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Voss wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Sarouan wrote:
I too think the counter is about the reveal of this new box.

To kick off our introduction to the new edition of Warhammer Age of Sigmar, a box packed with brand new miniatures and a special edition of the rule book will be coming. Suffice to say the stunning new Stormcast Eternals we saw on Saturday are making an appearance, but who will they be fighting against?

I winced at these words. It sounds like "as long as stock is available, then forever gone", Indomitus style.

But well...wait and see.

The only thing you'd miss out on is the cover for the rule book and whatever discount it offers
Otherwise everything else in the set will be coming out on individual sale, even if a few weeks/months later for some things.

Yeah, but... that hasn't exactly gone well for the Indomitus models, has it? If you want the stuff that didn't make it into the starter boxes, you're paying through the nose. To the tune of something like $500 total for a $199 box (including rulebook, which you don't get). And that's if you're doing the sane thing and buying the starter boxes rather than buying a single unit box that are ~half the cost of the elite starter for 1 out of the 4 units that are in it and none of the characters.

Yes and that's the same if you miss out a christmas bundle box or a duel army pack or any other limited volume discount box.

That... isn't the same at all. A christmas bundle box is always existing kits that you can currently buy. They don't vanish and pieces get put up for sale months later at a single sprue for... $140, nearly _three quarters_ of the price of the entire box.

Whatever bizarre equivalence you're trying to draw, that's just flatly incorrect.

The starter box is a discount bundle box.
When the starter box goes out of production/off sale then the individual models within are released to the market. This might well be at a higher price than before.

The models are still accessible, more expensive, but accessible to the market. Therefor if you do not purchase the discount starter box (or you come to the hobby/army after the box has been withdrawn from sale) then yes you will pay more.

That's directly the same thing as duel army boxes GW has been using over the last few years to launch new models; its similar to a christmas box where they offer you a short term discount on models.


What I'm saying is that just because the starter box is removed from sale doesn't mean models unique to that box are going to be lost to the market.

I have 18 gluttons. Not a single duplicate. And they all look the same from distance. People fetishize "unique poses" like it actually shows in a unit of more than 5.

Cronch wrote:
I have 18 gluttons. Not a single duplicate. And they all look the same from distance. People fetishize "unique poses" like it actually shows in a unit of more than 5.

Gluttons probably look the same because their poses are, by design, identical except for the guy holding a bear trap and the standard bearer. At least back in the day they had the excuse of needing to be ranked up, but these days the "do you want their weapon pointed down a bit, or straight up, all with their arms braced by their side?" is probably the most damning example of identical poses.

 Overread wrote:

What I'm saying is that just because the starter box is removed from sale doesn't mean models unique to that box are going to be lost to the market.

Deth koptas, cultist heavy weapons. Is the DG model back on sale?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cronch wrote:
I have 18 gluttons. Not a single duplicate. And they all look the same from distance. People fetishize "unique poses" like it actually shows in a unit of more than 5.

You know there's eye doctor to help with your problem don't you?

tneva82 wrote:
Options at least. I have 170 or so and I suspect there's not single duplicate. Except maybe by accident.

Then take ogor gluttons. If it was designed now you would get 6 with only options being weapon combo. So 2 box and you would have all options. I have 24 of them and not even CLOSE to having duplicate models. And that's bad box in itself yet is better than current ones.

Stone trolls? I have 12. All unique. Now it would be 3 models and that's it. 12 I would have 4 times same 3 models.

Eh, the current Rock Troggoths for AoS are actually a really blood neat kit, due to the way it's designed you can have any combination of two arms and any head on any body, it's quite neat in terms of poses.

tneva82 wrote:

 Overread wrote:

What I'm saying is that just because the starter box is removed from sale doesn't mean models unique to that box are going to be lost to the market.

Deth koptas, cultist heavy weapons. Is the DG model back on sale?

Deff koptas were from Assault on black reach, which is like three or four starter sets old now and was made before GW's leadership change. They did re-release it as part of some Toys R Us range, but I think it was US exclusive. But yeah, DV Chosen and Cultist never got a separate release. And I think DG got everything important from DI except the Lord of Contagion. Sadly, since GW is apparently phasing out start collectings, I doubt we'll get both sides in a SC boxes :(

 CMLR wrote:
No way the countdown is for pre-ordering the new edition.

