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As I've heard it, RED is just kind of a reprinting. It doesn't change the fundamental game which has been almost universally described to me as: "It's so much fun but the systems age shows." Most reviewers have said that Interface Zero's supplement for Savage Worlds and Eclipse Phase second edition are better TTRPGs with similar themes (Interface Zero for straight cyberpunk, Eclipse Phase with more high scifi/in space content)

That sort of character was part of the genre back then. Remember that we're talking late '80s, shifting into the '90s. Cyberpunk wasn't the only genre that had this issue. Comic books, for instance, were shifting into the infamous "Dark Age of Comic Books", with 'edgy' characters who frequently were self-centered and unlikable. Mike Pondsmith (there - I said the P-word) writes his characters according to the genre. If you look through the old Mekton books you find characters that fit with giant robot anime (since Mekton is an RPG focused on giant robot anime), and as a result the characters in published setting (Algol) - aside from the villains - tend to be much more friendly. Castle Falkenstein is R. Talsorian's other notable game, but I'm not familiar with that one. So I don't know what the characters in that setting are like.

The company started with Mekton, and I suspect that's where Mike Pondsmith's sympathies ultimately lie (since the last big project he was working on before CDPR called was a crowdsourced reboot of Mekton). But Cyberpunk has the most fans by far, and sells product, which is why there's so much more stuff for it in comparison with the company's other games. That's why Cyberpunk got the V3 rulebook without crowdfunding, while Mekton Zero had to turn to Kickstarter.

Mind you, Cyberpunk V3 was a flop. And not just because of the bad art direction.


Cyberpunk Red is essentially a reversion of the game to the Cyberpunk 2020 setting, with some updates (and possibly a switch from the Interlock system that R. Talsorian used over to the similar Fuzion system). Additionally, CDPR purchased the rights to the setting after a specific date (IIRC, either 2050 or 2070). R. Talsorian Games owns the setting before that date, and can continue to release products focused on the earlier time periods so long as it doesn't screw up the timeline. But CDPR owns the setting after that date. So Cyberpunk Red is also tasked with giving GMs a timeline if they want to match their events up with the backstory to CDPR's new game.

I mean in regard to how well it's aged IMHO of the two cyberpunk TRPG properties I think shadowrun has, as a setting, proably aged a bit better,

I have been doing a second playthrough of the game and I'm actually enjoying the game more now. I'm totally ignoring the faked sense of urgency and not bothering with the main questline so much (will finish it eventually of course).
Just doing the side missions and exploring is fun. I'm noticing that I missed a ton of content in my first playthrough.

I'm enjoying the Panam storyline the most and would not actually mind if the whole game was just following Panam and the Nomads and doing heists for them… I wouldn't actually miss much of the Arasaka content.

Johnny hardly ever turns up when you are just goofing around, so I'm actually forgetting about him and the fact he sits in my brain and is eating it up…

Installed Mantis blades this time (found a free pair in a box) and they are lots of fun to use. Way more fun than the monofil rope I did in the first playthrough.

BrianDavion wrote:
I mean in regard to how well it's aged IMHO of the two cyberpunk TRPG properties I think shadowrun has, as a setting, proably aged a bit better,

For a while, partly because the setting updates were planned and FASA put together a really strict setting bible that was followed for quite a while (even after FASA itself collapsed). They had, for example, really strict rules on what magic was capable of, and what various classes of spirits could do.
The big hole was always the Matrix, which changed every edition and also usually got an 'updated revision' every edition. The big problem was that the decker was essentially playing a solo game separate from the party, and that is inherently problematic at a table (significantly less so in a CRPG)

Catalyst, however, has driven Shadowrun off a cliff and shredded the setting bible that kept it coherent. And are also just utterly terrible at rules.

The Net as a solo game is, I suspect, part of the reason why Cyberpunk eventually just blew it up (via Rache Bartmoss). The abandoned V3 basically forced a Netrunner to be on-site in order to do any sort of hacking.

The video game seems like it can't make up its mind, though. Your own hacking is basically the newer "on-site only" version. But you encounter plenty of other netrunners doing remote hacks from their lairs.

Eumerin wrote:
The Net as a solo game is, I suspect, part of the reason why Cyberpunk eventually just blew it up (via Rache Bartmoss). The abandoned V3 basically forced a Netrunner to be on-site in order to do any sort of hacking.

The video game seems like it can't make up its mind, though. Your own hacking is basically the newer "on-site only" version. But you encounter plenty of other netrunners doing remote hacks from their lairs.

Netrunning from a lair would have been another 6-12 months of development at a minimum, and for what? You can't loot anything until you head over there. Every story quest wouldn't work, escort quests wouldn't work, retrieval quests wouldn't work. Lair Netrunning would only work for killing and would only reward XP.

 trexmeyer wrote:

Eumerin wrote:
The Net as a solo game is, I suspect, part of the reason why Cyberpunk eventually just blew it up (via Rache Bartmoss). The abandoned V3 basically forced a Netrunner to be on-site in order to do any sort of hacking.

