Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Something that I keep seeing in that coronavirus thread is specific individuals are repeating disinformation that cannot be refuted without engaging in specific political discourse.

And it's infuriating that it is being allowed.

While I can appreciate the frustration there, the other side of that coin is that the topic inherently touches on political issues, but is kind of a little too big for us to just ban discussion of coronavirus entirely... So the fact that it has been skirting political issues without people escalating those arguments has been greatly appreciated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ValentineGames wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

I gotta be honest, I'm reading some of your posts... and I think you are consistently impolite.

Damn right I am. I say what I think.

Being polite and saying what you think are not actually mutually exclusive.

But if you acknowledge that your behaviour is impolite, I'm a little puzzled as to why you would be complaining about being pegged for being impolite on a board that has a requirement to be polite as its primary rule. It's like deliberately walking into a wall and then complaining that the wall is there.

I just wanted to chime in that I absolutely love this site and have huge appreciation for yakface, legoburner, and the mods for making Dakka what it is. It's a thankless task and I appreciate their efforts.

 insaniak wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Something that I keep seeing in that coronavirus thread is specific individuals are repeating disinformation that cannot be refuted without engaging in specific political discourse.

And it's infuriating that it is being allowed.

While I can appreciate the frustration there, the other side of that coin is that the topic inherently touches on political issues, but is kind of a little too big for us to just ban discussion of coronavirus entirely... So the fact that it has been skirting political issues without people escalating those arguments has been greatly appreciated.

And on the flipside, that stuff seriously needs to either be getting removed or the posters in question need to be getting removed. That stuff is not okay, and a large amount of it is currently being driven by astroturfing groups that are more interested in $$$$$ than people.

 insaniak wrote:

But if you acknowledge that your behaviour is impolite, I'm a little puzzled as to why you would be complaining about being pegged for being impolite on a board that has a requirement to be polite as its primary rule. It's like deliberately walking into a wall and then complaining that the wall is there.

I know it wasn’t your intention, but thanks for giving me the best laugh I’ve had all day sir.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
What I think could help in addition to the measures you already have taken would be explicitly banning the topics that keep taking threads on new releases off topic for the N&R forum:
- marines get too many releases
- why poster's faction deserves a release more than whoever the new release is for
- why the faction didn't deserve a release
- complaining about the new thing being better than whatever poster's faction has (no one in specific, there are multiple people doing this).
I've let myself be baited into those kind of discussion multiple times, but there really is no point in them.

It would be better to ban people who ask for bans on these subjects.

The mass flagging, cliques and big-mother on the board is very off-putting.

So you would prefer having these topics discussed for the hundredth time, rather than the new release?
The suggestion was for New&Rumors only, these are perfectly fine topics to discuss in 40k general or your faction's chat-thread.

 Jidmah wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
What I think could help in addition to the measures you already have taken would be explicitly banning the topics that keep taking threads on new releases off topic for the N&R forum:
- marines get too many releases
- why poster's faction deserves a release more than whoever the new release is for
- why the faction didn't deserve a release
- complaining about the new thing being better than whatever poster's faction has (no one in specific, there are multiple people doing this).
I've let myself be baited into those kind of discussion multiple times, but there really is no point in them.

It would be better to ban people who ask for bans on these subjects.

The mass flagging, cliques and big-mother on the board is very off-putting.

So you would prefer having these topics discussed for the hundredth time, rather than the new release?
The suggestion was for New&Rumors only, these are perfectly fine topics to discuss in 40k general or your faction's chat-thread.

If you're not interested in a topic, why not just read it? I have no interest in playing chess, but I don't spend my time asking for the Parks department to ban it from being played publicly.

What?

The OP is about PA:Saga of the Beast. I'm extremely interested in that. The last four pages of that thread are about the four topics outlined in my post. They have no business being in that thread.

Sorry, I misread your post. I thought you were talking about new topics, not topics being derailed - I should have read more carefully before responding.

Compared to "back in my day" with IRC and BBS, DakkaDakka is positively warm and fuzzy. I'll never understand people who get upset at "mean words on the internets", like just close the browser if you don't like it, or block them.

 insaniak wrote:

But if you acknowledge that your behaviour is impolite, I'm a little puzzled as to why you would be complaining about being pegged for being impolite on a board that has a requirement to be polite as its primary rule. It's like deliberately walking into a wall and then complaining that the wall is there.

