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This could be all there is, as others have stated so far this looks like Necro / BB setup. However when you look at the Primaris stuff there's always been a few different grades of kit released at different intervals, ranging from easy build to full kit, with stuff inbetween (example, Indomitus assault intercessors, eventual full assault intercessor kit, alternate pose intercessors for paint sets and "Start 40k" magazine etc).

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

JWBS wrote:
Once they release the assault marines to mix some runners into squads, and (presumably) a more extensive tactical kit it will be great. Personally I think the variety on display here is wholly acceptable for a value kit.

Why would they release a "more extensive tactical kit"? Aren't Heresy tac-squads just 10-20 bolter lads, with options for sergeant, vox and legion icon fella?

Pretty much, I think its why the weapons are coming in a different box so you can't do them "wrong" out the starter without the extra spend (I think Calth did it to annoy the HH rivet counters)

chaos0xomega wrote:

Every time someone posts "3d-printers go Brrrrrt", GW sells another million dollars worth of plastic miniatures. Its the quietest "brrrt" I've (n)ever heard, because the market overwhelmingly continues to not give a feth about 3d printing as an alternative to GWs plastics despite 3d printing evangelists insistence that 3d printing matters.

Someone once said that 3D printing is just Crossfit for Warhammer fans, and they were dead right.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

When you say "value kit", have we had any news suggesting a price for the individual boxed sets?

Not that I've seen, and given how often price rumours tend to be wrong I'm not sure I'd trust any such news until the kits are officially announced.

However for speculation's sake; keeping in mind that 40k space marine kits have been cheaper than other faction equivalents in the past, the mass-production benefit of these HH models means GW can accommodate more discount than usual. If a squad of ten usually cost say £30, then £50/55 for twenty seems plausible.

Calth/Prospero made the HH armour the same loadouts as the 40k Tacticals with some special and heavy weapons so they were more HH Veterans than HH Tacticals.
The difference with the new one is that out of the gate it's designed to be a HH unit rather than an alternate 40k kit. Calth/Prospero had the effect on our group of all the new starts building what they saw on the box so most of them ended up as Veterans, with the players using the Pride of the Legion RoW and got bored really fast because everyone used the same things all the time. Some people did think before they built but most dropped out because they didn't want to rebuy their MkIV just to make Bolter dudes.

I see this as less a case of "We cannot live with 5 torsos" and more a case of "GW are swimming in millions of revenue and this is the basic box for his new big line , they could have offered us a better box for the price they are gonna ask"

40 Marines, 10 Terminators, 2 Characters, a fully posable Contemptor, and a plastic Spartan all of which can be used by one person in one army for under £200, and you think there should have been more?

 Galas wrote:
I see this as less a case of "We cannot live with 5 torsos" and more a case of "GW are swimming in millions of revenue and this is the basic box for his new big line , they could have offered us a better box for the price they are gonna ask"

And we know, because they have, in other occasions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gert wrote:
40 Marines, 10 Terminators, 2 Characters, a fully posable Contemptor, and a plastic Spartan for under £200 and you want more?

False equivalence. Would you like all that as single pose, three part push fits? People can actually like things, or deals, and still be able to point out the things they don't like out of it. Also yes, yes I do. If you think GW is losing money with that "deal", well, I have a bridge here...

We know for certain it's below £200, most seem happy with the value. Compare it to Indomitus (which itself was universally well recieved iirc) and it seems like an upward trajectory in terms of value provided.

 Galas wrote:
I see this as less a case of "We cannot live with 5 torsos" and more a case of "GW are swimming in millions of revenue and this is the basic box for his new big line , they could have offered us a better box for the price they are gonna ask"

Yeah, pretty much. Most infantry boxes nowadays come with 10 distinct body sculpts, because it's a box of 10 dudes. Sometimes it's two copies of 10 poses if it's a box of 20 (and that still happens sometimes). To make just 5 sculpts for a box of 20 comes off as a bit cheap and lazy.

Indomitus, Dominion and every other 40k/AoS/Fantasy starter set weren't able to be used as one army (with possibly the exception of Dark Vengeance if you could be bothered converting the Dark Angels to CSM or Fallen). The HH box can be used by one person or split between any number of people.

But I'm not talking about the HH box. I'm talking about the MKIV marines box that will be in production much longer than the HH launch box. Betrayal at Calth was a great box. And the plastic contemptor sucked. One thing did not make the other false.

honestly. I like this. the basic models are pretty standard in their poses which is good. 10 UNIQUE poses would have been a problem as we would, inevitably, have gotten that one pose that stood out. which would be a problem as we're not going to have 5 of these models on the board. we're not going to have ten, we're going to have 30+ of these suckers on the board. (given we know special and heavy weapons upgrade sprues are coming that means all our infantry will basicly be one kit) so yeah thank god the poses are "neutral"

 Galas wrote:
But I'm not talking about the HH box. I'm talking about the MKIV marines box that will be in production much longer than the HH launch box. Betrayal at Calth was a great box. And the plastic contemptor sucked. One thing did not make the other false.

Exactly. And if someone doesn't buy the HH deal box, and still buy a box of beakies, for some reason they don't magically get better.

