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 Gordy2000 wrote:
Yeah, where is the explorator? Mine’s sitting on my shelf right now, looking sad….

Did they discontinue the model?

It went LCTB in the great culling....

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Gordy2000 wrote:
Yeah, where is the explorator? Mine’s sitting on my shelf right now, looking sad….

Did they discontinue the model?

It went LCTB in the great culling....

Too bad it isn't one of the models being ported to plastic and 40k like all the marine vehicles.

Totally not feeling vindicated that reactions are bad, at all...

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Too bad it isn't one of the models being ported to plastic and 40k like all the marine vehicles.

There are rumours of a plastic Mechanicum vehicle, alongside Thallax, Castellax and the Thanatar.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Wellp, thats a nail in the coffin of any rumors about 40k Mechanicus being ported over to 30k Mechanicum.

Wasn't there an official statement that they want to port 40k Mechanicus Stuff for 30k Mechanicum?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Balerion wrote:
Talk about underwhelming Heresy Thursday since we already know Liber Mechanicum is coming.
Was really hoping to see Exodus or even Corswain finally, so close to release.
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.

Was hoping for another plastic kit announcement... Predator or Assault Squad...

RazorEdge wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Wellp, thats a nail in the coffin of any rumors about 40k Mechanicus being ported over to 30k Mechanicum.

Wasn't there an official statement that they want to port 40k Mechanicus Stuff for 30k Mechanicum?

I have one word for you...Cyraxis

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I think it's a fairly safe bet the Liber Mechanicum won't have any models associated with it. It was always an extreme long shot, and since the article makes no mention of anything of the sort, I've already placed a small wager on it.

The arlatax doesnt have a model yet, but is listed in the FA section. So model must be coming

Well, plastic models not being mentioned doesn’t mean plastic models aren’t coming.

I suspect they may be a bit down the track, as not unjustifiably it’s Marines O’clock for Heresy.

Bobug wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
I think it's a fairly safe bet the Liber Mechanicum won't have any models associated with it. It was always an extreme long shot, and since the article makes no mention of anything of the sort, I've already placed a small wager on it.

The arlatax doesnt have a model yet, but is listed in the FA section. So model must be coming

Isn't the Arlatax kinda/sorta the basis for the Domitar robots?

RazorEdge wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Wellp, thats a nail in the coffin of any rumors about 40k Mechanicus being ported over to 30k Mechanicum.

Wasn't there an official statement that they want to port 40k Mechanicus Stuff for 30k Mechanicum?

Not that I know of, I only ever saw people wishlist for that. As far as what we know now goes, its not happening anytime soon otherwise it would have been in this book.

The community team has been stating that some stuff such as Skitarii and Secutarii are under the "Appendices" for Mechanicum.

So I found a nice comparison pic of the MK VI MKIII and MK IV armors


over all I think mixed MK VI and MK III armies will be pretty much unnoticable on a scale front

I don't know what optical illusion is making the Mk3 look taller but he's not.

It's also that one specific MkVI model that is taller than the rest due to the pose. It's not in the combat squat most other Marines are so it looks taller, like the Deathwatch and Rubrics.

BrianDavion wrote:
So I found a nice comparison pic of the MK VI MKIII and MK IV armors


over all I think mixed MK VI and MK III armies will be pretty much unnoticable on a scale front

I wonder what the whole thought process was behind all of this from the company leadership?

Initially I had thought that BaC and BoP were just board games set in the HH. At the time, it really seemed as though there was going to be a big push for them to break into the board game market. Later, I started to suspect that maybe they wanted to bring Horus Heresy into plastic, now obviously we are right. But it begs the question, why didn't they rescale the Mk III and IV marines from the get go? And, the follow-up question is, will they do it in the future?

There is so much uncertainty in there that I don't think I'll mess with the Mk III or IV for quite a while until there is reasonable certainty that they aren't going to be rescaled.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
And what about everybody's custom chapters and paintjobs? You know, the things they've spent tens or hundreds of hours painstakingly realizing? Are they all just Imperial Fists in really cunning camouflage now?

