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2020/04/14 13:53:32
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Presumably they might re-FAQ the SIA / Bolter Discipline, but "technically", the more recent publication trumps the older one (FAQ in this case).
There are no SIA rules in this publication. The FAQ rules stand. They explicitly modify the underlying SIA ability, which was not addressed in this flaming dumpster fire.
I think he means that the FAQ will be FAQ'd to re-allow SIA with bolter discipline.
2020/04/14 13:56:17
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Presumably they might re-FAQ the SIA / Bolter Discipline, but "technically", the more recent publication trumps the older one (FAQ in this case).
There are no SIA rules in this publication. The FAQ rules stand. They explicitly modify the underlying SIA ability, which was not addressed in this flaming dumpster fire.
I think he means that the FAQ will be FAQ'd to re-allow SIA with bolter discipline.
No. I don't think that. I just assumed (without checking) it was a FAQ to bolter discipline, and thus the more recent version in the White Dwarf would overwrite the FAQ.
2020/04/14 13:57:03
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I still refuse to use Eliminators and Suppressors until I can use them as bigger than groups of 3.
Yeah, why the heck did they do this? I converted up a unit of 6 Suppressors before the models or rules were released because I liked the concept of jump pack autocannons. No other infantry unit in the game is limited to what comes in the box for unit size. Having a unit cap of 6 would hardly be broken. Although I don't want any more, releasing a multipart plastic kit would also be nice.
A unit cap of 6 would be pretty nuts, ngl. That's 18 dirt cheap, endlessly buffable, ignore LoS, multiple damage sniper rifles.
That 1 change alone would likely eliminate support characters from the metagame.
Eliminators are at 3 because they NEED to be at 3.
Mr Morden wrote: Would it not have been better to have the Deathwatch as a Marine supplement.
no, there are way too many dataslates that DW don't use to make that closely viable.
This could easily be solved by simply providing a list of prohibited units at the beginning of the datatsheet-section. The same way as it is already done ith BT right now
do you have any clue how long that list would be?
Not long enough cry about.
Counting forgeworld it would be. That like 85 units.
Yeah, I don't get how some people think larger squads of Eliminators would be good for the game. They're already amazing! I suppose if you split their datasheet so that the Las-Fusil version could have up to 6 that would be okay, but definitely not the sniper rifles!
(not a specific reply to the quoted post):
DW players are upset because every other space marine based faction seems to be getting something new on top of doctrines and codex strats, while DW are getting just the bare minimun doctrines and codex strats. What they really needed was a few different unit options (e.g. Eliminators) and some updates to their few specific units like the Watchmaster and Corvus Blackstar. Watchmaster is still good if unchanged, but he's not as good as a chapter master (he only rerolls failed hits).
Artemis is. . . not exactly useful.
Corvus Blackstar is a friggin dumpster fire.
Spoiler:
Minimum cost of 195 for 2x lascannon shots, the 2xd6 blackstar launcher (basically an assault cannon but +1 to hit vs flyers or a bolter that gets +1 to hit targets in cover), and the cluster bombs that will maybe do 1-2 mortal wounds over the course of the game before it's shot down. Oh, and no power of the machine spirit, so you're hitting on 4s. Or pay 5 points to reroll 1s vs non-flyers.
Or, you can get a relic contemptor dread with 4x lascannon shots that hits on 2s for 190 points. . . .
"But it's a transport!" you say. Yeah, sure, but why the heck would you risk losing super expensive veterans when this thing gets blown up when you can just deep strike them???? This thing is just so terrible it's hard to describe, and it's only amplified by the fact that DW troops are crazy expensive. It desperately--at minimum--needs PotMS if is to remain as expensive as it is. Otherwise it needs a severe points cut, or a stat buff. Or some kind of special rule like the Impulsor assault rule.
2020/04/14 14:30:00
Subject: Re:Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
So basically we get a serious half-assed update that requires almost complete FAQ out of the gate!! lolz for days.
Bolter Discipline...yay or nay with SIA.
Combat Doctrines....not the new version where you don't get to choose when to rotate
Adaptive Strategy strat that has been eliminated from all other marine chapters.
bullyboy wrote: So basically we get a serious half-assed update that requires almost complete FAQ out of the gate!! lolz for days.
Bolter Discipline...yay or nay with SIA.
Combat Doctrines....not the new version where you don't get to choose when to rotate
Adaptive Strategy strat that has been eliminated from all other marine chapters.
At least we got the strat to give another hero a Warlord Trait (not that we have many that are any good, lol)
Are you kidding?
This is an absolute abundance of riches compared to the PA offerings for factions like Drukhari, Ynnari, etc..
