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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Q4 next year?

Yes.I hope it happens, but its only a joke.

zamerion wrote:
So Q4, new box with a new "edition" in ash wastes, with nomads vs scavvy or redemptionists.

My bet

Well, the “House of” series has, so far, mentioned Ash Wastes fairly heavily, clarifying that the three Houses covered so far have varying levels of presence. So I could see that happening.

Add in vehicle rules for stuff up to say, Achilles Ridge Runner size? That also leans into the Orlock and Van Saar prospects. Because whilst domes aren’t quite as claustrophobic as some might think, those models would have a better time out in the wastes.

But, I can see it being predominantly a specific, alternative campaign setting, rather than one readily mixed with Sector Mech and Zone Mortalis games?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well, the “House of” series has, so far, mentioned Ash Wastes fairly heavily, clarifying that the three Houses covered so far have varying levels of presence. So I could see that happening.

Add in vehicle rules for stuff up to say, Achilles Ridge Runner size? That also leans into the Orlock and Van Saar prospects. Because whilst domes aren’t quite as claustrophobic as some might think, those models would have a better time out in the wastes.

But, I can see it being predominantly a specific, alternative campaign setting, rather than one readily mixed with Sector Mech and Zone Mortalis games?

Interesting and here's a random train of thought to think about. There' a rumour bouncing round on B&C saying that there maybe DKoK plastics on the way. Someone helpfully popped up and said it's more likely that they'll do Armageddon Steel Legion. So, if those rumours are true (unlikely), GW could be planning a series of desert terrain. And, let's be honest, modern GW don't produce something unless they can sell you a ton of extras. So, no desert expanse unless they have terrain to go with. If they do have a desert theme or a "Return to Armageddon" launch, what a perfect time to launch Ash Waste Nomads...

That’s certainly food for thought. If the rumour is to be believed. With genuine respect to the various accurate rumour mongers, they’re sadly outnumbered by BS Merchants.

On Ratskins - they're not mentioned at all in the House of Iron. Do they appear in any of the House books? What's the last time they were actually mentioned?

Given the Wyld Runners seem to fulfil the low-tech hunting monsters niche, it feels like they're being airbrushed out of the picture.

 Graphite wrote:
On Ratskins - they're not mentioned at all in the House of Iron. Do they appear in any of the House books? What's the last time they were actually mentioned?

Given the Wyld Runners seem to fulfil the low-tech hunting monsters niche, it feels like they're being airbrushed out of the picture.

We'll see them return but as something unrecognisable. Something like hive bottom wild men or some such

Basically all the fluff in the Orlock book takes place outside the hive spire. The only thing I remember staying inside is them mining old structures inside, causing tremors and hive quakes.

I wouldn't be surprised if they make an ash waste/the spoil setting next (maybe with rules for bikes and transport a la Gorkamorka), but on the other hand, the image shows the top of the spire, so they might as well go in the opposite direction.

Not sure we can put much stock in the holding image they used.

It’s existing artwork after all. I may well be wrong, and it wouldn’t be the first nor the last time!


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 zedmeister wrote:

 Graphite wrote:
On Ratskins - they're not mentioned at all in the House of Iron. Do they appear in any of the House books? What's the last time they were actually mentioned?

Given the Wyld Runners seem to fulfil the low-tech hunting monsters niche, it feels like they're being airbrushed out of the picture.

We'll see them return but as something unrecognisable. Something like hive bottom wild men or some such

Ratskins can still be Ratskins. And Redemption can still be Redemption. It’s the sculpts that were arguably problematic*, not their background.

*Redemptionists, in their standard red colouring aren’t problematic. But a Sad Little Edgelord painting them white and adding dubious iconography (twisting them into something they canonically are not) is an issue. Because their inspiration was the Spanish Inquisition, not, well, you know.

Danny76 wrote:
Do their quarters run Jan to Dec, or is it more like seasons?

That would be one heck of a long quarter.

In terms of new gangs in Necro17, what's the full list look like? Off the top of my head, I remember seeing:
- Chaos Cult (in WD)
- Genestealer Cult (in WD)
- Palatine Enforcers
- Slave Ogryns (latest Goliath book?)
- Corpse Grinders (cult #3? Not sure where printed)

There's an argument that Chaos/GSC/Enforcers have appeared before, but I can't recall where the former two would've been printed.

Any others that I've missed from released material thus far?