BTW one reason it won't be preorder...it's counting not just days but exact hour. 6pm(UK time) saturday.

Since when preorders are 6pm?

6pm however is time previews in festival were...

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Options at least. I have 170 or so and I suspect there's not single duplicate. Except maybe by accident.

Then take ogor gluttons. If it was designed now you would get 6 with only options being weapon combo. So 2 box and you would have all options. I have 24 of them and not even CLOSE to having duplicate models. And that's bad box in itself yet is better than current ones.

Stone trolls? I have 12. All unique. Now it would be 3 models and that's it. 12 I would have 4 times same 3 models.

Eh, the current Rock Troggoths for AoS are actually a really blood neat kit, due to the way it's designed you can have any combination of two arms and any head on any body, it's quite neat in terms of poses.

For whatever reason GW show the same 3 models even though the kit could be used to make a huge range of options.

But yeah, GW have shown they can make models with lots of options without resorting to ugly joint designs like the old old models. In the other thread we were discussion the Escher and Goliath models which have 5 unique bodies, but any set of arms can be attached to them giving lots of variability.

It's odd that they don't put similar effort into other kits.

tneva82 wrote:

 CMLR wrote:
No way the countdown is for pre-ordering the new edition.

BTW one reason it won't be preorder...it's counting not just days but exact hour. 6pm(UK time) saturday.

Since when preorders are 6pm?

6pm however is time previews in festival were...

That's a good observation - maybe this is when the other faction will be revealed?

In terms of unreleased stuff from DI, aren't we still missing a normal Primaris Ancient and Gravis Captain?

tneva82 wrote:
Options at least. I have 170 or so and I suspect there's not single duplicate. Except maybe by accident.

Then take ogor gluttons. If it was designed now you would get 6 with only options being weapon combo. So 2 box and you would have all options. I have 24 of them and not even CLOSE to having duplicate models. And that's bad box in itself yet is better than current ones.

Stone trolls? I have 12. All unique. Now it would be 3 models and that's it. 12 I would have 4 times same 3 models.

All of those with zero cutting or sculpting ability needed. Having to be sculptor to modify looks is big step backwards.

So basically the solution is multiple rotating heads? Because that's really the biggest factor in the ghoul kit as the hands aren't rotatable(unless you want ugly gaps and weird shoulders). Also have an Ogor army and the variety isn't exactly on the menu even if they do eat everything that goes their way.

Regarding optional heads I would say that the SoB lines have been very good. Multiple heads that can be rotated. Same with many Space Marine kits right before Primaris. Multiple heads in each with rotating heads.I think the worst head option so far was the new Necron Warrior kit as part of the head is affixed to the torso so you can't really do much with it.

I am all for more head options even if I have a box of unused heads. There is just something amazing about having all those heads for future conversion projects that is just delightful. So I agree, more heads is good.


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 GaroRobe wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Overread wrote:

What I'm saying is that just because the starter box is removed from sale doesn't mean models unique to that box are going to be lost to the market.

Deth koptas, cultist heavy weapons. Is the DG model back on sale?

Deff koptas were from Assault on black reach, which is like three or four starter sets old now and was made before GW's leadership change. They did re-release it as part of some Toys R Us range, but I think it was US exclusive. But yeah, DV Chosen and Cultist never got a separate release. And I think DG got everything important from DI except the Lord of Contagion. Sadly, since GW is apparently phasing out start collectings, I doubt we'll get both sides in a SC boxes :(

Both versions of the Lord of Contagion are missing as they removed the ETB version as well. I get the feeling they expect everyone to convert Typhus into a Lord of Contagion from now on. I mean, it is good conversion base, but annoying for those who have no interest in conversions.

The Deff Kopta is perhaps the strangest unavailability of this all. Beautiful - even if it is simplistic - kit that was removed in favor of the ugly ass kit we have on the GW web page.

 Dysartes wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 CMLR wrote:
No way the countdown is for pre-ordering the new edition.