Why not? I'm all for people running their Marine armies as whatever rules fit what they wanted to build. No reason to punish someone for having picked the wrong color scheme.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well, plastic models not being mentioned doesn’t mean plastic models aren’t coming.

I suspect they may be a bit down the track, as not unjustifiably it’s Marines O’clock for Heresy.

If you've ever seen TTSD, this reminds me of that one tech priest.

"There may still be a bike in the shed. But so far, we do not know until it is confirmed."

the answer is "a new design philophesy" it's pretty clear that around the time 8th edition 40K came out GW changed their design philophsy for space marines. going from the "classic" design approuch, to one with slightly better proportions and intergrated legs and torsos.

Read Goonhammer's review of the core rules, and wow, it sounds very good indeed. Basically what 8th edition 40k should have been; builds on the core 40k ruleset, with psychology being a big deal like in 3rd edition, but the reactions allow for some more counterplay rather than a full activation system which scales terribly. If someone makes a playable eldar list for this ruleset it I'm all in. Will probably give it a go with my guard once a list for them comes out too. Absolutely love that they're sticking with 6x4 for table size too.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I don't know what optical illusion is making the Mk3 look taller but he's not.

Its a combination of the dropped shoulder on the mk6 and the backpack on the mk3. The top of the left shoulder is at neck height, while the right is at 'ear' height, so the models to each side are at different 'shoulder heights.'
The mk3's backpack goes above the top of his head, while the mk4 is even so its kind of a 'cobra hood' effect that makes the model look 'bigger.'

The respective gorgets may play into it as well.

 Togusa wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
So I found a nice comparison pic of the MK VI MKIII and MK IV armors

over all I think mixed MK VI and MK III armies will be pretty much unnoticable on a scale front

I wonder what the whole thought process was behind all of this from the company leadership?
Initially I had thought that BaC and BoP were just board games set in the HH. At the time, it really seemed as though there was going to be a big push for them to break into the board game market. Later, I started to suspect that maybe they wanted to bring Horus Heresy into plastic, now obviously we are right. But it begs the question, why didn't they rescale the Mk III and IV marines from the get go? And, the follow-up question is, will they do it in the future?
There is so much uncertainty in there that I don't think I'll mess with the Mk III or IV for quite a while until there is reasonable certainty that they aren't going to be rescaled.

The idea that BaC and BoP were attempts at breaking into the board game market was a bad take, those were not "board gamers board games" and everything about them from the contents and the minis, to the not particularly great rules, to the marketing around it was built around the idea of pushing plastic to miniatures gamers with an eye towards lowering barriers to entry into 30k.

They didn't rescale the mk3 and mk4 marines because that wasn't their design paradigm and style at the time that they released. Calth was released in 2015. Prospero was released in 2016. Bigmarines didn't really come about until after 8th edition, starting with the Death Guard and Primaris minis in Dark Imperium starter for 8th edition in 2017 - even still plague marines have always been represented as being larger than typical space marines in the fluff, and Primaris are likewise meant to be a bit larger. Prior to that the Deathwatch marines and Thousand Sons Rubric marine kits released and they were ever so slightly taller and more upright than the preceeding marine miniatures, alongside the 6th edition Dark Vengeance starter chosen (which is excusable by the fact that Chosen were juiced up on chaos magic that made them bigger), but it was barely noticeable and not truly bigmarine style the way the new Mk6 minis are.

It wasn't until sometime later that they indirectly released the first truly bigmarine style firstborn miniatures by way of the space marine heroes gachapon minis and a couple one-off limited minis. The first truly resized firstborn marines (2019 chaos marines notwithstanding) in the regular miniatures range are Castellan Crowe who released last year (alongside Fafnir Rann and Dominion Zephon, but I think those ended up being limited edition?) and the new HH MkVI stuff coming out next week. Hell, even the still very new Age of Sigmars Stormcast Eternals are being rescaled as of the new edition that released last year - the new Stormcast Eternals minis, referred to as wearing "Thunderstrike Armor" to justify the noticeable size and aesthetic differences from the Stormcast minis released just a couple years prior, are similarly taller and less chunky than the preceding minis in the Stormcast range. This is a very new trend for GW that only kicked into effect within the past couple years - so basically, they didn't do it because it wasn't a thing at the time.