Ratskins would be better suited leaning far more into the archeotech worship than the natives look, lots of strange tech hanging from their clothing like talismans, the rat pelts can be kept but applied in a way similar to the reptile skins worn by the Scions of the Flame. Give them weapons that look similar to AdMech guns and you're good to go.

As for Redemptionists, I'd expect them to be outright folded in Cawdor as the new Champions and Prospects, with options for eviscerators and such locked to them.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Ratskins can still be Ratskins. And Redemption can still be Redemption. It’s the sculpts that were arguably problematic*, not their background.

The same but with different sculpts isn't the same. And they weren't problematic. Problematic wan't even a concept back then, what with us being adults (even though we were kids). Lastly, if you're giving the concept of "problematic" even the slightest shred of credibility, then you have to condemn Ratskins as appropriation and or blackface. You can't make any attempt at nuance, that's not how this all works.

JWBS wrote:
The same but with different sculpts isn't the same. And they weren't problematic. Problematic wan't even a concept back then, what with us being adults (even though we were kids). Lastly, if you're giving the concept of "problematic" even the slightest shred of credibility, then you have to condemn Ratskins as appropriation and or blackface. You can't make any attempt at nuance, that's not how this all works.

I don't think GW are doing a bad job of using cultural inspirations for units these days, Warcry warbands and AoS factions in general all have fairly clear identities that come from real world cultures, even with modifications to help them fit a fantastical theme.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Overread wrote:
True, but that's a bit like AoS. Necromunda started as 1 concept; changed and then changed again. Partly, from what I can tell, in response to really high sales volume. Basically GW went from "specialist side game" to "main game" attitude quite quickly; but it has resulted in a bit of a mess.

I think they are on a home run now though with a more long term plan setup for it simply because of the nature of the releases we are now getting. I'd at least expect to no see another "army book" for any faction until a new edition of the core rules. Though of course GW might well throw a lot of expansion rule packs in

Do you ever stop making excuses for them? And I'm not just talking about this thread either.

Necromunda is a mess, and has performed like a game stuck in Early Access on Steam since it first came out. Lurching from one new patch to another, with them treading the same ground over and over again without ever moving forward that much (we got Corpse Grinders and Ogryn Slave gangs, and everything else 3-4 times over). We're still missing a bucketload of miniatures for the special characters, and we've yet to hear a whiff of info on anything beyond the 6 core gangs.

If this because, as you say, a change of ideas due to large sales, then they still haven't managed to get it together.

Sure I'm critical of GW's problems as well, it just doesn't dominate my posting. Plus I tend to look for reasoning as to why things are as they are. Necromunda changing from 1 book of rules through to a codex-style system per gang strongly suggests higher than estimated sales promoted that change. Why else (besides key staff favouring the game) would GW choose to invest larger amounts of money in a larger development program. It doesn't mean that GW's rules writers have suddenly transformed from what they've been for 30years; it doesn't mean they've got it perfect and it has indeed made a mess of the launch through to current format period - even ignoring the mess that Corona has made of the last year. Heck I was crying out about missing phyrr cats for ages - and whilst I do like the new designed sculpts they are very clearly not resin (or if they are don't take advantage of resin fine detail) and are a very different design to their original artwork and concept design.

Again I am critical, it just doesn't dominate my posting. I'd rather look for a logical reasoning and then look toward a more positive outcome/reason/target than doom and gloom.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Overread wrote:
True, but that's a bit like AoS. Necromunda started as 1 concept; changed and then changed again. Partly, from what I can tell, in response to really high sales volume. Basically GW went from "specialist side game" to "main game" attitude quite quickly; but it has resulted in a bit of a mess.

I think they are on a home run now though with a more long term plan setup for it simply because of the nature of the releases we are now getting. I'd at least expect to no see another "army book" for any faction until a new edition of the core rules. Though of course GW might well throw a lot of expansion rule packs in

Do you ever stop making excuses for them? And I'm not just talking about this thread either.

Necromunda is a mess, and has performed like a game stuck in Early Access on Steam since it first came out. Lurching from one new patch to another, with them treading the same ground over and over again without ever moving forward that much (we got Corpse Grinders and Ogryn Slave gangs, and everything else 3-4 times over). We're still missing a bucketload of miniatures for the special characters, and we've yet to hear a whiff of info on anything beyond the 6 core gangs.

If this because, as you say, a change of ideas due to large sales, then they still haven't managed to get it together.

I'd rather hear someone's postmortem (midmortem?) on the development of the game than get absolute psycho hours from you.

