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Justyn wrote:

Except the particular kit chosen doesn't fit the SW.

They fit as well as Scouts do. They fit as well as Grey Hunters do. Read the lore about how the Vanguard work, your arguments have no merit.

Why many think they were chosen because the Infiltrator/Incursor kit didn't sell very well.

People said that about Centurions too, yet how much whining has there been about those?

There was a flood of cheap infiltrators on the market from Shadowspear. Most people are happy purchasing the single builds and using them as either.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat, people are cheap when they can get away with it?

I'm shocked! Really!

I have plenty of Intercessors and Hellblasters. They don't have tacticool crap all over them. Easy to add a bit of SW look to them here and there. The Tacticool guys, not so much. I have a squad. I have never used them.

Then you didn't build your Intercessors or Hellblasters all the way. The "tacticool crap" for Infiltrators and Incursors tends to boil down to "pouches"--which Hellblasters and Intercessors both have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
I agree. At the very least, they could've thrown in the Primaris Space Wolves upgrade sprue as a token gesture so people can wolf-up those Incursors.
In the Imperial Fist box, they included the upgrade sprues. They also did it for Space Wolves before with Tooth & Claw so people could build specifically Space Wolf-themed Aggressors and Intercessors.

It's worth mentioning that the Space Wolves Primaris upgrade frame is from the initial releases of Primaris stuff, where they were just kinda...meh. You got a CCW or two, usually keyed to a specific body from the Intercessors and shoulderpads. There aren't many "detailing" bits present nor the transfer sheets and the sprues were $12.50 for doing 5 Intercessors or Hellblasters and 3 Aggressors.

I'd still kill for my Space Wolves to get access to Centurions

They'd look awesome with pelts. Some of the coolest models in the Marine line and Wolves don't get to play with them

People said that about Centurions too, yet how much whining has there been about those?

What are Centurions precious.

They fit as well as Scouts do. They fit as well as Grey Hunters do. Read the lore about how the Vanguard work, your arguments have no merit.

Then you didn't build your Intercessors or Hellblasters all the way. The "tacticool crap" for Infiltrators and Incursors tends to boil down to "pouches"--which Hellblasters and Intercessors both have.

These are all opinions. You can act like your opinions are worth more than mine, but they aren't.

AAE: Thank you, I looked on Warhammer Community but couldn't find the article on there.
105 for the set, hmmm. I like that it is elite Orks vs. Marines, but I am not interested in having any primaris models so I guess my FOMO is zero right now.

On the contrary, the Vanguard bit isn't opinion. It's laid down in the book that came with Shadowspear(which does mention that the Space Wolves are using Phobos geared skirmishers) and further explained in the Space Marines codex.

In the Codex Chapters(read: not Space Wolves), the 10th Companies have been turned into dedicated Vanguard Companies and the Battle Companies have stocks of Phobos armor for when their mission profiles call for them. And that's in addition to Scouts still existing, not simply replacing them.

Since Space Wolves don't follow that whole pesky "Scouts are newbies" organization profile(remember that their Scouts were the only ones that consistently got mentioned as "full marines" despite the lore existing elsewhere for others), their schtick has always been that Scouts are part of the Great Companies...which is exactly how the Vanguard are incorporated here again.

TLDR: Get over it.

BrianDavion wrote:
I'll be buying the pack, but yeah I admit the infiltrators don;t exactly feel very space wolfish, but I'll put the infiltrators in my storm crows primaris chapter.

Incursors are the closest thing to an assault troop that primaris marines have...in that they have exploding attacks on 6s as an ability.

Wheeeeee, assault units for primaris are so gooooood.

BrianDavion wrote:
I'll be buying the pack, but yeah I admit the infiltrators don;t exactly feel very space wolfish, but I'll put the infiltrators in my storm crows primaris chapter.

Given that Infiltrators are full blown marines performing stealth duties they're better suited to SW's than any other chapter.

