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tneva82 wrote:

Bob Lorgar wrote:
I can't believe people actually *like* that abomination that is the Contemptor dreadnaught. For one thing, it's looks like it has a huge beerbelly. For another, dreadnaughts are supposed to be exceptionally armored walking life support systems. Sticking your head out of one is the epitome of idiotic. Not wearing a helmet on a regular marine is bad enough, but at least you could claim he's trying to see or hear better or something.

Good thing then that the "head" is actually more like decorational helmet? With pilot head elsewhere under the armour?

Funny thing that.

Is it though? The wulfen/Murderfang model would tend to disagree.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Bob Lorgar wrote:
I can't believe people actually *like* that abomination that is the Contemptor dreadnaught. For one thing, it's looks like it has a huge beerbelly. For another, dreadnaughts are supposed to be exceptionally armored walking life support systems. Sticking your head out of one is the epitome of idiotic. Not wearing a helmet on a regular marine is bad enough, but at least you could claim he's trying to see or hear better or something.

You're aware that's not actually the Marine's head right? I mean, think about the position of the head on the body vs where the Marine body might be.

Also huge beer belly? What?

Apparently this isn't true for Contemptors? Going off a 7 year old comment with no source so uh... grain of salt is even a bit too confident lol. But:

"That depends on the Dreadnought pattern.

This is true with all Contemptor Pattern Dreadnaughts as these are more giant, titan-esque power armor with advanced life support than a sarcophagus with arms and legs.

If you're referring to Venerable Dreadnoughts, this is a honorary title which can be granted to any Dreadnought of any pattern.

The ones that look like the helmet is exposed in the front doesn't actually expose the pilot. They're deep within the center of the machine, the "head" is just a sensor module. The shape is to inspire courage and instill fear."

Contemptor bit bolded for emphasis. I have no idea how to find any lore supporting that, if there is any, but it's a nifty thought and goes well alongside the "Contemptors are the best kind of dread to be trapped in" fluff.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Bob Lorgar wrote:
I can't believe people actually *like* that abomination that is the Contemptor dreadnaught. For one thing, it's looks like it has a huge beerbelly. For another, dreadnaughts are supposed to be exceptionally armored walking life support systems. Sticking your head out of one is the epitome of idiotic. Not wearing a helmet on a regular marine is bad enough, but at least you could claim he's trying to see or hear better or something.

Good thing then that the "head" is actually more like decorational helmet? With pilot head elsewhere under the armour?

Funny thing that.

Is it though? The wulfen/Murderfang model would tend to disagree.

Alternately, the Murderfang model is just another example of the sculptors not knowing the game background. (Which nicely sums up that _entire_ SW codex and release)
And is also a boxnought.

That also begs the question about whether helbrutes are chaos corrupted dreadnoughts, or just parodies.

Because the helmets sticking out the front of a helbrute chassis is definitely a space marine's. Half the heads aren't wearing helmets, and even one that does has half its face exposed.

Prior to Helbrutes and Murderfang, I always assumed the pilot was floating in a little bacta tank inside and the head was just symbolic. Sort of like what you see with Titans occasionally. How does it even work if the head is exposed like that?

In MY dreads it's a sensor module, because it looks cool.

You all can have cool models ruined for you by random hard to find fluff if you want, though. Keep on not enjoying things that look cool because someone typed some words.

 GaroRobe wrote:
That also begs the question about whether helbrutes are chaos corrupted dreadnoughts, or just parodies.

Because the helmets sticking out the front of a helbrute chassis is definitely a space marine's. Half the heads aren't wearing helmets, and even one that does has half its face exposed.

Prior to Helbrutes and Murderfang, I always assumed the pilot was floating in a little bacta tank inside and the head was just symbolic. Sort of like what you see with Titans occasionally. How does it even work if the head is exposed like that?

Hellbrute heads aren't sticking out of the chassis but are more buried inside of it.

That's how the dark vengeance model looked.

The multipart kit looks much closer to Murderfang. The only thing is that since its a chaos model, it has a lot of flesh and horns growing out over the front, making it look bulkier.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Good thing then that the "head" is actually more like decorational helmet? With pilot head elsewhere under the armour?

Umm...

Realistic animatronic puppet to make Murderface more intimidating?



Just a tangential thought, has Murderface ever shown up in a novel or anything? Has anyone ever tried to make his story make a lick of sense?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Good thing then that the "head" is actually more like decorational helmet? With pilot head elsewhere under the armour?

Umm...

Realistic animatronic puppet to make Murderface more intimidating?

Spoiler:

Just a tangential thought, has Murderface ever shown up in a novel or anything? Has anyone ever tried to make his story make a lick of sense?