2 pages of strats alone is insane (again Drukhari got zero ... zip ... nada). Sure, they aren't the most novel and unique, but it's infinitely more than ... no strats at all
2020/04/14 14:34:12
Subject: Re:Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
This is an absolute abundance of riches compared to the PA offerings for factions like Drukhari, Ynnari, etc..
2 pages of strats alone is insane (again Drukhari got zero ... zip ... nada). Sure, they aren't the most novel and unique, but it's infinitely more than ... no strats at all
Calling this an abundance of riches is abject lunacy.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/04/15 12:19:09
2020/04/14 14:37:29
Subject: Re:Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Calling this an abundance of riches is abject lunacy.
Calling it this an abundance of riches compared to the Drukhari or Ynnari treatment in PA is correct though, even understating it. It's a comparative statement, not an absolute one.
2020/04/14 14:38:25
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2020/04/14 14:47:38
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Galas wrote:This rules update makes the worst crime that a game can commit: It is uterly boring. Really? 0 new things? I hope theres more things because if not...
There wont be, and WarCom will make it out like Deathwatch are the luckiest players alive for getting attention.
Sunny Side Up wrote:
Calling it this an abundance of riches compared to the Drukhari or Ynnari treatment in PA is correct though, even understating it. It's a comparative statement, not an absolute one.
And entirely irrelevant. Go bitch in the Drukhari thread.
2020/04/14 14:49:32
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
And entirely irrelevant. Go bitch in the Drukhari thread.
Doesn't matter where I go.
Deathwatch getting far more (quantity) and far better (quality) rules than most factions in PA still makes them a winner overall. No way getting around the obvious.
2020/04/14 14:51:57
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Deathwatch getting far more (quantity) and far better (quality) rules than most factions in PA still makes them a winner overall. No way getting around the obvious.
Calling Deathwatch a winner is a complete and total lie. This isnt a PA update. It's a substandard Summer Update bolted on after the fact out of broken parts.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/14 14:54:47
2020/04/14 15:04:59
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
And entirely irrelevant. Go bitch in the Drukhari thread.
Doesn't matter where I go.
Deathwatch getting far more (quantity) and far better (quality) rules than most factions in PA still makes them a winner overall. No way getting around the obvious.
This is absolutely false.
DA, BA and SW all got what DW received......but they also got, access to all new units, new strats, new relics, new WTs, and a super doctrine. It's not even close....at all. Stop being disingenuous.
The Ynnari update was fine, a complete new set of rules (if you didn't have the WD prior). Drukhari update was awful, not for what it didn't get, but for what it did get being far worse than what was in the codex so I do sympathize with Drukhari players. The Deathwatch update comes in at second place though, for sheer lack of effort.
2020/04/14 16:18:10
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
DA, BA and SW all got what DW received......but they also got, access to all new units, new strats, new relics, new WTs, and a super doctrine. It's not even close....at all. Stop being disingenuous.
No, its not. DW already has better rules (SIA) than everything DA, BA, SW got from PA. Now they get combat doctrines and additional SM stratagems.
2020/04/14 16:24:08
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
DA, BA and SW all got what DW received......but they also got, access to all new units, new strats, new relics, new WTs, and a super doctrine. It's not even close....at all. Stop being disingenuous.
No, its not. DW already has better rules (SIA) than everything DA, BA, SW got from PA. Now they get combat doctrines and additional SM stratagems.
Lol, you have to be kidding. All of the chapters basically get their own version of SIA now, plus extras. Vanguard units (Impulsor and Elims especially), all new strats and WTs, super doc, own litany, not even close.
DW will be a soup astartes list, that's it, it won;t operate on it's own well at all.
2020/04/14 16:35:14
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Lol, you have to be kidding. All of the chapters basically get their own version of SIA now, plus extras. Vanguard units (Impulsor and Elims especially), all new strats and WTs, super doc, own litany, not even close.
DW will be a soup astartes list, that's it, it won;t operate on it's own well at all.
Oh, really ? DW intercessors with auto bolt rifles using hellfire rounds, 30 shots at 24" that wound any non vehicle, non titanic unit, on 2s, regardless of toughness. When using the furor mission tactics, troop choices can re-roll 1s to wound. And when you are in half range, or less, you can use boltstorm to auto hit with 30 shots. You cant use boltstorm yet, but you can once WD 453 is out, it was previewed on WC. In T2, auto bolt rifles get AP-1, when the tactical doctrine is active, DW also gets this in WD 453.
Which other SM faction can do something similar with their troops ?
2020/04/14 16:36:55
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Perhaps the WD codex stuff should be split from this thread - given that it's not really got anything to do with Pariah book and we'll be receiving bits of information for the actual book this week?
