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Well, at least it's more exciting than the Thousand Sons preview. Good grief, I'm not sure you could have made that less underwhelming.

 Herodius wrote:
1. Dynamic Insertion on Voldus near a character.
2. Smite (or Purge Soul or some other power) + Empyric Surge.
3. Vortex of Doom + Psychic Channeling = ~35% chance for d6 MW.
4. Gate of Infinity out.
5. ????
6. Profit

Or you could get, i dunno , -1 army wide ap for just showing up?

Pancakey wrote:

 Herodius wrote:
1. Dynamic Insertion on Voldus near a character.
2. Smite (or Purge Soul or some other power) + Empyric Surge.
3. Vortex of Doom + Psychic Channeling = ~35% chance for d6 MW.
4. Gate of Infinity out.
5. ????
6. Profit

Or you could get, i dunno , -1 army wide ap for just showing up?

But we didn't, so I'm working with what we've got.

 Herodius wrote:
1. Dynamic Insertion on Voldus near a character.
2. Smite (or Purge Soul or some other power) + Empyric Surge.
3. Vortex of Doom + Psychic Channeling = ~35% chance for d6 MW.
4. Gate of Infinity out.
5. ????
6. Profit

Made me LoL at work, interesting little combo there. =)

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
Well, at least it's more exciting than the Thousand Sons preview. Good grief, I'm not sure you could have made that less underwhelming.

Could have made them Grey Knights!

Pancakey wrote:

 Herodius wrote:
1. Dynamic Insertion on Voldus near a character.
2. Smite (or Purge Soul or some other power) + Empyric Surge.
3. Vortex of Doom + Psychic Channeling = ~35% chance for d6 MW.
4. Gate of Infinity out.
5. ????
6. Profit

Or you could get, i dunno , -1 army wide ap for just showing up?

LOL dude...MSU GK are going to be a dominating force. 30+ mortals coming out of your army a turn at 24" with a bro champ. Plus probably about 300 ROF shots a turn. -1 AP is nothing compared do doing flat 2 mortals a turn with every unit in your army. It's literally not even close. GK are going to wipe the floor with marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
Well, at least it's more exciting than the Thousand Sons preview. Good grief, I'm not sure you could have made that less underwhelming.

I am interested to see more from the TS. Their relic is pretty darn good. Use to support magnus. You could roll double 1's for your smite - change one to a 6 and reroll the other and you have a 66% chance for 2d6 smite. Really looking forward to that.

Infiltrating a 20 man rubric and DMC 10 terms and just go to town on a flank. Seems pretty strong. The GK release is superior ofc but it should be. GK were utra bad. TS Mono is below average but as soup element is god tier. This should help them be a mono force. Some new spells - new tricks - hopefully some for of army wide buff coming in later releases but that doesn't seem to be the theme for chaos :(. We still don't know if you can take multiple detachment types in a single TS army. That will be a big deciding factor if this is good or not.

When I first saw dynamic insertion I thought it was made specially for purifiers with a nearby brother captain/relic banner for some mega-smiting, forgetting that they can't teleport strike. With that in mind though - is there anything cheaper than a storm raven that can get purifiers into a good position?

Insularum wrote:
When I first saw dynamic insertion I thought it was made specially for purifiers with a nearby brother captain/relic banner for some mega-smiting, forgetting that they can't teleport strike. With that in mind though - is there anything cheaper than a storm raven that can get purifiers into a good position?

Walking? I mean, it's not a good way to get into position, but when and if you get there, it's a good position. And it's cheap.

AngryAngel80 wrote:The question is, is Karol happy ? That I want to know, as this is good news for the GK.

Karol wrote:very happy.

* tumbles of the chair in a fit of "I cant believe what I just seen" ***

I got back on my chair...


Can ven dreads get teleport strike??

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
Well, at least it's more exciting than the Thousand Sons preview. Good grief, I'm not sure you could have made that less underwhelming.

My interest is piqued.

I imagine soup within TS will be required to bleed as much as possible out of it.

You have an 11 in 36 to roll a 1. That staff will get used every turn and is far better than almost all current TS relics.

And I guess people dont like SoT, but they're one of the best terminators and rezzing them seems worthwhile.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Argive wrote:


Can ven dreads get teleport strike??

Nada. Just stratagem.

Insularum wrote:
When I first saw dynamic insertion I thought it was made specially for purifiers with a nearby brother captain/relic banner for some mega-smiting, forgetting that they can't teleport strike. With that in mind though - is there anything cheaper than a storm raven that can get purifiers into a good position?

