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If the tone continues, I would expect the generic Juves to come out along with other figures from the books that haven't shown up yet.
Water cast, etc, on lines with the Slavers and Special characters, ( which there are still quite a few not out yet.)

Expect them to come 6 in a box for full price, as well...

If GW is anything, they are predictable.

Only goliath got the Prospect and Juve exactly the same. Other gang's Prospect are NOT CHEAP and you don't want to send them to their death.

Of course unless you're Specialist game studio playtesters using them as suicide fodders "for the meme"

The biggest issue with Necromunda now is that it is losing it's soul of what it should be and is turning into ..... something else.

For one, the lack of focus on just a beer and pretzels game, and then slipping in this excited, aggressive vision of gak that doesn't really lend itself to a gang fighting a gang, scrapping together some credits from a local area, and then advancing.

You can tell how it is growing out of control as you read the books, and watch the evolution. I mean, yeah, I get it that they have to sell stuff, but to destroy what worked from the very beginning in the process just seems counter productive.

I mean, damn, We're into the game how far, and they don't even have Juve figures yet, an the ones they do have are loaded in gimmick. second are those books. They have these books per gang, and they don't even finish the selection of figures in the book before they forget all about the characters/ faction gangs.

I just think that there are a bunch of nubs in the game studio sitting around trying to one up each other on bells and whistles for a game that quite honestly didn't need any of that, and just needed a basic skeleton, some meat on the bones in terms of additional content, and some skin on the corpse in terms of workable fluff.

45.00 for 6 figures, 60+ for a box of 10, which are two of the same sprue, not to mention not being up on demand for crap like those @#$%ing cards, the dice, the scenery...

Get it together, GW.

 Grot 6 wrote:
I mean, damn, We're into the game how far, and they don't even have Juve figures yet...

We're into the game how far, and we're getting the third version of each gang. There's no forward momentum. It's just retreading the same ground over and over. The expansion of fluff is certainly nice, but outside of the Dark Uprising box, Necromunda isn't expanding.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:
I mean, damn, We're into the game how far, and they don't even have Juve figures yet...

We're into the game how far, and we're getting the third version of each gang. There's no forward momentum. It's just retreading the same ground over and over. The expansion of fluff is certainly nice, but outside of the Dark Uprising box, Necromunda isn't expanding.

Which is the saddest part of it all

in some ways its a good thing though. Those 3 editions evolved the game, albeit in a very short window which is painful for those who got in first.

My view is that the sales were good enough that the whole nature of the game shifted dramatically from something that might have been a very slow project on FW with lots of stuff that might never make it as a model; into something far more "mainstream" for GW in terms of how they manage and release it.

Granted this means that it has "stalled" a bit in that we've had more repeat rules releases, but look we are getting unique new models per faction with each of these new books; we have rules and slots for the guilds and we are getting closer to a point where we shift out of established faction books and into new factions getting new books.



It's a little like how AoS went from launch to 2.0 just with a more positive spin on the whole experience rather than the nightmare that AoS had prior to 2.0. Necromunda is in its "AoS 2.0" phase establishing itself as it will likely be for a long while to come in terms of structure.

@Grot6:

Necromunda was never a beer and pretzels game. It was designed to be played in a campaign and every move was important as you wanted to collect as many XP as possible for your gangers.

 Strg Alt wrote:
@Grot6:

Necromunda was never a beer and pretzels game. It was designed to be played in a campaign and every move was important as you wanted to collect as many XP as possible for your gangers.

Yep! It's partly why I never was interested in it until now, as there were a bit too many 'moving parts' for me when I was younger.

I think its also a game that works best with either a casual air to the continuity aspects or a player/person acting like a DM to prevent players that lose one too many times ending up too much the underdog and those that win one too many times ending up far too powerful to touch.

Much like DnD campaign of games within a group often requires some management to ensure everyone has a fair and fun game.

And it’s still something with options, not requirements.

If you want to play Necromunda, rules wise you only need two books (should be one, but is what it is, for better or worse). The rest are expansions.