That's not what I'm complaining about... In fact that's not even closely related to what I said

In recent news, people on the internet continue pissing southwards into North-bound winds.

Let's try to reel this back in to the topic, guys - if you've got specific suggestions for moderation on the site (like in the OP) feel free to post, but let's not use this as a place to bash each other, please.

Oh, and thanks creeping deth!

 RiTides wrote:
Let's try to reel this back in to the topic, guys - if you've got specific suggestions for moderation on the site (like in the OP) feel free to post, but let's not use this as a place to bash each other, please.

Oh, and thanks creeping deth!

You're welcome bro

 Jidmah wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
What I think could help in addition to the measures you already have taken would be explicitly banning the topics that keep taking threads on new releases off topic for the N&R forum:
- marines get too many releases
- why poster's faction deserves a release more than whoever the new release is for
- why the faction didn't deserve a release
- complaining about the new thing being better than whatever poster's faction has (no one in specific, there are multiple people doing this).
I've let myself be baited into those kind of discussion multiple times, but there really is no point in them.

It would be better to ban people who ask for bans on these subjects.

The mass flagging, cliques and big-mother on the board is very off-putting.

So you would prefer having these topics discussed for the hundredth time, rather than the new release?
The suggestion was for New&Rumors only, these are perfectly fine topics to discuss in 40k general or your faction's chat-thread.

Let's make sure I understand what you are saying:

- Discussing topics repeatedly, or
- Banning people

If I got that right...

My opinion is somewhere between those two extremes lies a happy medium, and mods should take a hard look at the people encouraging them to take extreme measures against other users.

Just to be clear, permanent suspensions (we don't actually use the word "ban" really ) take a long time to occur and involve a Lot of warnings along the way. There is no "nuke from orbit... it's the only way to be sure" approach here!

 techsoldaten wrote:
Let's make sure I understand what you are saying:

- Discussing topics repeatedly, or
- Banning people

If I got that right...

My opinion is somewhere between those two extremes lies a happy medium, and mods should take a hard look at the people encouraging them to take extreme measures against other users.

I suggest banning those topics (not users!) from N&R (as well as similar topics for other games, like those "AoS sucks!" postings), so posts taking yet another threads in their direction would result in the same actions as any other forum violation would.

I think the biggest thing is that punishment is often a very bad way to prevent things from reoccurring. If the behavior isn't always being punished, it will continue.
People post bad horrible stuff here all the time, but it doesn't get flagged.
So when it does, they get their punishment, but then if they continue it didn't work because not every post is being punished.
Idk, I'm just trying to think of it in ABA terms lol.
Maybe just.......don't respond to bad posts?

 Overread wrote:

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I let that poster get to me today again. Just the mere sight of them sets me off, and the ignore button doesn’t cut it. If I’m honest, the way things are going, I probably won’t make it.

Have you considered just taking a break from the forum? Getting out there for a few (one a day with social isolation) walks; engaging with the hobby with some building and painting and perhaps cleaning out the attic?

If another user is getting this much anger from you online it sounds a bit like you just need to cool off and take a break and come back in a bit. Seeing someone online on a gaming forum shouldn't be making your react like this to the point where you're sure you're going to do something that gets you banned from the site.

I wish I could, but unfortunately I'm still out working that this time, in a job I thought I was long done with. It's proving both mentally and physically demanding, and I've only got the weekends to myself. This place is one of the only things keeping me anchored to the hobby, and it helps to take my mind of the job even during the day, so I don't want to leave it.

And yes, seeing someone on a gaming forum shouldn't be making me so mad, but with the crap they've said and continue to say going unchallenged it just gets my hackles up. And like I said before, the ignore function doesn't cut it unfortunately.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Something that I keep seeing in that coronavirus thread is specific individuals are repeating disinformation that cannot be refuted without engaging in specific political discourse.

And it's infuriating that it is being allowed.

While I can appreciate the frustration there, the other side of that coin is that the topic inherently touches on political issues, but is kind of a little too big for us to just ban discussion of coronavirus entirely... So the fact that it has been skirting political issues without people escalating those arguments has been greatly appreciated.

And on the flipside, that stuff seriously needs to either be getting removed or the posters in question need to be getting removed. That stuff is not okay, and a large amount of it is currently being driven by astroturfing groups that are more interested in $$$$$ than people.

