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 Dysartes wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
No Dire Wolves this week? Are we getting another week of undead next, or are the Dire Wolves put off until later?

There'll be a second week of releases, for sure, and we'll find out tomorrow if they go up for pre-order next week.

I'm half-hoping for AdMech to be next week, just to get it out of the way, and then finish this SBGL release the week after.

Could be both.

Those skeletons have good price, 10-man kits with 2 unique sprue, double up

The zombie...meh same price as modern GW stuff.

Bloodknight is also alright, on par with pricing of some older stuff.

Chopstick wrote:
Those skeletons have good price, 10-man kits with 2 unique sprue, double up

The zombie...meh same price as modern GW stuff.

Bloodknight is also alright, on par with pricing of some older stuff.

Blood Knight also used to be like, 60 Quid, so they got cut down in price by a 1/3 in their switch to Plastic

Sarouan wrote:
I'm curious, though. How many kits are out there - even on the alternate market - that give really duplicate torsos in modular plastic kits for free ? Like, in comparison to all the kits on the market ?

They're not giving them to you for free. You're paying for the kit. Given GW pricing, they really should come with more build options in general.

For just shy of forty quid a box; more than five!

Would you be fine with more torso options if they remained genderlocked? So 4 male bodies, 1 female, and 7 torsos, 5 male and 2 female?

Cronch wrote:
Would you be fine with more torso options if they remained genderlocked? So 4 male bodies, 1 female, and 7 torsos, 5 male and 2 female?

Sure. As long as there are sufficient heads to go with them.


Or did you expect me to reply with 'REEEE I h8 the FemOids!'?

Cronch wrote:

They're not giving them to you for free. You're paying for the kit. Given GW pricing, they really should come with more build options in general.

That's a common mistake. You're always paying for the actual kit, not what it could have been. When you ask for more that it has, you're asking for additionnal content - or content that wasn't meant to be the kit itself.

Why would you assume they would sell it the same price if they added more torsos inside, or additionnal horse head with flesh on it for those who don't like horse skulls ?

I mean, they could also have made Blood Knights riding undead donkeys or giant rabbits, but strangely, they're not selling it either in the kit.

Sure, you can always ask for something that's not what GW came in, but seriously ? It's not a Kickstarter here. And even so, customers deciding on kit design isn't always the best solution ever, because there will always be a customer that will have a different idea about how it should have been for him and not the others.

Would you be fine with more torso options if they remained genderlocked? So 4 male bodies, 1 female, and 7 torsos, 5 male and 2 female?

At this point, could really go the full way with 5 male and 5 females. With enough heads for both, of course. Why always make more males than females, after all ?

I don't think the "gender locked" is really the point here, anyway.


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 Lord Damocles wrote:

Sure. As long as there are sufficient heads to go with them.


Or did you expect me to reply with 'REEEE I h8 the FemOids!'?

Funnily enough, I bet that if the kit came with full male torsos so that you can only build a unit of 5 male Blood Knights, we wouldn't have that remark here on torsos specifically for them.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I mean, technically, that mace has blades on it...

That is common misconception, but the flanged maces had very thick, blunt prongs. I was surprised holding one, it's more like four way hammer than something akin to crossed axe

OK, shutting up about the topic now, just still finding rules writer not looking at the new models really silly...

I don't know but the blood knights horses take a chunk of the sprue so even if its 5 it's actually like 5 sized monster models. One extra torso or heads is always nice on these kits, to give some variation to 10 minis etc. but like I said those horses are big pieces of kit that takes so much space on the sprue... shame legs attached though taht sucks.

Sarouan wrote:
I'm curious, though. How many kits are out there - even on the alternate market - that give really duplicate torsos in modular plastic kits for free ? Like, in comparison to all the kits on the market ?

Not sure they were that many some people would expect it should happen here.

Why bringing it here for the Blood Knights specifically ? It's not like having the same bland torso would have made it better either. Or 7, for that matter - you would still have duplicates anyway. And it's not like the old Empire Knights plastic kit wasn't forcing you to use the same torso designs over and over again (well, I guess I was used to remove the "Sigmar" writing on those for my Knights of the White Wolf with a modeling knife, in those days).

The problem here was fitting one "female" torso with a metal bra; if you look at the current Start Collecting! StD and Khagra's Ravagers, they only need really cool head sculpts to show you the female miniatures, similar to Lumineth. Dark Eldar can get away with their armor because they are sci-fi bodysuits.

