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I regret not being able to learn Irish. I tried, in school, but it just wouldn't take. I could blame them but they did manage to teach me Spanish, to a degree, so it must have been me.

I've always wanted to learn Italian, German and Japanese. If I was isolating like everyone else maybe I could have tried.

Actually we were planning to try and get to Japan this year. James May's show really pushed the idea...and then along came you know what.

Grew up speaking English and Dutch, with a smattering of Hungarian.

Owing to not having anyone else to speak Hungarian with, it fell by the wayside (didn't meet another person who spoke it until my 30s, and even then, he spoke it as a very formal version (compared to the colloquially spoken form he was exposed to when he actually visited the country 6-7 years ago).

Dutch isn't as harsh sounding as German, the extra phlegm softens it a tad.

Think of it as "German with less letters". Germans use "ch" for the "hhhhkkkkk" sound, Dutch just uses "k" and adds phlegm.

I grew up with Russian and Dutch. Russian is a beautiful and great language, although I don't speak it very often nowadays. Dutch sounds decidedly less musical and poetic, but I like it nonetheless. I have always associated it with honesty and practicality. And the history of the language is very interesting too, although not many people are aware of it.

The only language I have really mastered aside from those two is English. I have made attempts at learning Chinese, but I gave up because it drove me insane (and quite frankly I did not have the time to properly study it). I have also learnt German and French, but given that I virtually never get to speak those languages I have forgotten most of it. I would have trouble holding a conversation, but my passive knowledge is still good enough to read written texts in those languages. For German I can also still understand the spoken language pretty well because it is so similar to Dutch. French is more difficult because French speakers just talk way too fast and use too many words to say something.

English was a language I absolutely loved to learn. It has just so many different words for the same things. All languages have lots of different ways to say things, but I really think there is no language with as many synonyms as English. Makes writing poetry a lot of fun.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
I grew up with Russian and Dutch. Russian is a beautiful and great language, although I don't speak it very often nowadays. Dutch sounds decidedly less musical and poetic, but I like it nonetheless. I have always associated it with honesty and practicality. And the history of the language is very interesting too, although not many people are aware of it.

The only language I have really mastered aside from those two is English. I have made attempts at learning Chinese, but I gave up because it drove me insane (and quite frankly I did not have the time to properly study it). I have also learnt German and French, but given that I virtually never get to speak those languages I have forgotten most of it. I would have trouble holding a conversation, but my passive knowledge is still good enough to read written texts in those languages. For German I can also still understand the spoken language pretty well because it is so similar to Dutch. French is more difficult because French speakers just talk way too fast and use too many words to say something.

English was a language I absolutely loved to learn. It has just so many different words for the same things. All languages have lots of different ways to say things, but I really think there is no language with as many synonyms as English. Makes writing poetry a lot of fun.

I dunno. Dutch has a fair few synonyms as well. Actually, scratch that. Dutch has more the opposite, with similar sounding or the same word having different meanings depending on context and sentence structure. Drives my wife absolutely crazy.
What makes it such an (apparently) difficult language to learn is twofold though, as I understood from watching my wife trying to learn it:
1) Flexible grammar meaning you can say the same thing in a dozen completely different ways.
2) As mentioned above - the same word can mean something completely different depending on just the subject of tbe conversation, but the phrase and its place in the sentence as well. Plus some random words like "er" that we throw in at random to make sentences work.

 Ouze wrote:


As a Puerto Rican who was born and grew up in NYC, I'd like to remind you that the US has no official language, and that Puerto Ricans are American citizens.

If you lived in the areas of Texas or California, where the majority of the population speaks spanish rather than english, would you be making the argument that yeah, while it's important to keep the culture alive for english speakers, really you should try to assimilate and speak spanish? Somehow I doubt it, and you should ask why.

I ignored the troll the first time but I just have to add we've been speaking Spanish in America longer than English.

