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Do we　need rhinos size of land　raider? Size creep　is big. Playability is a thing unless you want to start playing on 8'5'　boards

Don't really need to upscale a Rhino too much. Just a quarter inch wider, half an inch or so longer, and it would probably be good.
But, like the poster above said, if they were going to do it, they would have done it with the SoB Rhino, too.

No point changing size if it's still under scale. And for 28mm scale rhino should be land raider sized. More as game been turning to 32mm

tneva82 wrote:
Do we　need rhinos size of land　raider? Size creep　is big. Playability is a thing unless you want to start playing on 8'5'　boards

Let's see what my crystal ball reveals. Aha! In a stroke of genius GW upscales its models, and to compensate for this change downscales board size.

Wait, my crystal ball is set to the past. That's already happened. Alright, no more predictions until I fix the damn thing.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
But, like the poster above said, if they were going to do it, they would have done it with the SoB Rhino, too.

Tinfoil hat time, but I wouldn't put it past GW to make "Astartes Rhinos" that are faithful in design to Deimos Rhinos but upscaled to match the now larger Marines. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but I could see it for two reasons:

1. GW has for a decade and a half done their best to throw out STC based vehicle design in favor of new and exciting designs to give people new things to buy. Old fluff doesn't get in the way if they've already tossed it out anyway, so it's easily imaginable that they could have two different vehicle sizes for Marines and Sisters without even worrying about fluff implications.

2. Sisters currently use the Mk.II Rhino that's been in use for about twenty years for their Rhino with an upgrade sprue for bling, and have massively blinged up Deimos based Rhinos for the other vehicles. If GW based that hypothetical Astartes Rhino on a Deimos pattern, it would end up looking like neither of the Sisters ones owed to the fact that the Deimos based Sisters models have their bling integrated and a Marine vehicle is going to look a lot barer.

I wouldn't put it past GW to upscale the rhinos a bit. If you're going to upscale the infantry then why not do the same for their transports while you're at it? Make people rebuy everything in their collection sounds very much like GW

Let's not forget that for the Rhino specifically it wouldn't be the first time. The model that was sized to work with Rogue Trader models was replaced by one to work with 3rd ed models. And since we've moved on from that 3rd ed infantry size...

If these leaks are true all the black books just became outdated.

 Tamereth wrote:
If these leaks are true all the black books just became outdated.

This was inevitable, no?

Many of the black books are already completely outdated anyway. They were always impractical to use for gaming given their cost/size/weight/how many of them you needed.

Can't see myself diving back into 30k now that FW has the Australia tax, but I'm very keen for some plastic Deimos vehicles to use with my CSM.

 Tamereth wrote:
If these leaks are true all the black books just became outdated.

How long have they been the latest version? I know they initially published rules/army lists in the giant campaign books and then had red? and black? successive further updates but I only followed for the gratuitous minis pron moreso than as an actual player.

Books 7-9 are the ones that really matter because they are the only books with rules for Tsons, Wolves, the 2 Angels, Scars, and Talons of the Emperor. They do contain some generic Legion stuff as well but not loads.

Have they changed the structure of the mkIII powerplant or does Fafnir just have extra nozzles because he's somehow extra juiced in his rules?

HQs and Characters sometimes get fancier gear. Customised equipment and the such.

 warboss wrote:
Have they changed the structure of the mkIII powerplant or does Fafnir just have extra nozzles because he's somehow extra juiced in his rules?

It's listed as Artificer armour in his rules (2+ save).

 Gert wrote:
HQs and Characters sometimes get fancier gear. Customised equipment and the such.

Has anyone else gotten extra powerplant heat exhausts (or whatever they are) or is that that entirely unique to him? I've never seen that before in 40k. Exhaust nozzle customization? Absolutely... From Ultras to Wolves, they change the shape. Never seen extras though personally so I didn't know if that meant something in game mechanically.

 warboss wrote:

 Gert wrote:
HQs and Characters sometimes get fancier gear. Customised equipment and the such.

Has anyone else gotten extra powerplant heat exhausts (or whatever they are) or is that that entirely unique to him? I've never seen that before in 40k. Exhaust nozzle customization? Absolutely... From Ultras to Wolves, they change the shape. Never seen extras though personally so I didn't know if that meant something in game mechanically.

Yes - Maloghurst the Twisted for one.

beast_gts wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Have they changed the structure of the mkIII powerplant or does Fafnir just have extra nozzles because he's somehow extra juiced in his rules?

It's listed as Artificer armour in his rules (2+ save).

Thanks. That would explain the ornateness (artificer is standard for high ranking officers in HH, right?). Anything for movement like extra distance or move through cover bonuses?

 warboss wrote:
Anything for movement like extra distance or move through cover bonuses?

Not currently - just a 2+ save.

beast_gts wrote:


Yes - Maloghurst the Twisted for one.

Spoiler:

Thanks. I guess there is precedence for it. Maybe I'm just overthinking a artistic design flourish.

tneva82 wrote:
No point changing size if it's still under scale. And for 28mm scale rhino should be land raider sized. More as game been turning to 32mm

The thing is, the transports really AREN'T that undersized anymore. Later I'll post a picture of myself standing next to an APC displayed next to our local National Guard unit along with a Primaris next to a Rhino.

