



Also is celestine worth the points? I feel like she is just a glorified babysitter for her aura most of the time.



Also, should we just take 1 brigage or a combination of battalion and patrol for detachments? I feel we burn 3 CP's just from our list (relic, heroine and veteran strategums) before battle. Burning more CP's seem risky especially when you need to use seraphim and retributor strategums constantly.

kiron wrote:
So which secondaries are generally best for us?



Also for rites, do we have to post our rites with our army list or can we declare it after we see our opponent's army? Same question for imagifier?



Also for BR, do we run MSU BSS or 10-15 sized ones?

Also, should we run rhinos or immolaters carrying 6 retributers with 4x MM and combi-melta?



Also is celestine worth the points? I feel like she is just a glorified babysitter for her aura most of the time.



Also, should we just take 1 brigage or a combination of battalion and patrol for detachments? I feel we burn 3 CP's just from our list (relic, heroine and veteran strategums) before battle. Burning more CP's seem risky especially when you need to use seraphim and retributor strategums constantly.

I think my default secondaries will be Engage on all Fronts, Raise the Banner, and whatever destroy objective looks easiest to score well.

You don't choose or roll Sacred Rites until you know what your facing. You also get to know what you're facing before choosing Tale(s), but you generally plan what tale you'll use in list building; It's something that you tie into Order Conviction.

BR runs MSU BSS(more than any other order). Battle sisters are ObSec/action fodder for BR(and everyone else), save those points for more Elites.

Depends. But probably Rhino for that.

Saint C is notably overpriced, but still very pretty.

Detachments are a personal choice depending on how you're building. But we still *are* a CP hungry army.

So what has everyone been using for those had a battle sanctum.



I loaded 2 squads of 10 retributers on it within 6" of my cannoness and imagifier and celestian squad for VH order. I also kept Celestine behind the sanctum for counter charging. I put the sanctum smack right in the middle of the map as close as possible to middle objective while still in my deployment zone so my retributers are in range of everything. I keep a screen of battle sister squad in front to soak up melee and prevent charges. Have two floors helps retributors get firing view over my units to hit pretty much anywhere on the board given it's only 60"x44".



Furthermore, what's the rules for LOS for top level models over containers. from an angle they would seem to be able to see the enemy models hiding behind the container. Can they shoot or are they LOS blocked?



Also how does flyers charge the battle sanctum when all space is blocked?



How does melee work if all 3 floors are fully occupied, fight through each floor first? Does heroic intervention work for a character on a 2nd floor rushing to either first or third floor (physical space permitting or not? are the answers different?)



Also do you have to exactly match the battle sanctum kit or can you modify it a bit such that the floors have more/less room to put models?



Also, when is the battle sanctum set up? Had lots of arguments with some opponents. One stated it was before both sides chooses deployment sides. One stated it was before first player was chosen, was set up prior to objectives being placed, etc...

I was toying with the idea of splitting the multimeltas: instead of bringing 4 in a single retributors squad, what about bringing just two (with 2 cherubs) and giving the other two to 10 man squads of battle sisters with a simulacrum imperialis?

This way eggs wouldn't be in the same basket, and multimeltas in the battle sisters squads can benefit from the banners. If I also keep a cheap canoness to the back field with a 9'' inch bubble they could even re-roll 1s. That canoness wouldn't be a bad choice since it can give the aura to a couple of Exorcists and a couple of max squads of sisters but it would be also the model with Beacon of Faith and Litanies of Faith, on the board since turn 1.

In my current list I have Celestine with Beacon of Faith and a canoness with Beneficence inside a tank while Litanies is on an Imagifier also inside a tank, with repentias. I would drop Celestine to add that second canoness.


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kiron wrote:

Also for rites, do we have to post our rites with our army list or can we declare it after we see our opponent's army? Same question for imagifier?

Hand of the Emperor is the go-to for Bloody Rose, eventually also The Passion could be good. I'd go for Diving Guidance for more shooting oriented lists.

Imagifier with Tale of the Warrior if she's supporting Repentias or Tale of the Stoic if she's buffing footslogging Battle sisters and all their specialist equivalents. I would take both Litanies by using the stratagem if the army is Bloody Rose, I have some sort of castle and I'm keeping a squad of Repentias near it.

kiron wrote:

Also, when is the battle sanctum set up? Had lots of arguments with some opponents. One stated it was before both sides chooses deployment sides. One stated it was before first player was chosen, was set up prior to objectives being placed, etc...

It's deployed with the rest of your army, as part of your army. It can't be set up in reserves though.

 Blackie wrote:
I was toying with the idea of splitting the multimeltas: instead of bringing 4 in a single retributors squad, what about bringing just two (with 2 cherubs) and giving the other two to 10 man squads of battle sisters with a simulacrum imperialis?