JSG wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I'll be buying the pack, but yeah I admit the infiltrators don;t exactly feel very space wolfish, but I'll put the infiltrators in my storm crows primaris chapter.

Given that Infiltrators are full blown marines performing stealth duties they're better suited to SW's than any other chapter.

Well known sneaky boys, the space wolves?

the_scotsman wrote:

JSG wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I'll be buying the pack, but yeah I admit the infiltrators don;t exactly feel very space wolfish, but I'll put the infiltrators in my storm crows primaris chapter.

Given that Infiltrators are full blown marines performing stealth duties they're better suited to SW's than any other chapter.

Well known sneaky boys, the space wolves?

Annoyingly, yes. They were the only ones for some time whose Scouts were fluffed as being "full Marines" rather than just a buncha scrubs given guns and told to act as cannon fodder.

 Kanluwen wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

JSG wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I'll be buying the pack, but yeah I admit the infiltrators don;t exactly feel very space wolfish, but I'll put the infiltrators in my storm crows primaris chapter.

Given that Infiltrators are full blown marines performing stealth duties they're better suited to SW's than any other chapter.

Well known sneaky boys, the space wolves?

Annoyingly, yes. They were the only ones for some time whose Scouts were fluffed as being "full Marines" rather than just a buncha scrubs given guns and told to act as cannon fodder.

Not just full blown marines but vets, the idea is their scouts are the "lone wolves" left from depleted squads or whose techniques means they don't play nicely in the normal packs.

On the contrary, the Vanguard bit isn't opinion. It's laid down in the book that came with Shadowspear(which does mention that the Space Wolves are using Phobos geared skirmishers) and further explained in the Space Marines codex.

In the Codex Chapters(read: not Space Wolves), the 10th Companies have been turned into dedicated Vanguard Companies and the Battle Companies have stocks of Phobos armor for when their mission profiles call for them. And that's in addition to Scouts still existing, not simply replacing them.

Since Space Wolves don't follow that whole pesky "Scouts are newbies" organization profile(remember that their Scouts were the only ones that consistently got mentioned as "full marines" despite the lore existing elsewhere for others), their schtick has always been that Scouts are part of the Great Companies...which is exactly how the Vanguard are incorporated here again.

TLDR: Get over it.

My objection was the look, not the role. Since we are talking about the models, not the codex entry. Which is a matter of opinion, that you clearly understood or you would not have brought up pouches. You like them and think they are fine. I do not. How difficult is that for you to accept? People have different opinions. Get over it.

Also if they want to be like SW scouts they need to be elites with the option to take melee weapons.

Annoyingly, yes. They were the only ones for some time whose Scouts were fluffed as being "full Marines" rather than just a buncha scrubs given guns and told to act as cannon fodder.

They are, as far as I know, still the only ones who are elites.

Lore finally put that bit of nonsense down. It was more or less always the case that the Veteran Sergeants were "full Marines" that served as tutors and yadda yadda yadda but there was a bit about individuals staying in the 10th as it fit their skill set better.

Also if they want to be like SW scouts they need to be elites with the option to take melee weapons.

Considering most of the times when people used SW scouts it was for special weapons, one would think that might be the desired bit.

And they need to get in line, we still need Reivers to be a viable melee option before we start throwing melee on the other options!

 Kanluwen wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

JSG wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I'll be buying the pack, but yeah I admit the infiltrators don;t exactly feel very space wolfish, but I'll put the infiltrators in my storm crows primaris chapter.

Given that Infiltrators are full blown marines performing stealth duties they're better suited to SW's than any other chapter.

Well known sneaky boys, the space wolves?

Annoyingly, yes. They were the only ones for some time whose Scouts were fluffed as being "full Marines" rather than just a buncha scrubs given guns and told to act as cannon fodder.

I think that might be a bit of a "TTS" interpretation of the lore, honestly. You make a newbie a scout because scouts would be the LEAST likely to see significant combat. Because generally the role of a scout is somewhat different than the role of a scout unit in 40k, where you start the battle knowing exactly what the opponent's army is and what reserves he has coming in.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

JSG wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I'll be buying the pack, but yeah I admit the infiltrators don;t exactly feel very space wolfish, but I'll put the infiltrators in my storm crows primaris chapter.