 Galas wrote:
But I'm not talking about the HH box. I'm talking about the MKIV marines box that will be in production much longer than the HH launch box. Betrayal at Calth was a great box. And the plastic contemptor sucked. One thing did not make the other false.

And the MkIV Marines that came in Calth have the same "dynamic" poses as regular 40k Tacticals, which is to say none.


Also, can we just give this a rest, please? Nobody said everyone had to like the new models but every single time a painting tutorial goes up or someone talks about the new models people just jump in with the same thing over and over. We get it you don't like the models, stop whinging about it for god's sake. Find something else to do and save the rest of us from your tedious complaining. 160 pages in the thread and I would put large sums of money on a solid 10-20% being the same argument about the stupid bloody poses.

Apologies if it's been said but for me it's not just that it's 5 torsos for tactical squad guys, it's actually 5 torsos for all the power armoured guys in your army full stop since heavy and support squads are just gun sprues. Gonna be pretty samey.

BrianDavion wrote:
honestly. I like this. the basic models are pretty standard in their poses which is good. 10 UNIQUE poses would have been a problem as we would, inevitably, have gotten that one pose that stood out. which would be a problem as we're not going to have 5 of these models on the board. we're not going to have ten, we're going to have 30+ of these suckers on the board. (given we know special and heavy weapons upgrade sprues are coming that means all our infantry will basicly be one kit) so yeah thank god the poses are "neutral"

I just think we could have got 10 neutral poses. Or at least 5, we basically have 3 in this kit. And for all the talk of them being neutral and therefore not standing out, the repeated poses/sameyness stood out to me straight away when the photos were shown. So I’d rather have had more variety.

The guys at the GW design studio must be loving this thread.

"What's the verdict on the new box? Long awaited HH in plastic, a dream come true for these nerds! And a metric ton of sprues included in the launch box too, with some objectively impressive centrepiece models thrown in there. I bet these guys can't believe their luck!"

"Err, seems to be mixed reviews boss"

JWBS wrote:
The guys at the GW design studio must be loving this thread.

"What's the verdict on the new box? Long awaited HH in plastic, a dream come true for these nerds! And a metric ton of sprues included in the launch box too, with some objectively impressive centrepiece models thrown in there. I bet these guys can't believe their luck!"

"Err, seems to be mixed reviews boss"

Nobody from any company would go to dakka to do a review of customer reactions. A portion of the posters here complain as a hobby with no actual care about what they are complaining about. Some are not even GW customers, they just enjoy joining the fun. And another group just likes everything like a golden-throne retriever.

Terrible terrible place for market research.

I think the only reason the box is priced the way it is, and we getting 40 tacticals in the box, is because those 40 tacs come in 8 identical sprues as opposed to two sets of 4 identical sprues.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Wait, i've seen this before. Next HBMC is going to post his dumb "7 stages of grief" thing or whatever it is and say "you are here", and then we are going to go into how its good actually that all the super-highly-posable classic tactical marines that always end up having the exact same pose as eachother are better, actually, because they all blend in together as a unit on the table, whereas the new dynamically monopose marines are really bad because they "stand out".

Nah dawg. I already said my piece: There's no such thing as mono-pose. You guys taught me that. These models are 100% as dynamic and posable as they've always been. Nothing has ever changed ever. GW design their minis to be as customisable now as they were back in the day and they're even more dynamic now as well... somehow.

Monopose = Myth-o-pose, amirite?

JWBS wrote:
The guys at the GW design studio must be loving this thread.

"What's the verdict on the new box? Long awaited HH in plastic, a dream come true for these nerds! And a metric ton of sprues included in the launch box too, with some objectively impressive centrepiece models thrown in there. I bet these guys can't believe their luck!"

"Err, seems to be mixed reviews boss"

Pretty sure it's what they were expecting. It's almost as if they were always checking what their audience is willing to "allow".

 BrotherGecko wrote:

JWBS wrote:
The guys at the GW design studio must be loving this thread.

"What's the verdict on the new box? Long awaited HH in plastic, a dream come true for these nerds! And a metric ton of sprues included in the launch box too, with some objectively impressive centrepiece models thrown in there. I bet these guys can't believe their luck!"

"Err, seems to be mixed reviews boss"

Nobody from any company would go to dakka to do a review of customer reactions. A portion of the posters here complain as a hobby with no actual care about what they are complaining about. Some are not even GW customers, they just enjoy joining the fun. And another group just likes everything like a golden-throne retriever.

Terrible terrible place for market research.

I guarantee that there's GW guys reading this site. I believe it's the biggest around these days. B&C is a minnow now compared to Dakka. CMON is literally dead. There's maybe reddit as an alternative, fragmented as it is.

 Galas wrote:
I see this as less a case of "We cannot live with 5 torsos" and more a case of "GW are swimming in millions of revenue and this is the basic box for his new big line , they could have offered us a better box for the price they are gonna ask"

Oh, I don't. This is just the usual axes being ground, regardless of whether there's any basis or not.
Same with the usual pitch for 3D printing in an unrelated thread. It never matters, because its just airing grievances... over and over and over again.

