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I'm always hearing people saying that World Eaters and Emperors Children need their own codex, but beyond new bezerkers, noise marines, and Angron and Fulgrim they never say what they want out of them. So why do people want mono-codexes for these legions? What do you hope to gain? Any specific rules or units? How would it represent them better than being in a codex with the other legions?

I am not best placed to answer this question as I don't currently have any Chaos armies, but I'm going to comment anyway

I've fancied starting a Slaanesh army for a while, though my concern is that most Emperor's Children lists I see spam Noise Marines. Sure, Noise Marines are cool, I just don't want a whole army made up of them.

I think one way to make god specific Chaos armies more viable is for GW to release a Traitor Guard codex, to essentially allow for cultists with more options. That and using the Chaos Daemons codex should give mono god lists more variety.

I'm not sure we need codices specific to Emperor's Children or World Eaters. Like I say I don't play either of these armies though so maybe I'm missing something.

Given what we saw with the Death Guard and Thousand Sons books, it'd be tricky to say what we'd get from WE and EC books.

Revised Berserkers and plastic Noise Marines to give decent basic infantry? Sure.

The Daemon Primarchs? Fair enough, though I would kinda want another Loyalist before Guilliman is dealing with 4-on-1 odds.

After that, it comes down to what sort of concepts GW want to mine from their heritage and bring forwards. For example, I'd like to see the WE book bring back the Cannon of Khorne and Doom Blaster from Epic as HS options in a dual-kit.

Unfortunately, the Slaanesh units from that period were Hellknights, IIRC, so I'd hope to see them crop up as an expansion for Chaos Knights down the line.

Death Guard took the concept of "Plague Marine", and ran with it to make a number of different units and characters - I could see the Studio doing something similar, especially if they look at the HH themes the Legions had, and see if there are any that could be brought forwards into 40k.

Maybe the EC do get an Apothecary-style character. Maybe the WE get their Terminator unit as a linebreaker.

Some units - if only vehicles and hellbrutes - will no doubt remain common to the CSM Codex, even if they possibly get some upgrades relevant to their faction, like a Sonic Predator.

I did try and build a world eaters force at the start of 8th but quickly got repainted to red corsairs since the bonus movement seemed to suit more than the +1 attack.

They've already provided roe ways to get into combat with them which is nice, but being almost entirley unable to interact in the psychic phase beyond either allies, 1 strat and 1 relic is a bit harsh. Some khorne priest who could dispel or maybe a buff for a unit being angry if targeted with a psychic power. Daemon princes need a better compensation for not casting as well.

I'd like to see some kind of emphasis on ranged combat, some sort of supporting daemon engine that lobs things at targets to soften them up and crack transports would be nice.

I'd also expect to lose a lot of units which would likely be ranged infantry such as oblits and havocs in compensation. Likewise replace basic termies with red butchers and cultists with the bloodbound nutters etc.

As a Khorne player... some more delivery options. I mean. Its cool to murder anything you touches but in general mele doesn't work unless you can reach it.

I dont mean turn 1 charges. Khorne is not specially fast. But ways to mitigate shooting agaisnt us, some resilient transports or deepstriking ones with some special rules, etc...


Also, models for red butcher terminators. I don't mind losing access to most CSM units. I'm used to that playing loyalist dark angels vs generic marines. Just give me units that are flavorfull and are of use for Khorne. Also yes, Khorne priest please.

As a World Eaters player, basically I'd be looking to get the same as Death Guard and Thousand Sons got.

New troop minis (e.g. resculpted Rubric Marines, Plague Marines) and a new troop type (Poxwalkers, Tzaangors) - so a new and awesome Berzerker sculpt, and a new lesser cultist type unit.

New elites (e.g. Scarab Terminators, Blightlord Terminators) - a close-combat oriented Terminator unit with lots of Khorne iconography would be cool.

A transport that would assist with the 'getting in to melee range' problem - even the return of some sort of Assault Vehicle rule for Land Raiders would be very welcome.

Oh, and Angron obviously.

Resculpts of the iconic units and characters are the main thing. Berzerkers look terrible next to new chaos marines, plague marines, and rubrics. I would like to see sonic weaponry given to vehicles, maybe give EC a skimmer operating by sound waves. Khorne needs what has already been mentioned. I would also like to see an update to the rest of the traitor legion troops. Plastic Night Lords would be awesome. I am making an Alpha Legion army out of my tactical marines and terminators. At a glance you'd think they are loyalist...maybe they are, who knows?

