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Another one for clarity:

I shoot starweaver#1 with troupe#1 inside and it explodes. The explosion destroys starweaver#2 with troupe#2 next to it and it explodes as well.

As far as I understand the order of operations is like this:
- starweaver#1 loses its last wound
- roll for explosion#1
- resolve explosion#1
- starweaver#2 loses its last wound
- roll for explosion#2
- resolve explosion#2
- roll passenger deaths for troupe#2
- disembark troupe#2
- roll passengers deaths for troupe#1
- disembark troupe#1

So no harlequins are hit by any of the explosions, correct?

 Jidmah wrote:
Another one for clarity:

I shoot starweaver#1 with troupe#1 inside and it explodes. The explosion destroys starweaver#2 with troupe#2 next to it and it explodes as well.

As far as I understand the order of operations is like this:
- starweaver#1 loses its last wound
- roll for explosion#1
- resolve explosion#1
- starweaver#2 loses its last wound
- roll for explosion#2
- resolve explosion#2
- roll passenger deaths for troupe#2
- disembark troupe#2
- roll passengers deaths for troupe#1
- disembark troupe#1

So no harlequins are hit by any of the explosions, correct?

No, you disembark the Harlequins from Starweaver 1 first. You resolve the damage on Starweaver 2 when Starweaver 1 explodes, but you don't resolve the explodes ability until the destroy sequence for Starweaver 1 is finished, as per the BRB FAQ, page 11.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Another one for clarity:

I shoot starweaver#1 with troupe#1 inside and it explodes. The explosion destroys starweaver#2 with troupe#2 next to it and it explodes as well.

As far as I understand the order of operations is like this:
- starweaver#1 loses its last wound
- roll for explosion#1
- resolve explosion#1
- starweaver#2 loses its last wound
- roll for explosion#2
- resolve explosion#2
- roll passenger deaths for troupe#2
- disembark troupe#2
- roll passengers deaths for troupe#1
- disembark troupe#1

So no harlequins are hit by any of the explosions, correct?

No, you disembark the Harlequins from Starweaver 1 first. You resolve the damage on Starweaver 2 when Starweaver 1 explodes, but you don't resolve the explodes ability until the destroy sequence for Starweaver 1 is finished, as per the BRB FAQ, page 11.

No. First starweaver1 explodes, and destroys starweaver2, before the models from starweaver1 disembark. You have to resolve any resulting damage to nearby units in step 1 for SW1, before moving on to step 2, models from starweaver1 immediately disembark. Now you must resolve any resulting damage to nearby units in step 1 for SW2. Question is, do the models from SW1 already have disembarked, and get damage from the explosion of SW2, or do they disembark after the explosion ? The models from SW2 dont get damaged, because they disembark after the explosion of SW2.

Q: How do transports work with regards to disembarking units
upon the transport’s destruction?
A: Disembarking from a destroyed transport operates
as follows:
1. If the transport has the Explodes ability (or equivalent)
roll to see if it explodes and resolve any resulting
damage to nearby units.*
2. All models inside immediately disembark following the
standard rules for disembarkation.
3. Roll a number of D6 equal to the number of models
disembarked in this fashion.
4. Each result of a 1 yields a slain model, and must be
allocated to one of the models which disembarked; the
controlling player may choose which model.
5. Remove the destroyed transport model.

* Note that if the transport does explode, units being
transported are not affected as they are not yet on
the battlefield.

 p5freak wrote:
No. First starweaver1 explodes, and destroys starweaver2, before the models from starweaver1 disembark. You have to resolve any resulting damage to nearby units in step 1 for SW1, before moving on to step 2, models from starweaver1 immediately disembark. Now you must resolve any resulting damage to nearby units in step 1 for SW2. Question is, do the models from SW1 already have disembarked, and get damage from the explosion of SW2, or do they disembark after the explosion ? The models from SW2 dont get damaged, because they disembark after the explosion of SW2.

So we did it correctly, right?

 Jidmah wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
No. First starweaver1 explodes, and destroys starweaver2, before the models from starweaver1 disembark. You have to resolve any resulting damage to nearby units in step 1 for SW1, before moving on to step 2, models from starweaver1 immediately disembark. Now you must resolve any resulting damage to nearby units in step 1 for SW2. Question is, do the models from SW1 already have disembarked, and get damage from the explosion of SW2, or do they disembark after the explosion ? The models from SW2 dont get damaged, because they disembark after the explosion of SW2.

So we did it correctly, right?

