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Pretty sure that 6 model Dominion squad is not legal. Only 4 special weapons available, yeah?

• Up to 4 Dominions can be equipped with 1 weapon from the Special Weapons list instead of 1 boltgun.

Sh*t, you are right friend. I will update my list according to this. Thanks.

 MacPhail wrote:
I hope that two new characters and a new battle tank suggest some real redevelopment of the army for the 9th codex and not just tacking on some new kits to sell. Am I wrong to hope for a revision of some Order Convictions, Sacred Rites, and Warlord Traits to make other combos more playable? Maybe some way to generate mortal wounds? Something to target characters?

Nope, round of nerfs to things the internet whined about and a handful of new kits that do nothing interesting for 30-50% more points than they should cost.

Then we wait until 10th to hope we get forgotten about enough to have a good book again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vilgeir wrote:

 Therion wrote:
Looks like Exorcist was nerfed to T7. At least Exorcist and Triumph stats (attacks down to 10) are leaked on Reddit (the box datasheet scans).

For the Triumph, those missing 4 attacks are probably just the way the full data sheet handles the Marty's Sword.

And not only was the Exorcist dropped to T7, but it also lost a wound and is down -1 Str (lol). The Exorcist launcher also lost some AP, going from -3 to -2. Conflagration rockets are +1 damage now, though.

Given all these changes and more, the thread seems pretty hopeful that this new statline portends that it will shift in roles to artillery and be able to shoot out of LoS. At 195 points and the Castigator set to fill the MBT role, I will dare hope.

T7 Ap-2 for 195pts? I don't care if it can shoot into games that haven't started yet, it's a paperweight.

Wait, who's the other character?

I know about the dogmata.

 Vilgeir wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

jivardi wrote:
With the changes to MM's the most competitive lists contain, it seems, 2x5 Ret's with MM's. Hardly seeing any Exorcist spam lists anymore in 9th.

And it's not as if GW is shoehorned into T7 Exorcist. FAQ's/Errata's exist for a reason folks. At one point the Keeper of Secrets had 12 wounds. One day it had 16 without need of a new codex.

Guess we'll know more when more is leaked or when Sister's 9th codex drops.

Yea right. GW first drops T to 7 and then just faq's it back? Nope.

KoS got 16 wounds because it got new model and for GW bigger=more wounds. Expecting new exorcist model any time soon after codex release?

Snark and rudeness aside, I agree. It is not likely that they would fix the imperial chassis outlier just to FAQ it in again.

At T7 with 11W, and likely losing aura access, this tank at 195 will continue to be rare...but add indirect fire and it starts to look like an option for utility in a saturated HS slot.

Unfortunately we can't really talk tactics if it relies on wild speculation, so I suppose there's not much more that can be said.

The tank isn't really an option at 195pts now. It's not terrible but both retributors and our melee options tend to outperform it on the whole. Losing a point of AP makes it a hard sell at that price even with indirect fire compensating. Losing a point of toughness on top of that is MASSIVE. Melta suddenly wounding it on 3s means that it pop like an overful water ballon the first time anyone looks at it funny. At that point even indirect fire is mostly going to be what allows you to shoot it in games you go second. (The other missile option remains worthless).

If they do indirect fire, 145pts would be the most I'd be willing to consider and even then you could argue you'll get more mileage out of MM immo.
No indirect fire you're looking at 110-120pts.

I'm assuming they mean the Palatine.

Not going to touch that hot garbage heap of a take from the resident grognard. Think we should just wait and see before we cry about the sky falling, yeah?

Completely forgot about the Palatine.

GW has done a pretty good job with codeciies so far in 9th so:

1) I doubt very much the Exorcist will stay at 195 pts. More likely coming down.

2) We don't know what other special rules it might have or how the Orders are going to change which will affect, or could affect, how it works and it's survivability.

But yeah, lets jump on the "exorcist is garbage" bandwagon just from a leaked (or possibly leaked) stats on an instruction sheet.

I remember when the Necrons first got leaked and how people said the new RP was garbage. Now Necron Warriors are some of the most durable Obsec troops in the game BECAUSE of RP. But lets just go by a datasheet shall we?

Sooo this happened....

In this instalment, we’re introducing a new division of the Celestians – the fighting elite of the Orders Militant – known as Celestian Sacresants. Like their Celestian sisters, Sacresants traditionally act as bodyguards to the heads of their Order, but they’re also tasked with another holy duty – purging the impure and driving them from sites of sacred significance on the battlefield.