Why? If discussion on a thread is civil, which the cv thread has been, why should anything be removed? That makes no sense. Let the conversation flow freely. The fact that it's spanned over 100 pages, covering everything from science, to rights, liberty, and daily updates in between, amongst people who often disagree on things, is a huge success story.

Seriously?

Because one person is spreading misinformation that cannot be readily debunked outside of crossing the line for politics.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Seriously?

Because one person is spreading misinformation that cannot be readily debunked outside of crossing the line for politics.

So report it, and if we agree it's an issue it will be removed.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Seriously?

Because one person is spreading misinformation that cannot be readily debunked outside of crossing the line for politics.

The concept of shared responsibility doesn't exist. In certain political spheres it's entirely the fault of the people in the theater for listening and not the person shouting "fire".

 insaniak wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Seriously?

Because one person is spreading misinformation that cannot be readily debunked outside of crossing the line for politics.

So report it, and if we agree it's an issue it will be removed.

Apparently you haven't agreed it's an issue, because the few posts that I flagged are still there as far as I can see.

I'm not trying to be mean or stir the pot here, but in an age of misinformation--this is one place where you can curtail it. For the most part, I'm just avoiding that thread because it's exactly like the politics threads of yore. There's a few individuals that continually spout things that they know will get reactions but they stay just enough within the lines that nothing ever seems to get done with regards to their behaviors.

It has certainly turned very political somewhat unavoidable, but it does mean if it continues in that vein, it may have to be closed eventually...

Certainly you can disprove some false information without getting political?

 ScarletRose wrote:
In certain political spheres it's entirely the fault of the people in the theater for listening and not the person shouting "fire".

Another way of looking at this point is, there’s really not much that can be said for folks who look to the off topic section of a toy soldier discussion forum for authoritative information about important matters.

Anyone who seriously becomes “infuriated” by reading something in a thread on this site needs to simply “walk away” from that thread. I know myself, it’s easier said than done. Pushing the modalert button may make doing it a bit easier and is appreciated (but in no way guarantees we’ll see things the same way).

Point taken. I see now that it’s no good getting angry about them or complaining about them either. I won’t bother with the report button anymore, I’ll just stick with the ignore function.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Seriously?

Because one person is spreading misinformation that cannot be readily debunked outside of crossing the line for politics.

Why not? if their post is not political, your rebuke can also be so.

but if its that big a problem, just ignore it, or leave?

It might just be me, but I've never even thought about reporting a post. maybe its just my mentality, but I like to think that if I cant handle something that someone has written online without reporting them to the moderators, then I might have bigger issues.

Well I can understand why people get infuriated when they see disinformation spread even on a wargaming forum. It just makes them remember how pandemic this situation is becoming - and it is really an issue in our real lives, not just for politics. I do also understand Manchu's point of view, even if I don't share it.

That said, I believe the topic on Coronavirus exist because we can't help but feeling anxious to this exceptionnal situation. Either we worry about our health, the impact of the changes it had on our life or even political beliefs, in the end it's all linked. Some use it to let the steam off, others genuinely want to talk about it with users on the forum and see how they feel as well.

There is a lot of frustration around, it can't be denied. We can't even buy our plastic model / paint drug as usual as before to ease it. That's not an excuse to be rude with other people, that's for sure, but I do appreciate the moderators still doing their best not to make it worst by being too harsh in answer. I don't believe it would make the situation better to go on a ban spree...just fuel the frustration even more.

Sometimes I think its important that people realise that moderators are not peer reviewers for a forum.

They are not experts in multiple fields able to swoop in and unanimously peer review and moderate specific content to remove lies/mistruthes and clarify statements. In fact if mods started doing that not only would it really increase their workload, but it would likely REALLY annoy more people.

It's easy to spot someone else saying something wrong and wish it were corrected; however we all make mistakes ourselves.


In addition when mods are not experts in fields of study it also means that they could make mistaken calls as well. The Corona virus situation highlights this greatly; early statments even be experts in the field, have later proven incorrect or simplified etc...



In the end mods aren't there to police the content in that way unless someone is obviously in the extreme (which would likely nudge closer to trolling than anything else). Otherwise if you see someone saying something wrong then you can simply post to correct them in a police fashion - showing evidence etc... to prove your point. Other people reading can then decide who they believe and what they believe on their own. And sure some people will continue to never get the point and will make mistakes over and over and some will argue their point forever because the logical argument isnt' part of it its more their ego arguing.