No, while technically it doesn't make a difference in this particular case:

-SW #1 explode, resolve damage
-SW #2 loses its last wound as a result of above, SW #2 explodes, resolve damage
-contents of SW #1 resolves emergency disembark, because you now go back to step 2 for explodes on the SW #1 since all damage from SW#1 exploding has been resolved.
-contents of SW #2 resolves emergency disembark

All damages from Explodes! must be resolved for units on battlefield at the time of explosion before emergency disembarkation is resolved.

 p5freak wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Another one for clarity:

I shoot starweaver#1 with troupe#1 inside and it explodes. The explosion destroys starweaver#2 with troupe#2 next to it and it explodes as well.

As far as I understand the order of operations is like this:
- starweaver#1 loses its last wound
- roll for explosion#1
- resolve explosion#1
- starweaver#2 loses its last wound
- roll for explosion#2
- resolve explosion#2
- roll passenger deaths for troupe#2
- disembark troupe#2
- roll passengers deaths for troupe#1
- disembark troupe#1

So no harlequins are hit by any of the explosions, correct?

No, you disembark the Harlequins from Starweaver 1 first. You resolve the damage on Starweaver 2 when Starweaver 1 explodes, but you don't resolve the explodes ability until the destroy sequence for Starweaver 1 is finished, as per the BRB FAQ, page 11.

No. First starweaver1 explodes, and destroys starweaver2, before the models from starweaver1 disembark. You have to resolve any resulting damage to nearby units in step 1 for SW1, before moving on to step 2, models from starweaver1 immediately disembark. Now you must resolve any resulting damage to nearby units in step 1 for SW2. Question is, do the models from SW1 already have disembarked, and get damage from the explosion of SW2, or do they disembark after the explosion ? The models from SW2 dont get damaged, because they disembark after the explosion of SW2.

Q: How do transports work with regards to disembarking units
upon the transport’s destruction?
A: Disembarking from a destroyed transport operates
as follows:
1. If the transport has the Explodes ability (or equivalent)
roll to see if it explodes and resolve any resulting
damage to nearby units.*
2. All models inside immediately disembark following the
standard rules for disembarkation.
3. Roll a number of D6 equal to the number of models
disembarked in this fashion.
4. Each result of a 1 yields a slain model, and must be
allocated to one of the models which disembarked; the
controlling player may choose which model.
5. Remove the destroyed transport model.

* Note that if the transport does explode, units being
transported are not affected as they are not yet on
the battlefield.

You resolve the damage, you don't resolve any special rules that occur because of that damage until you finish the sequence for Starweaver 1. That is the FAQ I was referring to in my post.

@BCB so troupe#1 would have been hit by starweaver#2's explosion?

 Jidmah wrote:
@BCB so troupe#1 would have been hit by starweaver#2's explosion?

Yes because you disembark before resolving the explodes ability of weaver 2

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
@BCB so troupe#1 would have been hit by starweaver#2's explosion?

Yes because you disembark before resolving the explodes ability of weaver 2

Thats unclear. There is no rules how to resolve the described situation.

So, if I understand correctly, it really depends on whether you just resolve the damage and nothing else, or whether you assume that "resolve damage" includes any actions that result from that damage happening.

I understand this as the following.

1. vehicle 1 down to zero wounds.
2. Does it explode? Yes/No, if yes complete damage rolls. (roll's only)
3. Unit disembarks, roll any 1's model goes bye bye.
4. Did the wounds form explosion cause second tank to go to zero? Yes/No
5. If yes does it explode? yes/no, if yes complete damage rolls. (rolls only)
6. Disembark unit, roll any 1's model goes bye bye.
7. Resolve how many wounds first disembarked unit takes from that explosion.
8. Do any further vehicles go to zero? Yes/no
9. If yes repeat from step 5.

Basically everyone is posting a different order of operations

 Jidmah wrote:
Basically everyone is posting a different order of operations

well form the FAQ answer it states, you resolve the damage, but this is where the ambiguity comes into it. Does resolving the damage mean resolving the effect of the damage. The second tank exploding isn't the damage resolve any more, it's a result of reaching zero from resolving the damage.

This is why I would follow the path I stated. Because you would complete that order of events first, then move on to the second explosion as a result from the first set of events.

Make sense? I hope it does.

Well, arguably removing the model from play as a result of W reaching 0 is indeed a part of resolving damage, and Explodes! is a mechanic which interrupts the normal process of removing the slain model from play.

Alternatively, say a non-transport unit/model that was slain as a result of near by Explodes! - do you keep this unit/model in play until after you resolve emergency disembarkation?

 skchsan wrote:
Well, arguably removing the model from play as a result of W reaching 0 is indeed a part of resolving damage, and Explodes! is a mechanic which interrupts the normal process of removing the slain model from play.