Rhino is the cheapest way but purifiers are really just strikes that can take 2 heavies at 5. Just use them as a shooty unit and if anyone is dumb enough to get close to them blast them with d6+1 Smite lol. However I think think strike squads are better at this point because they give you CP and with the flat 2 smite at 24" next to a bro champ...they even smite better.




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 Daedalus81 wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
Well, at least it's more exciting than the Thousand Sons preview. Good grief, I'm not sure you could have made that less underwhelming.

My interest is piqued.

I imagine soup within TS will be required to bleed as much as possible out of it.

You have an 11 in 36 to roll a 1. That staff will get used every turn and is far better than almost all current TS relics.

And I guess people dont like SoT, but they're one of the best terminators and rezzing them seems worthwhile.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Argive wrote:


Can ven dreads get teleport strike??

Nada. Just stratagem.

That relic is amazing. It is easily worth a command reroll every turn with the added bonus of probably giving you a super smite in the process. It just doesn't scream power out in the most obvious way. Likely it will always be used offensively but say you don't roll and 1's in your turn and you opponent for some reason decided they want to be 18" away from you...yeah..you are about to have some real fun if they roll poorly. However I am not sure how the interactions with command reoll will work for this. If your opponent rolls a say a 6and 1 on a psychic test against this relic - can you use the relic after they command reroll their 1 say if they needed an 8 to cast a power? No clear guidance how that interaction would work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

stormcraft wrote:
Psycannon with the buff are s8, - 1,d2, thats a really Solid Profile in 8e. You get 16 shots for 101 points in purgators, thats the same output as a butcher cannon leviathan. Sure, only 24 Range and a lot More fragile, bit only a third in points also

Hitting on 4s, don’t forget.
A closer comparison would be a Decimator, who gets 8 butcher shots. Dreadnought profile with a 5++ for 140pts.

We are hoping for reroll all hits aura from new Draigo (likely our new model) and in that case you are hitting 75%...still really good.

no one wants tro talk about the 3" DS stuff now

 Herodius wrote:
1. Dynamic Insertion on Voldus near a character.
2. Smite (or Purge Soul or some other power) + Empyric Surge.
3. Vortex of Doom + Psychic Channeling = ~35% chance for d6 MW.
4. Gate of Infinity out.
5. ????
6. Profit

Even better - banner of refining flame ancient with warlord trait for reroll charges. Set him up 4" away. Deep strike With giant unit of paladins (or just a bunch of units) behind him. Cast the + 1 to cast power with 1 of those units. Psychic Channeling then - Cast the ancient smite. Spend 1 CP to cast vortex. Then charge around the ancient and get +1 attack with all your boys within 6" of ancient.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
Well, at least it's more exciting than the Thousand Sons preview. Good grief, I'm not sure you could have made that less underwhelming.

My interest is piqued.

I imagine soup within TS will be required to bleed as much as possible out of it.

You have an 11 in 36 to roll a 1. That staff will get used every turn and is far better than almost all current TS relics.

And I guess people dont like SoT, but they're one of the best terminators and rezzing them seems worthwhile.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Argive wrote:


Can ven dreads get teleport strike??

Nada. Just stratagem.

Pity.. I was thinking teleport behind enemy character 3" away and blam!! 2 twin las cannons to the face

Pancakey wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
For examples of when they didn't preview the best, the BT preview had the suck-tacular LRC stratagem rather than the no-fallback or run-and-charge stratagem.

Lets hope GK will have some aweso.... ahh who am I kidding. GK prolly gonna get squatted in CA 2020. I can see it now...

“Redace all your grE knight models cust to “0” and threw those in the trush.” With faq coming soon after for clarity.

Not getting squatted any time soon. On the official warhammer 40k Facebook page they said yesterday there will be a release regarding GK primaris in the future.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
no one wants tro talk about the 3" DS stuff now

Why not?
Contesting objectives and 8" flamers will benefit from it.

Incinerators are just not good Enough at the moment. Maybe if we get a really good stratagem to push them, atm you could just drop 4 Psilencers 9 Away.

But I still think you can do really good things with the stratagem.
- Objective Grabbing
- Character Sniping
- Forcing really tight screening

Dropping Voldus next to an enemy Support Chracter and then smite / Purge / Vortex could really hurt, and maybe we get evene better offensive spells in the new discipline who knows

 Xenomancers wrote:

Pancakey wrote:

 Herodius wrote:
1. Dynamic Insertion on Voldus near a character.
2. Smite (or Purge Soul or some other power) + Empyric Surge.
3. Vortex of Doom + Psychic Channeling = ~35% chance for d6 MW.
4. Gate of Infinity out.
5. ????
6. Profit

Or you could get, i dunno , -1 army wide ap for just showing up?

