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Gert wrote: It's busy for sure but I think it makes the distinction of Artificer Armour pretty clear. You can see that at some point it was MkVI but with time and the owner's personal additions, it's something different.
Does the timeline work for that? I was under the impression that deployment of MkVI had only just begun when hostilities broke out. Or is this case where the 30k universe's hundreds-and-hundreds-of-years time scale makes the intuitive reading -- that the newest model of advanced armour wouldn't have time to make it to revered-ancient-relic status until well after the war -- less accurate?
Artificer armour doesn’t have to be ancient to be good. The ancient bit comes after that, as the legion/chapter keeps the super-suit for the use of champions of the future. The sequence is: bossman gets armour; bossman has armour customised; bossman’s custom orders cover or negate specific weaknesses in that suit, because he’s experienced and knows what’s what; eventually bossman is unable to use the suit anymore and so it passes into chapter legend and also the trophy room.
"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
I wonder if Mr. Mustache would look better if his sword arm were tilted forwards, to give his pose more intentionality. People swinging their swords to point a things is an awful cliche, but it usually works.
It would be a bit of a move involved conversion, but if you could sling his gun over his shoulder and have both hands on the sword to make it look like he's about to take a proper swing then it could end up looking really snazzy.
The relentless negativity on this forum is soul destroying. God almighty. It's no wonder most of the online hobby discussion has migrated to Reddit. This place is just insufferable sometimes.
Yeah the problem is that reddit is a domain of forced optimism and endless positivity.
Endless white knighting around GW's products started making a lot more sense when you realise how many people involved in the hobby now also have shares in GW. Toxic positivity and white knighting are probably seen as protecting their investments, rather than as blind fanboyism.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Does the timeline work for that? I was under the impression that deployment of MkVI had only just begun when hostilities broke out. Or is this case where the 30k universe's hundreds-and-hundreds-of-years time scale makes the intuitive reading -- that the newest model of advanced armour wouldn't have time to make it to revered-ancient-relic status until well after the war -- less accurate?
The Heresy lasted 10 years. There's a lot of downtime between Warp transits and battles which means time for training or swapping war stories. If you hear that the Traitors have started putting the Eye of Horus on their banners and wargear, you might decide that you are going to show your loyalty to the Emperor and start wearing Aquila pendants or stylised armour pieces with Imperial iconography. Perhaps you supplant some honours or personal effects from your older suit onto your new one to maintain consistency in the eyes of your troops, after all, it wouldn't do if they accidentally disobeyed orders because they didn't realise you were their commander because you didn't have your signature plume or topknot.
You also have to remember that the later stages of the Heresy became a lot about showing just how loyal you were to your side. If you make sure to emphasise your side's icons and imagery, how can anyone doubt your loyalty to the cause?
Also, Artificer Armour isn't as much of a relic in the HH era as it is after. You have basic line officers like Tactical Sergeants or Heavy Weapon Sergeants wearing it because they have access to the best facilities the Imperium has to offer and have excellent supply networks to give them whatever they need, whenever they need it. There is unity between the various armed forces of the Imperium and this unity shows in the Legion's ability to field masses of equipment and technology that has become rare and almost holy to Chapters after the Heresy ends. Things like Terminator armour in a Chapter are reserved for only the most veteran of Astartes, whereas in the HH era Terminator armour was common within all companies of the Legion, not just the veteran ones.
The relentless negativity on this forum is soul destroying. God almighty. It's no wonder most of the online hobby discussion has migrated to Reddit. This place is just insufferable sometimes.
Yeah the problem is that reddit is a domain of forced optimism and endless positivity.
Endless white knighting around GW's products started making a lot more sense when you realise how many people involved in the hobby now also have shares in GW. Toxic positivity and white knighting are probably seen as protecting their investments, rather than as blind fanboyism.
Is your local store out of tin foil? Because that sounds a bit of an insane leap in logic. Do people not believe that people who are positive about releases because they like the releases or is simple enjoyment somehow less realistic than "protecting their investment"?
Agamemnon2 wrote: Does the timeline work for that? I was under the impression that deployment of MkVI had only just begun when hostilities broke out. Or is this case where the 30k universe's hundreds-and-hundreds-of-years time scale makes the intuitive reading -- that the newest model of advanced armour wouldn't have time to make it to revered-ancient-relic status until well after the war -- less accurate?