Given that Infiltrators are full blown marines performing stealth duties they're better suited to SW's than any other chapter.

Well known sneaky boys, the space wolves?

Annoyingly, yes. They were the only ones for some time whose Scouts were fluffed as being "full Marines" rather than just a buncha scrubs given guns and told to act as cannon fodder.

I think that might be a bit of a "TTS" interpretation of the lore, honestly. You make a newbie a scout because scouts would be the LEAST likely to see significant combat. Because generally the role of a scout is somewhat different than the role of a scout unit in 40k, where you start the battle knowing exactly what the opponent's army is and what reserves he has coming in.

It's not. It's the literal background.

For most chapters, Scouts simply aren't full Space Marines yet and often cannot even wear full power armour yet.

Where as among Space Wolves, Wolf Scouts are recruited from the normal ranks of Space Wolves (with recruits starting as Blood Claws instead), usually the more solitary and brooding types that don't "fit" well into the normal packs. They are said to be out on solitary missions, sometimes for years on end. Wolf Scouts are not assigned to a particular Great Company and answer to the Great Wolf directly.

Justyn wrote:

After all, this boxed set only has 1 Space Wolf in it.

True.

False, those are just space wolves marines that you don't like for some reason.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Justyn wrote:

After all, this boxed set only has 1 Space Wolf in it.

True.

False, those are just space wolves marines that you don't like for some reason.

They’re perfectly genericised. It’s perfectly, completely valid to say nothing about them is specifically space wolves.

It’s more subjective, but I’d still say common sense, to point out the high level of theming and detailing on them makes them harder to wolf up. Primaris were very much designed with ultramarines in mind.

And yet there's plenty of people out there who have done some fairly nice non-Ultramarines Primaris...

Yeah, the Phobos stuff is a bit harder to make use of the upgrade frames for since the shoulderpads don't quite 'fit' the Phobos gear as well as the standard Mark X stuff but the detailing bits still work well.

changemod wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Justyn wrote:

After all, this boxed set only has 1 Space Wolf in it.

True.

False, those are just space wolves marines that you don't like for some reason.

They’re perfectly genericised. It’s perfectly, completely valid to say nothing about them is specifically space wolves.

It’s more subjective, but I’d still say common sense, to point out the high level of theming and detailing on them makes them harder to wolf up. Primaris were very much designed with ultramarines in mind.

They are painted as Space Wolves - your argument that they are somehow not Space Wolves is just not valid.

If you really haev to WUlf Wulf Wulf them - I can't imagine any SW player not having plenty of Wulf bits that can be added.

I don't believe a proper space wolf player doesn't has half a thousand wolfy bits to put on his incursors even if this box doesn't has the upgrade sprue (that it should had, because the box sucks)

tneva82 wrote:
Ok. I trust you are not hypocrite then and don't play any primaris in space wolf army or recommend other wolves are?

Because the instant you do is the instant you actually admit they are wolf units. So you must play with zero primaris infantry, no repulsors, no invictors etc. Just the old marines. Otherwise you are hypcorite

You're still missing what he was saying. He's talking about the miniatures. There is a single Space Wolf miniature in there, and 10 other Space Marine miniatures that can be used in a Space Wolf army, but are not Space Wolf minis (unlike, say, these guys, or these guys).

D'ya get it yet?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Ok. I trust you are not hypocrite then and don't play any primaris in space wolf army or recommend other wolves are?

Because the instant you do is the instant you actually admit they are wolf units. So you must play with zero primaris infantry, no repulsors, no invictors etc. Just the old marines. Otherwise you are hypcorite

You're still missing what he was saying. He's talking about the miniatures. There is a single Space Wolf miniature in there, and 10 other Space Marine miniatures that can be used in a Space Wolf army, but are not Space Wolf minis (unlike, say, these guys, or these guys).