LOL dude...MSU GK are going to be a dominating force. 30+ mortals coming out of your army a turn at 24" with a bro champ. Plus probably about 300 ROF shots a turn. -1 AP is nothing compared do doing flat 2 mortals a turn with every unit in your army. It's literally not even close. GK are going to wipe the floor with marines.

I seriously doubt it. You're still looking at a basic Marine costing the same as an Intercessor. Those Smites are good but even with the bonus to cast you'll fail probably 1 a turn and have another denied and then your MSU units start falling apart quickly under regular SM fire. I think the new GK stuff makes them better for sure but I don't see them dominating SM without GW doing something to fix the absurd power of the various SM armies.

Slipspace wrote:


I seriously doubt it. You're still looking at a basic Marine costing the same as an Intercessor. Those Smites are good but even with the bonus to cast you'll fail probably 1 a turn and have another denied and then your MSU units start falling apart quickly under regular SM fire. I think the new GK stuff makes them better for sure but I don't see them dominating SM without GW doing something to fix the absurd power of the various SM armies.

The interesting thing is that with so many marine armies taking so many Stalker Bolt Rifles it works out surprisingly close

GK shooting Intercessors http://40k.ghostlords.com/dice/#attacks=20&bs=3&s=4&d=1&t=4&save=3&wounds=2

Stalker Intercessors shooting GK http://40k.ghostlords.com/dice/#attacks=5&bs=3&ap=3&s=4&d=2&t=4&save=3&wounds=1&hit_reroll=1

In pure shooting, the Intercessors have a slight edge but it is in no way decisive. Not decisive enough to balance out the number of smites which will get through or the much better CC capability of the GK Strikes. In a straight head to head the GK strikes look as good as the current top-tier marine troop choice.

Clearly if the marines go with Auto Bolt rifles and Tactical Doctrine they get the shooting advantage back - but that is a very different marine build and if GK are good enough to force people away from what is currently the optimal build that would be an amazing improvement in how relevant GK are.

I seriously doubt it. You're still looking at a basic Marine costing the same as an Intercessor. Those Smites are good but even with the bonus to cast you'll fail probably 1 a turn and have another denied and then your MSU units start falling apart quickly under regular SM fire. I think the new GK stuff makes them better for sure but I don't see them dominating SM without GW doing something to fix the absurd power of the various SM armies.

This is certainly the issue GK players will face despite the announced changes.
The army will fall apart, maybe not as easy as now but the ways to counter this are limited.
IH and IF are still out of reach.

Tbf nothing should be at the current ich if level.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
My interest is piqued.

I imagine soup within TS will be required to bleed as much as possible out of it.

You have an 11 in 36 to roll a 1. That staff will get used every turn and is far better than almost all current TS relics.

And I guess people dont like SoT, but they're one of the best terminators and rezzing them seems worthwhile.

I don't think they've significantly changed or improved TS. They will continue to exist as a spot detachment to shoehorn Ahriman into armies.

Mono-TS will probably get a 1-2% bump in win rate, but the fundamental problems of the army continue to exist and GW has shown no interest or creativity in addressing them.

I mean, the most original thing they've done is add Tzaangor to give them a hand to hand element. Pretty sure TS has been assigned a part-time junior designer who's primary focus is something else entirely.

That's it.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
My interest is piqued.

I imagine soup within TS will be required to bleed as much as possible out of it.

You have an 11 in 36 to roll a 1. That staff will get used every turn and is far better than almost all current TS relics.

And I guess people dont like SoT, but they're one of the best terminators and rezzing them seems worthwhile.

I don't think they've significantly changed or improved TS. They will continue to exist as a spot detachment to shoehorn Ahriman into armies.

Mono-TS will probably get a 1-2% bump in win rate, but the fundamental problems of the army continue to exist and GW has shown no interest or creativity in addressing them.

I mean, the most original thing they've done is add Tzaangor to give them a hand to hand element. Pretty sure TS has been assigned a part-time junior designer who's primary focus is something else entirely.

That's it.

The biggest problem with SOTs is that

1) They are competing with the actual best terminators in the game, because chaos is still a soup-only faction and GW seems uninterested in preventing mandatory soup anywhere but the imperium factions

2) their big draw was AP-2 boltguns. Marines now get AP-1 boltguns on the turn their terminators arrive. And they get chapter tactics.

3) They exacerbate the "Can in a game of Can Openers" problem terminators have had for 3 editions by having another extra rule that only works if you DONT fire the kind of wepaon you shoot terminators with at them, and they pay for that rule.

Not having to pay for melee weapons on a unit that at the end of the day isn't great at melee is a good plus for SoTs. But I think most chaos soup players will continue to say BEGONE SOT and just not take them.