As a Celestian, each Sacresant is a highly skilled warrior, able to overcome many times her own number in battle. Sacresants wield a variety of blessed polearms and maces with which to smite the unclean, and bear large, ornate shields to ward off the blows of their enemies. Protected in both body and spirit, Celestian Sacresants are the wall against which waves of heretics will break.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Sooo this happened....

In this instalment, we’re introducing a new division of the Celestians – the fighting elite of the Orders Militant – known as Celestian Sacresants. Like their Celestian sisters, Sacresants traditionally act as bodyguards to the heads of their Order, but they’re also tasked with another holy duty – purging the impure and driving them from sites of sacred significance on the battlefield.

As a Celestian, each Sacresant is a highly skilled warrior, able to overcome many times her own number in battle. Sacresants wield a variety of blessed polearms and maces with which to smite the unclean, and bear large, ornate shields to ward off the blows of their enemies. Protected in both body and spirit, Celestian Sacresants are the wall against which waves of heretics will break.

I'll reserve judgment until I see their full stats and abilities, but I suspect that they could make Repentia redundant. Unless their weapons are D1 or something. The models are very cool though; I suspect my wallet is already cringing at all these new Sisters models getting ready to come out.

I think Repentia will still have a place.

Repentia will still be useful for offensive purposes. Depending on the unit rules and how orders, especially VH, change with the new codex these are going to be more of a take and hold unit. Obviously T3 is going to make them inferior to like Blade Guard from a defensive standpoint but they are still going to be more resilient than any of the other Sisters infantry units (or maybe on par with the new war suits).

It's nice to see some defensive Sisters units. Our most defensive unit right now, not counting tanks, are Mortifiers and those have to compete with MM Rets and Exorcists.

No matter what the rules are I'm getting some of these girls. Than again I don't meta chase or min/max so I don't buy units based on how "good" they are.

Hell, I'm running Lelith in my Drukhari because I love the model. Even if she isn't on par with a Triptych Succubus.

Not just more resilient, potentially less reliant on the army's defensive auras. That has some pretty big impacts for spreading out.

It's true, there is such a big supply chain behind a repentia squad ; that could be great to have another option, less tied to synergies.

Hi, am I right in thinking that celestine and the geminae can potentially give up assassinate VP more than once each (once per resurrection). Thanks

 Sluggaloo wrote:
Hi, am I right in thinking that celestine and the geminae can potentially give up assassinate VP more than once each (once per resurrection). Thanks

No. Assassinate says "Score 3 victory points at the end of the battle for each enemy Character model that is destroyed." At the end of the battle, the model is either destroyed or not. It doesn't matter how many times you had to destroy the model to get it to that point, only that it is destroyed at the end of the game.

Compare this to Thin Their Ranks which has you keep a tally of models destroyed and notes that a model that are resurrected can be counted again.

Good evening fellow sisters. I have played my first game with seraphim and zephyrim yesterday : 1500 pts against imperial guards. They were both in 5 girls squad in a little Bloody Rose detachment, while my main detachment was Valorous Heart.

While I really liked the seraphims with their baby melta and deadly descent stratagem, I didn't have any fortune with the zephyrim. I throw them against 5 bullgryn that were already engaged against Celestine and here two germinae. In one turn, the Bullgryn wiped them off the table.

Do you think 5 girls for zephyrim isn't enough? Should they be played by 10?

Moreover, is it a thing to play two squad of 5 seraphym knowing you won't be abble to use Deadly Descent two times in a single turn? I like them so much and they are so reasonnably priced that I consider playing two squads. Would it be reasonnable to play a squad on turn two and the other on turn three?

Have a nice week end guys!

Piety and Pain FAQ corrected the datasheet and points cost for the Palatine. Wargear is now matches the model: ‘A Palatine is equipped with: bolt pistol; power sword; rosarius; frag grenades; krak grenades.’ 45 Points with +5 points to take the optional Bolt Pistol to Plasma Pistol option.

 ierp wrote:
Good evening fellow sisters. I have played my first game with seraphim and zephyrim yesterday : 1500 pts against imperial guards. They were both in 5 girls squad in a little Bloody Rose detachment, while my main detachment was Valorous Heart.

While I really liked the seraphims with their baby melta and deadly descent stratagem, I didn't have any fortune with the zephyrim. I throw them against 5 bullgryn that were already engaged against Celestine and here two germinae. In one turn, the Bullgryn wiped them off the table.

Do you think 5 girls for zephyrim isn't enough? Should they be played by 10?