I no more need the House Of books, nor Book of, erm, books than I need every single book for a given World of Darkness game in order to run a campaign.

They’re just options. Use all, use some, use none, invent your own. Do what you want. Me, I’ve been buying each of the books because Completist Weirdo. But when it comes time to run a campaign, you can bet your bippy I’ll be doing it my way.

Might be cherry picking elements. Might be 90% home brew in terms of scenarios. What’s important is that someone wanting to join in just needs copies or access to the main rules and Gangs of the Underhive (I’m not too keen on tinkering with the bedrock of the rules, due to wanting a campaign to be accessible)

 Overread wrote:

Granted this means that it has "stalled" a bit in that we've had more repeat rules releases, but look we are getting unique new models per faction with each of these new books.

Stalled a bit doesn't even come close. It took more than a year to get the original 6 out the door, but not before the first 2 got refreshed...

It would've made waaaayyyyyy more sense to get the originals out before going back and retreading. But they really wanted to have the poster gangs taken care of, rather than getting everyone on the same footing and going forward from there.

I can understand that GW was cautious with the rollout, but for players like me who have zero interest in any of the other gangs it made me not want to play until I had models.

Now I'm not even sure that when Delaque finally get a House book(whenever that'll be) that I will want to play anymore. I will still buy the models but unfortunately, I think the game is dead to me. I'm the only one @ my flgs that had any interest in it when announced and actively trying to get people to play it, which has ceased.

It's a shame cuz I really liked original Necromunda and WAS(past tense) excited for the new one.

Well lets not forget 2020 was a very dud year for a lot of things; chances are we'd be two or three books further along had 2020 not happened the way it had.

Yes and no. The original roadmap, if memory serves, was the current books out q1, q2, q3 and q4 2020.

All we’ve really seen is Cawdor and Delaque pushed back a quarter.

 Strg Alt wrote:
@Grot6:

Necromunda was never a beer and pretzels game. It was designed to be played in a campaign and every move was important as you wanted to collect as many XP as possible for your gangers.

Yes and no. Yes, it was designed as a campaign game... but given that the rules were not particularly water-tight, if you took it too seriously, you inevitably wound up with that one guy with the 10,000 gang rating just stomping everyone else into the ground. Or Spyrers everywhere.

Necromunda was at its best when it was played as a bit of light-hearted hack and slash, with the campaign rules just keeping things from getting stale by allowing your gang to evolve from game to game.

 insaniak wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
@Grot6:

Necromunda was never a beer and pretzels game. It was designed to be played in a campaign and every move was important as you wanted to collect as many XP as possible for your gangers.

Yes and no. Yes, it was designed as a campaign game... but given that the rules were not particularly water-tight, if you took it too seriously, you inevitably wound up with that one guy with the 10,000 gang rating just stomping everyone else into the ground. Or Spyrers everywhere.

Necromunda was at its best when it was played as a bit of light-hearted hack and slash, with the campaign rules just keeping things from getting stale by allowing your gang to evolve from game to game.

This.

In any campaign, there’d be folks taking it very seriously, and others purely for lols.

Things getting lopsided in terms of power curve was real, and could quickly ruin a campaign, especially when a lot was down to luck. Not just in game luck either. If you rolled up crap territory in the beginning, you were at a serious disadvantage. If you did well in your first few games, that was mitigated. But if not, you were left with low income and no way to replace losses, let alone improve your equipment load outs.

I do prefer a chunk of the older rules (territories, income and injuries), but still haven’t played a huge amount of the current game, so continue to experiment.

Low rep "underdog" gangs always has the benefit of the guilders "free dude", and higher chance of being able to pick scenario. Unless it was picked by DM, then they probably should do their job and keep the game fair between the players.

Playing by the rule, random crew slow down the snowballing, and campaign should end before someone manage to upgrade all of his dude into Supermen.

Plus the extra XP for being underdog could also boost your gang quite a bit.

Old Skoool Necro campaigns were epic.

 Grot 6 wrote:
We're into the game how far, and they don't even have Juve figures yet, an the ones they do have are loaded in gimmick.

