Heresy/30k - News & Rumours - Plastic Land Raider Proteus - Roadmap Pg202

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**Crimson**

Also, everyone note the dreaded 'tactical rock' on the FW model used as an example of the old school HH perfection...

Criticism is one thing, but manufactured grievances steeped in rank hypocrisy are getting really tiresome.

**Catulle**

There is nothing wrong with a bit of basing frippery to throw off the symmetry, I only object when... *looks over to Drazhar and Lelith*

**Midnightdeathblade**

Crimson wrote:
Also, everyone note the dreaded 'tactical rock' on the FW model used as an example of the old school HH perfection...

Criticism is one thing, but manufactured grievances steeped in rank hypocrisy are getting really tiresome.

Nope, the rock is still fething stupid, but if we don't have a choice and every character comes equipped with one, yeah, I'd prefer the rest of the model not to look like it was covered in glue and dropped in the bits box. The original HH aesthetic is being trashed on for bright flashy designs and it is becoming abundantly clear that GW doesn't really care about marketing this edition towards older heresy players. It's gonna end up another meta dominated cheese fest, where a massive influx of competitive WAAC players are gonna flood the system and completely drive it's development by running broken lists until GW patches the game every 2 months and invalidates every $50 book they sell for all 25 factions.

If you think this game will be treated any differently than AOS or 40K now, I really struggle to see how you can have that opinion given the state of the previously mentioned games.

They run articles called "METAWATCH" for Christ's sake lol.

**ClockworkZion**

Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Crimson wrote:
Also, everyone note the dreaded 'tactical rock' on the FW model used as an example of the old school HH perfection...

Criticism is one thing, but manufactured grievances steeped in rank hypocrisy are getting really tiresome.

Nope, the rock is still fething stupid, but if we don't have a choice and every character comes equipped with one, yeah, I'd prefer the rest of the model not to look like it was covered in glue and dropped in the bits box. The original HH aesthetic is being trashed on for bright flashy designs and it is becoming abundantly clear that GW doesn't really care about marketing this edition towards older heresy players. It's gonna end up another meta dominated cheese fest, where a massive influx of competitive WAAC players are gonna flood the system and completely drive it's development by running broken lists until GW patches the game every 2 months and invalidates every $50 book they sell for all 25 factions.

If you think this game will be treated any differently than AOS or 40K now, I really struggle to see how you can have that opinion given the state of the previously mentioned games.

They run articles called "METAWATCH" for Christ's sake lol.

I feel like this post needs your avatar to have that smile flipped upside down. Yes, that's not topical but to see someone with a smiling avatar being this negative in their assumptions was a little distracting.

**Midnightdeathblade**

Maybe it'll just turn out amazing. But based on how GW have operated their games for the past years I highly doubt it's going to be any different.

So I don't see the point in blindly hoping for something when evidence suggests otherwise.

The smile is how I used to feel about HH and GW in general...those were happier times lol.

**ClockworkZion**

Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Maybe it'll just turn out amazing. But based on how GW have operated their games for the past years I highly doubt it's going to be any different.

So I don't see the point in blindly hoping for something when evidence suggests otherwise.

The smile is how I used to feel about HH and GW in general...those were happier times lol.

I'm going in more interested in the models than I am about the game at the moment. Mostly because it's easier to manage my expectations and keep them very low regarding rules.

Do we know for sure if GW's studio wrote the game or if FW did and the studio is just providing model support?

**RazorEdge**

Rumors say they trasferred or integrated the "Horus Heresy Rules Team" from FW to the GW main Studio.

**ClockworkZion**

RazorEdge wrote:
Rumors say they trasferred or integrated the "Horus Heresy Rules Team" from FW to the GW main Studio.

Considering the main studio is split into AoS and 40k that could mean that 30k is largely autonomous as a rules team which could be good for people who like it as it is. That said the move does put them under the same management team as the other games which could be bad.

**tauist**

blood reaper wrote:
Yeah so I don't think Reddit's optimism cult is anything to do with shares or whatever, but simply due to the fact a vast majority of the population has a verifiable optimism bias which is then combined with reddit's ghoulish, cult of grinning martyrs culture which promotes "let people enjoy things" to ridiculous extremes.

TIL that Reddit is a den for Slaanesh worshippers

makes sense

**kodos**

Reddit communities are all a big circlejerk and everyone who breaks it (or tries) is mobbed until they leave (with those who are not regulars falling under the train as they often don't know what the current theme is about)

Going by "reddit is positive" does not mean much

**MeanGreenStompa**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Maybe it'll just turn out amazing. But based on how GW have operated their games for the past years I highly doubt it's going to be any different.