St. Augustine, Florida (1565)
Jamestown, Virginia (1607)

So on behalf of the Hispanic side of my family I have to note I always thought Americans shouldn't even think of Spanish as a foreign language. I mean something like 1/3 of our country was taken from Mexico and Spain.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
I grew up with Russian and Dutch. Russian is a beautiful and great language

I've come to learn that 'beautiful language' usually means the grammar will make you want to spoon your eyes out. Usually requiring that adjectives and particles concur with the nouns gender, number, case and whatever other nonsense has been thrown in there

Someone once made the point that while English has a nightmarish vocabulary, with totally unrelated words drawn from completely different languages that mean the same thing or, even worse, ALMOST the same thing - horse, mare, stallion, charger, pony, filly, yearling, bronco... I'm sure there's more.

But English with its origins as a pigin language so the Anglo Saxons could talk to the Normans has a dead simple grammar at it's core. Beside despising with gendered nouns (and good riddance) and noun-adjective correspondence most tenses are accomplished by modifying words rather than rejiggering the verb itself. Except every verb is an irregular nightmare. So there's that...

Took 2 years each of French and Spanish in high school. I've forgotten almost all of my French, but I can almost have a conversation in Spanish (a short conversation, at least). At some point I should get back into both languages, as it could be useful to speak something other than English.

I'd also love to learn to speak Klingon. I picked up a guide to the language a few years back, but never really sat down and tried to learn it. Granted, it's a fictional language, so it's probably hard to become properly fluent, but it would still be a cool way to impress one's nerd friends.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

English was a language I absolutely loved to learn. It has just so many different words for the same things. All languages have lots of different ways to say things, but I really think there is no language with as many synonyms as English. Makes writing poetry a lot of fun.

Japanese have quite a few. Though this more for politeness/formality. Different enviroment, different word used

So I know much-atrophied high school French (but still enough that I could make myself understood for simple conversations) and I also learned a bit of German (enough to be polite and order a beer!)

I’ve always been tempted to learn Welsh, as a chunk of my family are originally from there. It wouldn’t really have a practical purpose, but it sounds cool. And it was Tolkien’s inspiration for Sindarin, so there’s that too!

Native English, functional Hebrew and Turkish (in both cases reading much better than I speak), rudimentary Arabic and Kurdish. I can order in a bar in a few others but I'm stumped if I get asked anything back! I have good classical Hebrew, too, and my Latin is ok. I wouldn't describe myself as fluent in anything other than English, through.

All of the Asian ones have been essential for research and fieldwork (and now because my girlfriend and son are native Turkish speakers), not just useful. Turkish has been hardest. It loves to stack suffixes like nobody's business and whilst that's fine to deal with in print, it takes quite a lot of repeats to follow in conversation and lots of effort to remember how to arrange them in a sentence on the hoof.

Edit: actually, the hardest thing applied to all of them and is rooted in how poor language teaching is in the UK. We barely ever bother with grammatical terminology, so it's immediately difficult when someone is teaching you about second person infinitives or past-participles when you've learned to use those things correctly via osmosis and don't know how to label any of them.

tneva82 wrote:


Japanese have quite a few. Though this more for politeness/formality. Different enviroment, different word used

Since the war Japan has also added considerable vocabulary from English, which often overlaps but has subtle differences from existing words.

So...

試験 (Shiken) is formal test, like a college entrance exam or final exam in a class
Tesuto-is like a monthly test or a practice exam
Shorto Tesuto-is a quiz
Kuizu-is a game show

Which is awesome for English speakers (once you learn the system of changing the English sounds to Japanese Katakana and the subtle differences between a Shiken and Tesuto) but must be an absolute nightmare for non-English speakers since the logical compound word structure of Japanese words taken from Chinese (Shiken is Trial+examination) is broken up with random collections of sounds that have nothing to do with the rest of the language.

Damn Americans.

I’ve found myself watching the NHK world service, and it’s really getting me wanting to learn Japanese again. My brother has had some success with Babel’s French course, but is there a better way?

Move there for 3 years?