Let Berserker Marines take Eviscerators.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Let Berserker Marines take Eviscerators.

And double chainfists for the World Eaters terminators.

World Eaters:

HQs
Angron (new)
Kharn (existing model)
Lord on a Juggernaught of Khorne (new)
<keep existing Chaos Lord/Daemon Prince/Discolord/Dark Apostle/Exatled Champion/Warpsmith>

Troops
Berzerkers (updated sculpts)
Beastmen (straight out of Blackstone Fortress)
<keep existing Cultists>

Elites
Red Butcher Terminators (new)
Khorgorath (model from AoS)
<keep existing Decimator/Helbrute/Contemptor/Predator/Sicaran>

Fast Attack
Berzerkers on Bikes (new)
<keep existing Chaos Spawn/Dreadclaw/Assault Claw>

Heavy Support/Transports/Flyers
Slaughterbrute (model from AoS)
<keep all the old classic vehicles and daemon engines, but drop Havocs/Oblits>

5 new kits and you introduce 3 existing kits from other games to a wider market.

EightFoldPath wrote:
World Eaters:

HQs
Angron (new)
Kharn (existing model)
Lord on a Juggernaught of Khorne (new)
<keep existing Chaos Lord/Daemon Prince/Discolord/Dark Apostle/Exatled Champion/Warpsmith>

Troops
Berzerkers (updated sculpts)
Beastmen (straight out of Blackstone Fortress)
<keep existing Cultists>

Elites
Red Butcher Terminators (new)
Khorgorath (model from AoS)
<keep existing Decimator/Helbrute/Contemptor/Predator/Sicaran>

Fast Attack
Berzerkers on Bikes (new)
<keep existing Chaos Spawn/Dreadclaw/Assault Claw>

Heavy Support/Transports/Flyers
Slaughterbrute (model from AoS)
<keep all the old classic vehicles and daemon engines, but drop Havocs/Oblits>

5 new kits and you introduce 3 existing kits from other games to a wider market.

By "assault claw" do you mean the Karybdis?

Personally I'd really like to see some properly killy World Eaters Terminators and maybe an assault transport Rhino (not really sure WE are the types to make their own unique vehicle patterns, but a modified Rhino would fit real well), and likewise for EC options for sonic weapons on Terminators as well as Noise Marine Havocs.

For World Eaters, something like the Nurgle Tally might be interesting, where they become more invigorated as stuff gets chopped up, but have it count their own models as well

For World Eaters, in addition to what others have said, I'd like to see something akin to what they did with the old KDK codex. Something to introduce a new mechanic to the army itself.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
By "assault claw" do you mean the Karybdis?

Yes, I was scared I would mis-spell it.

 Vaktathi wrote:
maybe an assault transport Rhino (not really sure WE are the types to make their own unique vehicle patterns, but a modified Rhino would fit real well)

If I was making a single new delivery method for World Eaters I would 100% make a new drop pod. Nothing feels more World Eatery than a one way ticket into a war zone. The problem with the forge world drop pods is they have too many bells and whistles and cost too many points (and also cost a real world fortune). A World Eaters unqiue drop pod should have no weapons, no special rules, maybe even some armour removed to make it as cheap and functional as possible. Although I imagine that wouldn't make the marketing department too happy.

It's possible the new fw books will help with the points costs on the dreadclaw and Karybdis, but unfortunately not the cost in $$$.

Eidolon, update Lucius, add Fabius and genehounds(pipe dream).
A reason or excuse to use powerswords cuz muh lore reasons, mebe an extra attack.
EC Terminators, increased movement by a few inches? Would need some perk to make unique and a mega sonic blaster or a big neck sonic wep like my boi Eidolon in the lore. Lances were a thing for phoenix guard so mebe that'd work.
In short I'll take everything.... or settle for Fabius...

For World Eaters some more variety would be nice. Aside from all the melee stuff I could see some short ranged stuff like Destroyers using nasty rad weapons that could also give some anti-armour.

What I would love to see is berserkers on Juggernaut. I know they used to have those while back

 Dolnikan wrote:
For World Eaters some more variety would be nice. Aside from all the melee stuff I could see some short ranged stuff like Destroyers using nasty rad weapons that could also give some anti-armour.