As for Mk3 and Mk4 minis being resized - they will do it eventually I think, but I'd guess you will have to wait at least another 3-5 years minimum for that to happen. The Mk3 and Mk4 molds are still relatively new, those kits are all of 6-7 years old at this point. Typically GW only redoes kits once the molds useful life wears out (unless the older sculpt is absolutely horrid to the point that they struggle to sell them - see also: plastic Contemptor), which on average takes between 10-20 years unless its a very hot seller (tactical marines, assault marines, devastator marines, etc. have been redone on like 5-10 year intervals because of this). The Mk3 and Mk4 kits never sold quite as well as the regular mk7/8 marines kits because outside of BaC/BoP their availability was fairly limited (and even BaC/BoP were themselves somewhat limited in their availability), so those molds probably still have some good life left in them. Being fairly recent, there is little incentive for GW to invest into redoing them when they could instead produce Mk2/5 kits, alongside a growing range of vehicles and specialists (assault marines, breacher marines, destroyers, bikers, etc.) in various patterns and marks of armor in the meantime which will sell far better. The sales figures on the 3s and 4s are probably still good and will justify continued production on the existing molds for some time before the cost-curve bends in favor of a resculpted kit.

That being said, its silly to "wait until there is reasonable certainty". By the time you have that reasonable certainty (which I'm guessing is after you see them release mk2, mk 5, deimos predators, vindicators, breacher marines, assault marines, outriders, scimitar jetbikes, javelin land speeders, saturnine terminators, etc. etc. etc. in plastic), mk 3 and 4 resculpts will probably be the only thing left for them to release and next on the slate. Based on the Stormcast Eternals situation with the thunderstrike armor - keepig in mind that they released entirely new units in that style but have not resculpted a single one of the existing minis to match it in the year since release, and also keeping in mind that the original stormcast kits are about the same vintage as the Mk3/4 kits - and also keeping in mind that they just reboxed mk3 and 4 marines into 20-man kits, you aren't going to see resculpts of Mk3 and Mk4 for at least another year at an absolute minimum. In reality it will probably be a good few years longer than that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Re: Scale Comparisons to Mk3 and 4, I've been working from the comparison photos here: https://taleofpainters.com/2022/05/scale-comparison-mkvi-horus-heresy-space-marine-legionaries/?force_isolation=true

The Mk3 marine looks like it stands up well to the Mk6 marine, drawing reference lines across these guys in photoshop, the mk3 marine looks to be only about 1mm shorter than the Mk6 - the backpacks are at the same hieght, the top of the heads are very close, the top of the mk3s eyes are at the same height as the bottom of the mk6 marines eyes, the neckline is about 1-1.5mm lower. Crotch height on the mk3 is about a mm below crotch height on the mk6, but that might be overstated by the fact that there is a plate in the way on the mk3 which is making the crotch look lower, its entirely possible crotch height is almost identical in reality. All in all, these both look like marines that can coexist side by side given natural height variation (it only gets a bit weird when you realize that all the dudes in the one armor type are taller than all the dudes in the other armor type - but maybe its the difference between terran born and homeworld marines). The only major difference in height is from the shoulder pads, which are off about 2-3mm between them, but thats explainable by differences in armor construction and plate thickness, etc.

The Mk4 marine on the other hand... the top of the mk4s eye is about 1-2mm lower than the bottom of the mk3s eyes, putting it about 3mm shorter than the mk6. The backpack is about 5mm shorter than the m3/6, and the neckline is similarly situated between 3-5mm lower (hard to tell from photo because its blocked by the bolter). I think the difference between the 4 and 6 might be too much to look the other way on without some clever modeling to make them seem a bit taller (put them on a thicker/more dramatic base, etc.).

