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Codex establishes that 1st Company, all Veterans, wear white Helmets. Where are the veterans from other Marine companies drawn from? Is there a full unit of Veterans from 2nd Company etc? There are plenty of pictures of 2nd company Gold UM with white Helms, but I never see what Battle Squads they are supposed to be taken from. Are they supposed to represent Command Squad members? Are they pulled from 1st Company?

And would there be a full squad of them, or could one random Marine be wearing White to signify his own personal status?

I ask mainly for Primaris Marines. Older Marines have Sternguard/Vanguard ( which I always thought were always drawn from 1st company but I could be wrong).
Intercessors have the Veteran Stratagem to upgrade standard Intercesors, but would they all be from 1st Company? It seems unlikely, (since so many 2nd Co vets are depicted).

My questions mainly come from the direction of modeling. Just very confused about where the Non 1st Co veterans are placed. Would One Marine with a white helm be out of place?

So I am assuming you are talking about Ultramarines? Often the guys with the white helmets outside of the 1st Company tend to be things like Command Squads, as they are veteran marines.

From what I have seen, they generally aren't part of the basic line squads, and tend to be in the company command elements.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So to answer your question, no, it wouldn't be out of place to have a single marine with a white helmet in your army if they are something like a Company Ancient or Company Champion at all.

With the exception of the Primaris Ancient who's an oddity, I can't think of a single depiction of non-1st Company veteran Ultramarines with white helmets.

Every depiction of the Lions of Macragge (2nd Company Command Squad), for example, across rulebooks, codexes, the colour pages of Fall of Damnos, show them with blue helmets.

The studio Veteran Intercessors have white shoulder trims indicating that they are 1st Company.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
With the exception of the Primaris Ancient who's an oddity, I can't think of a single depiction of non-1st Company veteran Ultramarines with white helmets.

E

I can, veteran sergants.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
With the exception of the Primaris Ancient who's an oddity, I can't think of a single depiction of non-1st Company veteran Ultramarines with white helmets.

E

I can, veteran sergants.

Well if we're going to play pedant, they have RED with a white stripe...

 Nightlord1987 wrote:


And would there be a full squad of them, or could one random Marine be wearing White to signify his own personal status?

I ask mainly for Primaris Marines. Older Marines have Sternguard/Vanguard ( which I always thought were always drawn from 1st company but I could be wrong).
Intercessors have the Veteran Stratagem to upgrade standard Intercesors, but would they all be from 1st Company? It seems unlikely, (since so many 2nd Co vets are depicted).

My questions mainly come from the direction of modeling. Just very confused about where the Non 1st Co veterans are placed. Would One Marine with a white helm be out of place?

Hey! You’re exactly right, one random marine can wear a white helmet because they’ve been promoted to veteran grade, even though they have the same assignment/squad. Eg it’s like going up from private to corporal, lance corporal, specialist or something. This is described as temporary and they’ll soon be transferred to somewhere like the first company, but it never says how long temporary is, it could mean five years while the original company is out on a long expedition.

It’s been described in at least one of the codexes, Insignium Astartes, and possibly Index Astartes but idk. It’s been published a few times but some people don’t know. As a note, it’s always to my knowledge been described that command squads are ad-hoc units assembled from the line squads in a company, and veterans from the normal squads might be the ones picked for that temporary duty. They’ve also been used as leaders for split up combat squads.

If someone says otherwise they don’t know what they’re talking about!

I'm actually quite interested in this too.
If anyone has precise sources or examples that would be helpful

 godardc wrote:
I'm actually quite interested in this too.
If anyone has precise sources or examples that would be helpful

I looked up a copy of Insignum Astartes (copy doesn't have page numbers):

Under Devastator Squad (also Tactical and Assault with slightly different wording. There was a lot of copy&paste in that book):
'Some of the Battle-Brothers may have fought enough battles to earn Veteran status. These Marines may continue to serve with the Squad for a short time but eventually they will be given special duties (see Command Squad) or promoted to the 1st Company. In this way the, ranks of the elite company are replenished. Veteran Battle-Brothers have white helmets...'

Under Command Squad:
'In the Battle and Reserve Companies these Marines are veterans drawn from the ranks of the Company's Tactical, Assault and Devastator Squads who have not yet been promoted to the 1st Company.'

The 2nd Company organisation shown in the 'Space Marines' section of the 5th edition rulebook (pg.133) shows the standard bearer and Command Squad sergeant with white helmets (the rest of the squad shown in other versions of this picture aren't present at all...). I'm pretty sure that the standard bearer is copied straight from Insignum Astartes.


Codex: Ultramarines (2nd ed.), pg.31 shows the 2nd Company standard bearer with blue helmet, describing him as 'a hand picked veteran'.
Codex: Space Marines (4th ed.), pg.55 shows the 2nd Company Command Squad and both models wearing helmets (standard plus regular dude) have blue helmets.
The standard bearer (seems to be 2nd Company) on the Battle of Macragge box art has a blue helmet (and a plasma gun!)
Codex: Space Marines (6th ed.) (no page numbers - digital edition) shows the same 2nd Company Command Squad models with blue helmets. The illustrations of the 2nd Company show the Lions of Macragge with blue helmets (the only white helmet shown in the entire Company is the Apothecary). The standard bearer of the 3rd Company is shown in the model showcase section, described as a 'Veteran', with a blue helmet.
Codex: Space Marines (7th ed.) shows the 3rd Company (pg.145), including the Command Squad, who have blue helmets.
Codex: Space Marines (8th ed.), pg.3 shows the 3rd Company Primaris standard with blue helmet. The illustration of the 2nd Company (pg.23) shows the Lions of Macragge (including the standard bearer) with blue helmets (again the only white helmet in the Company is the Apothecary). The 2nd Company standard bearer in the background on pg.61 appears to have the same blue helmet as everyone else around him. The artwork on pg.67 shows a Primaris Ancient with white helmet to match the model though.
Warzone: Damnos shows the Lions of Macragge with blue helmets again. The 3rd Company (?) standard bearer on the cover art appears to have a blue helmet. The usual blue helmed 2nd Company standard is the only model which shows up.
The colour section in Fall of Damnos shows the entire 2nd Company again. Here the Lions of Macragge are up to nine strong, all with blue helmets except for the Apothecary. There are no other white helmets in the Company, again.

The artwork for Warhammer 40,000: Conquest (the card game, not the magazine) shows the 2nd Compnay standard bearer with blue helmet. It also features a Marine with white helmet and yellow shoulder trims - Finally found one outside of Insignum Astartes and the Primaris Ancient!

Wow thanks !
Looks a bit of a mess then.
Hmm I guess I'll keep painting my veterans company with white helmets !

Hmm. Guess I must have seen a Command Squad painted up somewhere then. Thanks for all the info!

I've decided to save myself the grief and just make my 10th Company Captain be the only model with a White Helmet (from the old Devastors Kit).