The Heresy lasted 10 years. There's a lot of downtime between Warp transits and battles which means time for training or swapping war stories. If you hear that the Traitors have started putting the Eye of Horus on their banners and wargear, you might decide that you are going to show your loyalty to the Emperor and start wearing Aquila pendants or stylised armour pieces with Imperial iconography. Perhaps you supplant some honours or personal effects from your older suit onto your new one to maintain consistency in the eyes of your troops, after all, it wouldn't do if they accidentally disobeyed orders because they didn't realise you were their commander because you didn't have your signature plume or topknot.
You also have to remember that the later stages of the Heresy became a lot about showing just how loyal you were to your side. If you make sure to emphasise your side's icons and imagery, how can anyone doubt your loyalty to the cause?
Also, Artificer Armour isn't as much of a relic in the HH era as it is after. You have basic line officers like Tactical Sergeants or Heavy Weapon Sergeants wearing it because they have access to the best facilities the Imperium has to offer and have excellent supply networks to give them whatever they need, whenever they need it. There is unity between the various armed forces of the Imperium and this unity shows in the Legion's ability to field masses of equipment and technology that has become rare and almost holy to Chapters after the Heresy ends. Things like Terminator armour in a Chapter are reserved for only the most veteran of Astartes, whereas in the HH era Terminator armour was common within all companies of the Legion, not just the veteran ones.
Aquilas seem to come into wearing around as soon as the Dropsite Massacre based on Massacre:
‘How apt,’ said Cyrion.
‘What?' Talos was still struggling to clear his retinal alarms. First Claw had sustained no fatalities, but the other squads were beginning to register an infrequent stream of fallen kin. There was gene-harvesting to be done.
Cyrion banged a gauntleted fist against Talos’ smoking breastplate, where the silver-forged aquila was reduced to cracked, blackened devastation.
‘That,’ he said. ‘How apt.’
It might have been a way to show allegiance to the Emperor over Horus by the forces who claimed to be there to censure Horus, though it means there were traitors wearing the aquila as well, though they likely defaced it later.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/15 13:11:12
If I was any good at photoshop, I'd give the new praetor a headswap that way, there's something off about both the choices in the kit. The helmet also looks like it's sitting too high in the gorget, although that might be an intentional change to "truescale" them more.
As an aside, it amuses me that we finally got truescaled Firstborn as a part of the Heresy. You youngbeards might not remember this, but around 20 years ago, there was a brief trend to make "pre-heresy" and "truescale" marine armies, often leveraging the at the time fairly new Chaos Warrior plastics, to create more imposing marines bedecked with furs and cloaks, to go with the HHCCG and its art books, popular at the time.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/15 13:21:09
Agamemnon2 wrote: If I was any good at photoshop, I'd give the new praetor a headswap that way, there's something off about both the choices in the kit. The helmet also looks like it's sitting too high in the gorget, although that might be an intentional change to "truescale" them more.
As an aside, it amuses me that we finally got truescaled Firstborn as a part of the Heresy. You youngbeards might not remember this, but around 20 years ago, there was a brief trend to make "pre-heresy" and "truescale" marine armies, often leveraging the at the time fairly new Chaos Warrior plastics, to create more imposing marines bedecked with furs and cloaks, to go with the HHCCG and its art books, popular at the time.
I assumed the head looks like it's sitting too high because they blue tac'd it in for a couple of pictures, something the studio has done in the past when getting different pictures of multiple options over building and painting multiples of the same kit.
The relentless negativity on this forum is soul destroying. God almighty. It's no wonder most of the online hobby discussion has migrated to Reddit. This place is just insufferable sometimes.
Yeah the problem is that reddit is a domain of forced optimism and endless positivity.
Endless white knighting around GW's products started making a lot more sense when you realise how many people involved in the hobby now also have shares in GW. Toxic positivity and white knighting are probably seen as protecting their investments, rather than as blind fanboyism.
Is your local store out of tin foil? Because that sounds a bit of an insane leap in logic. Do people not believe that people who are positive about releases because they like the releases or is simple enjoyment somehow less realistic than "protecting their investment"?
