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A big motivator for lorgar was a search for 'The truth'.
It wasn't just that the Emperor said 'don't worship me' but that he basically demanded all the rights and authority of a god but just 'didn't like the word'.
And so are we to believe that if lorgar has been raised on earth by the emperor as planned he would have accepted the imperial truth and been the head of the remembrancers. Or was he designed for something else
it is true that each primarch was designed with a specific role in mind
that chaos never stole away all 20 baby primarchs
In this scenario why would the emperor want a zealot in his atheist science driven empire? What’s would his role have been, book keeper??
I might be breaking the rules of the discussion here, but my head canon is that it's not quite true that the emperor designed the primarchs for specific jobs. Rather, I feel like each primarch is meant to reflect a fragment of the emperor as a whole. Magnus is his hubris/curiosity. Russ is his "do what you gotta do" face. Etc. So rather than building, say, Russ to be his executioner, I think he started by building a primarch out of his more cut throat and primal strands of DNA, saw roughly what that would look like, then did some touch-ups/made some plans that would facilitate Russ serving as an executioner.
See, I think the Emperor is an extra special lonely boy. He spent a long time being painfully alone as the only (non-shoggothy) entity on his own level. Those rare individuals that were spectacular enough to connect with him on some level (Malcador) could never quite get him, and then they would die, leaving him alone again for however long it took humanity to spit out another fleeting friend.
That's why the Emperor "cares" about humanity. It's not that he's just a really nice guy (he's not; look at what he does to people). It's probably not even that he needs the combined might of humanity to defeat chaos or tyranids or whatever (he could probably just ditch this galaxy for another one or something.) No, he's concerned with humanity because he believes that a species that has spread across an entire galaxy, if given the guidance and technology to thrive, might eventually manage to evolve and spit out another creature on his level. Not some gibbering chaos god that only thinks about its own hunger. Not some alien entity that is ultimately inhuman and dissimilar from the "human" emperor. He wants someone else like him so that he doesn't have to go on being Dr. Manhatten all by himself.
So what does that have to do with Lorgar? I like to think that Lorgar was the part of the Emperor that believed in something greater. To the Emperor, that something greater is the ascension of humanity and the hope that his eternal loneliness might end. But then Lorgar came to the most horrifying conclusion possible. The part of the Emperor that believes in something greater decided that the Emperor was a god. Etheral. Unreachable. Forever above all lesser entities. The Emperor held up a mirror, and the reflection told him he would always be alone. That's partly why the Emperor has such a hate on for religion. Everywhere he goes, people liken him to a god, tell him that he's impossibly beyond them. By exalting science and the ascension of humanity, he's refusing that premise and insisting that someday he won't be all alone.
And now he sits, unspeaking, secluded. Psychically watching humanity imploded and fall ever further from ascension. And all the while, prayers ring out in the warp, calling him a god. Promising him that he'll always be alone.
So yeah. If Lorgar hadn't gotten kicked across the galaxy by chaos, maybe the Emperor would've tried to make him see the potential in humanity. Sort of like Magnus, but without the focus on psykers.
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
Primarchs being fragments of Emperor has some merit in lore, but does not hold up logically when you think about it. No person can have 'all the personalities'. That is called: insanity. I think that Primarchs better reflect jobs they were meant to do and it plays into creation myths. Lorgar in my eyes were supposed to be head of Imperial creed. He was there to ensure that spirit and ideals of Imperium is being followed. Emperor despite his all nonsense about God, had pushed his own Imperial Creed like any other religion. Burn your crosses and have faith in science!
Emperor's views in nutshell:
He was just replacing theism with new faith in atheism and creating new Gods. Himself and new Chaos pantheon of unbelief. In a very similar way how Tau believes in greater good. It has all the marking of religion, but you shift words around, replace some and you have with these new faiths. Whatever it is blue berries or a golden berry, it is all the same.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/01/23 09:04:36
"If the path to salvation leads through the halls of purgatory, then so be it."
Death Guard = 728 (PL 41) and Space Marines = 831 (PL 50)
Slaanesh demons = 460
Khorne demons = 420
Nighthaunts = 840 points Stormcast Eternals = 880 points.
Maybe it’s a bit of both. I think probably the story has been written over such a long time it’s really neither. I could ask the same thing about mortarian, he’s just a nasty piece of work really. Mostly all the primarchs have embodied the emperors ability to commit genocide in different ways.
As the emperor is the combined spirits of ancient earths most powerful Pyskers, maybe the 20 primarchs, by accident, resulted in the embodying the personalities of 20 of the psykers that gave their lives to create the emperor. Which is is why is was an unknown/uncontrolled element for the emperor
This is why I dislike early lore. It is best left to myths and how, when Emperor came shouldn't be answered, because then we have to deal with silly concepts. Was the Emperor born? So, he was a baby Emperor? If not, how it came into being? What entity is he? A Chaos Demon? An unusually strong psyker? When why more such psykers doesn't appear? Can sacrifices of psykers create Emperor? Why then Chaos doesn't start doing that? Etc, etc.
Though, Emperor being an alpha level stable psyker is most likely conclusion. This though would greatly undermine him, because there were more such psykers. One tried to conquer Imperium by himself and had Emperor like capabilities. He was killed by Imperial servants. So by extension, the only thing that was saving Emperor from murder was his bodyguards.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/23 11:21:48
"If the path to salvation leads through the halls of purgatory, then so be it."