The books (House of Blades at least) are very explicit about how the basic plastic kit is meant to build juves, just like it covers basic champions.

Now, I'd rather have seen the second plastic kit for each gang create dedicated champions and juves, and grant more weapon options in plastic, but that ship has sailed and sunk by now.

Derek H wrote:

 Graphite wrote:
And Aussie GST is 10%

Sooo..... price should reduce by 20% then increase by 10% for an overall 12% reduction.

Then 5% Aussie import duty taking us to a 7.6% reduction.

So. Yeah. "Taxes" looks like nonsense.
.

VAT is actually 16.7% of the total price of an item (including VAT), not 20%.

An item costing £100 inc VAT is £83.33 plus 20% of £83.33 VAT (£16.67).

You're right. My overall point stands though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Plus the extra XP for being underdog could also boost your gang quite a bit.

Old Skoool Necro campaigns were epic.

If there's one thing GW really needs to do once the House of... books are finished, it's come out with a coherent balancing system between gangs in campaigns. Old Necromunda's way of doing it was that if you come up against a gang with a rating three times yours, you WILL get steamrollered. However everyone in the gang gained a bunch of XP as they learned a lot (Possilbly "don't do this again").

If you actually won, say getting a fluky mission draw like a gunfight where your opponent's entire gang turned up with heavy weapons and no pistols, you also made a shedload of creds.

Now, in Newcromunda creds are reasonably easy to come by, but XP is rare as hell. I'd personally keep the XP boost, but replace the income bonus with massive Rep increases.

And stop using the damn cards as a balancing feature. It doesn't work, you need masses of cardboard, and the idea is to balance the campaign rather than the individual games. Pull off a couple of wins against a high powered gang, and you're going toe-to-toe with them in no time.

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:
We're into the game how far, and they don't even have Juve figures yet, an the ones they do have are loaded in gimmick.

The books (House of Blades at least) are very explicit about how the basic plastic kit is meant to build juves, just like it covers basic champions.

Now, I'd rather have seen the second plastic kit for each gang create dedicated champions and juves, and grant more weapon options in plastic, but that ship has sailed and sunk by now.

Even so, I’d still prefer dedicated Juve models. I very much get the definition of a Juve has changed, but old habits dying hard.

If Juves get promoted, would they once have kept their model?
Now, with most looking quite similar, you can almost keep the original in place.
I magnetise nearly everything (you don't say )so I'm fine with the weapon upgrades later on.

I am stumped as how to promote a Van Saar skyboarder to the champion Carapace armour, without losing the board, though. I must be missing something there.

He keeps the board. However, as a new Champion he could have a new equipment set which doesn't have a board in it, I assume.

For me that's always been one issue of Necromunda - eps the new stuff where you've got a lot of the same bodies that can take any weapon (or near enough). In theory each time you play you'd be buying and building and upgrading gangers and the arms are - well you could magnetize but its darn tiny stuff.

If anything its a limit of trying to bring what would work in a computergame into a board game with models that are not made for easy upgrades. It's a system that would work great if you were running Adepticus Titanicus because most of those models (at least warhounds and bigger) are more practical to magnetize and could be easily designed to allow for magnetic updates to heads/arms/armour panels etc....

 Overread wrote:
For me that's always been one issue of Necromunda - eps the new stuff where you've got a lot of the same bodies that can take any weapon (or near enough). In theory each time you play you'd be buying and building and upgrading gangers and the arms are - well you could magnetize but its darn tiny stuff.

If anything its a limit of trying to bring what would work in a computergame into a board game with models that are not made for easy upgrades. It's a system that would work great if you were running Adepticus Titanicus because most of those models (at least warhounds and bigger) are more practical to magnetize and could be easily designed to allow for magnetic updates to heads/arms/armour panels etc....

Huh. And now you've convinced me AT needs a game show-esque 'battle planet' like Battletech's Solaris.
Someone call the Dark Eldar.