I've spoken to several people who are complete fanboys of GW, who've later mentioned in one form or another, most (if not all) of their hobby budget has come from the money they made from GW shares. This is both IRL and online. It's happened enough as to feel like more than a coincidence.
Obviously blind fanboyism and doing it for free is nothing new, but it might explain in part why GW seems to cultivate a certain diehard who'd take a bullet for the Sigmarine statue in Nottingham. It's probably a lot easier to forgive, if not love something, when you're pretty much getting it for free or even making money off it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/04/15 13:38:58
I've spoken to several people who are complete fanboys of GW, who've later mentioned in one form or another, most (if not all) of their hobby budget has come from the money they made from GW shares. This is both IRL and online. It's happened enough as to feel like more than a coincidence.
Obviously blind fanboyism and doing it for free is nothing new, but it might explain in part why GW seems to cultivate a certain diehard who'd take a bullet for the Sigmarine statue in Nottingham. It's probably a lot easier to forgive, if not love something, when you're pretty much getting it for free or even making money off it.
And I've spoken to loads of people who aren't endlessly negative about GW releases and not a single one of us has stocks and doesn't understand the stock market at all beyond:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/15 13:46:33
I'd say I'm generally positive about GW but I don't play with stocks. Seems like a very small percentage of people invested in this game would really. I guess it's largely down to expectation management and not putting all my eggs in one basket for what I find fun with the hobby.
I don't know, it seems cynical to claim that people are being paid (even indirectly through share prices) to support GW, if not straight up conspiracy theorist. Are there likely people who do make money on stocks for their hobby projects? Sure. But I doubt it's a significant number of people and it has more to do with the circles a person is involved with than anything else.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/15 14:04:55
This is bait, isn't it? Otherwise you didn't pick one of the worst possible examples to demolish your own point - both models have identical design language, with the difference being one being actually good model and paint scheme and the other being gakky FW "cast" with terrible dwarf anatomy and details, quickly dunked in wood stainer twice - you could achieve totally identical results if you dipped plastic mini in solvent to soften edges then rolled it in mud. Then it would be 'pure' HH, eh?
If anything, the model that looks more 40K is the one on the right - I remember it being bashed for having ""40K aquilas"", ""trims"" and ""pose"" - it's hilarious to see it now paraded as 'true' HH and the model actually true to HH roots being bashed as 40K
Crablezworth wrote: Love that model, and also a great example of less is more in terms of details and decorations
You say "less" because of lazy, 3.5 colors palette. It's almost monochrome. Just look at the gun, one greenish blob. I'd bet that if new model was painted this detail-less way and your praetor new GW style, you'd be saying the first is the lesser-more one, and the latter over-designed junk. It's amazing how people can't look past paint and say things that are objectively false just because painter emphasized or muted them.
It's especially funny (and sad) because if anything, old HH depictions had pristine armour, as it was freshly made (even in Blanche depictions, at that), while the 40K one were dirty and broken from lack of maintenance, resources, and 10.000 years of wear. HH lemmings just latched to paintings of one (really wrong from fluff perspective) FW painter doing stuff in 'historical' style, when really, current GW paint jobs are how it was always supposed to look like. Bright and shiny, like everything during Great Crusade.
But again, it's not like gatekeeping brigade actually knows the fluff (or cares for it), it's just always muh dumping on plastic models/GW paint styles to cope with wasting tons of money uselessly on objectively worse minis that were then further degraded by really subpar paint jobs that are hilariously wrong even on WW2 models (seriously, I saw a seminar once on difference how people imagine/paint dirty/worn out 'realistic' WW2 tanks and how they really looked like, and FW "style" was rubbished as laughable nonsense even in it by actual WW2 experts)...
I don't recall commenting on the painting or gatekeeping for that matter.
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Undead_Love-Machine wrote: I love the idea that everybody who says something positive about GW or their products must have invested in GW stock.
It's beyond absurd, and yet, it's now been shown that at least one person in the world actually believes it to be true!
Because doing it for free is less troubling to consider...
Decent video on the current topic
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/04/15 14:52:36
Undead_Love-Machine wrote: I love the idea that everybody who says something positive about GW or their products must have invested in GW stock.
It's beyond absurd, and yet, it's now been shown that at least one person in the world actually believes it to be true!