BTW one reason it won't be preorder...it's counting not just days but exact hour. 6pm(UK time) saturday.

Since when preorders are 6pm?

6pm however is time previews in festival were...

That's a good observation - maybe this is when the other faction will be revealed?

In terms of unreleased stuff from DI, aren't we still missing a normal Primaris Ancient and Gravis Captain?

The launch box reveal sounds like pretty logical enough guess. Also we might be told exact preorder(2 week window) date.

We might get to know other side sooner but full view would be on that time.

Best guess i can do now.

 Overread wrote:
What I'm saying is that just because the starter box is removed from sale doesn't mean models unique to that box are going to be lost to the market.

Oh really? DV cultists/chosen? DA etb Terminator squad? Captain with combi-melta? DI Gravis captain and Reaper lord? Plastic skaven? Etc, etc...

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Yeah. The 'multi-pose' generally boiled down to 2-3 poses that actually looked decent, and were worse looking than they could have been because they needed to accommodate the two dozen other pose options that looked awful.

Also, anyone babbling about 'multipose' kits apparently never tried to put together BA/DA/SW terminators, frakking things go together only ONE way (DA being worst offender, their robes have space for specific belts inside so no mixing and matching robes/legs/torsos, it has to be one specific set and if you use the legs for robeless apothecary/ancient/regular termie, you can trash big portion of the sprue) and the end result is still much worse than primaris anyway. I'll take ""monopose"" over this 'multipose' junk any day

Also, don't forget that the true variety from older kits actually came from people converting the miniatures, either in a very small way like cutting an arm at the elbow and slightly turning it a bit more or using a part from another kit, or either more heavily conversion involving green stuff sculpting.

It's the same with current "monopose" kits from AoS, mind you, because you know...still ol' GW plastic. Easy to cut, easy to bend. Especially when they're getting thinner than before.

tneva82 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cronch wrote:
I have 18 gluttons. Not a single duplicate. And they all look the same from distance. People fetishize "unique poses" like it actually shows in a unit of more than 5.

You know there's eye doctor to help with your problem don't you?

No need to be insulting, 'cause he's right. Old kits were always having the same pose, for two reasons : 1 you need to have all combinations of arms / torso / legs / heads to be compatible and 2 they were made for Warhammer Battle that was rank)-and-file unit-based and they needed the miniatures to be able to be put base to base (even if that was really clunky towards the end with the miniatures getting bigger but the bases staying the same). You can't do that if the poses are wildly different so that they keep pushing each other away with their arms, cloaks, weapons, and so on. That's why the old dark elf corsairs had all their cloaks moving in the same direction (first backwards then forward) - and it was still a pain to put them right in units, sometimes...

And once you look at the battlefield from a higher position, they tend to look similar, 'cause that's how human eyes work. They only see the small details / differences up close.

Also, with age, your sight gets worse and it's natural. You'll suffer the same fate too eventually, so better not to be condescending, young one.

Riders of Ruin and Blood: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/11/find-out-why-blood-knights-are-the-unit-soulblight-vampires-cant-live-without/

That's neat. I like that riders of ruin rule.

I like that blades or lances , they have the same rules.

At this point GW has shown that they aren't capable of balancing normal weapons vs charge bonus weapons for cavalry so they just saying "feth it lets they build them as they want" is actually positive. Specially, with how simple weapon profiles are in aos, you always have one option that is mathematically better agaisnt nearly all cases. Most AoS units would benefit for having a single weapon profile and let the options be aesthetic.

Anyone recognise the terrain on the left or is it new? There might be more in the background I think I see roof tiles.

Yeah, the left is part of Dreadstone Blight, and that's Skullvane Manse in the background

 Tim the Biovore wrote:
Yeah, the left is part of Dreadstone Blight, and that's Skullvane Manse in the background

Ah so it is thanks it would be great if they’d rerelease some of those kits that they continue to use in the pictures even the AoS 3 preview image is full of OOP kits.

 DaveC wrote:

 Tim the Biovore wrote:
Yeah, the left is part of Dreadstone Blight, and that's Skullvane Manse in the background

Ah so it is thanks it would be great if they’d rerelease some of those kits that they continue to use in the pictures even the AoS 3 preview image is full of OOP kits.

