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Lammia wrote:
Force Weapons outright slaying models...

...

...I think...

You mean before every character and his dog was given Eternal Warrior?

 vipoid wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Force Weapons outright slaying models...

...

...I think...

You mean before every character and his dog was given Eternal Warrior?

Hey, only the Space Marines got that! And relics which gave Eternal Warrior!
If you weren't a Space Marine then your special characters and HQs had little to no access to it.

Worst offender for that kind of thing was the relic storm shield from the space marine codex. Gave eternal warrior and a 3++ invulnerable save. And it cost a similar amount to the Tau Shield Generator battlesuit system which only gave a 4++ save and no eternal warrior.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Force Weapons outright slaying models...

...

...I think...

You mean before every character and his dog was given Eternal Warrior?

Hey, only the Space Marines got that! And relics which gave Eternal Warrior!
If you weren't a Space Marine then your special characters and HQs had little to no access to it.

Worst offender for that kind of thing was the relic storm shield from the space marine codex. Gave eternal warrior and a 3++ invulnerable save. And it cost a similar amount to the Tau Shield Generator battlesuit system which only gave a 4++ save and no eternal warrior.

yea... I hated all of the.. well guess all my ork characters other than Ghaz get to be slain by some no name marine psycher. apparently Wazdakka can race his bike and ramp it into the head of a titan and take it down... but put him against a librarian and we have our limit.

The most ironic thing about Force Weapons was that originally they were anti-daemon weapons that daemons got no save against, eventually they turned into armor-save ignoring weapons that inflicted Instant Death...at a time when Daemons generally all had invulnerable saves only and all had Eternal Warrior, making Force Weapons no more effective against daemons than a rifle butt or boot knife

I do not miss old force weapons.

My Azrael, supreme grand master of dark angels and all successors has just been one shot by a single failed wound roll by a grey knight troop choice. :/.....fun.

I miss disembarking from open topped vehicles and landraiders after moving

I miss some of but not all of 2nd Ed.


Speed modifiers meant fast units used speed as protection (Eldar and genestealers were at-1 to hit if they ran).

Close combat was clunky but not as lethal as every one remembers. 3rd + saw more unit slaughter from a single character. Although it was technically possible, 2nd Ed in practice saw most characters outclassed by outnumbering that ended in stalemate. After the 3rd or 4th mook, your character was usually losing the contest. Only calgar could slaughter his way through because he ignored the outnumbering bonus.

I miss the days when my Broadside railguns weren't weaker than the lascannon a space marine can carry on his shoulder, despite being over twice the size. The days when they were terrifying tank killers who could kill a land raider with a single well placed shot, rather than their current status of drowning enemies in missiles.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
I miss the days when my Broadside railguns weren't weaker than the lascannon a space marine can carry on his shoulder, despite being over twice the size. The days when they were terrifying tank killers who could kill a land raider with a single well placed shot, rather than their current status of drowning enemies in missiles.

Oh god, right. Theyre S8 now, yeah?

 Insectum7 wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
I miss the days when my Broadside railguns weren't weaker than the lascannon a space marine can carry on his shoulder, despite being over twice the size. The days when they were terrifying tank killers who could kill a land raider with a single well placed shot, rather than their current status of drowning enemies in missiles.

Oh god, right. Theyre S8 now, yeah?

Eeyup.

Stupidest change from the 4th to 6th ed codex. I get that barely anyone took Hammerheads with the 4th edition codex (because you could take multiple Broadsides whose guns were just as strong against single targets but were also twin linked and so more accurate for a similar cost as a kitted out Hammerhead) but the answer to that would have been to make the Hammerhead better by making it more accurate and more reliable at penetrating armour (such as making it an Ordnance weapon so it would roll 2D6 and pick highest for armour penetration rolls). Also, the Hammerhead had the submunition round which made it excellent against infantry with a S6 AP4 pie plate. That saved my skin against Necrons several times in 5th/early pre-codex 6th.

Alternatively GW had its new Broadside kits to sell and knew everyone who played already had railsides and so made them crap to shift the new kit for people who now needed missile pods.

^Ugh. That's so dumb.

Man, those S10 AP1 Railcannons were effing terrifying back in 3rd and 4th. I guess 5th too, but the vehicle damage chart changed and made them a little tougher.

Speaking of 3rd and 4th. I miss the Monolith of those days. The superheavy before superheavies.

The old broadsides also just looked better. The new ones carrying their guns like rifles just look stupid.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
The old broadsides also just looked better. The new ones carrying their guns like rifles just look stupid.