Nobody said that.
Agamemnon2 wrote: If I was any good at photoshop, I'd give the new praetor a headswap that way, there's something off about both the choices in the kit. The helmet also looks like it's sitting too high in the gorget, although that might be an intentional change to "truescale" them more.
For me it's not the head options that look weird, it's the posing. I tend to think 'heroic' poses can be overdone, but there's no clear sense of movement or direction. The way the sword is held in particular reminds me of the old one-piece pewters, where the sword is held awkwardly in the same plane as the body so that it could be cast in a single mold.
Part of it might just be the photos squashing a three-dimensional model into a flat plane, and the posing of the head creating a flat posture, but the sword in the air is a little weird when it's not accompanied by an appropriately 'inspiring' pose for the rest of the model (example).
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Crablezworth wrote: I don't recall commenting on the painting or gatekeeping for that matter.
It's Irbis, it's not really about your post; your post was just an excuse for a masturbatory rant.
I don't hate the new model. It's a pretty busy sculpt and the posing is wonky, but if any model is going to be busy it ought to be a character. I know you didn't talk about painting, but I think if given the FW-style paint scheme rather than a GW-style one, it'll fit in much better with the existing HH stuff. Again, I think that in a 3D space, the detail will be a lot less obtrusive than it is in pictures.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/04/15 15:26:00
Because he's a nice break from the endless positivity.
Ah yes, because people being excited for a game they play or being interested in is a real problem instead of one invented by bitter people who want everyone else to be bitter too.
I will never understand people who continue to participate in a hobby that makes them so profoundly unhappy that they feel that everyone else needs to be as unhappy as they are to "enjoy" the hobby properly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/15 16:31:02
I have this theory that everyone who is positive about GW releases, only does that because they’re actually fans of GW’s products and settings. They actually enjoy them and think they’re fun.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I have this theory that everyone who is positive about GW releases, only does that because they’re actually fans of GW’s products and settings. They actually enjoy them and think they’re fun.
Crazy I know … but it could be true.
Plausible. I too have a similar theory that everyone who is also negative about GW releases, only does that because they’re actually fans of GW’s products and settings. They actually enjoy them and think they could be MORE fun.
Crazy I know … but it could be true. But the massive piles of shame, thousands of online posts, and even nicely packed armies ready to play might lend credence to it. Some even have proof on their blogs and youtube channels!!?!!!
Ahtman wrote: So are these new HH marines Primaris sized? I don't recall seeing where that was mentioned but it has been mentioned in a few discussions.
Ahtman wrote: So are these new HH marines Primaris sized? I don't recall seeing where that was mentioned but it has been mentioned in a few discussions.
Almost. The beakies seem to be about the size of the new CSM, so a bit smaller than the Primaris. The preators seem to be really huge though, so easily primaris-sized.
Considering Arch is an odious, slimy, Nazi toad, I'd appreciate an explanation for the comparison. I'm all for sticking it to the fash, but I'm less fond of people throwing comparisons to pitiful anti-SJW spankers unless they're proportional.
Because he's a nice break from the endless positivity.
Ah yes, because people being excited for a game they play or being interested in is a real problem instead of one invented by bitter people who want everyone else to be bitter too.
I will never understand people who continue to participate in a hobby that makes them so profoundly unhappy that they feel that everyone else needs to be as unhappy as they are to "enjoy" the hobby properly.
Because if everyone is not bitter all the time, and continues buying relentlessly, the hobby will only ever spiral downwards and nothing will ever get better.
Just look at AAA games
"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I have this theory that everyone who is positive about GW releases, only does that because they’re actually fans of GW’s products and settings. They actually enjoy them and think they’re fun.
Crazy I know … but it could be true.
Plausible. I too have a similar theory that everyone who is also negative about GW releases, only does that because they’re actually fans of GW’s products and settings. They actually enjoy them and think they could be MORE fun.
Crazy I know … but it could be true. But the massive piles of shame, thousands of online posts, and even nicely packed armies ready to play might lend credence to it. Some even have proof on their blogs and youtube channels!!?!!!
Otherwise you didn't pick one of the worst possible examples to demolish your own point - both models have identical design language, with the difference being one being actually good model and paint scheme and the other being gakky 