Fafnir Rann is GW store exclusive but still avalaible.

Ielthan wrote:
Read Goonhammer's review of the core rules, and wow, it sounds very good indeed. Basically what 8th edition 40k should have been; builds on the core 40k ruleset, with psychology being a big deal like in 3rd edition, but the reactions allow for some more counterplay rather than a full activation system which scales terribly. If someone makes a playable eldar list for this ruleset it I'm all in. Will probably give it a go with my guard once a list for them comes out too. Absolutely love that they're sticking with 6x4 for table size too.

More like what 7th edition should have been but, yeah. Core rules seems fine.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Re: Scale Comparisons to Mk3 and 4, I've been working from the comparison photos here: https://taleofpainters.com/2022/05/scale-comparison-mkvi-horus-heresy-space-marine-legionaries/?force_isolation=true

The Mk3 marine looks like it stands up well to the Mk6 marine, drawing reference lines across these guys in photoshop, the mk3 marine looks to be only about 1mm shorter than the Mk6 - the backpacks are at the same hieght, the top of the heads are very close, the top of the mk3s eyes are at the same height as the bottom of the mk6 marines eyes, the neckline is about 1-1.5mm lower. Crotch height on the mk3 is about a mm below crotch height on the mk6, but that might be overstated by the fact that there is a plate in the way on the mk3 which is making the crotch look lower, its entirely possible crotch height is almost identical in reality. All in all, these both look like marines that can coexist side by side given natural height variation (it only gets a bit weird when you realize that all the dudes in the one armor type are taller than all the dudes in the other armor type - but maybe its the difference between terran born and homeworld marines). The only major difference in height is from the shoulder pads, which are off about 2-3mm between them, but thats explainable by differences in armor construction and plate thickness, etc.

The Mk4 marine on the other hand... the top of the mk4s eye is about 1-2mm lower than the bottom of the mk3s eyes, putting it about 3mm shorter than the mk6. The backpack is about 5mm shorter than the m3/6, and the neckline is similarly situated between 3-5mm lower (hard to tell from photo because its blocked by the bolter). I think the difference between the 4 and 6 might be too much to look the other way on without some clever modeling to make them seem a bit taller (put them on a thicker/more dramatic base, etc.).

You said everything I was going to and substantially more comprehensively about the history of the firstborn rescale so

I've been rescaling mark iii and iv models this last couple of weeks against the 2019 chaos marine size, using the collar height to benchmark on the basis that the mark vi look to be very close to that. The bulk of the difference is in the legs, the torso length is similar enough. As you say crotch height on the mark 3 is hidden by the torso plate but it's definitely lower. I think the mark iii feels more like 2mm shorter overall (depending upon pose) - the mark iii pack and helmet are quite chunky, which makes them look taller than they are at the neck, which matters when you use smaller forgeworld helmets - but it's fixable with some green stuff at the waist and neck, and optionally some under the feet (or creative basing) to get to equivalent height. Mark IV are basically old-scale marines, plus the squat, so are visibly shorter even than mark iii, so will need chonky bases indeed to compensate. 3d printed replacement legs also works...

Do we know whether the new contemptor is compatible with the fw arms control or if the new arms fit the FW contemptor?

zanzibarthefirst wrote:
Do we know whether the new contemptor is compatible with the fw arms control or if the new arms fit the FW contemptor?

Something's gotta to be compatible with something because right now FW will sell you fancy Contemtpors but don't sell arms for them.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

zanzibarthefirst wrote:
Do we know whether the new contemptor is compatible with the fw arms control or if the new arms fit the FW contemptor?

Something's gotta to be compatible with something because right now FW will sell you fancy Contemtpors but don't sell arms for them.