Death Guard = 728 (PL 41) and Space Marines = 831 (PL 50)
Slaanesh demons = 460
Khorne demons = 420
Nighthaunts = 840 points Stormcast Eternals = 880 points.
Lorgar was meant to spread the Imperial Truth, an ostensibly atheistic belief system with a godlike supreme leader at its head who held supreme authority, and which asked all citizens to sacrifice their rights and freedoms for the advancement and betterment of the rest of the society. Even if that required forced labor, genocide etc.
Which of course makes the Emperor basically Stalin.
it is true that each primarch was designed with a specific role in mind
that chaos never stole away all 20 baby primarchs
In this scenario why would the emperor want a zealot in his atheist science driven empire? What’s would his role have been, book keeper??
I might be breaking the rules of the discussion here, but my head canon is that it's not quite true that the emperor designed the primarchs for specific jobs. Rather, I feel like each primarch is meant to reflect a fragment of the emperor as a whole. Magnus is his hubris/curiosity. Russ is his "do what you gotta do" face. Etc. So rather than building, say, Russ to be his executioner, I think he started by building a primarch out of his more cut throat and primal strands of DNA, saw roughly what that would look like, then did some touch-ups/made some plans that would facilitate Russ serving as an executioner.
See, I think the Emperor is an extra special lonely boy. He spent a long time being painfully alone as the only (non-shoggothy) entity on his own level. Those rare individuals that were spectacular enough to connect with him on some level (Malcador) could never quite get him, and then they would die, leaving him alone again for however long it took humanity to spit out another fleeting friend.
That's why the Emperor "cares" about humanity. It's not that he's just a really nice guy (he's not; look at what he does to people). It's probably not even that he needs the combined might of humanity to defeat chaos or tyranids or whatever (he could probably just ditch this galaxy for another one or something.) No, he's concerned with humanity because he believes that a species that has spread across an entire galaxy, if given the guidance and technology to thrive, might eventually manage to evolve and spit out another creature on his level. Not some gibbering chaos god that only thinks about its own hunger. Not some alien entity that is ultimately inhuman and dissimilar from the "human" emperor. He wants someone else like him so that he doesn't have to go on being Dr. Manhatten all by himself.
So what does that have to do with Lorgar? I like to think that Lorgar was the part of the Emperor that believed in something greater. To the Emperor, that something greater is the ascension of humanity and the hope that his eternal loneliness might end. But then Lorgar came to the most horrifying conclusion possible. The part of the Emperor that believes in something greater decided that the Emperor was a god. Etheral. Unreachable. Forever above all lesser entities. The Emperor held up a mirror, and the reflection told him he would always be alone. That's partly why the Emperor has such a hate on for religion. Everywhere he goes, people liken him to a god, tell him that he's impossibly beyond them. By exalting science and the ascension of humanity, he's refusing that premise and insisting that someday he won't be all alone.
And now he sits, unspeaking, secluded. Psychically watching humanity imploded and fall ever further from ascension. And all the while, prayers ring out in the warp, calling him a god. Promising him that he'll always be alone.
So yeah. If Lorgar hadn't gotten kicked across the galaxy by chaos, maybe the Emperor would've tried to make him see the potential in humanity. Sort of like Magnus, but without the focus on psykers.
Exalted. Never though I’d feel bad for the corpse emperor.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
Lorgar was unfortunately smart enough to figure out that the emperor was lying about the state of the universe, and started poking around corners for actual answers.
Unfortunately, the answers in the 40k universe aren't nice ones, , and after trying and failing to get the Emperor as a bulwark against a hostile universe, decided the hostiles were the next best bet.
Atheism even nowadays are pushed with religious fervour. Somebody had to convince galaxy spanning empire that Emperor's vision is right one and it takes very same qualities which is found in Lorgar. Obsessive, fanatical, zealous belief in one's goal with superb charisma and oratory abilities. Lorgar in fact was everything this and he was doing that, but Emperor had changed his mind. He was growing impatient that his goals was taking so long and it was part of why he censured Lorgar. He took too long in conquering worlds. His main method of attacking was through words and preaching. He would convince enemy population of all the benefits of being in the Imperium. He would convince people of how great it would be if they would work together. Rarely Word Bearers had needed to turn to violence and this lack of combat made legion singlest largest legion during crusade with exception of ultrasmurfs who consumed into their ranks legions of lost primarchs. Lorgar then naturally spent time in rebuilding civilization, making it fanatically loyal to Imperium. He was rare kind of conqueror who actually left invaded worlds in a lot better place than he found them. This work later would come to serve him as his legion already had enlightened individuals like Khor Pharon and Erebus who had prepared conquered world to be turned when time was right. Lorgar work was actually why Horus Heresy was a possibility. He was a cancer behind the heresy as Imperial agents would say.
In addition, somebody said maybe here or elsewhere that Lorgar wasn't much of a psyker. That couldn't be anything further from the truth. Lorgar was amongst strongest psykers in a galaxy, probably right below Emperor and Magnus the Red.
"If the path to salvation leads through the halls of purgatory, then so be it."
Death Guard = 728 (PL 41) and Space Marines = 831 (PL 50)
Slaanesh demons = 460
Khorne demons = 420
Nighthaunts = 840 points Stormcast Eternals = 880 points.
5500
2500 
Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children 
4,000