Alternatively, say a non-transport unit/model that was slain as a result of near by Explodes! - do you keep this unit/model in play until after you resolve emergency disembarkation?

In our group we would decide how much damage is taken in that non exploding unit. Then remove the vehicle, disembark. Then remove any models if necessary form the damage rolls.

We agree'd a while ago that was the fairest way to do it and we were all happy with that.

40k Rulebook FAQ:

1 - If the transport has the Explodes ability (or equivalent)
roll to see if it explodes and resolve any resulting
damage to nearby units.*
2 - All models inside immediately disembark following the
standard rules for disembarkation.
3 - Roll a number of D6 equal to the number of models
disembarked in this fashion.
4 - Each result of a 1 yields a slain model, and must be
allocated to one of the models which disembarked; the
controlling player may choose which model.
5 - Remove the destroyed transport model.

I see the discussion between blowing the second transport up between step 1 and 2 or after step 5 (what is 'resolving damage').

But what do you do when your transport is surrounded by 6 marines (making it impossible for you to disembark) and blows up with 6 mortal wounds?

Would you accept your opponent saying "You do 6 mortal wounds, but I do not remove my marines, they prevent you from disembarking and after that I remove them.". Doesn't everyone remove whatever has been hit right away when doing the damage? And then disembark from the transport?

In other words, 'resolving damage' is including the affect (marines dying) of reducing the damage to 0. In the case of the original question, transport1 blows, transport2 blows (not damaging passengers of 1, they are not there yet), transport 2 disembark, transport 1 disembark. None of the passengers get hurt.

MorglumNecksnapper wrote:
40k Rulebook FAQ:

1 - If the transport has the Explodes ability (or equivalent)
roll to see if it explodes and resolve any resulting
damage to nearby units.*
2 - All models inside immediately disembark following the
standard rules for disembarkation.
3 - Roll a number of D6 equal to the number of models
disembarked in this fashion.
4 - Each result of a 1 yields a slain model, and must be
allocated to one of the models which disembarked; the
controlling player may choose which model.
5 - Remove the destroyed transport model.

I see the discussion between blowing the second transport up between step 1 and 2 or after step 5 (what is 'resolving damage').

But what do you do when your transport is surrounded by 6 marines (making it impossible for you to disembark) and blows up with 6 mortal wounds?

Would you accept your opponent saying "You do 6 mortal wounds, but I do not remove my marines, they prevent you from disembarking and after that I remove them.". Doesn't everyone remove whatever has been hit right away when doing the damage? And then disembark from the transport?

In other words, 'resolving damage' is including the affect (marines dying) of reducing the damage to 0. In the case of the original question, transport1 blows, transport2 blows (not damaging passengers of 1, they are not there yet), transport 2 disembark, transport 1 disembark. None of the passengers get hurt.

But the positioning of units disembarking transport 1 can potentially affect the positioning of units disembarking transport 2, therefore explodes! must be fully resolved for transport 1 prior to fully resolving the effect of explodes! on the second transport.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SeanDavid1991 wrote:
In our group we would decide how much damage is taken in that non exploding unit. Then remove the vehicle, disembark. Then remove any models if necessary form the damage rolls.

We agree'd a while ago that was the fairest way to do it and we were all happy with that.

You can't remove the exploded transport prior to disembarking as this affects where the models can be placed (i.e. within 3" of the transport)

I actually think if you really want to be strict on this, if the first vehicle exploding causes the second vehicle to explode, that then means you resolve the entire chain of the second vehicle exploding as part of the "resolving damage" portion of the first vehicle exploding.

So first vehicle explodes, you roll for damage against anything within range and resolve that damage (and remove any killed models except ones that explode) - then the second vehicle explodes, then you roll for damage for that one, then you disembark units for that one, then you remove it, THEN you continue with the explosion chain from the first one. So the first vehicle stays on the board, and the units stay embarked, until AFTER the second one has been fully resolved and removed from the table.

It's somewhat counterintuitive but I think it's the only way you can avoid treating the second exploding model differently than any other model. I.e. if your vehicle explodes when surrounded by infantry, nobody would argue that you don't remove the killed infantry models before disembarking. So it seems like it'd be a conflict to argue that the second exploded vehicle does stay around during the disembarkation of the units from the first.

yukishiro1 wrote:
I actually think if you really want to be strict on this, if the first vehicle exploding causes the second vehicle to explode, that then means you resolve the entire chain of the second vehicle exploding as part of the "resolving damage" portion of the first vehicle exploding.