Rad weapons aren't anti-armour or particularly associated with the World Eaters.

 clodax66 wrote:
What I would love to see is berserkers on Juggernaut. I know they used to have those while back

This. 40k skullcrushers would be awesome. as would bringing lord on juggernaut out of semi-retirement. Since the TS have the vortex beast, giving the WE the slaughterbrute would only be fair. I like the idea of tougher transports for melee units. Also, just like how the TS has tzaangors, maybe the WE could get khorngors (lore-friendly ones with canine faces, not just slightly altered regular beastmen) and EC could get slaangors. To make things fair, GW could go back and make a pestigor box for the DG.

Tycho wrote:
For World Eaters, in addition to what others have said, I'd like to see something akin to what they did with the old KDK codex. Something to introduce a new mechanic to the army itself.

agreed. the blood tide mechanic was a neat idea.

I want to see aspects of the gods expanded and not just "khorne likes to hit things" or "slaanesh more bewbs"

I want an Honourable Chaos Lord Champion that challenges enemy characters to single combat.

I want a Slaaneshy lord obsessed with food and is a giagantic blob of fat.

Give me a Khorne devestator squad dedicated to death from afar.

Give me a Slaaneshy squad based on the harliquins, a squad of dancing space marines.

go nuts with the imagination.

Like a lot of people, I want to see WE/EC get the same treatment that 1KSons and the Death Guard got. Sadly I believe it'll end up being more Death Guard (ultra-mono-pose) than 1KSons (old-style Marine kits), but the aesthetics need and update and EC need plastic Noise Marines.

I want to see proper Berzerker and Noise Marine Terminators. A few new character types. The Slaughterbrute in 40K. Some sort of sonic walker thingy for EC. That sort of thing. And I kind of like the idea of Slaangors having snake-bodies with goat heads. That'd be freaky.

Plus Angron and Fulgrim.

Speaking as a World Eater player of over 20 years, and following the same pattern set by Thousand Sons and Death Guard.

Models: 1-2 new HQ models, new Terminator kit, new Berzerkers, 1-2 new vehicles.

Rules: I just want my army to feel like they all belong together and a Legion Trait that isn't markedly weaker than most other subfaction rules.

The old Traitor Legions book at the end of 7th made everything feel right; all of my units had similar rules (Fearless, Furious Charge and Rage). Terminators felt like Berzerkers in terminator armour; Bikers felt like Berzerkers on bikes; Chaos Lords felt like Berzerkers who still had the capacity to lead; that sort of thing.

The current rules don't quite capture this feeling.

Controversial opinion: remove BFTBG and give Berzerkers the same statline as CSM, just with access to chainaxes and eviscerators or something. Make the Legion Trait the same as BFTBG now, but maybe make it only activate on the turn they charge. If the whole army has the KHORNE faction keyword, units with Hateful Assault replace it with Furious Assault instead: such units gain +2 attacks and +1 strength on the turn in which the charge, are charged or perform a heroic intervention.

It's simple and to the point, exactly as World Eaters should be. It makes the army feel cohesive and actually scary in combat.

 Cheex wrote:
Speaking as a World Eater player of over 20 years, and following the same pattern set by Thousand Sons and Death Guard.

Models: 1-2 new HQ models, new Terminator kit, new Berzerkers, 1-2 new vehicles.

Rules: I just want my army to feel like they all belong together and a Legion Trait that isn't markedly weaker than most other subfaction rules.

The old Traitor Legions book at the end of 7th made everything feel right; all of my units had similar rules (Fearless, Furious Charge and Rage). Terminators felt like Berzerkers in terminator armour; Bikers felt like Berzerkers on bikes; Chaos Lords felt like Berzerkers who still had the capacity to lead; that sort of thing.

The current rules don't quite capture this feeling.

Controversial opinion: remove BFTBG and give Berzerkers the same statline as CSM, just with access to chainaxes and eviscerators or something. Make the Legion Trait the same as BFTBG now, but maybe make it only activate on the turn they charge. If the whole army has the KHORNE faction keyword, units with Hateful Assault replace it with Furious Assault instead: such units gain +2 attacks and +1 strength on the turn in which the charge, are charged or perform a heroic intervention.

It's simple and to the point, exactly as World Eaters should be. It makes the army feel cohesive and actually scary in combat.

Too scary. Fighting Twice on everything from Daemon Princes to Lord Discordants is pretty insane.

Maybe at the start of 8th. Right now? As I said. The problem in meele is not how lethal you are there: Nearly every mele unit worth a dam will delete anything it touches.

The problem is reaching meele in enough capacity to accomplish anything.