I like the newer rail guns personally, but its kind of moot since nobody would bother to take a glorified expensive single profile space marine missile launcher.

 Vaktathi wrote:
The most ironic thing about Force Weapons was that originally they were anti-daemon weapons that daemons got no save against, eventually they turned into armor-save ignoring weapons that inflicted Instant Death...at a time when Daemons generally all had invulnerable saves only and all had Eternal Warrior, making Force Weapons no more effective against daemons than a rifle butt or boot knife

I remember thinking back in 5e that GKs seemed better equipped to be an anti-Tyranid army than an anti-Daemon army.

As you say, Daemons all had invulnerable saves and eternal warrior. The same couldn't be said for Tyranids. What's more, with the introduction of Halberds that granted +2I, GKs could strike as fast as Genestealers, removing even the initiative advantage Tyranids might have otherwise possessed.

I miss the days when GW would define a rule (e.g. Deep Strike, Feel No Pain) and then just use that for all codices.

I also miss rerolls being sacred, being rewarded for getting to the side/behind a vehicle, and most of all proper weapon skill. A Guardsman does not hit Khan as easily as he hits his Guardsman mate!

There isn't much I get nostalgic about from Rogue Trader....
But 2nd Edition? Oh, man.

Weapons with Guess range.
Persistent smoke clouds, that moved randomly each turn.
Datafaxes.

I miss being able to take bionics on all my guardsmen sergents and then proceed to roll 6's and get them back up. Having 3 lone sergents running round the table was a hoot!

I miss, and probably always will miss, terrain height. I like the +1 to armour that cover gives in 8th edition, but I feel GeeDubs could have done more with cover. Some terrain could give -1 to hit. If this was the case then I might be able to like the all LOS everywhere.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
I miss the days when my Broadside railguns weren't weaker than the lascannon a space marine can carry on his shoulder, despite being over twice the size. The days when they were terrifying tank killers who could kill a land raider with a single well placed shot, rather than their current status of drowning enemies in missiles.

I miss this too. Was VERY annoyed to see them reduced to less than a lascannon.


#1 thing I miss the most?
Jump/shoot/jump with Tau jetpacks.
Bad Balistic skill was tolerable when we had this.

I miss when I found 40k fun...

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I miss when I found 40k fun...

This!
I think we can safely close this thread now.

8th is the edition that made me give up on 40k, I've been playing since the start of 2nd edition. Seeing what GW and 40K have morphed into is honestly quite upsetting. Reading this thread and remembering all the previous editions made me sad at just how lackluster and corporate the current 40K is.

RIP 40k... you were a fun game, that gave players years of enjoyment and laughter.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I miss when I found 40k fun...

Yeah, I feel you. I'd love to play some good old school 40k. But noone at the club I'm at wants to play anything but 8th ed.

 jobalisk wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I miss when I found 40k fun...

Yeah, I feel you. I'd love to play some good old school 40k. But noone at the club I'm at wants to play anything but 8th ed.

Honestly, 8e is pretty good I think.

For the things I miss, there's a lot more that I don't. And 8e in general is pretty streamlined, not-arcane, and reasonably well balanced [at least was until C:SM 2.0 came out]

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Ugh. That's so dumb.

Man, those S10 AP1 Railcannons were effing terrifying back in 3rd and 4th. I guess 5th too, but the vehicle damage chart changed and made them a little tougher.

Speaking of 3rd and 4th. I miss the Monolith of those days. The superheavy before superheavies.

I mean....they're AP4 and can cause mortal wounds and have two shots. So calling them worse than lascannons is a bit of a stretch.

 jobalisk wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I miss when I found 40k fun...

Yeah, I feel you. I'd love to play some good old school 40k. But noone at the club I'm at wants to play anything but 8th ed.

Because 8e is actually fun.

I made this thread to highlight some lovely old times. But it did what I hoped it would. Brought out conversations.

Conversations about things that made people love the hobby.

Conversations about the horrors of things that have been and changed.

The game is ever changing, if you don't like it as it is now just read through this thread and see how much has changed. Chances are it will change again, so people don't need to moan relentlessly. If you don't like game in it's current state, shelf your army and wait. Or learn to enjoy what it currently is and look forward to what changes it brings in future.

That being said, I do miss the days when you could combat hop with combat armies. I went through about 4/5 lists all getting mephisted because mephiston could combat hop destroy me, it was fun learning to counter that.