He's got some kind of connection to the wulfen that helps the chapter find more of them. At least as of warzone fenris he did.

Otherwise they just let him out of stasis to bite people to death.

So many space wolf models are . . .um. . . "appealing only to space wolf fans" is the way I'll put it, lol.

I mean, the dreadnought is a coffin with arms and legs.

Exposing the head is equivalent to having an open casket vs. the angry washing machines "closed casket".

If I were to be locked in a dread, I think I'd be a little less likely to go insane if I could occasionally look out with my own eyes on the world around me - at least having the helmet on gives some protection.

The question with the Contemptor is - where the heck is the body in that thing? Is it just the head? That torso is small - is there even enough room for the rest of his body to fit in, even in a fetal position?

That's assuming you had any eyes left...

Quasistellar wrote:
So many space wolf models are . . .um. . . "appealing only to space wolf fans" is the way I'll put it, lol.

no they are not

You're right, they're not even appealing to Space Wolf fans.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
You're right, they're not even appealing to Space Wolf fans.

Honestly, if I was going to collect Space Wolves, I don’t think I’d use any actual space wolves models.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
You're right, they're not even appealing to Space Wolf fans.

Honestly, if I was going to collect Space Wolves, I don’t think I’d use any actual space wolves models.

There are no Wolves in a Space Wolf army....I mean on Fenris

 Stormonu wrote:

Spoiler:

I mean, the dreadnought is a coffin with arms and legs.

Exposing the head is equivalent to having an open casket vs. the angry washing machines "closed casket".

If I were to be locked in a dread, I think I'd be a little less likely to go insane if I could occasionally look out with my own eyes on the world around me - at least having the helmet on gives some protection.

The question with the Contemptor is - where the heck is the body in that thing? Is it just the head? That torso is small - is there even enough room for the rest of his body to fit in, even in a fetal position?

From what I recall, it's just a torso and head inside

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
You're right, they're not even appealing to Space Wolf fans.

Sometimes I feel like GW deliberately set out to destroy good will towards the Big Name SM loyalist chapters.

That SW codex rammed Wolfy McWolfface Wolferson into the ground (with models to match that crater)
Ward did the Ultra Ultra Ultras.
Dark Angels mutated beyond all recognition and background (as far as I can tell, to make room for the Black Templars as the 'main' Black armor chapter)
and Blood Angels got the 'no, they're actually, really vampires, it isn't a metaphor' treatment.


Whatever it was, they pushed the subtext to the surface and went full flanderization. Luckily, they never cared enough about the other loyalist first founding chapters to do them dirty (or much at all).

Quasistellar wrote:
So many space wolf models are . . .um. . . "appealing only to space wolf fans" is the way I'll put it, lol.

As a total miniature range the SW have some, how would you say, interesting designs.

and I have none of those in my army

Russ is the only actual SW model I'd ever have if I made a SW force.

But I'm fine with the 3rd & 18th I already have going on.

Voss wrote:
Alternately, the Murderfang model is just another example of the sculptors not knowing the game background

Erm, multiple chaos boxnoughts also have pilot peeking out, so if anything M is continuation, not beginning of a trend.

 GaroRobe wrote:
Prior to Helbrutes and Murderfang, I always assumed the pilot was floating in a little bacta tank inside and the head was just symbolic. Sort of like what you see with Titans occasionally. How does it even work if the head is exposed like that?

Dunno. It's stupid, but there is not enough space inside for any "bacta tanks" unless the pilot is very front, like the 'helmet' would indicate.

You'd need something Redemptor size at least to fit reactor, pilot, thick front armour with 'helmet' sensors, etc, etc. Which is yet another example of primaris designs being vastly superior both aesthetically and practically to old ugly squats, because their walkers and vehicles look like actual, working designs decaying Imperium might use, not nonsensical junk that makes no sense even at first glance (*cough* Rhino/LR suspension, boxnoughts, ear-shoulders on TDA *cough*)

Voss wrote:
Ward did the Ultra Ultra Ultras

No, he did not. He wrote rules for Codex SM, not the fluff. And if you look at main Ultramarine stupidity from 5th Edition (Sicarius beating C'tan in fist fight and Calgar juggling Necron pylons while using them as pistols), that was in Warzone: Damnos book by Phil Kelly, showing who wrote that particular bit of fluff.

Alas, screeching 4chan kids concentrated on the completely innocent dude just because his name was on the book (and reading the interviews to see who did what was apparently too hard for them) then smeared him to a point the author of the only balanced, well written and with loads of options and viable builds in all of his army books edition of 40K quit. Bravo.