This way eggs wouldn't be in the same basket, and multimeltas in the battle sisters squads can benefit from the banners. If I also keep a cheap canoness to the back field with a 9'' inch bubble they could even re-roll 1s. That canoness wouldn't be a bad choice since it can give the aura to a couple of Exorcists and a couple of max squads of sisters but it would be also the model with Beacon of Faith and Litanies of Faith, on the board since turn 1.

In my current list I have Celestine with Beacon of Faith and a canoness with Beneficence inside a tank while Litanies is on an Imagifier also inside a tank, with repentias. I would drop Celestine to add that second canoness.


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kiron wrote:

Also for rites, do we have to post our rites with our army list or can we declare it after we see our opponent's army? Same question for imagifier?

Hand of the Emperor is the go-to for Bloody Rose, eventually also The Passion could be good. I'd go for Diving Guidance for more shooting oriented lists.

Imagifier with Tale of the Warrior if she's supporting Repentias or Tale of the Stoic if she's buffing footslogging Battle sisters and all their specialist equivalents. I would take both Litanies by using the stratagem if the army is Bloody Rose, I have some sort of castle and I'm keeping a squad of Repentias near it.

I personally find hand to be overrated, ESPECIALLY if you have decent MD generation tools. You should be guaranteeing the majority of charges anyway. The passion on the otherhand has been consistently amazing for me.

kiron wrote:
Furthermore, what's the rules for LOS for top level models over containers. from an angle they would seem to be able to see the enemy models hiding behind the container. Can they shoot or are they LOS blocked?

if i'm understanding the questions, you're asking if models on containers can shoot models they still see behind the container? Yes, as true line of sight to any part of the model still would drive the ability to shoot it in that scenario, so they should be able to shoot them.

kiron wrote:
Also how does flyers charge the battle sanctum when all space is blocked?

The battle sanctum is an area terrain piece once placed. it cannot itself be charged. it is also only breachable, so the only models able to move thru it are infantry, beasts, and swarms. So it would have to charge the models in the sanctum from the open area in which case regular rules apply. If they are charging onto the higher levels, they need to have the charge distance to make it up within 5" vertically to reach them since fly does not assist height in charges any longer.

kiron wrote:
How does melee work if all 3 floors are fully occupied, fight through each floor first? Does heroic intervention work for a character on a 2nd floor rushing to either first or third floor (physical space permitting or not? are the answers different?)

Your range is 3" horizontally and 5" vertically. any target is eligible as it is within engagement range of that. Keep in mind, declared charge targets still need to be declared in order to successfully make the charge putting them in place with multi-level models. Heroic intervention works the same way as normal, as it requires you to be within the 3"x5" bubble to move. Assuming you're in the 3" horizontally, the 2nd floor would allow you to be within 5" of both bottom and top floor. A reminder that while the vertical space allows melee combat, you still must have true line of sight if you wish to shoot pistols at targets engaged on different floors with the 5" height.

kiron wrote:
Also do you have to exactly match the battle sanctum kit or can you modify it a bit such that the floors have more/less room to put models?

You cannot model for advantage, so it must match the kit to be match eligible as the model. The one thing the kit does not actually stipulate is exactly where the angel statue goes as it is depicted in various places both on and around the sanctum. Discuss with your opponent or TO if there are specific way of putting this in place. For my personal play with it, I either put it on the top floor if I need the ground space to meet the setup requirement, or I place it within 6" of the walls so it is still near the main building like a statue would be.


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ERJAK wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
I was toying with the idea of splitting the multimeltas: instead of bringing 4 in a single retributors squad, what about bringing just two (with 2 cherubs) and giving the other two to 10 man squads of battle sisters with a simulacrum imperialis?

This way eggs wouldn't be in the same basket, and multimeltas in the battle sisters squads can benefit from the banners. If I also keep a cheap canoness to the back field with a 9'' inch bubble they could even re-roll 1s. That canoness wouldn't be a bad choice since it can give the aura to a couple of Exorcists and a couple of max squads of sisters but it would be also the model with Beacon of Faith and Litanies of Faith, on the board since turn 1.

In my current list I have Celestine with Beacon of Faith and a canoness with Beneficence inside a tank while Litanies is on an Imagifier also inside a tank, with repentias. I would drop Celestine to add that second canoness.


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kiron wrote:

Also for rites, do we have to post our rites with our army list or can we declare it after we see our opponent's army? Same question for imagifier?

Hand of the Emperor is the go-to for Bloody Rose, eventually also The Passion could be good. I'd go for Diving Guidance for more shooting oriented lists.

Imagifier with Tale of the Warrior if she's supporting Repentias or Tale of the Stoic if she's buffing footslogging Battle sisters and all their specialist equivalents. I would take both Litanies by using the stratagem if the army is Bloody Rose, I have some sort of castle and I'm keeping a squad of Repentias near it.

