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I was thinking about what kind of rounds Leman Russes use and I had a random idea:

What if Vanquishers had access to some kind of HVAP filled with the same aquilla shaped pieces of shrapenel found in the Wyverns' gun's ammo? From what I remember there are like thousands of them in each shell, and Im pretty sure they have a tendency to ricochet which is why Wyverns had, and maybe still have, Ignores Cover and Shred/re-roll wounds. Just imagine the damage that stuff could do. If it was real it would be Geneva-level banned as each penetrating shot would almost guarantee the death or near death of the entire crew.

Translating that to 40k, I could even imagine a single such round ripping apart a carnifex from the inside, killing it in a bloody but effective manner. While being much more simple and much cheaper to produce than something like a melta-based shell, it would also be much more effective than AP with or without High Explosives that Im pretty sure Vanquishers currently use. (Apperantly they use Anti-Tank rounds but I assume thats just the name they use for super advanced 40k AP shells)

..
Speaking of, what do regular Russes use? I read they just use Smoke and plain High Explosives but the Battle Cannon rules seem too good against armour for that to be the case and I dont recall any Russ loaders ever switching rounds in the fluff.

So, would an example of innovation this minor be heretical to the Mechanicus? And does anyone else have ideas for badass rounds that could concievably be in 40k?

I'd say its heresy. Space Wolves swapped the sponson guns on a Predator and the Mechanicus argued over it for centuries.

Russ do use high explosive and armour-piercing. Vanquishers also use what's essentially HVAPFSDS shot rounds - I'm not sure what extent a shrapnel capability could be added.

For anti-carnifex work, "beasthunter" shells were essentially battlecannon calibre hellfire rounds.

As to the mechanicus' opinions? I give you the following quote from imperial armour I...

"The best way of improving a gun is to improve its ammunition."
- Hieronymus, High Magos and Arch-heretic of Artemia Majoris (terminated on request of Fabricator-General)

pm713 wrote:
I'd say its heresy. Space Wolves swapped the sponson guns on a Predator and the Mechanicus argued over it for centuries.

I recall something like that. Is it the lascannon sponsons?


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locarno24 wrote:
Russ do use high explosive and armour-piercing. Vanquishers also use what's essentially HVAPFSDS shot rounds - I'm not sure what extent a shrapnel capability could be added.

For anti-carnifex work, "beasthunter" shells were essentially battlecannon calibre hellfire rounds.

As to the mechanicus' opinions? I give you the following quote from imperial armour I...

"The best way of improving a gun is to improve its ammunition."
- Hieronymus, High Magos and Arch-heretic of Artemia Majoris (terminated on request of Fabricator-General)

See the thing is I feel like anything like sabos or discarding sabots are too out of place for 40k. I always just imagined an HVAP but with smiliar (but better) performance as what they used. As for the beasthunter shells I have heard about those. Completley forgot about them but they seem like an even more gruesome type of round than my idea Less simple, but a lot more 40k esque than just mere bouncing shrapenel so it works, and even though it sounds more effective against organics and most tanks, I can picture stormshard-filled shells being used in an anti infantry role when trying to clear out something like a bunker where the larger interior space will play to the stormshards' advantage moreso than Hellfire.

I wish there was more rules to represent different ammo. Even making smoke launchers not once per battle would be a start as Russes should have smoke rounds. Better yet, make Vanquishers actually decent so I dont have to use that battle cannon relic as a counts-as for my Tank Commander. Legit anything, like d3 mortal wounds on 6s or d6min3 damage when targeting vehicles or monsters would go a long way for me. Vanqs are my favourite variant if you couldnt tell aha.

... Jeez. The Cog men are even more fractured than the Inquisition.
So there goes my only chance for getting my new design officially approved.


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Edit: Oh looks like he was branded a heretic before he said that quote. Although I have a feeling he was a heretic simply for trying to innovate, as thats a mind shatteringly innocent quote for a supposed "arch-heretic"

He was executed for experimenting with alternate ammunition types.

In fairness - it's slightly out of context - the alternate ammunition wasn't for a cannon per se:

"Artemia Majoris was the scene of the Hieronymite Heresy when Hieronymites (followers of High Magos-Alchemys Hieronymus) were outlawed and eventually eliminated for their experimentation into prescribed bio-chemical compounds."

He was messing around with chemical weapons which - in the Fabricator General's eyes - came a bit close to trying to recreate phosphex.

The "weapon" in question was the flamethrower of the Artemia-pattern Hellhound - and, ironically, the toxic fuel developed ultimately got sanctioned and became the basis for the Bane Wolf....

Yes it was the lascannon sponsons. This is what happens when you let your science get replaced by priests of a particularly wacky religion.

According to IA1:2E, Leman Russes have two standard rounds, the Mk3-G4 high explosive and the Mk12-G4 anti-tank. They are pretty standard, with the AT having a small bursting charge. I think that the stats in game are used to represent both types, so that you use the same profile against both targets, even though you are changing shells.

Leman Russes also have access to a variety of special shells. These include Infernus, Illumination, Smoke, and Hunter. Hunter shells are interesting, in that they track a target using hunter-killer missile technology. However, they were only made on a single forgeworld, Tigrus, which was lost to Orks.

The Vanquisher can use all of the same ammunition as the regular Russ, with two notable additions. Vanquisher shells are described similar to early sabot rounds, with a discarded outer shoe and a soft ballistic cap.

They also have the infamous beast-hunter shell, which contains a bio-mutagenic acid.

Now, the problem with having fillings to your AT shells is that they have less penetrating power than solid shots. You are trading out solid metal for a lighter and softer filling. Additionally, it isn't really needed. A solid shot entering a vehicle is still going to do plenty of damage, due to all of the spalling produced. There is also the fact that the crew of a penetrated vehicle will almost always bail out immediately, they are not going to stick around for a second shot.

For people who never delete anything the Mechanicus are awful at preserving technology...

Also what's spalling?

When a shot goes through armour, flakes and shards of metal break off around the hole. These fly around the inside, tearing everything apart. Not a nice thing to happen to you.

Also, regarding the Mechanicus, they have vast stores of knowledge in their archives. However, there is no knowing if it has been corrupted at some point. You dig around and find a cool design. Then years later it turns out that it summons daemons or something, because a small section of code or circuits was corrupted by a daemon or Dark Mechanicus. So the Mechanicus have to spend massive amounts of time cross referencing and trying to find other examples of things, to see if they are correct.

The shot doesnt even need to penetrate if the armour plate is a single solid chunk with no spall protection. Hence HESH shells were effective against older tank designs. Didn't need to breach the armour to kill the tank. Just turn the inside Into a mincing machine and dice the crew.


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Also there is an Auger shell.referenced in one of the Gaunt books used to mess up a bane blade in a suitably epic battle sequence.

Oh that sounds nasty.

But they also hoard their knowledge so rather than Forge World Plasma sharing their technology so other places at least know how to replicate it even if they don't have the facilities. If they shared their knowledge it would be much better.
Also not deleting anything is a problem in itself. If something is scrapcode, gibberish or Bob the farmers diary from M34 then it's still saved.

Compared to their own silliness the problem of demonic corruption is tiny.