So I don't see the point in blindly hoping for something when evidence suggests otherwise.

The smile is how I used to feel about HH and GW in general...those were happier times lol.

I'm going in more interested in the models than I am about the game at the moment. Mostly because it's easier to manage my expectations and keep them very low regarding rules.

Do we know for sure if GW's studio wrote the game or if FW did and the studio is just providing model support?

RazorEdge wrote:Rumors say they trasferred or integrated the "Horus Heresy Rules Team" from FW to the GW main Studio.

The Heresy remains the property of Forge World. Rules were written by the FW team, miniatures, despite being plastic, are still also FW just as the Titanicus and Necromunda plastics are FW.

The old division of plastic and resin is being phased out. Forge World has oversight over 'specialist' and 'historic' games, Citadel has control over the resins for 40k, AoS and their rules in these games. This is why if you look at the main GW shop page for tyranids right now, you can see the previously 'Forge World' resins listed as 'expert level kits'.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=1125463923+3857584695&Nr=AND%28sku.siteId%3AGB_gw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_GB_gw%29&Nrs=collection%28%29%2Frecord%5Bproduct.startDate+%3C%3D+1650198720000+and+product.endDate+%3E%3D+1650198720000%5D

**Arschbombe**

Lord Damocles wrote:
This thread is absolutely peak clown world.

And that's why I like it.

I just popped in because of the new beakies, but I'm sticking around because of drama. This thread is almost as good as the GE dropper bottle thread.

**ClockworkZion**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Maybe it'll just turn out amazing. But based on how GW have operated their games for the past years I highly doubt it's going to be any different.

So I don't see the point in blindly hoping for something when evidence suggests otherwise.

The smile is how I used to feel about HH and GW in general...those were happier times lol.

I'm going in more interested in the models than I am about the game at the moment. Mostly because it's easier to manage my expectations and keep them very low regarding rules.

Do we know for sure if GW's studio wrote the game or if FW did and the studio is just providing model support?

RazorEdge wrote:Rumors say they trasferred or integrated the "Horus Heresy Rules Team" from FW to the GW main Studio.

The Heresy remains the property of Forge World. Rules were written by the FW team, miniatures, despite being plastic, are still also FW just as the Titanicus and Necromunda plastics are FW.

The old division of plastic and resin is being phased out. Forge World has oversight over 'specialist' and 'historic' games, Citadel has control over the resins for 40k, AoS and their rules in these games. This is why if you look at the main GW shop page for tyranids right now, you can see the previously 'Forge World' resins listed as 'expert level kits'.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=1125463923+3857584695&Nr=AND%28sku.siteId%3AGB_gw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_GB_gw%29&Nrs=collection%28%29%2Frecord%5Bproduct.startDate+%3C%3D+1650198720000+and+product.endDate+%3E%3D+1650198720000%5D

Yeah, FW has become the "Specialist Games" team, I was just curious who took over the HH rules or if it stayed with FW namely because it if stayed with the FW team then people can probably relax a bit because it's not the same people writing 40k.

And the FW kits are only on the GW site if you're set to GB. For the rest of the world they're through the FW site only.

**zedmeister**

I’ll repost this from earlier in the thread on where 30k sits, departmentally

With thanks to Petitioner's City who posted this on B&C:

So I think the big answer is given to us on a monthly basis, namely Andy Hoare. Now he manages six games (AT, AI, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, The Old World and Heresy). Given that Andy Hoare runs heresy, I think it's pretty clear its his team of rules writers who will also be working on Heresy (especially given that they work on one heresy game, already!). That's:

- Barnes (whose career includes as mentioned above a lot of FFG work with Hoare and Bligh, and since joining SG, Necromunda, AI, AT, under Hoare).
- Jonathan Taylor-Yorke (very prominent in SG media about 2017-19 for AT and Necromunda, but also one of the leads on AI and BB 2nd edition last year; his facebook currently shows a lot of Old World love too)
- Tom Clarke (who joined SG in March 2018, after leaving his Phd - check out his Twitter, this great Voxcast interview. You can also read his Grandmaster series on AT.)

Barnes, JTY and Clarke have consistently worked together on the other SG games - AI, AT, Necromunda and Blood Bowl - under Andy Hoare. So it makes sense - after Hoare took over Heresy in the year prior to the pandemic (after the 2019 weekender when he isn't in the Heresy seminars, or at the latest after Anuj Malhotra had his final day in November 2020) - they also moved "over" to work on HH, as they also seem to be doing for TOW.