For me, as stated before, i do miss the blast templates and scatter dice, armor facing and fire arks of vehicle weapons.
But the things i miss most is the -to hit modifier you used to get when shooting through other squads (friend and foe) to shoot at some guys knee, and the time before CP and reroll stratagem. I do find stratas fun as it extends your tactical options, but i do enjoy the game more when both sides have burned all their CP, and a diceroll's result is more definitive. There's a lot more tension about crucial rolls that way.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Ugh. That's so dumb.

Man, those S10 AP1 Railcannons were effing terrifying back in 3rd and 4th. I guess 5th too, but the vehicle damage chart changed and made them a little tougher.

Speaking of 3rd and 4th. I miss the Monolith of those days. The superheavy before superheavies.

I mean....they're AP4 and can cause mortal wounds and have two shots. So calling them worse than lascannons is a bit of a stretch.

A: I don't think I did.

B: There's two shots because there's two of them. It's like a twin linked Lascannon. So each Railgun is S8 AP-4 D6D, 6+ to wound does a Mortal. Which is. . . comparable to a Lascannon. I thikn I'd rather have S9 than an additonal AP and a potential mortal. (Also, marine Lascannons can be -4 now because of Doctrines)
But the original was outright superior at S10 AP1 72" range vs. S9 AP2 48" range. Even more superior because of how armor-pen and/or damage tables worked, depending on edition.

 wallygator wrote:
For me, as stated before, i do miss the blast templates and scatter dice, armor facing and fire arks of vehicle weapons.
But the things i miss most is the -to hit modifier you used to get when shooting through other squads (friend and foe) to shoot at some guys knee, and the time before CP and reroll stratagem. I do find stratas fun as it extends your tactical options, but i do enjoy the game more when both sides have burned all their CP, and a diceroll's result is more definitive. There's a lot more tension about crucial rolls that way.

You know, I also kind of feel this. Once you get to turn 3, when you've each got like 2-3CP left and you're looking to just squeeze the maximum out of the few stratagems you have left, is honestly the most fun part of the game to me now.

Turn 1-2, when 2/3 of either army just gets shoveled off the table, have become a bit mechanical.

the_scotsman wrote:

 wallygator wrote:
For me, as stated before, i do miss the blast templates and scatter dice, armor facing and fire arks of vehicle weapons.
But the things i miss most is the -to hit modifier you used to get when shooting through other squads (friend and foe) to shoot at some guys knee, and the time before CP and reroll stratagem. I do find stratas fun as it extends your tactical options, but i do enjoy the game more when both sides have burned all their CP, and a diceroll's result is more definitive. There's a lot more tension about crucial rolls that way.

You know, I also kind of feel this. Once you get to turn 3, when you've each got like 2-3CP left and you're looking to just squeeze the maximum out of the few stratagems you have left, is honestly the most fun part of the game to me now.

Turn 1-2, when 2/3 of either army just gets shoveled off the table, have become a bit mechanical.

Meh, ... why not just get rid of the models entirely,
and play the card game instead?

2nd ed was a proper miniatures game.
3rd, 4th... valiant efforts.

Came back at the tail-end of 7th,
and bought the infamous Imperial Agents book for myself for my Birthday to celebrate.

Slavered all over the release of 8th, figuring we would see more continuity after GW puked blood all over WFB fans.

But, they decided to us instead.

Yeah, OK, there are some cool enough plastic models,
contrast paints have been fun (reminiscent to the old inks, anyone?)
and Sisters are OK for the most part,
but...
this guy nailed it here:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 stonehorse wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
I miss when I found 40k fun...

This!
I think we can safely close this thread now.

8th is the edition that made me give up on 40k, I've been playing since the start of 2nd edition. Seeing what GW and 40K have morphed into is honestly quite upsetting. Reading this thread and remembering all the previous editions made me sad at just how lackluster and corporate the current 40K is.

RIP 40k... you were a fun game, that gave players years of enjoyment and laughter.

Imo 8th is pretty good, overall. I rate it behind 4th and 2nd, but it's pretty solid. I think it has really great foundations. Take away Stratagems and the SM supplements, then add in some terrain rules and you've got a great game.

8th is my favourite edition, tied with 5th, if you don't take it too seriously.

I think a lot of stratagems could be pruned back, as above, and I'm not overly a fan of the SM supplements (I love the extra lore and successor stuff and the alternative relics and traits and powers, but I'm not a fan of all the "free" stuff), but generally speaking, it's fun to play.

I was on board with 8th until the killiness just steadily went off the charts...making the game feel utterly pointless in too many cases. Haven't played in 5-6 months and don't see myself doing so again. It's all good though, I left after 3.5 and only came back in 8th, so I'll convert my armies back to 2nd ed. style or adopt other rules, etc.