Repeating of which falsehood, incidentally, is doubly hilarious in HH subforum as the big success of 30K was caused by FW basing it entirely on his work, 5th edition providing the entire framework for the rules that made it explode in popularity. Well, until hacks who took over AB passing decided to ruin HH by switching to 7th edition, by far the worst one in 40K history (insert surprised pikachu face when it made HH tank)...

 Stormonu wrote:
I mean, the dreadnought is a coffin with arms and legs.

Exposing the head is equivalent to having an open casket vs. the angry washing machines "closed casket".

If I were to be locked in a dread, I think I'd be a little less likely to go insane if I could occasionally look out with my own eyes on the world around me - at least having the helmet on gives some protection.

The question with the Contemptor is - where the heck is the body in that thing? Is it just the head? That torso is small - is there even enough room for the rest of his body to fit in, even in a fetal position?

I was under the impression that it isn’t really a body in a dreadnought, it’s more like a lump of flesh kept alive through the life support systems.

 Irbis wrote:
Repeating of which falsehood, incidentally, is doubly hilarious in HH subforum as the big success of 30K was caused by FW basing it entirely on his work, 5th edition providing the entire framework for the rules that made it explode in popularity. Well, until hacks who took over AB passing decided to ruin HH by switching to 7th edition, by far the worst one in 40K history (insert surprised pikachu face when it made HH tank)...

The first edition of HH was based on 6th Ed 40k chief. HH also didn't switch to 7th Ed it switched to a ruleset based on 7th with the major problems taken out or just not present in the first place. AB also passed away in April 2017 and the Age of Darkness ruleset was released in December of the same year so he absolutely worked on it. And as for the "hacks", they lived and breathed HH just as AB did and you should show more respect to the people who had to not only grieve the loss of their friend but also had to carry on his legacy while chuds like you screeched online about how the game isn't perfect.

 ImAGeek wrote:
I was under the impression that it isn’t really a body in a dreadnought, it’s more like a lump of flesh kept alive through the life support systems.

It depends - sometimes it's a good chunk of the pilot, sometimes it's a brain in a jar. Carab Culln was mopped into a bucket and poured into a Leviathan Dreadnought. Some Chapters (like the Iron Hands) come close to committing tech-heresy and copy the Marine's memories into the Dreadnought rather than using the remains.

Dreadnaughts have a torso and head contained within them, fairly close to the front of the machine. The body is basically wired in and cannot be removed without dying fairly rapidly. The head is therefore in a position whereby it can have a "helmet" of some description placed upon it, so you can theoretically have a dreadnought with an uncovered head.

As far as Contemptor's, I imagine they're functionally the same as the old boxnaughts, so, yes, the "head" is where the head of the near-dead space marine would be.

If you don't think that the body overall has the required space for all the components along with at least a Space Marine head and torso, I mean, yeah? It's a science fiction model, designed to look cool, first and foremost. And that's about it. It wouldn't be the first thing in Warhammer 40k that made little sense when you start trying to explain the functionality of the thing.

"Is the head a head?" has to be one of the more bizarre debates I've seen on here....

 ekwatts wrote:
Dreadnaughts have a torso and head contained within them, fairly close to the front of the machine. The body is basically wired in and cannot be removed without dying fairly rapidly. The head is therefore in a position whereby it can have a "helmet" of some description placed upon it, so you can theoretically have a dreadnought with an uncovered head.

As far as Contemptor's, I imagine they're functionally the same as the old boxnaughts, so, yes, the "head" is where the head of the near-dead space marine would be.

If you don't think that the body overall has the required space for all the components along with at least a Space Marine head and torso, I mean, yeah? It's a science fiction model, designed to look cool, first and foremost. And that's about it. It wouldn't be the first thing in Warhammer 40k that made little sense when you start trying to explain the functionality of the thing.

"Is the head a head?" has to be one of the more bizarre debates I've seen on here....

WHAT IS A HEAD? A MISERABLE PILE OF SECRETS

Following the Drop Site Massacre the Iron Hands couldn't completely rebuild the salvaged dread so they just kind of 'stuck' Captain Branthan into it...

Yeah but they also used a super-banned archeotech that turned him into a weird machine/flesh hybrid.

Seems that poor old Irby is forgetting that all the "spiritual liege" stuff came from Ward. And that Ward gave us Draigo as well. And NEMESIS DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM FISTS!

Really his entire post was just another unbelievably transparent attempt to character assassinate Phill Kelly. Something he does often.

 Gert wrote:
... show ... respect...

C'mon Gert. Look who you're replying to? That ain't ever going to happen.