TBH, I am not sure if Wyllie are still with FW, though, but Anuj's message does suggest that he still was at the end of 2020. However it is clear now that his former co-writer, Hoare, is his boss, if he is still in the studio. And Hoare doesn't seem like the person to leave Neil alone on the project, especially as he has the aforementioned "team" of reliable collaborators who were (and potentially still are) seemingly in the same room (if Hewitt's description of FW from 2017 is correct - "Forge World, everyone is all in one room.")

and

But more seriously, I play - and rewrite for my group - Necromunda, I love the old (sometimes spotty) FFG books, and am very familiar with their (often flawed, yet still brilliant) work.

But for me thats ok. What matters always is the world building and imagination of the games - and that’s something SG have in spades. You see what this has done with Necromunda - where the FFG supplement approach hasn't yielded a strong game, per se, but such a strong world-building that emulates a RPG model. Despite the former, and perhaps because of the latter, people build and play, irrespective of the game's shaky state, and it's become a huge success. AI and AT and BB don't have a patch on how messy Necromunda is, but overall each are strong games - if not "competitive" or "perfect" games, as such. But as we know, neither quite was heresy itself.

I guess heresy has the issue of somehow being both a fluff-driven, primarily campaign-playtested, non-competitve game - and a competitive game where people extensively mathshammer everything about it so as to create the most monster lists possible.

In Necromunda the game breaks I think when the latter occurs - when gangs with too many credits buy things with too many flawed or ott rules and make too easy monsters. However, the errant rules can just be "for he arbitrator" to smooth over, but that becomes harder the larger the game, the more reticent the playing group to such changes or the more competitive the environment.

It will be cool to see where the game goes, and what the studio's inclination is - and if those rumoured three ways to play really come into the game.

**ClockworkZion**

So fears of the 40k team screwing the whole thing up are a bit unfounded and the game is at least in the same hands as the people who've been writing it for a while now (if not the entire time)?

Good to know.

**RazorEdge**

The only difference is that they possible sit now in the same "room" of the "GW Studio" with the 40k Rule Team, the AoS Rule Team and the WD Team.

**ClockworkZion**

RazorEdge wrote:
The only difference is that they possible sit now in the same "room" of the "GW Studio" with the 40k Rule Team, the AoS Rule Team and the WD Team.

I'd argue the real difference is that management is likely more directly involved with them more than them being able to swap rules ideas with the other teams easier.

**MeanGreenStompa**

RazorEdge wrote:
The only difference is that they possible sit now in the same "room" of the "GW Studio" with the 40k Rule Team, the AoS Rule Team and the WD Team.

Having sat a fair few times in Bugmans and asked various staff, no, the FW team sits as one creative group, sculptors, rules writers, graphics, fiction writers etc, bouncing ideas off each other. The Citadel (principal warhammer AoS/40k) teams do not, they are siloed, their writers are presented models and instructed to write about them. They are located in different areas of the facility on Willow Road.

**ClockworkZion**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
RazorEdge wrote:
The only difference is that they possible sit now in the same "room" of the "GW Studio" with the 40k Rule Team, the AoS Rule Team and the WD Team.

Having sat a fair few times in Bugmans and asked various staff, no, the FW team sits as one creative group, sculptors, rules writers, graphics, fiction writers etc, bouncing ideas off each other. The Citadel (principal warhammer AoS/40k) teams do not, they are siloed, their writers are presented models and instructed to write about them. They are located in different areas of the facility on Willow Road.

If reports are to be believed that changed during Covid.

**Togusa**

Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Crimson wrote:
Also, everyone note the dreaded 'tactical rock' on the FW model used as an example of the old school HH perfection...

Criticism is one thing, but manufactured grievances steeped in rank hypocrisy are getting really tiresome.

Nope, the rock is still fething stupid, but if we don't have a choice and every character comes equipped with one, yeah, I'd prefer the rest of the model not to look like it was covered in glue and dropped in the bits box. The original HH aesthetic is being trashed on for bright flashy designs and it is becoming abundantly clear that GW doesn't really care about marketing this edition towards older heresy players. It's gonna end up another meta dominated cheese fest, where a massive influx of competitive WAAC players are gonna flood the system and completely drive it's development by running broken lists until GW patches the game every 2 months and invalidates every $50 book they sell for all 25 factions.

If you think this game will be treated any differently than AOS or 40K now, I really struggle to see how you can have that opinion given the state of the previously mentioned games.