Mounted Evocators have one single female, but they come in units of three: pretty much every other heavy or elite cavalry has their mounts, shields and heads of the riders as the focus point of the models, however, Blood Knights and Evocators riders, alongside their mounts, are the combined focus, given how elaborated their armours are, and how thin/small their weapons are.

If I want to take a whole brotherhood of Blood Knights, I can't with a single box without clipping off boob plate; if I want a sisterhood, I will need green stuff and sanding off chests, but I'll won't have enough heads, I would at least liked the option of having the option of having two boob plates.

I'd like to point out that Joan of Arc never used boob plate armour, and I bet you that no woman is willing to use a metal bra under regular circumstances.


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Sarouan wrote:

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 Lord Damocles wrote:

Sure. As long as there are sufficient heads to go with them.


Or did you expect me to reply with 'REEEE I h8 the FemOids!'?

Funnily enough, I bet that if the kit came with full male torsos so that you can only build a unit of 5 male Blood Knights, we wouldn't have that remark here on torsos specifically for them.

In that case they wouldn't have been "male torsos", just "torsos", and it would have still been nice to have other adornments for the chest armour.

Well if it only came with "male" torsos then you could just slap a female head on each of them and say the armour is just, quite realistically, bulky and covering up their boobs.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Well if it only came with "male" torsos then you could just slap a female head on each of them and say the armour is just, quite realistically, bulky and covering up their boobs.

Literally the same as Chaso Knights, Warriors and Khagra herself from her Underworls warband.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

Cronch wrote:
Would you be fine with more torso options if they remained genderlocked? So 4 male bodies, 1 female, and 7 torsos, 5 male and 2 female?

Sure. As long as there are sufficient heads to go with them.


Or did you expect me to reply with 'REEEE I h8 the FemOids!'?

I will be honest, after the comments about the new stormcast and female ogres in the Wargames Atlantic threat, I fully expected something like that might be the case (not because I have something against you personally, merely because a few weird individuals were quite vocal)

In that case they wouldn't have been "male torsos", just "torsos", and it would have still been nice to have other adornments for the chest armour.

Well, why even include the torsos? The platonic idea of a rider should suffice.

If I was getting a cavalry mini from another company for $12 it wouldn't be a nice and wouldn't come with as many options. Certainly not extra torsos. It seems a strange complaint to me. Like, why lose head/weapon options for extra torsos? Why add extra torsos over, say, alternate steed heads or different shields? Either would add far more visual diversity.

Theres always something that limits how mani miniatures you can do. In most cases, thats the bodies. I don't remember that many boxes that come with more torsos or legs than the exactly ones you need to make the numbered ammount of miniatures they are selling you.

Heads, arms, and other little touches, is from where real variety comes.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Well if it only came with "male" torsos then you could just slap a female head on each of them and say the armour is just, quite realistically, bulky and covering up their boobs.

I think that would have been much better.

Cronch wrote:

In that case they wouldn't have been "male torsos", just "torsos", and it would have still been nice to have other adornments for the chest armour.

Well, why even include the torsos? The platonic idea of a rider should suffice.

I can't find the sarcasm anywhere.

Why are they blood knight if they are vampire knights and not knights made of actual blood?

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
If I was getting a cavalry mini from another company for $12 it wouldn't be a nice and wouldn't come with as many options. Certainly not extra torsos. It seems a strange complaint to me. Like, why lose head/weapon options for extra torsos? Why add extra torsos over, say, alternate steed heads or different shields? Either would add far more visual diversity.

Because now we are forced to have four blokes and one gal in a single unit. What if I wanted to have a ratio of 3:2 instead? the diversity that one single metal bra brought to the table now is forcing people to buy more boxed, clip off boobies, or dig in chests and add boobies. Again, this does not happen with Chaos Knights and Warriors because you only need to slap a head on them, not plated boobs.

One single diversity piece caused a diversity paradox for people who wanted diversity on their plastic soldiers kit.

No it didn't. It's only a problem if you reaally want all your models to be men for some reason. Because sorry but your argument of "well, if all the pieces are male, then they're all unisex" sounds like something from an MRA rally.

It would be nice if they included enough torso bits to make a fully female OR fully male unit. Then the people who think female vampire knights break muh immersion have what they want, and I can make an all female Lahmian unit or something.

Cronch wrote:
No it didn't. It's only a problem if you reaally want all your models to be men for some reason. Because sorry but your argument of "well, if all the pieces are male, then they're all unisex" sounds like something from an MRA rally.

OR women. Underneath the chest we all have the same torax; women ribs are not shaped in the form of their breasts.

Joan of Arc DIDN'T used boob armor.