Moreover, is it a thing to play two squad of 5 seraphym knowing you won't be abble to use Deadly Descent two times in a single turn? I like them so much and they are so reasonnably priced that I consider playing two squads. Would it be reasonnable to play a squad on turn two and the other on turn three?

Have a nice week end guys!

You tossed a 5-model Zephyrim unit into Bullgryn and are surprised they bounced and died? 3W/T5/4++ is not something that unit wants to be anywhere near.

 ierp wrote:
Good evening fellow sisters. I have played my first game with seraphim and zephyrim yesterday : 1500 pts against imperial guards. They were both in 5 girls squad in a little Bloody Rose detachment, while my main detachment was Valorous Heart.

While I really liked the seraphims with their baby melta and deadly descent stratagem, I didn't have any fortune with the zephyrim. I throw them against 5 bullgryn that were already engaged against Celestine and here two germinae. In one turn, the Bullgryn wiped them off the table.

Do you think 5 girls for zephyrim isn't enough? Should they be played by 10?

Moreover, is it a thing to play two squad of 5 seraphym knowing you won't be abble to use Deadly Descent two times in a single turn? I like them so much and they are so reasonnably priced that I consider playing two squads. Would it be reasonnable to play a squad on turn two and the other on turn three?

Have a nice week end guys!

10 Zephs and a good target for their statline + strat

A 5 and a 10 girl squad was more normal for Seraphim at one point and still works

I don't see why one would rather play Seraphim by 10 instead of 2x5. You get more mini melta or flamers for you buck by playing two squad. Don't you think?

 ierp wrote:
I don't see why one would rather play Seraphim by 10 instead of 2x5. You get more mini melta or flamers for you buck by playing two squad. Don't you think?

I take two squads of 5 for deadly descent turn 2 and turn 3, they also almost guarantee I get deploy scramblers.

As for squads of 10, there are specific uses for them: Horde clearing with deadley descent and hand flamers, and being a fast moving relatively tough bodyguard/objective grabbing unit.

Do you always play them in Bloody Rose order? I usualy play Valorous Heart and I am wondering if it's worth to spend 3 CP to get a little bloody rose detachment in order to get the -1 AP on pistols (and in close for zephyrim).

I didn't thought about deploy scramblers, thanks for the idea I usualy take Rise the banner high but this idea might make me reconsider it.

 ierp wrote:
Do you always play them in Bloody Rose order? I usualy play Valorous Heart and I am wondering if it's worth to spend 3 CP to get a little bloody rose detachment in order to get the -1 AP on pistols (and in close for zephyrim).

I didn't thought about deploy scramblers, thanks for the idea I usualy take Rise the banner high but this idea might make me reconsider it.

With seraphim, no; the bonus isn't strong enough to be worth losing 3 CP for a BR detachment. If you want to take Repentia and Zephyrim enough to already have a BR detachment you should put your seraphim in there. Just don't take the whole detachment for just seraphim.

Sidebar: Repentia and Zephyrim are not AT ALL worth their points in anything but Bloody Rose. You're much better off taking Mortifiers or ArcoFlags if you want some melee punch in a VH list.

Thanks you for your advice. I was thinking the same thing as you said about the necessity to play Bloody Rose for Repentias and Zeph' but wasn't sure about the Seraphims. I have already bring Mortifiers to nearly all the game I played in mono Valorous Heart detachment. The only problem with them is that they are in the heavy slot that is already crowded and it's hard to fill a Brigade Detachment in sub 2000 pts games, leting us with a Bataillon and his 3 heavy slots...

I have just ordered one squad of ArcoFlagelants few weeks ago. I guess it's advised to play them with a preacher, transported in a rhino?

 ierp wrote:
Thanks you for your advice. I was thinking the same thing as you said about the necessity to play Bloody Rose for Repentias and Zeph' but wasn't sure about the Seraphims. I have already bring Mortifiers to nearly all the game I played in mono Valorous Heart detachment. The only problem with them is that they are in the heavy slot that is already crowded and it's hard to fill a Brigade Detachment in sub 2000 pts games, leting us with a Bataillon and his 3 heavy slots...

I have just ordered one squad of ArcoFlagelants few weeks ago. I guess it's advised to play them with a preacher, transported in a rhino?