Like, the ongoing fixation on special characters models is hilarious. You're stuck on it because it's an irrefutable gap in the game. You can bring it up and nobody can tell you you're incorrect. But no one *cares*. If I asked you what you wanted from the game two years ago would you have said, "Well, I'd really like a ton of special characters, and for them all to have models!"

Can you tell us how many of the Forgeworld Necromunda models you currently own, please? Will you be buying all future releases? When did you last play a game of Necromunda; and when was the last game you played in which you fielded a special character?

It's equally ludicrous to pretend that new gangs was something the community was desperate for (or that you ever cared about, until contingency made that issue another concrete example of something started and left unfinished, via teasers that haven't resolved into products yet).

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Overread wrote:
True, but that's a bit like AoS. Necromunda started as 1 concept; changed and then changed again. Partly, from what I can tell, in response to really high sales volume. Basically GW went from "specialist side game" to "main game" attitude quite quickly; but it has resulted in a bit of a mess.

I think they are on a home run now though with a more long term plan setup for it simply because of the nature of the releases we are now getting. I'd at least expect to no see another "army book" for any faction until a new edition of the core rules. Though of course GW might well throw a lot of expansion rule packs in

We're still missing a bucketload of miniatures for the special characters, and we've yet to hear a whiff of info on anything beyond the 6 core gangs.

Genestealer Cults, Chaos Cults, Corpse Grinders, Enforcers and Ogryn Gangs? Thats 5 new gangs beyond the 6 core gangs. Thats more than a whiff.

If GW keeps going as they appear to plan for next year we could potentially start seeing new gangs once every quarter.

 jake wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Overread wrote:
True, but that's a bit like AoS. Necromunda started as 1 concept; changed and then changed again. Partly, from what I can tell, in response to really high sales volume. Basically GW went from "specialist side game" to "main game" attitude quite quickly; but it has resulted in a bit of a mess.

I think they are on a home run now though with a more long term plan setup for it simply because of the nature of the releases we are now getting. I'd at least expect to no see another "army book" for any faction until a new edition of the core rules. Though of course GW might well throw a lot of expansion rule packs in

We're still missing a bucketload of miniatures for the special characters, and we've yet to hear a whiff of info on anything beyond the 6 core gangs.

Genestealer Cults, Chaos Cults, Corpse Grinders, Enforcers and Ogryn Gangs? Thats 5 new gangs beyond the 6 core gangs. Thats more than a whiff.

Those don't count, because they're not the ones he was thinking of.

 Overread wrote:
If GW keeps going as they appear to plan for next year we could potentially start seeing new gangs once every quarter.

Is it just me or is there an unusually high level of wishlisting in this thread masquerading as considered speculation? A new gang every quarter you say, that's alongside Zedmeister's fully fleshed out Ash waste expansion with accompanying series of desert terrain and Grotsnick's MadMax Roadwarrior / Thunderdome spinoff game?

I'll bet my left nut we get nothing of the sort!

JWBS wrote:

 Overread wrote:
If GW keeps going as they appear to plan for next year we could potentially start seeing new gangs once every quarter.

Is it just me or is there an unusually high level of wishlisting in this thread masquerading as considered speculation? A new gang every quarter you say, that's alongside Zedmeister's fully fleshed out Ash waste expansion with accompanying series of desert terrain and Grotsnick's MadMax Roadwarrior / Thunderdome spinoff game?

I'll bet my left nut we get nothing of the sort!

You forgot the expansion into 40K as well.

But so far GW is aiming to do 1 new gang book every quarter. Considering that a "Gang" works with 1 miniature pack release GW could easily do 1 book and 2 packs (gangs and juve/specialist set) every 3 months. Granted its unlikely we'd see that since they've also got things that are not gangs and expansions to existing gangs. That would be an "at best" situation. However we could see two gangs or so a year.

 Dysartes wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
Do their quarters run Jan to Dec, or is it more like seasons?

That would be one heck of a long quarter.

In terms of new gangs in Necro17, what's the full list look like? Off the top of my head, I remember seeing:
- Chaos Cult (in WD)
- Genestealer Cult (in WD)
- Palatine Enforcers
- Slave Ogryns (latest Goliath book?)
- Corpse Grinders (cult #3? Not sure where printed)

There's an argument that Chaos/GSC/Enforcers have appeared before, but I can't recall where the former two would've been printed.

Any others that I've missed from released material thus far?