I personally find hand to be overrated, ESPECIALLY if you have decent MD generation tools. You should be guaranteeing the majority of charges anyway. The passion on the otherhand has been consistently amazing for me.

I'm torn here. I have seen Hand make amazing play against me on a mirror match: 6"+7" advance +13" charge was used on me turn one (yes, they had amazing miracle dice). but that was a 26" movement charge T1 with their repentia when i thought i was safe slightly behind the line. Now, are you always going to get that? 99% no. But that +1" in both adv and charge does add up for a lot of mobility when you need to burst move T1 into cover and then charge out T2 even without such great miracle dice. I have now played it a few times to great usage since it also helps Zeph drops with rerolls get that 8" they need, making you 66% likely to land the charge with reroll than the 46% without it. that 20% bonus is fairly significant. I'd say it depends on what you play and how effective the terrain is at allowing the charges. Without breachable, Hand goes way up in my opinion as you can only use the MD on limited units more than once per phase, and the fact that much of my army wants to be in melee usually means I like the additional 1".

But i do love the stopping power of Passion once you actually get into combat. Exploding 6s is devastating on repentia, canonesses, and soon to be Zeph with the power sword changes. If the board allows a more melee heavy movement that doesn't prohibit good charges, i agree with Erjak that i'd prefer Passion over hand if the terrain allows the easier charges. At that point, your rite is then relatively useless if you're able to make most charges successfully anyways.

In short, i think board state and what units you have play into which rite is more successful than just a default one or the other in list building.

You can't charge from 13" away without an ability that allows it (see: Jain-Zar). Page 19 of the core rules says you must be within 12" of the opposing unit to charge. Hand of the Emperor doesn't allow it, it just makes your odds of passing a 12" charge from 1 in 12 to 1 in 6; a charge of 13 or 14" is illegal despite being mathematically possible.

Taikishi wrote:
You can't charge from 13" away without an ability that allows it (see: Jain-Zar). Page 19 of the core rules says you must be within 12" of the opposing unit to charge. Hand of the Emperor doesn't allow it, it just makes your odds of passing a 12" charge from 1 in 12 to 1 in 6; a charge of 13 or 14" is illegal despite being mathematically possible.

Yes, should have clarified. I was just shy of 1" behind the line to, what i thought, prevent the charge with great rolls or MD. The 13" movement is still allowed, but you just can't declare it outside of 12". I was just in 12", like 11.8, so the charge was legal. But he got most of his squad in with the additional 1" and 3" pile in when I thought myself safe. The fact is that the 7" advance made the 13" regular move possible for the 12" charge.

In a world of terrain that isn't breachable, that additional 1" charge, or if you adv + charge with holy rage strat, gives you a very effective boost to your BR.

Hi Everyone,

New 40k player here. I just bought a painted sister army off Ebay for 860 pounds incl. shipping/import fee (feel a bit overpaid, but of well).

Yeah, i do not have time to paint with my job and being a new father (don't judge).

Not sure what I should build with it. I feel the engines are not that great given lack of other mech targets for AT. Is there enough models for a decent 2000 point list? After reading these posts and the codex, feels like it would be a VH foot slogging list with a BR detachment for flyers and repentia.




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Ooops, here is the link

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sisters-of-Battle-army-124-models-all-commission-painted-classic-OOP-metal-/303567707871?_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l10137&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true

Hi guys,

After the weapons stats changes I'm very convinced of putting 1 unit of 10 x Retributors with 4 x MM in my lists, and I need an advice. What is the most optimal way to deploy them?

Inside a Rhino? Other vehicle? By foot? Strategic Reserves?

Thanks in advance.

kl1ff wrote:
Hi guys,

After the weapons stats changes I'm very convinced of putting 1 unit of 10 x Retributors with 4 x MM in my lists, and I need an advice. What is the most optimal way to deploy them?

Inside a Rhino? Other vehicle? By foot? Strategic Reserves?

Thanks in advance.

Reserves is expensive. If you're running them as a 10 model squad, foot is best

If you play VH they are ok on foot, with an Imagifier nearby to reduce AP against them even further and probably a canoness nearby for re-rollin 1s. Embarking them in a rhino is a solid alternative if you have multiple vehicles that are actually a threat like a couple of bloody rose transports full of repentias.

I'd skip strategic reserves, with a vehicle or the buffs from VH plus the extra bodies you should be able to save your MM if you go second.

 Blackie wrote:
If you play VH they are ok on foot, with an Imagifier nearby to reduce AP against them even further and probably a canoness nearby for re-rollin 1s. Embarking them in a rhino is a solid alternative if you have multiple vehicles that are actually a threat like a couple of bloody rose transports full of repentias.