They run articles called "METAWATCH" for Christ's sake lol.

What if I really like 40K and AoS?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Maybe it'll just turn out amazing. But based on how GW have operated their games for the past years I highly doubt it's going to be any different.

So I don't see the point in blindly hoping for something when evidence suggests otherwise.

The smile is how I used to feel about HH and GW in general...those were happier times lol.

If the hobby is making you unhappy, why do you continue to expose yourself to it? There must be many other things that you could do, that wouldn't keep you in a negative mindset?

**Midnightdeathblade**

If you enjoy those games all the better for you. I sold out of 30K earlier last year, so I honestly haven't stuck around. I want to though, I love the setting. Honestly since Alan Bligh passed, the game has been going steadily downhill. The last couple black books were....something, and the lack of support, the massive price hikes, and crap rules coming out of their "team" were what drove me to sell everything.

**BrianDavion**

it's too early to tell what the GW/FW corperate reorg is going to be like for the HH game. there could be good, there could be bad, my guess is it'll be a mix of the two.

**Racerguy180**

BrianDavion wrote:
it's too early to tell what the GW/FW corperate reorg is going to be like for the HH game. there could be good, there could be bad, my guess is it'll be a mix of the two.

The ratio will be key.

**ClockworkZion**

Clearly the ratio needs more of that 80s cocaine.

**RazorEdge**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
RazorEdge wrote:
The only difference is that they possible sit now in the same "room" of the "GW Studio" with the 40k Rule Team, the AoS Rule Team and the WD Team.

Having sat a fair few times in Bugmans and asked various staff, no, the FW team sits as one creative group, sculptors, rules writers, graphics, fiction writers etc, bouncing ideas off each other. The Citadel (principal warhammer AoS/40k) teams do not, they are siloed, their writers are presented models and instructed to write about them. They are located in different areas of the facility on Willow Road.

Sounds to me like the pre-Covid / pre-2020 situtation, when also the WD-Team was seperate.

**Racerguy180**

ClockworkZion wrote:Clearly the ratio needs more of that 80s cocaine.

None of that weakass modern yayo.....

**MeanGreenStompa**

RazorEdge wrote:
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
RazorEdge wrote:
The only difference is that they possible sit now in the same "room" of the "GW Studio" with the 40k Rule Team, the AoS Rule Team and the WD Team.

Having sat a fair few times in Bugmans and asked various staff, no, the FW team sits as one creative group, sculptors, rules writers, graphics, fiction writers etc, bouncing ideas off each other. The Citadel (principal warhammer AoS/40k) teams do not, they are siloed, their writers are presented models and instructed to write about them. They are located in different areas of the facility on Willow Road.

Sounds to me like the pre-Covid / pre-2020 situtation, when also the WD-Team was seperate.

I was literally sat with some people in Bugmans early last month mate.

**BrianDavion**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
RazorEdge wrote:
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
RazorEdge wrote:
The only difference is that they possible sit now in the same "room" of the "GW Studio" with the 40k Rule Team, the AoS Rule Team and the WD Team.

Having sat a fair few times in Bugmans and asked various staff, no, the FW team sits as one creative group, sculptors, rules writers, graphics, fiction writers etc, bouncing ideas off each other. The Citadel (principal warhammer AoS/40k) teams do not, they are siloed, their writers are presented models and instructed to write about them. They are located in different areas of the facility on Willow Road.

Sounds to me like the pre-Covid / pre-2020 situtation, when also the WD-Team was seperate.

I was literally sat with some people in Bugmans early last month mate.

eaither way we'll have to see if the HH is given the same treatment or if GW respects their collaborative approuch *shrugs*

**deleted20250424**

GW is bringing Content Creators over to Nottingham to paint up HH stuff for the Weekender.

**Togusa**

One of my favorite models from the HH line is the Mastadon. Lovely model, really fun to play. But, the Resin was a big put off for me. When I had mine for my Ultramarines force, it took my Resin build-bot over 14 hours just to get it built and he burned himself several times trying to get the parts to fit.

What is the likelihood that the Fellblade, Mastadon and other similar size vehicles *might* come into plastic? Do we know that there is a definat plan to bring the rest of the line to Plastic, or will there just be a few models (like these, the Sokar, Thunderhawk, etc) that will remain in plastic? Will the answer to this question depend on how well 2nd edition sells?

I don't expect answers, but I thought this might be an interesting line of discussion.

I know that I'm interested in HH again, and I'd love to get some of these models, especially if they came into plastic!