I'm really interested in the new Dominus powers. Do people think they are going to be restricted to Hqs/characters for instance. Might be worth taking other supporting units like apothecaries to have redundant casters for the swapping power.

Did GK get access to the upgrades from faith and Fury? Some of the new litanies would be nice, or getting the reroll to revive one of the 40+ point terminators

 fraser1191 wrote:
I'm really interested in the new Dominus powers. Do people think they are going to be restricted to Hqs/characters for instance. Might be worth taking other supporting units like apothecaries to have redundant casters for the swapping power.

Did GK get access to the upgrades from faith and Fury? Some of the new litanies would be nice, or getting the reroll to revive one of the 40+ point terminators

Nope, those were restricted to codex space marines for no reason.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Pancakey wrote:

 Herodius wrote:
1. Dynamic Insertion on Voldus near a character.
2. Smite (or Purge Soul or some other power) + Empyric Surge.
3. Vortex of Doom + Psychic Channeling = ~35% chance for d6 MW.
4. Gate of Infinity out.
5. ????
6. Profit

Or you could get, i dunno , -1 army wide ap for just showing up?

LOL dude...MSU GK are going to be a dominating force. 30+ mortals coming out of your army a turn at 24" with a bro champ. Plus probably about 300 ROF shots a turn. -1 AP is nothing compared do doing flat 2 mortals a turn with every unit in your army. It's literally not even close. GK are going to wipe the floor with marines.

This post dominates SM too.

the_scotsman wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
I'm really interested in the new Dominus powers. Do people think they are going to be restricted to Hqs/characters for instance. Might be worth taking other supporting units like apothecaries to have redundant casters for the swapping power.

Did GK get access to the upgrades from faith and Fury? Some of the new litanies would be nice, or getting the reroll to revive one of the 40+ point terminators

Nope, those were restricted to codex space marines for no reason.

That literally makes no sense.

the_scotsman wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
My interest is piqued.

I imagine soup within TS will be required to bleed as much as possible out of it.

You have an 11 in 36 to roll a 1. That staff will get used every turn and is far better than almost all current TS relics.

And I guess people dont like SoT, but they're one of the best terminators and rezzing them seems worthwhile.

I don't think they've significantly changed or improved TS. They will continue to exist as a spot detachment to shoehorn Ahriman into armies.

Mono-TS will probably get a 1-2% bump in win rate, but the fundamental problems of the army continue to exist and GW has shown no interest or creativity in addressing them.

I mean, the most original thing they've done is add Tzaangor to give them a hand to hand element. Pretty sure TS has been assigned a part-time junior designer who's primary focus is something else entirely.

That's it.

The biggest problem with SOTs is that

1) They are competing with the actual best terminators in the game, because chaos is still a soup-only faction and GW seems uninterested in preventing mandatory soup anywhere but the imperium factions

2) their big draw was AP-2 boltguns. Marines now get AP-1 boltguns on the turn their terminators arrive. And they get chapter tactics.

3) They exacerbate the "Can in a game of Can Openers" problem terminators have had for 3 editions by having another extra rule that only works if you DONT fire the kind of wepaon you shoot terminators with at them, and they pay for that rule.

Not having to pay for melee weapons on a unit that at the end of the day isn't great at melee is a good plus for SoTs. But I think most chaos soup players will continue to say BEGONE SOT and just not take them.

You're both not wrong, but still a bit sour on it, I think. 40 bolt rifles (equivalent points) kills one SoT, which then comes back. SoT otherwise kill 6 Intercessors with VotLW (note that AP2 is worth twice as many shots as combi-bolters). Stalkers would be bad news, of course, but given I deepstrike and they don't I have some edge.

I'm just hoping Cult of Time has some other charge/movement bonuses to get them into combat. Slap that along with "deepstriking" a Defiler from Duplicity.

It doesn't make TS "better", but it makes it harder for them to deal with me.

I remain mostly optimistic.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I'm just hoping Cult of Time has some other charge/movement bonuses to get them into combat. Slap that along with "deepstriking" a Defiler from Duplicity.

It doesn't make TS "better", but it makes it harder for them to deal with me.

I remain mostly optimistic.

It doesn't really matter. I don't see anything to make me spend money on GW products, ultimately, that's a good thing.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I'm just hoping Cult of Time has some other charge/movement bonuses to get them into combat. Slap that along with "deepstriking" a Defiler from Duplicity.

It doesn't make TS "better", but it makes it harder for them to deal with me.

I remain mostly optimistic.

It doesn't really matter. I don't see anything to make me spend money on GW products, ultimately, that's a good thing.

*shrug* I won't be buying the book, either (until I know it has enough value to me).