The video game seems like it can't make up its mind, though. Your own hacking is basically the newer "on-site only" version. But you encounter plenty of other netrunners doing remote hacks from their lairs.

Netrunning from a lair would have been another 6-12 months of development at a minimum, and for what? You can't loot anything until you head over there. Every story quest wouldn't work, escort quests wouldn't work, retrieval quests wouldn't work. Lair Netrunning would only work for killing and would only reward XP.

could work for heists as well. . . a lot of computers in world have files with information relevant to, or unlocking certain missions. . . Additionally, there's the monetary component. It definitely seems as though Eddies are physical as well as "credit" within the world. Further options for use could be, as you said, you cannot loot anything till you get there. The game has been largely built around "many ways to skin a cat" ideas. . . If a door requires 15 strength to rip open, there's an alternate technical way in, or there's another way if you have double jump. But, as you said, dev times are an issue in a game that already had lengthy development, and a large amount of content to begin with.

Ultimately all methods require your physical presence. I'm more concerned that your skills basically get completely ignored. You could be 20 INT/20 Breach Protocol/20 QuickHacking and still get treated the same.

One thing I find pretty annoying is that literally every enemy place has a net-runner guarding it and short of disabling all the cameras, which admittedly isn't hard, you can't hide from the buggers once you've blown your stealth. At the very least, it would be cool if you could do the same back to him what he's doing to you. Trace his signature back to his lair and disable him remotely.

It might also be nice if they had a feature where you could go implant free to become immune to enemy netrunners, or get an expensive isolated system upgrade that could seal your body off from any outside interference. You can't hack something if it doesn't have a wireless interface!

Eumerin wrote:
The Net as a solo game is, I suspect, part of the reason why Cyberpunk eventually just blew it up (via Rache Bartmoss). The abandoned V3 basically forced a Netrunner to be on-site in order to do any sort of hacking.

The video game seems like it can't make up its mind, though. Your own hacking is basically the newer "on-site only" version. But you encounter plenty of other netrunners doing remote hacks from their lairs.

If they had kept the EMP stat as a hard limit/balance on how much cyberwear you can have it might have been more of a choice to have a hacking build rather than everyone can do it.

Netrunning in both Shadowrun and Cyberpunk was in my experience either a decidated game type or something that happened off screen as it did not (for us at least) work well with the flow of the game.

t might also be nice if they had a feature where you could go implant free to become immune to enemy netrunners, or get an expensive isolated system upgrade that could seal your body off from any outside interference. You can't hack something if it doesn't have a wireless interface!

Shaodwrun has/had (?) this.

Ultimately all methods require your physical presence. I'm more concerned that your skills basically get completely ignored. You could be 20 INT/20 Breach Protocol/20 QuickHacking and still get treated the same.

Its part of the huge amount of the game that was cut/ unfinished I think

 Grey Templar wrote:
One thing I find pretty annoying is that literally every enemy place has a net-runner guarding it and short of disabling all the cameras, which admittedly isn't hard, you can't hide from the buggers once you've blown your stealth. At the very least, it would be cool if you could do the same back to him what he's doing to you. Trace his signature back to his lair and disable him remotely.

It might also be nice if they had a feature where you could go implant free to become immune to enemy netrunners, or get an expensive isolated system upgrade that could seal your body off from any outside interference. You can't hack something if it doesn't have a wireless interface!

There is an implant that blocks a hack, with a 45 second cooldown.
And a implant (or skill?, I forget) that highlights netrunners that attack you.

Both are pretty useful for finding the annoying little bugs

It's a skill that highlights netrunners. But they're usually six rooms away watching you through the cameras.

I finally did the Solo ending and it's definitely the most fun, but also the hardest.

Eumerin wrote:
It's a skill that highlights netrunners. But they're usually six rooms away watching you through the cameras.

Ah. I prioritize cameras either with the breach perk that allows you to shut them all down, or running up and turning them off for the engineering points (or both, because for some reason, that works). Other than athletics, its the hardest skill to raise, so it's always on my list.
So generally hacking me through cameras isn't an option.

Voss wrote:

Eumerin wrote:
It's a skill that highlights netrunners. But they're usually six rooms away watching you through the cameras.

Ah. I prioritize cameras either with the breach perk that allows you to shut them all down, or running up and turning them off for the engineering points (or both, because for some reason, that works). Other than athletics, its the hardest skill to raise, so it's always on my list.
So generally hacking me through cameras isn't an option.

yeah generally I tend to stealth into an area, pick off the guards and hack the cameras. ideally if I even "go hot" at all. by then the cameras etc aren't a problem

 trexmeyer wrote:
I finally did the Solo ending and it's definitely the most fun, but also the hardest.

What is the Solo ending?

Edit:I googled it. Looks like it'll be a hard fight... But in the end it is not really a different ending, just a modification of another ending. Cool to have that choise though.

The Don't Fear the Reaper ending was quite hard, and I went into it with a character as maxed out as it can be.

