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Ok so I havent played since 6th. But a couple months ago i decided to pick orks up because they looked fun and the bikers appealed to me. So I got the new codex and cant find the point value of putting a big mek or warboss on a bike. And I see people adding them into thier armies. Does anyone have a page number in the new codex I can get these point values from? Or is it free? Any help would be great.

This is going to be kinda complicated.

Those entries were originally in the index list (the thing that existed before the codex). After the codex came out, you could still take index choices, but they didn't get the benefit of codex rules. In December 2019, GW came out with the "Legends" list, that took most of the index choices and moved them to a special set of rules that won't get updated and isn't intended for competitive play.

The Big Mek on warbike is now Legends, and costs 81 points. You can download the Legends datasheets for free from GW's website.

The Warboss on warbike, very strangely, was not moved to legends. Instead, it is now listed in the Forge World section of Chapter Approved 2019. This probably has something to do with the fact that the model is a Forge World model.

You can find a full explanation of the weirdness here:

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2019/12/warhammer-40k-the-curious-case-of-the-warboss-on-warbike.html

But the bottom line is you can't take a Big Mek on a bike any more in competitive formats, but you can take the Warboss on a bike.

Then what datasheet do we use for the warboss on warbike? Still the one in the index?

ThePauliPrinciple wrote:
Then what datasheet do we use for the warboss on warbike? Still the one in the index?

Excelent question and answer is: However you/tournament house rules. Same issue was with big mek w/KFF. We had cost, we didnt' have datasheet. Psychic awakening 6 gave that datasheet but don't think it had warboss on bike so...whatever you house rule. Index itself is gone and buried officially. So it's now up for house ruling. Using the index datasheet is decent house rules so likely you will be fine with that though.

Wow well I'll still go look up as much as I can find. Because that FW model is awesome. But worste comes to worste I'll just run the killa wartrike instead. Because that thing is still cool looking and has some use from what I've read. Thank you for all the info.

yukishiro1 wrote:
The Warboss on warbike, very strangely, was not moved to legends. Instead, it is now listed in the Forge World section of Chapter Approved 2019. This probably has something to do with the fact that the model is a Forge World model.

Confusing things even further, the model currently listed on Forge World's site as "Warboss on Warbike" went from being just that, to a named character "Zhadsnark Da Ripper", now back to "Warboss on Warbike". Zhadsnark has rules included in the 8th edition FW Xenos Index, and is also listed in the Forge World section of CA2019. So we have a point cost listing for a model that is sold by FW but FW doesn't have rules for, and a point cost listing for the exact same model still being sold by FW under a different name, but FW doesn't have rules for it.

Omfgorzzz wrote:
Wow well I'll still go look up as much as I can find. Because that FW model is awesome. But worste comes to worste I'll just run the killa wartrike instead. Because that thing is still cool looking and has some use from what I've read. Thank you for all the info.

por que no los dos? Killa Klawboss on bike is still a staple, and you can use Da Biggest Boss on them to make them even meaner, which you can't use on the wartrike because it doesn't have the WARBOSS keyword. I generally run both, and use the Klawboss as my kind of suicide piece where you can charge him into combat with something wayyyyyyy more expensive than him like say a knight and he'll reliably tear it up using Orks is Never Beaten when he dies, and the wartrike I make my actual warlord with might makes right trait to get him S8 and +1A, and I send him more after things I know he can bully.

I would anticipate with the upcoming FW rules update, the warboss on warbike will be in the FW orks section.

hopefully he'll still have the Warboss Keyword so Biggest Boss will keep working on him, but knowing GW they will change it to SpeedBoss like the Defftrike, thereby removing Biggest boss from being played on him. Because Orks can't have a Slam-Captain equivalent. They're filthy Xenos.

Holy crap this situation is convoluted.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Holy crap this situation is convoluted.

Yeah, there doesn't really exist a faction that has received more convoluted GW responses to their no model/no rules situations. This has because GW has pulled some wild'n'crazy moves with the ork model range for no real reason.

1) Big Mek with KFF, Big Mek with Choppa+KMB, Painboy with Killsaw and Grot Orderly, and IIRC Mad Doc Grotsnik were weirdly discontinued instead of being moved to finecast despite having sculpts in line with other metal ork HQs. A new painboy was released, as was a new Big Mek with SAG, and I think Grotsnik later returned with the same sculpt. These options disappeared after the index era, and the big mek and Killsaw option on the painboy came back. I believe the grot orderly is still in as of the codex, despite not existing on the plastic model?

2) nob bikers and warboss on bike are FW kits, despite long being codex options. nob bikers stayed in the codex because technically you get 1 nob bike with each ork biker kit.They did not extend this same courtesy to Little Meks, which long were available in the Loota/Burna kits with Big Shoota/Rokkit Launcha and KMB options. Now, little Meks are only available with the KMP/Choppa that you get in the individual plastic clampack kit, and the loota/burna kit models have been relegated to being "Spanners".