9 Arcos with a Preacher in a Rhino is a good setup. If you can get them into something and pop Extremis Trigger Word, that's 81 attacks (84 if one Arco is an Endurant) that hit on 4+ rerollable. It'll probably wipe out a Necron Warrior blob without them getting their RP, and can do nasty things to big units of Tyranid gaunts or Ork Boyz also. I wouldn't run more than one unit of Arcos, though; take Mortifiers if you need additional melee punch in a VH list.

You're right about Heavy Support being a crowded slot for Sisters. Retributors, Exorcists, and Mortifiers are all decent and you'll run out of slots quickly. The arrival of the Castigator is just going to exacerbate the problem, although I don't see Castigators being good, or at least not any better than Exorcists. That all depends on what special rules it gets, and I really hope I'm wrong and maybe we start seeing vehicles become viable again (unlikely due to the prevalence of the "melta meta").

I am also quite shoked to see the lack of entry in our fast attack slot. I may I agree that Sisters way of fighting is not in fast attack but why the hell zephyrim are in elite slot that is also crowded because of the many characters we have... I can't imagine new warsuits and shielded infantry sisters (don't know their names) being in anything else than support and elite.

For the exorcist, bear in mind that new rules have been leaked showing a decrease in toughness from 8 to 7, in wounds from 11 to 10 and the exorcist missile launcher lose 1 AP.

 ierp wrote:
I am also quite shoked to see the lack of entry in our fast attack slot. I may I agree that Sisters way of fighting is not in fast attack but why the hell zephyrim are in elite slot that is also crowded because of the many characters we have... I can't imagine new warsuits and shielded infantry sisters (don't know their names) being in anything else than support and elite.

For the exorcist, bear in mind that new rules have been leaked showing a decrease in toughness from 8 to 7, in wounds from 11 to 10 and the exorcist missile launcher lose 1 AP.

B.c they are a buffing unit as well.

I know the conversation moved a bit from the topic of seraphim squad sizes, but I wanted to add my voice to espousing the values of max sized units here. Using deadly descent on a unit that big really helps punch a hole through a screen, one where your zephyrim can land.

I'm a fan of the anti-horde use of this unit lately seeing as I have many more options for more efficient anti-tank that doesn't rely on a Stratagem to function.

Are you saying a 10-model Seraphim squad with 2 paired Hand Flamers models for horde-cleansing and hole-creating duties?

 alextroy wrote:
Are you saying a 10-model Seraphim squad with 2 paired Hand Flamers models for horde-cleansing and hole-creating duties?

Specifically using deadly descent to maximize the impact of that stratagem. One of the key things I like to do is a one-two punch with seraphim dropping down, clearing a screen in the movement phase, and opening up a bubble for the zephyrim to get in deeper. You can then deploy scramblers or fire again.

I play as bloody rose, so I don't expect that's very useful for VH.

That's not to say the smaller units with more special weapons aren't great, they absolutely are. 2 MSU flamer units are pretty powerful at that task as well, but the key for me in the above tactic is maximizing the impact of that immediate drop in support of the zephyrim. The inferno pistol option is a decent way to basically drop in, melt something tough or important, and then become an action monkey. The options for this unit are so good lol

I normally run a single Seraphim x10 squad with 4x Hand Flamers, and use those for Deadly Descent shenanigans; typically targeting light infantry or softer characters if available. They typically make a splash. If I feel I need more melta or character threatening, I'll also bring a squadron of 5 with the inferno pistols. But I never drop them on the same turn, just to have Deadly Descent always available. It is 100% mandatory if you're coming in with Inferno Pistols; there is no way to get around that if they're deep striking.

Zephyrim... I've taken to running 2x5 squads. They normally lurk and threaten characters or soft objective campers. They should be run as Bloody Rose - Tear Them Down is that good, especially with Zephyrim (and don't forget they naturally re-roll melee wound rolls as well). I try to drop them across 2 turns as well, to always have access to Tear Them Down, as well as access to Miracle Dice to force the charge roll. Nothing worse than a melee unit sitting stranded in the open because they flubbed a charge roll.

I think the Ogryn charge mentioned earlier was a bit of a tough target for them. A squad of 5, even as Bloody Rose, is only going to throw 16 attacks? Low chance to even convert enough wounds to wipe the squad, even before considering their invulnerable that nullifies the big -3 (-4 for BR) AP Power Sword that is the true threat of the squad. Zephyrim need to pounce on armored targets to really get a good return on what they're doing. Though, taking down a stray character is a good role, too, since they can sneak enough damage through to threaten 5 wound chars with invulnerables... but you're definitely looking for the opponent to not have dice luck if that invul is 4+ or better.