2020/04/14 17:40:23
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Lol, you have to be kidding. All of the chapters basically get their own version of SIA now, plus extras. Vanguard units (Impulsor and Elims especially), all new strats and WTs, super doc, own litany, not even close.
DW will be a soup astartes list, that's it, it won;t operate on it's own well at all.
Oh, really ? DW intercessors with auto bolt rifles using hellfire rounds, 30 shots at 24" that wound any non vehicle, non titanic unit, on 2s, regardless of toughness. When using the furor mission tactics, troop choices can re-roll 1s to wound. And when you are in half range, or less, you can use boltstorm to auto hit with 30 shots. You cant use boltstorm yet, but you can once WD 453 is out, it was previewed on WC. In T2, auto bolt rifles get AP-1, when the tactical doctrine is active, DW also gets this in WD 453.
Which other SM faction can do something similar with their troops ?
Well seeing as the generic Intercessors just reroll 1s to wound vs everything with the Lt. nearby, and they get better rules and Strats, how much more are you going to say "butbutbutbut 2+ to wound!!!"
Spoiler Alert: 2+ to wound only gets you so far when you have access to nothing else. It wasn't helping much when they first came out, and it's still not helping now.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/04/14 17:41:23
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Tastyfish wrote: Perhaps the WD codex stuff should be split from this thread - given that it's not really got anything to do with Pariah book and we'll be receiving bits of information for the actual book this week?
Well, talk on Deathwatch will soon fade away, so there is still the news/rumour aspect of harlequins so no reason to remove it.
2020/04/14 17:43:34
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Calling this an abundance of riches is abject lunacy.
Calling it this an abundance of riches compared to the Drukhari or Ynnari treatment in PA is correct though
No, it's utterly wrong at best or a complete lie at worst. Not only dark eldar got a character and a unit, which is more than anyone but eldar got in PA so far, they were already tier 1 faction with 3x more rules than Deathwatch. Now they will only have 2.5x more rules and the power gap between the two will lessen from ginormous to simply gigantic. So, thanks for blatant dishonesty.
The fact you have the gall to compare WD faction with all of three units to codex army to dreg up suitable comparison and think it's somehow OK for the latter to get update comparable in scope to the former just shows you had no argument, just bait.
Lol, you have to be kidding. All of the chapters basically get their own version of SIA now, plus extras. Vanguard units (Impulsor and Elims especially), all new strats and WTs, super doc, own litany, not even close.
DW will be a soup astartes list, that's it, it won;t operate on it's own well at all.
Oh, really ? DW intercessors with auto bolt rifles using hellfire rounds, 30 shots at 24" that wound any non vehicle, non titanic unit, on 2s, regardless of toughness. When using the furor mission tactics, troop choices can re-roll 1s to wound. And when you are in half range, or less, you can use boltstorm to auto hit with 30 shots. You cant use boltstorm yet, but you can once WD 453 is out, it was previewed on WC. In T2, auto bolt rifles get AP-1, when the tactical doctrine is active, DW also gets this in WD 453.
Which other SM faction can do something similar with their troops ?
Meanwhile other SM will laugh as they have longer range with half of chapter trait, have reroll 1s on everything thanks to cheap lieutenants and can't be foiled by enemies using another unit than you anticipated, have access to vastly larger range of weapons, have better and more stratagems on top of chapter litanies, psychic powers, and superdoctrines to buff even more, and you still haven't even touched the other half of the chapter or relics for more buffs that make DW look like IG troops in comparison.
I also like how you tout boltstorm as something 'good' when SM laugh at this too, because unlike DW they can go rapidfire 2 on bolt rifles hitting on 2s rerolling 1s. From larger range and with more AP, again. The fact DW need to use boltstorm because their gimped arsenal doesn't synergize well with better stratagems is drawback, not a positive, which shows how wrong the above is to begin with.
So, close, but no cigar. Any other myths you need debunked?
2020/04/14 17:47:01
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
It doesn't matter what they do for the Harlequins, it cannot be worse than for Deathwatch (I know, incoming GW hold my beer quotes). There is no source material to copy/paste from, it literally has to be something new.
Or it could be just "add <masque> to Kyganil, you're welcome!"
I honestly expect nothing more than just custom masques, no new WTs, relics or strats.
2020/04/14 20:24:26
Subject: Re:Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
bullyboy wrote: Combat Doctrines....not the new version where you don't get to choose when to rotate
How do you get to this conclusion?
It literally says so in the printed rules package.
Yeah, but it also says so in SM Codex 2.0 since it is the same text (except for the "stacks with SIA"-sentence) and that text got FAQed a few weeks ago.