3 years seems awfully long to learn a language, at least one that uses the same alfabet. A year should be more than sufficient to become proficient. I'll admit becoming fluent takes longer.

Bran Dawri wrote:
3 years seems awfully long to learn a language, at least one that uses the same alfabet. A year should be more than sufficient to become proficient. I'll admit becoming fluent takes longer.

5 years for fluency, though closer languages are obviously easier. And that assumes really living with it, not in an expat bubble.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Since the war Japan has also added considerable vocabulary from English, which often overlaps but has subtle differences from existing words.

Then there's the english origin words that sound familiar but are used in TOTALLY different style Tension comes to mind

And in terms of same sounding words with different meanings...As japan has limited sound combos it has lots. Kaeru can mean go home, frog or change something(plus other meanings). And there's the infamous phrase kisha ha kisha de kisha ni kisha suru. Each kisha means different thing and phrase makes 100% sense. Of course in practice nobody ever says that Even if somebody says that phrase they use different words ;-)

tneva82 wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Since the war Japan has also added considerable vocabulary from English, which often overlaps but has subtle differences from existing words.

Then there's the english origin words that sound familiar but are used in TOTALLY different style Tension comes to mind

And in terms of same sounding words with different meanings...As japan has limited sound combos it has lots. Kaeru can mean go home, frog or change something(plus other meanings). And there's the infamous phrase kisha ha kisha de kisha ni kisha suru. Each kisha means different thing and phrase makes 100% sense. Of course in practice nobody ever says that Even if somebody says that phrase they use different words ;-)

And then there's "mother is scolding the horse" in Chinese.

Māmā mà mǎ

Which no one would say but there you go.

I don’t exactly have the resources to up sticks and move to japan for 3 years. Babel or Rosetta Stone will have to do for now.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
I don’t exactly have the resources to up sticks and move to japan for 3 years. Babel or Rosetta Stone will have to do for now.

You could also marry a Japanese woman and have 2 kids, that's also helped me.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Since the war Japan has also added considerable vocabulary from English, which often overlaps but has subtle differences from existing words.

Then there's the english origin words that sound familiar but are used in TOTALLY different style Tension comes to mind

And in terms of same sounding words with different meanings...As japan has limited sound combos it has lots. Kaeru can mean go home, frog or change something(plus other meanings). And there's the infamous phrase kisha ha kisha de kisha ni kisha suru. Each kisha means different thing and phrase makes 100% sense. Of course in practice nobody ever says that Even if somebody says that phrase they use different words ;-)

And then there's "mother is scolding the horse" in Chinese.

Māmā mà mǎ

Which no one would say but there you go.

Okay i give up that wins on category of silly constructed phrases.

Finland has some over 100 letter word that's technically grammatically correct word but not really used.

kumarreksituteskenteleentuvaisehkollaismaisekkuudellisenneskenteluttelemattomammuuksissansakaankopahan

Don't ask for translation. I'm struggling to figure it out as well

lentokonesuihkuturbiinimoottoriapumekaanikkoaliupseerioppilas

This 61 letter one at least is bit more sensible. Air plane's turbine engine's junior mechanic nco student...

Finnish is nutty language. Talking with japanese about differences i note japanese grammar is so much easier. Finnish grammar was designed by somebody under drugs it seems

Grammar? You want crazy grammar?

The gender and plurality of the number must correspond to the gender of the noun it is modifying UNLESS the number is between one and ten in which case the gender should be the opposite of the number OR the number is greater than ten in which case the noun should be singular.

I think Arabic is out to get me.

Okay that is pretty crazy grammar

I’ll ask somewhere else for advice on what tools to use. But actually going to Japan and getting involved there would be a great help. James May’s programme really rekindled my desire to see the place, talk the lingo and maybe even write the writing.

English native speaker, Mandarin Chinese was getting okay until I moved back home to Australia. It was my Major at Uni, but I still sucked at the end of the degree. Living in Taiwan for a year, and China for 3 helped but most of the friends I made spoke English better than my Chinese, so it was just easier to use English. I've been home about 2 1/2 years now and barely speak any Chinese.