Helot Chaos Cult and Genestealer Cult saw the latest iteration of their rules, along with the Corpse Grinders, in the Book of Ruin. Corpse Ginders, along with Palanite Enforcers, were also included in the Dark Uprising Rulebook (with Enforcers also appearing in the Book of Judgment). Slave Ogryns were indeed in the Goliath book (House of Chains).

All of these gangs are ruleswise basically on par with the House gangs as they appear in Gangs of the Underhive, with Enforcers and Corpse Grinders also having their own dedicated skill trees like the newer House gangs, and Enforcers even already having two dedicated plastic kits. Rules for the Slave Ogryn gang were, it appears, an afterthought decided to include in House of Chains after the rules team saw the Ogryn brute kit and loved it so much they wanted to add more rules.

Both GSC and Helot Chaos cults are obviously included to allow you to play with kits normally intended for 40k (and, in the case of Chaos, Blackstone Fortress). I'm not sure they'll ever see dedicated Necromunda kits and therefore much-expanded rules.

Could we maybe move away from the political bickering before the mods arrive with some oversized hammers? As none if this is really new news...

I think the last actual Ratskin reference was Scabs (Kal Jericho's sidekick) being half-Ratskin.

beast_gts wrote:
I think the last actual Ratskin reference was Scabs (Kal Jericho's sidekick) being half-Ratskin.

There are references to other ratskins in some of the recent necromunda short stories, including the character Iktomi in the stories The Hand of Harrow and Low Lives

If we really want to get into wild speculation - there's been a fair amount of mention of "Iron Lords" and at least one glitched Man Of Iron kicking about. Machine uprising time?

I think it's pretty clear from the article that whatever reimagining they'll do to old gangs (and they will, see all the gangs so far), they're down on the list.

The water guild and the other new concepts clearly have a higher priority in the queue, which is why they're being teased, and not outlander gangs.

IDK, he has a point- regardless of personal opinions we live in a polarized era, and there is no going back.

It's pretty clear the Spanish Inquisition inspired sculpts are making people feel genuinely uncomfortable. I know this because I'm one of them.

It's not enough to rationalize it away by the origin of its design, we have to understand that for a large chunk of people they don't associate it with the Spanish, they associate it with a society dedicated entirely to hating others.

And yeah, while I get 40k is a dark future that show cases the darkest path of mankind is it really necessary to use iconography and designs that even today still represent our darkest real world aspects?

I don't think it has to be so.

I wouldn't want to say whether or not the Redemptionist garments are supposed to represent Nazarene robes. I am older than him though, and I live closer to Spain than he does, so I suppose he'd say I'm probably far more qualified to speak on it than he is, being two degrees less separated. Ok, I'll go with you on this - the Redemptionists, religious zealots that they are, might be modelled after the Spanish Inquisition and not the KKK. I mean, it's possible, right?

It wouldn't matter if they were; they no longer hold that symbolism for enough onlookers to be relevant.

Art is subjective because even if you have the artist there explaining their intention the onlooker will still make their own judgement based on how they feel about the piece.

Yeah it's pretty subjective. Personally I don't find the Klan to be massively relevant to modern life but I am rather fond of European and classical history. Good thing we don't all need to feel exactly the same way about Nineties era GW sculpts.


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 BaronIveagh wrote:

JWBS wrote:

Let's just throw it all in the bin if it can be subverted by some bad actors. Let's ban Gone With The Wind too. I also think that statue of Churchill is quite upsetting, I heard he could sometimes be unpleasant.

Seems good.

Completely forgetting that GW is a for-profit business that doesn't cater to you, since you're not their target audience, but mostly to parents and kids with disposable income and not a lot of sense.

As they ever have.

Carlovonsexron wrote:
It wouldn't matter if they were; they no longer hold that symbolism for enough onlookers to be relevant.

Art is subjective because even if you have the artist there explaining their intention the onlooker will still make their own judgement based on how they feel about the piece.

It's especially difficult to make this argument of them being tied to the Spanish flagellants when you have a noose around the model's neck and bill the model as a member of an extremist religious group that takes justice into their own hands.

Redemptionists might have been modelled after the Spanish inquisition and it skated relatively under the radar or just as a "who cares?" thing back in the days when we had suicide collar Penal Legions, but it just doesn't really hold up when we have groups that legitimately have been trying to co-opt 40k's imagery and language for their own purposes. Why make it easier for them with crap like that?