Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Gentlemen,

I am about to declare my necron doomsday ark done, which means I'm pretty much tired of trying to make it look better. maybe just a few touches of metallic silver to go....

I normally do not do gw decals on models. Hell, last time I applied gw decals was to my girlfeirnds fingernails, she saw some she liked and wondered if they would go on over nailpolish.

But I am thinking of maybe putting just a couple of those decals on the DDA, and I'm remembering my early days strange aeons ago, when I tried to clearspray over a decal and it turned into an ugly wrinkled blur.

So how does one combine miniatures, decals and clearspray successfully?

I put down a coat of gloss brush-on varnish, then apply the decal (using Micro Sol and Micro Set if the surface isn't flat), then cover over the decal with more gloss brush-on varnish, then spray matte varnish over everything to give it a nice matte finish.

I dont know why that would happen, other than maybe it wasnt fully set? maybe it had liquid underneath it or something.

if you use microsol/set and allow it to cure. leave it overnight to be sure, you should have no issue.

I use satin rather than gloss under my decals.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
I dont know why that would happen, other than maybe it wasnt fully set? maybe it had liquid underneath it or something.

if you use microsol/set and allow it to cure. leave it overnight to be sure, you should have no issue.

I use satin rather than gloss under my decals.

Same here, easier to get the finish consistent than gloss I find.

What purpose does putting varnish on before the decal serve?

Creates a smooth surface so that air wont get trapped under the decal and cause silvering.

Yup. the smoother surface also means the decal will lay smooth, and also means you can move it around to more easily ensure correct placement.

To be fair, sometimes laying directly over just paint isnt an issue. I do it sometimes if I'm feeling lazy. but if you think you'll want to fine adjust your placement, a varnish underneath will help, and provide some level of protection for the paint layer underneath against potential scuffs or scrapes as you move it.

Ok, interesting, thanks. I have been been wetting the surface a bit with Micro Set before laying the decal. Is this ultimately similar to using the varnish first, or is the latter better?

I brush on gloss where I will apply the decal then when dry apply the decal into position.
Then touch over the top of the decal again with the gloss as its solvented which softens and shrinks it to the surface then finally
when dry go over a final time with an matt anti shine coat.


Youll find that the spray would have dried soo fast it pulled up the decal after softening on initial contact

What Queen Annes Revenge said, you want a matt finish on your decals. You can do this by painting lahmian medium over the decal and letting it dry then using a dry brush to buff the surface. I find that the only way to really get good finish on decals is to simply paint over them and use them a guide for freehand

edit: Also make sure you're using micro set or white vinegar to soften the decal so it adheres to the surface properly

 harlokin wrote:
Ok, interesting, thanks. I have been been wetting the surface a bit with Micro Set before laying the decal. Is this ultimately similar to using the varnish first, or is the latter better?

No. apply the varnish first (or not, if youre being lazy like me) then also use micro set. once your micro set has cured, have a look at it. it might need the micro sol, it might not. micro sol is more to help the decal conform to more irregular surfaces, or rounded surfaces like shoulder pads etc, but if you want you can apply a little over flat decals. Beware this can turn them into wrinkly bean bag looking things, but dont fret, it is not permanent. wait until it dries, and then hit it with mirco set again and it will flatten back out. this doesnt seem to happen every time so I'm not 100% on the mechanics of it.

if it doesnt, apply your final varnish (provided you dont plan on doing any weathering etc)

As Axel says, sometimes, you might find that working a little of your base colour onto the clear edges of the decal (if you havent used a fine scalpel or similar to cut the exact shape of the decal image) this can help it blend onto your piece better. again, its not always necessary, but can be useful.

Thanks very much mate.

Would the same apply to large decals? I've had an issue with decals tearing while I'm trying position them correctly on the model, and I'm worried that the slightly adhesive qualities of the varnish would make it more difficult.

well the varnish needs to be cured first. leave it overnight, or at least a few hours to ensure full curing. what are you using to move the decals? I generally use tweezers, or a flat brush to place them, then use a wet brush to gently manipulate them to the desired position.

That makes sense.