Immersion is the best way, along with need. When you must use that language to communicate with people you work it out, even if that means using a dictionary or your phone. A couple of drinks and hot girls who don't speak English also works well.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Bran Dawri wrote:
3 years seems awfully long to learn a language, at least one that uses the same alfabet. A year should be more than sufficient to become proficient. I'll admit becoming fluent takes longer.

5 years for fluency, though closer languages are obviously easier. And that assumes really living with it, not in an expat bubble.

Really? Didn't take me that long to learn Portuguese. Took me about 6 months to become proficient enough to hold a conversation, another two+ years to become fluent. Though I suppose the more languages you speak the easier it becomes, at least that's how it was for me.
And having my (now) wife not speak a word of English and having to learn really fast when she became pregnant was one hell of a motivator.

I don't have any brothers so the word for brother/brothers just kind of slipped my mind after the early lessons.

It came up today and it turns out the word for brothers...

Is feminine!

Because of course it is n00b!



Now I don't mind complex grammar, even a nightmare sentence like "Many new laws have been passed since the new government was put in power but they are being reexamined" which has 3 different passive tenses is fine since it communicates information and the choice of the passive is, itself, telling.

Japan's host of words for "you", depending your relative statuses communicates something about the social relationship you have with that person and the setting you're currently in. Confusing till you learn it but at least it contains information.

But with "My three (masculine number since it's opposite when less then 3) big (feminine adjective) brothers (feminine noun) are coming (feminine verb)" the whole sentence is completely misleading if you miss the word brothers since all the other words in the sentence point to a bunch of women coming.

Just. Bad. Design.

That's grammar for grammar's sake to show off how complex your language is.

It irks me on such a deep level.

Well it wasn't likely designed that way to show off. Just evolved by accident. Lots of things in language evolve by accident and these days reasons aren't even known. There's even(possibly false) explanation why counting rabbits with same counter as birds comes from when lords were turning buddhism and banning eating of animals walking on ground. Well birds don't walk so meat hungry common people started refering rabbits as form of birds so they could still eat them (doubt anybody can say for sure is that true anymore but I find that amusing and helps remember that 羽 is valid counter for rabbits though these days small animal counter is also commonly used)

English (English), learning Russian and German with the Rosetta Stone. Maybe it's just me, but learning song lyrics in another language really helps me memorize vocabulary in the early stages, so lots of Red Army Choir, Kino, Alisa, Rammstein and, inter alia, Das Ich have helped immensely.

I took both French and Spanish at secondary school, lived in both Spain and France and was fluent in both at one point more than fifteen years ago, but I don't use them much any more so I've probably regressed to tourist level.

EDIT - Oh, right, I also know a very small amount of strictly tourist Hungarian, a relic of a trip to Budapest.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
English (English), learning Russian and German with the Rosetta Stone. Maybe it's just me, but learning song lyrics in another language really helps me memorize vocabulary in the early stages, so lots of Red Army Choir, Kino, Alisa, Rammstein and, inter alia, Das Ich have helped immensely.

Well I don't know if it's songs as such but certainly the more you expose the better so if you can find music you can bear to listen from target language that helps. I built large amount of vocabulary from japanese with songs as well.

As it is for past 9 years I have been reading, watching, listening about anything(adult entertaiment excluded. I doubt that's particularly useful source of words and I have learned elsewhere enough words on that as it is ) that's in japanese pretty much every day and write when I can(and speak when possible). From february 2011 there's literally not been single day I haven't touched japanese at all in someway.

Yeah, I guess that's it. I have music playing almost every second I'm awake so if 10% of it is Russian/Soviet, that's a lot of Russian over a week.

Did a couple semesters of German in college, on top of "immersion learning" it by living there for 3 years before uni.


As for "useful", I happened to see a single page review of an academic article written bout 5-10 years back now, about how people who have German as a second language make more in jobs with businesses that have global, and especially European dealings.