Pretty much the same joins.

 arkhanist wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Re: Scale Comparisons to Mk3 and 4, I've been working from the comparison photos here: https://taleofpainters.com/2022/05/scale-comparison-mkvi-horus-heresy-space-marine-legionaries/?force_isolation=true

The Mk3 marine looks like it stands up well to the Mk6 marine, drawing reference lines across these guys in photoshop, the mk3 marine looks to be only about 1mm shorter than the Mk6 - the backpacks are at the same hieght, the top of the heads are very close, the top of the mk3s eyes are at the same height as the bottom of the mk6 marines eyes, the neckline is about 1-1.5mm lower. Crotch height on the mk3 is about a mm below crotch height on the mk6, but that might be overstated by the fact that there is a plate in the way on the mk3 which is making the crotch look lower, its entirely possible crotch height is almost identical in reality. All in all, these both look like marines that can coexist side by side given natural height variation (it only gets a bit weird when you realize that all the dudes in the one armor type are taller than all the dudes in the other armor type - but maybe its the difference between terran born and homeworld marines). The only major difference in height is from the shoulder pads, which are off about 2-3mm between them, but thats explainable by differences in armor construction and plate thickness, etc.

The Mk4 marine on the other hand... the top of the mk4s eye is about 1-2mm lower than the bottom of the mk3s eyes, putting it about 3mm shorter than the mk6. The backpack is about 5mm shorter than the m3/6, and the neckline is similarly situated between 3-5mm lower (hard to tell from photo because its blocked by the bolter). I think the difference between the 4 and 6 might be too much to look the other way on without some clever modeling to make them seem a bit taller (put them on a thicker/more dramatic base, etc.).

You said everything I was going to and substantially more comprehensively about the history of the firstborn rescale so

I've been rescaling mark iii and iv models this last couple of weeks against the 2019 chaos marine size, using the collar height to benchmark on the basis that the mark vi look to be very close to that. The bulk of the difference is in the legs, the torso length is similar enough. As you say crotch height on the mark 3 is hidden by the torso plate but it's definitely lower. I think the mark iii feels more like 2mm shorter overall (depending upon pose) - the mark iii pack and helmet are quite chunky, which makes them look taller than they are at the neck, which matters when you use smaller forgeworld helmets - but it's fixable with some green stuff at the waist and neck, and optionally some under the feet (or creative basing) to get to equivalent height. Mark IV are basically old-scale marines, plus the squat, so are visibly shorter even than mark iii, so will need chonky bases indeed to compensate. 3d printed replacement legs also works...

Yeah, for Mk3 I was thinking of elongating them at the torso, just insert a 1-2 mm spacer at the joint between their chest/upper torso and their waist/lower torso. It'll give them the height necessary to blend in and make them appear a bit less chunky/a bit leaner next to the mk6. Having done the same with other marine sculpts in the past I don't think it should present much of an issue aesthetically speaking and doesn't require cutting/resculpting. Whatever height I can't get from the spacer at the torso I can get from putting a spacer under their feet so they sit a bit higher on the base. Can also try a spacer at the neck instead so that the pack doesn't sit too high up etc. I think they'll blend in just fine with the spacers.

Mk4 will be more challenging and I'm not sure I can get there without cutting and resculpting. Spacers at the foot, torso, and neck are going to be mandatory, but even that is probably going to still come up short height wise. If it does, I'm going to need to to do what you suggested and look into 3d printed replacement legs that correct the height issue a bit... let me know if you got any leads on some good stls for it

Actually for me I usually just add a dab of green stuff between the torso section and lower half. That adjusts there height pretty well.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
And what about everybody's custom chapters and paintjobs? You know, the things they've spent tens or hundreds of hours painstakingly realizing? Are they all just Imperial Fists in really cunning camouflage now?

Why not? I'm all for people running their Marine armies as whatever rules fit what they wanted to build. No reason to punish someone for having picked the wrong color scheme.

Not when (in the hypothetical scenario I outlined above) you're already punishing them by forcibly turning their army into a 30k force whether they wanted to or not, meaning they'll be stuck fighting against other Marines 90% of the time