D'ya get it yet?

Paint them like Space Wolves and they are Space Wolves. If you ned to add some bits from you bits box if you need to WULF them up.

No other non Marine sub-sb faction get so much lavished on them - they don;t need yet more resources taken from everyone else to add yey more slightly different models that any Space Wolf player can make from the huge numbers of bis they have left over. I know I have loads of bits.

Demanding yet more special models after having a super new flagship model AND the majority of a so called cmapaign book dedicated to the Wolves smells like a huge pile of entitlement.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Ok. I trust you are not hypocrite then and don't play any primaris in space wolf army or recommend other wolves are?

Because the instant you do is the instant you actually admit they are wolf units. So you must play with zero primaris infantry, no repulsors, no invictors etc. Just the old marines. Otherwise you are hypcorite

You're still missing what he was saying. He's talking about the miniatures. There is a single Space Wolf miniature in there, and 10 other Space Marine miniatures that can be used in a Space Wolf army, but are not Space Wolf minis (unlike, say, these guys, or these guys).

D'ya get it yet?

Space wolf models are what you use in space wolf army Really concept is simple enough even kindergarden kid understand it.

So if you don't call them space wolf models then either you don't use them(or any primaris for that matter. No repulsor, no impulsor, no aggressors, no nothing) or you are a hypocrite.

Do they have Space Wolves keyword? Yes. Can you use them in space wolf army? Yes. Thus they are space wolf models.

If you use them in space wolf army and call them not space wolves you are hypocrite. Or liar. Choose whichever you like to describe you. I don't care.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Ok. I trust you are not hypocrite then and don't play any primaris in space wolf army or recommend other wolves are?

Because the instant you do is the instant you actually admit they are wolf units. So you must play with zero primaris infantry, no repulsors, no invictors etc. Just the old marines. Otherwise you are hypcorite

You're still missing what he was saying. He's talking about the miniatures. There is a single Space Wolf miniature in there, and 10 other Space Marine miniatures that can be used in a Space Wolf army, but are not Space Wolf minis (unlike, say, these guys, or these guys).

D'ya get it yet?

Hey, don't forget these guys:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Space-Wolves-Wulfen-2018

changemod wrote:
They’re perfectly genericised. It’s perfectly, completely valid to say nothing about them is specifically space wolves.

Nothing about my miniatures say "Order of the Ebon Lance". Oh wait, something does: the paintjob!

changemod wrote:
It’s more subjective, but I’d still say common sense, to point out the high level of theming and detailing on them makes them harder to wolf up. Primaris were very much designed with ultramarines in mind.

They are designed with space marines in mind. Nothing about them say ultramarines. Nothing. No Omega, no roman legion stuff like mohawk helmets (whatever they are called) or roman armored loincloth (whatever those are called too).
Space wolves happen to be space marines.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
There is a single Space Wolf miniature in there, and 10 other Space Marine miniatures that can be used in a Space Wolf army, but are not Space Wolf minis

That's just your way to see it. But you got it wrong. Actually it is 11 space wolves miniatures, 10 of which can be used in a Space Marines army, but are not Space Marines minis.

[edit]
We both got it wrong. They obviously aren't Space Wolves minis, they are Dark Angels minis that happen to be usable in a Space Marine, Blood Angel or Space Wolf army.
[/edit]

My comment didn't really need this much discussion. It was simply that there is 1 actual Space Wolf in the box. If I want Incursors or Inceptors or Intercessors or Infiltrators, I can buy those separately. So, since the Prophecy of the Wolf box only offers me 1 unique mini (if I don't play Orks), then $170 is ridiculous.

Obviously, a Space Wolf-painted Space Wolf is a Space Wolf. That's not what I was getting at. There are so many other kits that they could have put in the box that said "Space Wolf" rather than a box of Primaris marines and it would have enticed me more to purchase it. Especially if I were a new player that liked the Space Wolf range, but had no bits or other models.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Ok. I trust you are not hypocrite then and don't play any primaris in space wolf army or recommend other wolves are?