3) The new Flash Gits originally came out with a special set of finecast grots, and since their release each flash git has been able to take 1 ammo runt. However, their actual plastic kit comes with 0. In the index they could take 1 grot per 1 git, now bizarrely they can take 1 grot per 5 gits, despite their kit containing 0.

All this confusion stems from Orks since their inception being the army that most encompassed Old GW's conversion and creativity friendly attitude. GW is trying to cram them face-first into their new "only exactly what you can build from the kit, CREATIVITY IST VERBOTEN" corporate style, and is completely mangling the way the army's rules work in the process.

which trying to cram them face-first into their new mentality would be fine if they actually updated the lines at once instead of this weird half-removal they did. Which only compounded the issue by a factor of 10 because majority of these were our HQs or super commonly used options suddenly ripped from us with no compensation either in other units costs changing now that they lack the support they once relied on or new units to fill the void.
Guarantee the only reason the KFF Mek returned, even if it was a really fugly way, was because the massive outrage the ork community screamed at GW for not including it in the codex was deafening lol.
Some of the models that are gone entirely are just as bad in the finecast department as ones that remained. The weirdboy is still around....dafuq is that ugly, hole-riddled mess around for but the KFF mek isnt?

orks still need like 3-4 more releases of older models (both gone entirely and relegated to legends for some reason). I dont get why they did this where they removed all these options just for the sake of removing them, there isnt even a new shiny to entice us with to claim it was just a marketing ploy "well this unit lost that, but now you get these!" sort of thing.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
which trying to cram them face-first into their new mentality would be fine if they actually updated the lines at once instead of this weird half-removal they did. Which only compounded the issue by a factor of 10 because majority of these were our HQs or super commonly used options suddenly ripped from us with no compensation either in other units costs changing now that they lack the support they once relied on or new units to fill the void.
Guarantee the only reason the KFF Mek returned, even if it was a really fugly way, was because the massive outrage the ork community screamed at GW for not including it in the codex was deafening lol.
Some of the models that are gone entirely are just as bad in the finecast department as ones that remained. The weirdboy is still around....dafuq is that ugly, hole-riddled mess around for but the KFF mek isnt?

orks still need like 3-4 more releases of older models (both gone entirely and relegated to legends for some reason). I dont get why they did this where they removed all these options just for the sake of removing them, there isnt even a new shiny to entice us with to claim it was just a marketing ploy "well this unit lost that, but now you get these!" sort of thing.

Well clearly they need to make space for the dire demand for space marine lieutenants...

Sometimes GW priority for updating models is always baffling to me.

Yeah, i dont get their hardon with that either.

I saw their "top 20" post and my immediate thought was "even if you are grasping at straws for it the fact that you can make such an article proves you need to back the f off of that faction for awhile"
Marines have more hq's than some armies have codex entries....

Be careful what you wish for. Space Marine players complained about not having model updates...and then GW made like 75% of their army competitively obsolete by releasing primaris models that were deliberately tuned to sell, while largely ignoring the existing line. So existing Space Marine players ended up having to basically buy and paint whole new armies.

Now that particular thing obviously won't happen with Orkz. We're not going to see Big Orkz. But I would never underestimate the ability of GW to "fix" things in a way that breaks them more than they were before.

I mean, look at the PA Big Mek with KFF entry. They somehow managed to take the BM KFF fiasco and make it even more ridiculous by releasing a downright embarrassing piece of junk as the data sheet that raises far more questions than it answers.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah, i dont get their hardon with that either.

I saw their "top 20" post and my immediate thought was "even if you are grasping at straws for it the fact that you can make such an article proves you need to back the f off of that faction for awhile"
Marines have more hq's than some armies have codex entries....

They most certainly have far more HQ sculpts than most armies have unit entries. Just since primaris, there's been...let's see...

-6 chapter-specific sculpts with the new supplements
-4-5 event exclusive sculpts
-5 in clampacks with the proper primaris wave
-3 in shadowspear
-3 in dark imperium

That certainly blows the number of codex entries in custodes, knights of both types, sisters, harlequins, GSC, Thousand Sons, DG, DW, etc out of the water.

The whole mess with squatting some units, slapping others in legends, others in index has made me afraid to buy ANY 40k unit which is not a plastic kit because I do not know if I will still be able to use it next year.

If it's in a codex, you're safe until the next edition comes out. The unit might change a bit in terms of how competitive it is, but you'll still be able to use the model.

If it isn't in a codex (or a PA supplement), it's probably a pretty safe bet they'll get around to messing it up if they haven't already.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The whole mess with squatting some units, slapping others in legends, others in index has made me afraid to buy ANY 40k unit which is not a plastic kit because I do not know if I will still be able to use it next year.

Hahaha about that, in late 7th I bought some of the brand spanking new Deathwatch stuff, and guess what direction those are going...