ANY, heavy duty protection gear, is "unisex" gear: go see if the female american football teams have protection tailored specifically for all of her cup sizes.

Do you even know what a MRA rally really is? Because I know and I don't enjoy political attacks in my hobby about how I don't like that I can only have one girl in my toy soldiers army.

 ph34r wrote:
It would be nice if they included enough torso bits to make a fully female OR fully male unit. Then the people who think female vampire knights break muh immersion have what they want, and I can make an all female Lahmian unit or something.

Yeah, I'd like that: I like having 3 male heads, 3 female heads and a bund of helmeted heads, but then again, one single metal bra among four dudes is not my liking.

Cronch wrote:
No it didn't. It's only a problem if you reaally want all your models to be men for some reason. Because sorry but your argument of "well, if all the pieces are male, then they're all unisex" sounds like something from an MRA rally.

But that's how it works for Chaos Warriors. Technically, with the fact Khagra exists, all unnamed Chaos Warriors could be women for all we know.

See, it'd be right, except aside from chaos warriors, GW made it very clear that female models look quite different to their male counterparts. Thus the convention of the game for all armies BUT one instance is that female armor is distinguishable female.

As blood dragons are not chaos warriors, I see no reason why GW would drop the convention they established some 30 years ago.

Cronch wrote:
See, it'd be right, except aside from chaos warriors, GW made it very clear that female models look quite different to their male counterparts. Thus the convention of the game for all armies BUT one instance is that female armor is distinguishable female.

As blood dragons are not chaos warriors, I see no reason why GW would drop the convention they established some 30 years ago.

What?

I'd like to see where in the old books does it say "female warriors of all around the globe, except those alligned with the damned forces of Chaos, are know for go to battle clad in confortable battle brassieres, capable of deflect the mightiest of blows".

I remind you: no, there is absolutely no problem with having female cavalry, that kicks ass. We don't like that there is only ONE because we got a forced brattle instead of, either not having them and have regular armor, or embrace the brattles and having at least a single optional one to have at least two gals riding along the boys.

And there's also no reason why GW couldn't just include five male and five female heads (and obviously a good few full helmets, with one or two fancier than usual) and go "yeah female and male Blood Knights use the same armour", since they established it is also a possibile alternative to gendered armour with Chaos Warriors.

Because I mean, if you want a full female minimal squad you gotta buy 5 boxes.

now go look at all the female models GW released over the years instead of being obtuse. Even Repanse de Lyon, clad in full armor, has clearly female proportions (including some reaaally thin waist), and so do pretty much all of the rest until the 2019 chaos warriors. This is such an incredible non-issue that I'm sorry but I can't take the complaint seriously otherwise.

(on the other hand I do have to say, that line of thinking does make female marines 100% canon)

Boob plate or not, Knights tend to be quite individual. One might want boob plate as a statement or vanity. The next not so much.

I mean, it is quite an issue for anyone wanting more than a single token female Blood Knight in their unit.

I personally would prefer mine to be all male, since it fits much better with the Old World image of them being a knightly order all turned to vampires. And I'd generally prefer all mine to be helmeted, so I'd hope for enough helmeted heads so you have the option to give them all helmets. But if they are going to make some without helmets, it would be nice for some to be obviously feminine so that you can make some noticeably female. I suppose it might be hard to fit 15 total heads per set though, if you need enough that all can be in helmets or all overtly female or all overtly male. Especially considering hoe big they insist on making the hair and the helmets.

Cronch wrote:
See, it'd be right, except aside from chaos warriors, GW made it very clear that female models look quite different to their male counterparts. Thus the convention of the game for all armies BUT one instance is that female armor is distinguishable female.

7
This is exactly the OPPOSITE of what was stated during the reveal of the new Cadian upgrade sprue, which contains female heads to go with the generic 'male' bodies.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
I personally would prefer mine to be all male, since it fits much better with the Old World image of them being a knightly order all turned to vampires. And I'd generally prefer all mine to be helmeted, so I'd hope for enough helmeted heads so you have the option to give them all helmets. But if they are going to make some without helmets, it would be nice for some to be obviously feminine so that you can make some noticeably female. I suppose it might be hard to fit 15 total heads per set though, if you need enough that all can be in helmets or all overtly female or all overtly male. Especially considering hoe big they insist on making the hair and the helmets.

Meh, the 40k Eradicators kit came with 20 heads at a similar price point to the Blood Knights

Good grief is this nonsense gonna happen every single time a female miniature is released?

Some folk just need to wake up and realise it’s 2021.