JWBS wrote:
The guys at the GW design studio must be loving this thread.

"What's the verdict on the new box? Long awaited HH in plastic, a dream come true for these nerds! And a metric ton of sprues included in the launch box too, with some objectively impressive centrepiece models thrown in there. I bet these guys can't believe their luck!"

"Err, seems to be mixed reviews boss"

Bah. Its never a review. Its just the usual kneejerk in advance. If GW doesn't know to ignore that by now (and factor in all the complainers as sales), they're absolutely not paying attention to dakka threads..

I'm just saying, there's GW peeps here every day, zero doubt. Whether they give a toss what we say or not, whether they are here in their leisure time, they read the board.

JWBS wrote:

I guarantee that there's GW guys reading this site. I believe it's the biggest around these days. B&C is a minnow now compared to Dakka. CMON is literally dead. There's maybe reddit as an alternative, fragmented as it is.

While you're probably right, I'll bet that none of the staff reading are the folks responsible for making the big decisions. Things like how many hours of tooling time are allocated to a given project, or how those hours get assigned to individual sprues.

It'll mostly be store staff looking for rumours on things GW hasn't told them yet, and the odd few studio staff trying to keep ahead of leaks.

 Galas wrote:
I see this as less a case of "We cannot live with 5 torsos" and more a case of "GW are swimming in millions of revenue and this is the basic box for his new big line , they could have offered us a better box for the price they are gonna ask"

I see this as "This is a Specialist Games product", and they generally get very limited amounts of sprues allotted to them each year, have to make do with smaller sprues, and therefore have to come up with creative ways to make a little go a long way. So it being a single sprue of 5 minis doesn't surprise me. Necromunda gangs and Blood Bowl teams are single sprues doubled up that, at the start, often had very limited options, but they are slowly adapting them and making them more modular as time goes on (like the Outcast sprues). Sure there are missteps along the way (Redemptionists), but there are just as many clever solutions as well (eg. two identical sprues making up a single Delaque psychic squid thingy).

Here they've got some very sprue intensive vehicles coming out, so have gone the small single-frame approach to their infantry models (and accessory sprues, which we can see are separate, and not attached in any way). This is a massive undertaking of resources for this group, but I imagine that there have been compromises along the way as a result that may impact other lines.

BrianDavion wrote:
honestly. I like this. the basic models are pretty standard in their poses which is good. 10 UNIQUE poses would have been a problem as we would, inevitably, have gotten that one pose that stood out. which would be a problem as we're not going to have 5 of these models on the board. we're not going to have ten, we're going to have 30+ of these suckers on the board. (given we know special and heavy weapons upgrade sprues are coming that means all our infantry will basicly be one kit) so yeah thank god the poses are "neutral"

Honestly my take as well.

That said I do plan on doing some work on mine, but that's because what's a Night Lords army without some flayed skin and body parts dangling off models?

JWBS wrote:
I'm just saying, there's GW peeps here every day, zero doubt.

You are saying that, yes.
Why they would is kind of a mystery, because its the same 20-25 people with the same script every day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
honestly. I like this. the basic models are pretty standard in their poses which is good. 10 UNIQUE poses would have been a problem as we would, inevitably, have gotten that one pose that stood out. which would be a problem as we're not going to have 5 of these models on the board. we're not going to have ten, we're going to have 30+ of these suckers on the board. (given we know special and heavy weapons upgrade sprues are coming that means all our infantry will basicly be one kit) so yeah thank god the poses are "neutral"

Honestly my take as well.

That said I do plan on doing some work on mine, but that's because what's a Night Lords army without some flayed skin and body parts dangling off models?

Potentially attractive?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I see this as less a case of "We cannot live with 5 torsos" and more a case of "GW are swimming in millions of revenue and this is the basic box for his new big line , they could have offered us a better box for the price they are gonna ask"

I see this as "This is a Specialist Games product", and they generally get very limited amounts of sprues allotted to them each year, have to make do with smaller sprues, and therefore have to come up with creative ways to make a little go a long way. So it being a single sprue of 5 minis doesn't surprise me. Necromunda gangs and Blood Bowl teams are single sprues doubled up that, at the start, often had very limited options, but they are slowly adapting them and making them more modular as time goes on (like the Outcast sprues). Sure there are missteps along the way (Redemptionists), but there are just as many clever solutions as well (eg. two identical sprues making up a single Delaque psychic squid thingy).

Here they've got some very sprue intensive vehicles coming out, so have gone the small single-frame approach to their infantry models (and accessory sprues, which we can see are separate, and not attached in any way). This is a massive undertaking of resources for this group, but I imagine that there have been compromises along the way as a result that may impact other lines.

Very well said.

Every release is a series of compromises to keep it under budget and out on time. We don't always have to like those compromises, but they will always be a factor to what the final release looks like. It's why we got split shoulder pads over ones cast via sliding mold for example.

Voss wrote:
Why they would is kind of a mystery, because its the same 20-25 people with the same script every day.

Like I said to chaos in the other thread: No one's forcing you to be here, so if this is your attitude, why are you?