I've been wetting the general area with Micro Set, then putting the decal on top, using liquid and a brush to help manoeuvre it into position. The decals in question are about an inch and a half long, so I suppose fragility may be unavaoidable.

Yeah if you're ripping decals you're being too heavy handed or you damaged it somehow in the removal process. I've heard of melting decals with solvent based solutions but really Microset will work on anything it just takes a lot of "softening" literally pressing down/rolling out the decal with a paper towel Every 5 minutes and applying Microset on top of the decal (After its applied on the mini) For space marine shoulder pads it's a lot of work. Ur almost ironing it on.

Thats the method I used on these ultramarines. Was a lot of work. I also cut a line down the decals so they curved easier

Btw if the image is upside down if you click it should it fine no idea why it does that. Bad photo tbh but you easily achievable with a bit of microset and patience.

Would second the heavy handed comment, I tend to use two wet brushes to manipulate large decals (upto 6 inches long) and have only had one rip. It could be the shape of the decal as well though, are you talking about the glyphs on your DE vehicles? I could see how the decal curling on the thinner/pointer bit could encourage tearing.

aye. if your decals are too large to handle without issues, you could always carefully dissect them into easier sections, then reassemble it as you place it.

Thanks very much for the advice guys, much appreciated.

Yes, the decals I've had problems with are the large glyphs and tribal patterns from Fallout Hobbies. They look great, but aren't individually separated, so I have to cut them in such a way that there isn't too much edging, but I still have something for the tweezers to hold on to.

Wait wait, tweezers? Use a brush bro lift it off, gentle with it.

I find cutting right up to the edge of the decal can be more troublesome than just painting around the edge after you applied it, just because it's pretty much impossible to get it perfect and so much margin for error/damage

Here’s the best front to back tutorial I have yet found on decals. http://www.winterdyne.co.uk/maz/winterdyne_tutorial3.pdf

Definitely use a wet brush but not soaking wet to slide the transfers off the backing paper.

Tweezers will certainly tear the decals

I was just using the tweezers to grip the backing paper

It depends on your tools. I have a stockpile of medical scalpels which are good for fine cutting. I use tweezers or a brush to get it out of the water. I usually just chuck it into the water and leave it until it separates or use a brush to slide it off while its in the water. As I said, I'm lazy ha

I find an eyeshadow brush works great for moving decals. They don't tear like a tweezer and grip decal better than a regular brush (some of the larger ones even with lots of water can be a pita to move around with a soft bristle brush).

My thanks aplenty to all who replied, I'm off to a dollar store now to pick up a bottle of clear nail polish, among other things.

I was gonna link my tutorial but someone already did.

Don't use nail polish. Many have acetone in them which will feth up your paintjob in short order, and can cause damage to plastic.

Get a good acrylic gloss varnish (these days I use Winsor & Newton Galleria varnishes pretty much exclusively).

winterdyne wrote:
I was gonna link my tutorial but someone already did.

Don't use nail polish. Many have acetone in them which will feth up your paintjob in short order, and can cause damage to plastic.

Get a good acrylic gloss varnish (these days I use Winsor & Newton Galleria varnishes pretty much exclusively).

I saw your advice just in time, I picked up some" L A Colors" clear at a dollar store and tried it on a bit of bare sprue. It did affect the plastic. Now I'm not sure what to do. Maybe spray soly clearspray into a cap to accumulate it (Avoid concentrated fumes, use fan) and try brushing itit on a decal applied to a bit of plastic so see if the solvent is the problem and if it evaporates off as the paint accumulates.

Thanks for saving me a bit of grief.

Tamiya clear gloss for me, solvent acrylic

Why are you trying to decant varnish from a spray can? Just get some artists acrylics in big ass tubs.

 harlokin wrote:
I was just using the tweezers to grip the backing paper

Haha sorry they definitely have uses. The best way I find to do it is wet a piece of tissue and just place the decal+backing paper on to it. 5 mins later use your brush to slide the transfer off the backing paper off to the edge and then get the brush underneath the transfer to lift it off (you dont need pressure on the backing paper.)

Decals can curl and warp easily when you lift them out of water as apposed to off a paper towel but depends on the decal, ideally you want the decal to be pretty firm and straight just sitting on ur brush and is easy to place on the mini.