So first vehicle explodes, you roll for damage against anything within range and resolve that damage (and remove any killed models except ones that explode) - then the second vehicle explodes, then you roll for damage for that one, then you disembark units for that one, then you remove it, THEN you continue with the explosion chain from the first one. So the first vehicle stays on the board, and the units stay embarked, until AFTER the second one has been fully resolved and removed from the table.

It's somewhat counterintuitive but I think it's the only way you can avoid treating the second exploding model differently than any other model. I.e. if your vehicle explodes when surrounded by infantry, nobody would argue that you don't remove the killed infantry models before disembarking. So it seems like it'd be a conflict to argue that the second exploded vehicle does stay around during the disembarkation of the units from the first.

I'd say it's more counter intuitive to say the resulting chain reaction affects the cause of the chain reaction (i.e. placement of emergency disembark-ing units)

 skchsan wrote:

But the positioning of units disembarking transport 1 can potentially affect the positioning of units disembarking transport 2, therefore explodes! must be fully resolved for transport 1 prior to fully resolving the effect of explodes! on the second transport.

I don't follow your logic why that would be relevant. That's like saying moving unit A affects the movement of unit B, so you have to move unit A first. No I don't, I'm gonna move unit B first.

The resolving of transport 2 is part of resolving transport 1, you can't finish the affect on transport 1 without finishing the affects on transport 2 first.

Again, following your logic you want to disembark the passengers before removing the marines (or any other models hit by the blast) - they are in that case 'transport 2' and removing them from the table is the same as removing transport 2 from the table - . I haven't heard anyone yet who would play it that way.

MorglumNecksnapper wrote:

 skchsan wrote:

But the positioning of units disembarking transport 1 can potentially affect the positioning of units disembarking transport 2, therefore explodes! must be fully resolved for transport 1 prior to fully resolving the effect of explodes! on the second transport.

I don't follow your logic why that would be relevant. That's like saying moving unit A affects the movement of unit B, so you have to move unit A first. No I don't, I'm gonna move unit B first.

The resolving of transport 2 is part of resolving transport 1, you can't finish the affect on transport 1 without finishing the affects on transport 2 first.

Again, following your logic you want to disembark the passengers before removing the marines (or any other models hit by the blast) - they are in that case 'transport 2' and removing them from the table is the same as removing transport 2 from the table - . I haven't heard anyone yet who would play it that way.

You're not disembarking before you remove the casualties of the explosion. Please read the post in full.

I'm discussing the order in which the emergency disembarkation happens, not what happens when the damage is dealt at step 1 of explode.

If you can't place the models under the given allowances of emergency disembarkation, they are removed from play.

You cannot manipulate the order in which the disembark happens in order to 'save' the more precious cargo.

For example, two full starweavers are surround on three sides, leaving room for only 5 models for emergency disembarkation. SW#1, which explodes first, is equipped barebone, while the SW#2 is armed to the teeth. In such case, you cannot emergency disembark the second transport in lieu of the contents of the first because SW#1 exploded first.

 skchsan wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
I actually think if you really want to be strict on this, if the first vehicle exploding causes the second vehicle to explode, that then means you resolve the entire chain of the second vehicle exploding as part of the "resolving damage" portion of the first vehicle exploding.

So first vehicle explodes, you roll for damage against anything within range and resolve that damage (and remove any killed models except ones that explode) - then the second vehicle explodes, then you roll for damage for that one, then you disembark units for that one, then you remove it, THEN you continue with the explosion chain from the first one. So the first vehicle stays on the board, and the units stay embarked, until AFTER the second one has been fully resolved and removed from the table.

It's somewhat counterintuitive but I think it's the only way you can avoid treating the second exploding model differently than any other model. I.e. if your vehicle explodes when surrounded by infantry, nobody would argue that you don't remove the killed infantry models before disembarking. So it seems like it'd be a conflict to argue that the second exploded vehicle does stay around during the disembarkation of the units from the first.

I'd say it's more counter intuitive to say the resulting chain reaction affects the cause of the chain reaction (i.e. placement of emergency disembark-ing units)

I agree both approaches have their counterintuitive elements. But to me, you have to fully resolve the second explosion and remove the model before you disembark the units from the first exploded vehicle. Otherwise you're treating the exploding vehicle differently than any other unit that is killed by the explosion. I just can't see any way to justify saying that if you explode and kill three infantry models and a vehicle, you remove the infantry models before you disembark your units, but whether you remove the second vehicle before disembarking depends on whether it exploded or not. It doesn't make any sense to me that a non-exploding vehicle would be removed before you disembark, but an exploding vehicle's model would stay on the board until after you disembark, even though the explosion woudln't hit your units that disembark before the model is removed.

That's actually a very good point.