 Formosa wrote:
I want to see aspects of the gods expanded and not just "khorne likes to hit things" or "slaanesh more bewbs"

I want an Honourable Chaos Lord Champion that challenges enemy characters to single combat.

I want a Slaaneshy lord obsessed with food and is a giagantic blob of fat.

Give me a Khorne devestator squad dedicated to death from afar.

Give me a Slaaneshy squad based on the harliquins, a squad of dancing space marines.

go nuts with the imagination.

The expanded-aspects-of-the-gods thing is limited some by the fact that, say, a World Eaters Codex would be about the World Eaters who lobotomize themselves into frothing berzerkers rather than the concept of Khorne as a whole. Though the reason the Thousand Sons got all the Tzaangors must be at least partially that they wanted to go outside of the "plodding sorcerous automata" theme without fundamentally revising the Thousand Sons, so maybe other Legions could get auxiliaries like that.

For Khorne I would love a way to sacrifice a rhino to let the occupants disembark after it moves and then charge. Maybe even move themselves after the vehicle does as the guys inside literally rip and tear their way out of it. Fun, thematic and useful with some semblance of balance given the trade off of the vehicle exploding, losing the vehicle and the CP point.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Cheex wrote:
Speaking as a World Eater player of over 20 years, and following the same pattern set by Thousand Sons and Death Guard.

Models: 1-2 new HQ models, new Terminator kit, new Berzerkers, 1-2 new vehicles.

Rules: I just want my army to feel like they all belong together and a Legion Trait that isn't markedly weaker than most other subfaction rules.

The old Traitor Legions book at the end of 7th made everything feel right; all of my units had similar rules (Fearless, Furious Charge and Rage). Terminators felt like Berzerkers in terminator armour; Bikers felt like Berzerkers on bikes; Chaos Lords felt like Berzerkers who still had the capacity to lead; that sort of thing.

The current rules don't quite capture this feeling.

Controversial opinion: remove BFTBG and give Berzerkers the same statline as CSM, just with access to chainaxes and eviscerators or something. Make the Legion Trait the same as BFTBG now, but maybe make it only activate on the turn they charge. If the whole army has the KHORNE faction keyword, units with Hateful Assault replace it with Furious Assault instead: such units gain +2 attacks and +1 strength on the turn in which the charge, are charged or perform a heroic intervention.

It's simple and to the point, exactly as World Eaters should be. It makes the army feel cohesive and actually scary in combat.

Too scary. Fighting Twice on everything from Daemon Princes to Lord Discordants is pretty insane.

in fairness if I was tasked with writing a WE codex the Lord discordant would be one of the things that I'd proably cut, such a.. technical type character doesn't work well with the brutal mindset of world eaters.

For World Eaters:

Lord of War: Angron (obviously)

HQ:

Khorne Lord
Khorne Lord in Terminator Armour
Khorne Lord with Jump Pack
Khorne Lord with Bike
Khorne Lord on Juggernaught
Khorne Lieutenant
Khorne Lieutenant in Terminator Armour
Khorne Lieutenant with Jump Pack
Khorne Lieutenant with Bike
Khorne Lieutenant on Juggernaught
Blood Priest
Blood Priest in Terminator Armour
Blood Priest with Jump Pack
Blood Priest with Bike
Blood Priest on Juggernaught
Warp Smith
Warp Smith in Terminator Armour
Warp Smith with Jump Pack
Warp Smith with Bike
Warp Smith on Juggernaught
Master of Exectuions
Master of Exectuions in Terminator Armour
Master of Exectuions with Jump Pack
Master of Exectuions with Bike
Master of Exectuions on Juggernaught
Daemon Prince
Kharn

Troops:
Berserkers
Cultists
Khornigors
Bloodletters

Elite:
Khornate Terminators
Red Butchers
Khornate Dreadnought
Some kind of Elite Berserker unit
Khorgoraths
Khorne version of a Lone Wolf
Some kind of Khorne Daemon Engine

Fast Attack:
Berserkers on Bikes
Berserkers with Jump Packs
Berserkers on Juggernoughts
Flesh Hounds
Blood Crushers
Furies

Heavy Support:
Land Raider
Some kind of new Khorne Land Raider with more unit capacity
Predator
Vindicator
Maulerfiend
Forgefiend
Berserker Havocs (maybe they have to pass a leadership test or only fire at the closest target)
Defiler
Some kind of Khornate tank with lots of chaincannons or something

Flyers:
Heldrake
Some kind of Khornate Storm Raven

Transports:
Rhino
New Khornate Transport tank