 Skinnereal wrote:
If Juves get promoted, would they once have kept their model?
Now, with most looking quite similar, you can almost keep the original in place.
I magnetise nearly everything (you don't say )so I'm fine with the weapon upgrades later on.

I am stumped as how to promote a Van Saar skyboarder to the champion Carapace armour, without losing the board, though. I must be missing something there.

And there lies the problem, and why you need dedicated figures for basic guys. and yeah, you can build a couple of figures as basic, but your losing gangers in the process, and committing ganger figures to Juve mode. las pistol and knife that will be around game after game as new fighters come in as older ones die off.

No Necro preview this week, but can't say I'm excited to see another round of new fighter using recycled weapons already made in plastic, and the worst : more stubguns.

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Granted this means that it has "stalled" a bit in that we've had more repeat rules releases, but look we are getting unique new models per faction with each of these new books.

Stalled a bit doesn't even come close. It took more than a year to get the original 6 out the door, but not before the first 2 got refreshed...

What "refresh" are you talking about, exactly?

 Overread wrote:
For me that's always been one issue of Necromunda - eps the new stuff where you've got a lot of the same bodies that can take any weapon (or near enough). In theory each time you play you'd be buying and building and upgrading gangers and the arms are - well you could magnetize but its darn tiny stuff.

If anything its a limit of trying to bring what would work in a computergame into a board game with models that are not made for easy upgrades. It's a system that would work great if you were running Adepticus Titanicus because most of those models (at least warhounds and bigger) are more practical to magnetize and could be easily designed to allow for magnetic updates to heads/arms/armour panels etc....

This becomes less of an issue if you reject the burdensome doctrine of strict WYSIWYG. Games Workshop loves that paradigm for it's campaign games, because it means that Gamer X, who has the money and will, may literally buy multiple models to represent the same character as that character upgrades its gear.

With some minor thoughtfulness while building your figs, and good communication as a player, you can completely make up for the only slim pro-player/customer benefit WYSIWYG offers (the avoidance of player confusion in-game).

Strict WYSIWYG and a game that requires a handful (20 at most) of regular sized infantry models shouldn't make sense without magnetizing most of the dudes, if not every single one of them.

Easier to make tons of battle ready models and it saves both time and money instead of buying, assembling and painting multiple boxes just to get all the possible combinations of models.

 Altruizine wrote:
This becomes less of an issue if you reject the burdensome doctrine of strict WYSIWYG. Games Workshop loves that paradigm for it's campaign games, because it means that Gamer X, who has the money and will, may literally buy multiple models to represent the same character as that character upgrades its gear..

Historically, GW has always been far less concerned with WYSIWYG than the players have been... and even there, WYSIWYG has only ever been as strictly enforced as the players choose to make it. It's not an ironclad rule embedded in the structure of the universe, just a convention intended to make games with a lot of different stuff in them easier to keep track of.

That being said, from my experience most people have been somewhat more relaxed on WYSIWYG where Necromunda is concerned, even amongst groups that are strict on it for 40K, because your gear can change so quickly and there are ultimately not that many models to keep track of. For me, I still prefer WYSIWYG, and tend to build my gangs around what the models I have built are equipped with... while also making sure I have extra models available to deal with gear changes and other roster adjustments, but am happy to just wing it when a campaign is in full swing, particularly since so many models can wind up with multiple weapons that can't always be easily shown on the model.

 insaniak wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:
This becomes less of an issue if you reject the burdensome doctrine of strict WYSIWYG. Games Workshop loves that paradigm for it's campaign games, because it means that Gamer X, who has the money and will, may literally buy multiple models to represent the same character as that character upgrades its gear..

Historically, GW has always been far less concerned with WYSIWYG than the players have been... and even there, WYSIWYG has only ever been as strictly enforced as the players choose to make it. It's not an ironclad rule embedded in the structure of the universe, just a convention intended to make games with a lot of different stuff in them easier to keep track of.

Doesn't nearly every one of their rulebooks contain a similarly-worded blurb that says, "Models are equipped with the weapons they're modeled with, but don't worry about grenades and wargear"?