Because the instant you do is the instant you actually admit they are wolf units. So you must play with zero primaris infantry, no repulsors, no invictors etc. Just the old marines. Otherwise you are hypcorite

You're still missing what he was saying. He's talking about the miniatures. There is a single Space Wolf miniature in there, and 10 other Space Marine miniatures that can be used in a Space Wolf army, but are not Space Wolf minis (unlike, say, these guys, or these guys).

D'ya get it yet?

Morden's stuck in this mindset where the current edition exists in a vacuum without past editions having no influence on how we view the game. As such, Space Wolves have always been a cog in the "Imperium" army (which didn't exist rules-wise until this edition) rather than a distinct Codex.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
$170 for this set? Pass. I'll just wait on Rag to come out. After all, this boxed set only has 1 Space Wolf in it.

Not really it only has a single Wulf but plenty of Marines of the Space Wolves Chapter - hoepfully the wheel is turning back.

I give it less then 5 years before we start to see "special chapter primaris"

Not entirely on topic but kinda related I guess?

Special Chapter Primaris have already happened ladies and gents - we have Death Company Intercessors. Now before players jump on me and claim "but that's only a paintjob AAE!!" - I'm aware. So are GW. They have stated a number of times now that they aren't going to do Chapter-specific Primaris models. Rightly so in my opinion. It's a huge sink in terms of resource and means that GW suddenly need to spend more time designing "Space wolf Primaris" and "Blood Angel Primaris" and "Dark Angel Primaris" ad infinitum. Models that can be used across the entire range (Marines, in this case) are much more appropriate and a better use of time (they appeal to a greater audience for a start).

Anyone expecting SW specific Primaris in this set have not been following GW particularly closely.

By that metric, we already had Chapter Specfic Primaris in the Space Wolves Codex in the form of Primaris Wolf Priests.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Ok. I trust you are not hypocrite then and don't play any primaris in space wolf army or recommend other wolves are?

Because the instant you do is the instant you actually admit they are wolf units. So you must play with zero primaris infantry, no repulsors, no invictors etc. Just the old marines. Otherwise you are hypcorite

You're still missing what he was saying. He's talking about the miniatures. There is a single Space Wolf miniature in there, and 10 other Space Marine miniatures that can be used in a Space Wolf army, but are not Space Wolf minis (unlike, say, these guys, or these guys).

D'ya get it yet?

Morden's stuck in this mindset where the current edition exists in a vacuum without past editions having no influence on how we view the game. As such, Space Wolves have always been a cog in the "Imperium" army (which didn't exist rules-wise until this edition) rather than a distinct Codex.

And the "Imperium faction" already has ceased to exist since from a rules stand point, there's the odd disposition by some people to ignore the fact they're a stand alone army and just consider them a sub-choice of codex space marines like they're the same thing like the supplements.

the_scotsman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I'll be buying the pack, but yeah I admit the infiltrators don;t exactly feel very space wolfish, but I'll put the infiltrators in my storm crows primaris chapter.

Incursors are the closest thing to an assault troop that primaris marines have...in that they have exploding attacks on 6s as an ability.

Wheeeeee, assault units for primaris are so gooooood.

I hate to nitpick ... ok, I pick nits like an amphetamine fueled chimp but leaving that to the side, Incursors are not the closest thing to assault troops in the Primaris line. That honor goes to Reivers.

The Newman wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I'll be buying the pack, but yeah I admit the infiltrators don;t exactly feel very space wolfish, but I'll put the infiltrators in my storm crows primaris chapter.

Incursors are the closest thing to an assault troop that primaris marines have...in that they have exploding attacks on 6s as an ability.

Wheeeeee, assault units for primaris are so gooooood.

I hate to nitpick ... ok, I pick nits like an amphetamine fueled chimp but leaving that to the side, Incursors are not the closest thing to assault troops in the Primaris line. That honor goes to Reivers.

Pick smarter, not harder. Reivers aren't troops.