I'd skip strategic reserves, with a vehicle or the buffs from VH plus the extra bodies you should be able to save your MM if you go second.

Teey should be hiding out of LoS t1 until the pop out with the and with the help of 2 Cherubs, melt something important. You could even try sticking a Hospitaller next to the bolters and keep them hidden in cover, so you can get Melta back for later...

Lammia wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
If you play VH they are ok on foot, with an Imagifier nearby to reduce AP against them even further and probably a canoness nearby for re-rollin 1s. Embarking them in a rhino is a solid alternative if you have multiple vehicles that are actually a threat like a couple of bloody rose transports full of repentias.

I'd skip strategic reserves, with a vehicle or the buffs from VH plus the extra bodies you should be able to save your MM if you go second.

Teey should be hiding out of LoS t1 until the pop out with the and with the help of 2 Cherubs, melt something important. You could even try sticking a Hospitaller next to the bolters and keep them hidden in cover, so you can get Melta back for later...

If you're familiar enough with your opponent's army to guarantee that won't be seeing any significant AP-3, you should put them front and center in cover and taunt your opponent into shooting them. You have 6 wounds that don't matter (seven with a hospitaller near by) that's 36 WOUNDS they'd have to deal on average to have a meaningful impact on your army. Imagine they spent all of their Anti-infantry killing your 6 chaff models and left the majority of your foot troopers unhurt.

ERJAK wrote:

Lammia wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
If you play VH they are ok on foot, with an Imagifier nearby to reduce AP against them even further and probably a canoness nearby for re-rollin 1s. Embarking them in a rhino is a solid alternative if you have multiple vehicles that are actually a threat like a couple of bloody rose transports full of repentias.

I'd skip strategic reserves, with a vehicle or the buffs from VH plus the extra bodies you should be able to save your MM if you go second.

Teey should be hiding out of LoS t1 until the pop out with the and with the help of 2 Cherubs, melt something important. You could even try sticking a Hospitaller next to the bolters and keep them hidden in cover, so you can get Melta back for later...

If you're familiar enough with your opponent's army to guarantee that won't be seeing any significant AP-3, you should put them front and center in cover and taunt your opponent into shooting them. You have 6 wounds that don't matter (seven with a hospitaller near by) that's 36 WOUNDS they'd have to deal on average to have a meaningful impact on your army. Imagine they spent all of their Anti-infantry killing your 6 chaff models and left the majority of your foot troopers unhurt.

Sure, I wouldn't risk the moral losses or the Blast temptation. But you could do that too.

The benefit, and where SR really shines with MM Rets, is that you have a threat coming from either board edge with a roughly 30" range from that board edge to shoot that can't be shot at at all until it comes on. That gives you basically most of the board in threat range to suddenly pull out 8 MM shots (sans cherubs), and as half range is 12", you can get within half immediately for the +2 dam. Toss in Storm, and you have a massive threat anywhere you want basically with a high likelihood of high damage. While SR is indeed more CP out the door, I do think it is well spent with them and you save points on the ablative girls not being needed if you don't want. There is a psychological element here to the fact that literally nothing on the board is safe from the edges and they'd have to play the middle/behind obs to edges to protect themselves. Its as much a way to play board control for 1 CP on them as it is ensuring they shoot.

Also a bit why our conversation a month ago on the MM Immolator coming out of reserves with the girls inside is also such a threat. SR is a fantastic way to play threats as much as board presence.

Are you sure you don't mean Argent Shroud? Sacred Rose never loses more than 1 model to morale, hits on 5s from overwatch, and gains a miracle die after an Act of Faith on a 5+. Argent Shroud can fire weapons after advancing as if they'd moved without advancing.

They mean SR as in Strategic Reserves, not Sacred Rose

Hi guys, I was wondering about power axes on our superiors instead of power swords given bloody rose. The new axe gives +2 str for that sweet 3+ wounding normal marines, ork boyz and 4+ wounding gravis dudes. As Bloody Rose those axes are also -3.

 Kithail wrote:
Hi guys, I was wondering about power axes on our superiors instead of power swords given bloody rose. The new axe gives +2 str for that sweet 3+ wounding normal marines, ork boyz and 4+ wounding gravis dudes. As Bloody Rose those axes are also -3.

I don't think we can take power axes, they aren't listed in the current codex, though Power Mauls are going up to +3 str. Guessing Power Sword is still the superior option on Marines due to the +1 str and -3 ap.

Anyone see much of an impact with the auras change? Likely won't have Imagifiers babysitting Exorcists in the back anymore, and Canoness will take a hit since they won't benefit from their own or other auras; other than that, I think most of our "auras" all target specific units, so should leave us relatively unscathed.