It's the ending that made me notice the stats screen is wonky. I can't tell if critical hit/damage numbers aren't adding up at all, if they're just not displaying right, or if they're additive or multiplicative.

I also learned that there are a lot of things that explode at the end, and the monowire is more likely to kill you than help you up to the final boss fight XD

 Col Hammer wrote:

 trexmeyer wrote:
I finally did the Solo ending and it's definitely the most fun, but also the hardest.

What is the Solo ending?

Edit:I googled it. Looks like it'll be a hard fight... But in the end it is not really a different ending, just a modification of another ending. Cool to have that choise though.

Character Deaths:


I've seen a lot of people express love for Takemura, but he's honestly

IMO:

I've seen a lot of people express love for Takemura,

Takemura's storyline is honestly baffling. He was the boss' bodyguard. He failed, and is currently disgraced. So his plan (as he explains it) feels strictly like 'suicide by cop.'

He needed to come up with something different as soon as his initial contact brushes him off, as his method of showing up for a 'surprise meeting' should be met with lots of guns and bullets.

LordofHats wrote:It's the ending that made me notice the stats screen is wonky. I can't tell if critical hit/damage numbers aren't adding up at all, if they're just not displaying right, or if they're additive or multiplicative.

Yeah. I've noticed crit chance caps out on the screen, but I'm not sure that's actually true. Spiffing Brit did an (well, several) exploit videos, but armor doesn't calculate right at all. You actually get higher armor numbers if you use a mix of lower number armor mods rather than all maxed-out ones. Because programming.

They definitely have some issues with their multiplier coding, both in terms of balance and just how its calculated.

CD Projekt has posted a video on the lead up to launch and what went wrong for old gen consoles (for anyone who cares).

https://www.pcgamer.com/cd-projekt-apologizes-for-cyberpunk-2077-again-new-update-roadmap-pushes-back-dlc-for-fixes/

They also posted a roadmap which is... uh. Useless? [Spoiling in case its too big]

I guess its worth knowing that they expect 1.1 and 1.2 patches (early?) this year, along with some free DLC and vague 'multiple updates.'

But apparently getting things working on old consoles will take priority over new stuff and they're vowing not to put their people on crunch or 'obligatory overtime'

apparently getting things working on old consoles will take priority over new stuff

Quite right given the millions of games they sold to those with older consoles with lies.

At least the board have admitted fault to a certain extent in the video - well as much as is likely with a law suit ongoing.

Hopefuly it will continue to improve and they might even put some NPC/Police AI into the game to raise it past PS1 levels.

Can't imagine the CEOs of EA or Activision Blizzard going on camera and apologizing like that. Just a matter of follow-through, now.

As far as the next big two patches go, they had said previously one for January and one for February. We'll see just how big they are and what they fix.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Can't imagine the CEOs of EA or Activision Blizzard going on camera and apologizing like that. Just a matter of follow-through, now.

As far as the next big two patches go, they had said previously one for January and one for February. We'll see just how big they are and what they fix.

I cant imagine EA or Blizzard taking the time to properly fix the game eaither. so if CDPR does it, well.. still better then EA

I hope they pull a no mans sky and make it better then envisioned.

However i also want that they address the issues in regards to worker rights, crunch and planning.

Not Online!!! wrote:
I hope they pull a no mans sky and make it better then envisioned.

However i also want that they address the issues in regards to worker rights, crunch and planning.

They say its a priority but then they said no Crunch before....

PC people have uncovered lots of half done content which might be some of the DLC including Militech building interiors - maybe there is more with Meredith and Corp vs Corp stuff - my kind of Cyberpunk

Meredith did feel like an aborted arc. You have the opportunity to assist her and show her that you're a competent and reliable operative. And any good corporate executive should be looking to build a network of reliable freelancers to handle the odd jobs that should stay out of corporate oversight, which would mean more work for you. But nothing comes of it (except for a sex scene, if you're so inclined).

Eumerin wrote:
Meredith did feel like an aborted arc. You have the opportunity to assist her and show her that you're a competent and reliable operative. And any good corporate executive should be looking to build a network of reliable freelancers to handle the odd jobs that should stay out of corporate oversight, which would mean more work for you. But nothing comes of it (except for a sex scene, if you're so inclined).

When I played a Corp I certainly worked that way.

Also she would be happy to have a senior Arasaka exec or two taken down - and you at this point in the game have old bosses who you might wish taken down But I believe you can never go after either of them and make them pay. And lets face it if you have to go toe to toe with Arasaka - get some bonefide Militech assistance!

But as in the game you just become a streetkid after the prolouge whatever your lifepath I think they did not bother with the Corporate element.

Aside from conversation responses, I had a single mission relating to my V's corporate past.



Very disappointing.

To a certain extent, it feels like they just decided to axe everything corporate. They already had a corporate prologue and the bit with Meredith done, so they kept that in because it was "finished" content (and to avoid rewriting the most involved part of Chapter One). But they didn't bother developing anything else.