You have to remember that in the real world soldiers don't get into transports in dynamic poses with a 5-foot wide, 8-inch thick black disc on their feet.

They can happily change the transport size for Heresy if the view is that Firstborn in 40K are heading to legends and therefore Rhinos etc arent required going forward in the Marine line (and SoB are irrelevant in the Heresy-40K comparison given they arent a thing in the Heresy system).

Geifer wrote:1. GW has for a decade and a half done their best to throw out STC based vehicle design in favor of new and exciting designs to give people new things to buy. Old fluff doesn't get in the way if they've already tossed it out anyway, so it's easily imaginable that they could have two different vehicle sizes for Marines and Sisters without even worrying about fluff implications.

In what way have they abandoned STC vehicle design? The vast majority of Imperium vehicles from 30k through to even Primaris share a lot of similar design elements that it's clear they're related.

The "template" part of STC has always been a vague enough term that it could refer to anything from a printed blueprint for a completed design with swappable hard points all the way up to a computer containing a library of adaptable elements.

Plus the Imperium was producing Rhinos for Astartes and average humans during the Great Crusade, so it's not unimaginable that there was a separate version designed if it was found that the original Rhino was too compact for power armor.

FrothingMuppet wrote:They can happily change the transport size for Heresy if the view is that Firstborn in 40K are heading to legends and therefore Rhinos etc arent required going forward in the Marine line (and SoB are irrelevant in the Heresy-40K comparison given they arent a thing in the Heresy system).

That wouldn't matter for Firstborn if they get Legended but it'd still effect Chaos Rhinos.

Since Mars pattern vehicles were a part of the later stages of the Heresy, I can absolutely see them taking all the current rhino-chassis based vehicles and reboxing them for 30k. That, in my mind, is much more likely than them remaking a bunch of those vehicles to be bigger.

The Chaos versions of those just need to go the way of the dodo for 40k. Give us some sort of weird daemon engine transport or some junk. At least then it'll match the way the rest of the army is going.

How much would you say the new firstborn proportions increase the size of a model in terms of percentage? 10%?

Wouldn't expect much larger increase in transport sizes either

drbored wrote:
The Chaos versions of those just need to go the way of the dodo for 40k. Give us some sort of weird daemon engine transport or some junk. At least then it'll match the way the rest of the army is going.

I wouldn't say that too loudly - Gadzilla might have an aneurysm...

 Dysartes wrote:

drbored wrote:
The Chaos versions of those just need to go the way of the dodo for 40k. Give us some sort of weird daemon engine transport or some junk. At least then it'll match the way the rest of the army is going.

I wouldn't say that too loudly - Gadzilla might have an aneurysm...

Not just him. It's an appallingly bad idea.

drbored wrote:


The Chaos versions of those just need to go the way of the dodo for 40k. Give us some sort of weird daemon engine transport or some junk. At least then it'll match the way the rest of the army is going.

Whenever someone suggests to dump units (i.e., invalidating peoples models to fit their very narrow and specific view of the lore) I immediately discard their take without a second thought, and I encourage everyone else to do the same.

Regarding the different Rhinos, perhaps check out AndroidArts' artwork:

http://www.androidarts.com/40k/index.htm

 Malika2 wrote:
Regarding the different Rhinos, perhaps check out AndroidArts' artwork:
(...)
http://www.androidarts.com/40k/index.htm

Those are brilliant, I love a lot of the redesigns and rethinks they've done. Necrontyr-were-hobgoblins is now my headcanon.

 Jack Flask wrote:

Geifer wrote:1. GW has for a decade and a half done their best to throw out STC based vehicle design in favor of new and exciting designs to give people new things to buy. Old fluff doesn't get in the way if they've already tossed it out anyway, so it's easily imaginable that they could have two different vehicle sizes for Marines and Sisters without even worrying about fluff implications.

In what way have they abandoned STC vehicle design? The vast majority of Imperium vehicles from 30k through to even Primaris share a lot of similar design elements that it's clear they're related.

The "template" part of STC has always been a vague enough term that it could refer to anything from a printed blueprint for a completed design with swappable hard points all the way up to a computer containing a library of adaptable elements.

Plus the Imperium was producing Rhinos for Astartes and average humans during the Great Crusade, so it's not unimaginable that there was a separate version designed if it was found that the original Rhino was too compact for power armor.

Just a couple of examples. When GW made the Primaris tanks, they made visibly differently designed tanks rather than, in effect, Land Raiders and Rhinos that have their tracks replaced with anti-grav devices.

When they decided Marines needed aircraft smaller than a Thunderhawk to participate in the flyer game, they opted to give make one thing for basically everyone, except made a completely different design for Dark Angels and Death Watch instead of using the same craft or given them modified versions thereof.

When they released Mechanicus, they didn't give them Chimeras or Rhinos as they should have and cooked up some bogus fluff that Mechanicus armies prefer to walk or whatever. Then when they went back on that, Mechanicus still didn't get Chimeras and Rhinos and instead got their own hover barge.

GW emphasizes (sub-)faction specific design to create a unified appearance of the army over drawing on a generic, universal Imperial design that is at most modified to slot into the faction aesthetic.