Amen to that. Would love some of the old kits back, even if they didn't fit together all the time. Just want more unique terrain for AoS that isn't faction terrain.

They have brought back some of the old scenery in the past. For example, the Warscryer Citadel (aka, the Skullvane Manse) was available as a part of Malign Portents in early 2018. Right now I would rather they get some of this stuff that's needed for some armies back into circulation first.

Ouch. My Drakespawn are incredibly jealous.

 Galas wrote:
I like that blades or lances , they have the same rules.

At this point GW has shown that they aren't capable of balancing normal weapons vs charge bonus weapons for cavalry so they just saying "feth it lets they build them as they want" is actually positive. Specially, with how simple weapon profiles are in aos, you always have one option that is mathematically better agaisnt nearly all cases. Most AoS units would benefit for having a single weapon profile and let the options be aesthetic.

Sadly this is very true.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I like that blades or lances , they have the same rules.

At this point GW has shown that they aren't capable of balancing normal weapons vs charge bonus weapons for cavalry so they just saying "feth it lets they build them as they want" is actually positive. Specially, with how simple weapon profiles are in aos, you always have one option that is mathematically better agaisnt nearly all cases. Most AoS units would benefit for having a single weapon profile and let the options be aesthetic.

Sadly this is very true.

Why is this sad?

I've long thought that AoS is going to need some more division between units in terms of damage types, armours and unit types and such. The more they grow armies the more they trip over each other easily with such a simple system as they have now. Seeing weapons with exactly the same profiles now is kinda pushing it even more into that region.

Then again when I did the numbers on Ossiarchs about the only real difference was 2 inches on spears and 1 inch on swords in terms of average damage dealt. Small units you'd take swords, big ones you'd take spears

 lord marcus wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I like that blades or lances , they have the same rules.

At this point GW has shown that they aren't capable of balancing normal weapons vs charge bonus weapons for cavalry so they just saying "feth it lets they build them as they want" is actually positive. Specially, with how simple weapon profiles are in aos, you always have one option that is mathematically better agaisnt nearly all cases. Most AoS units would benefit for having a single weapon profile and let the options be aesthetic.

Sadly this is very true.

Why is this sad?

Because it would be nice if units could have multiple options and all of those options be viable.

But what about some of the Kestelai Dynasty abilities.

I’ve always wanted to like rules that you get after killing things, but I tend to find the unit is either too damaged or it’s too late in the game to be worth anything. I mean, I don’t play competitive so I probably don’t kill stuff as fast as some do.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 lord marcus wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I like that blades or lances , they have the same rules.

At this point GW has shown that they aren't capable of balancing normal weapons vs charge bonus weapons for cavalry so they just saying "feth it lets they build them as they want" is actually positive. Specially, with how simple weapon profiles are in aos, you always have one option that is mathematically better agaisnt nearly all cases. Most AoS units would benefit for having a single weapon profile and let the options be aesthetic.

Sadly this is very true.

Why is this sad?

Because it would be nice if units could have multiple options and all of those options be viable.

Been playing video games for over 30 years. If they can't manage it there, it's never going to happen on the tabletop. There is always one option above the rest that will dominate, and when you nerf it, the next thing will take its place. Personally, I like this new apporach. One of the big draws so far for AoS for me has been the ability to model without having to sweat what happens if I pick the "wrong" options. I agree with others that this is a very positive step. The farther they move from trying to be "competitive" and cater to the crowd, the more money I want to give them and the more participation in games I want to do.

Togusa wrote:
Been playing video games for over 30 years. If they can't manage it there, it's never going to happen on the tabletop.

Balance in (good) video games is often on a knife's edge and with the imbalance only being noticeable among the most skilled players (and imbalance often blamed where in reality it's a skill difference). Often you can take a mid to low range option according to the internet and be competitive with good players or even wipe the floor with bad ones.

Balance in GW's games is often so bad that you could beat someone across the head with a lead pipe and they'd still be able to tell you which option is clearly and obviously superior because the difference is often mathematically obvious (and by mathematically I don't mean maths professor sitting in his basement for hours, I mean middle school student counting on their fingers should be able to figure it out).