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so, to summarize the stream:

Grey knights were great in 8th
vehicles can move and fire heavy weapons in 9th.
Grey knights are good because they can cast psychic powers.
You can spend CP put your models in reserve! That'll be...awesome with...grey knights?
Elites rule in 9th, you will see lots of elites.

Its hard to present when you have nothing to say.
Really feel they have overly milked this. Especially since there is probably another 3-4 weeks to go.

I wouldn't mind a show where they reveal something a bit more meaningful - i.e, here are the new index points for some key units, here are some key faction special rules and how they have been changed in 9th (see Tau).

But someone having to say "yeah, Grey Knights, we get... storm bolters and psychic powers... uh... yeah." for 10 minutes is a bit pointless.

the_scotsman wrote:
so, to summarize the stream:

Grey knights were great in 8th
vehicles can move and fire heavy weapons in 9th.
Grey knights are good because they can cast psychic powers.
You can spend CP put your models in reserve! That'll be...awesome with...grey knights?
Elites rule in 9th, you will see lots of elites.

Yea that was an utter waste of time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
OMG the article is all stratagems.

If the edition is aprox 1 month from now just show us actual stuff. Whats the problem with that.

Really GW. Learn how to do previews.

the_scotsman wrote:
so, to summarize the stream:

Grey knights were great in 8th
vehicles can move and fire heavy weapons in 9th.
Grey knights are good because they can cast psychic powers.
You can spend CP put your models in reserve! That'll be...awesome with...grey knights?
Elites rule in 9th, you will see lots of elites.

You forgot the "WOW!" to correctly indicate how earth shattering today's reveals were.

Talking about rules when neither person does rules stuff seems silly.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
MSU's for marines will not work if there is a reliance on character auras still.

It will be too easy to snipe characters, potentially on the first turn, if not definitely the second unless you are sitting back with a castle and have the characters hidden by terrain, at which point you nuke the MSU's, deep strike/strategic reserve in and take the character out at a more preferable angle.

I think assumptions of how the game will play will be drastically different once the cause and effect synergy of all the other new rules are realised.

I'd be willing to guess the same will be for quite a lot of factions.

Except vehicles and monsters can still Look out Sir and you're leaving your inbound units in incredibly vulnerable positions to kill one, maybe 2 characters. It's going to play out very similarly to how it did in 8th except it's going to punish mistakes way harder. which is fine, but it's not going to make MSU NOT the best way to go. Especially considering 10man squads(which is the max for a lot of imperial infantry) get screwed over by the new Coherency rules AND the blast rules.

the_scotsman wrote:
so, to summarize the stream:

Grey knights were great in 8th
vehicles can move and fire heavy weapons in 9thallready known .
Grey knights are good because they can cast psychic powers. no gak sherlock
You can spend CP put your models in reserve! That'll be...awesome with...grey knights?
Elites rule in 9th, you will see lots of elites. yeah cause light inf is dead

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

After all the info yesterday, talk about a disappointment today.

 Galas wrote:
If the edition is aprox 1 month from now just show us actual stuff. Whats the problem with that.

Really GW. Learn how to do previews.

They're pretty good with Stu. Here's hoping there's some other article due out, because good grief what a bust. I was hoping for something saltier so we can put yesterday behind us.

the_scotsman wrote:
so, to summarize the stream:

Grey knights were great in 8th

fething WHAT was that serious?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
so, to summarize the stream:

Grey knights were great in 8th

fething WHAT was that serious?

oh, yeah, 100%, that is a serious summary.

Well they aren't entirely wrong, GK can be nasty against a casual, unoptimized or unprepared army, especially if they spam psilencers.

Against a fine tuned forced that has actual options at hand though? Not really strong, no.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Well they aren't entirely wrong, GK can be nasty against a casual, unoptimized or unprepared army, especially if they spam psilencers.

Against a fine tuned forced that has actual options at hand though? Not really strong, no.

You're not serious either are you? Even an optimized list was bad against another army's casual list!

This would've been an excellent time to give us a look at the psychic phase. Seeing as they haven't mentioned it at all, it's fair to assume there are little to no changes.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Well they aren't entirely wrong, GK can be nasty against a casual, unoptimized or unprepared army, especially if they spam psilencers.

Against a fine tuned forced that has actual options at hand though? Not really strong, no.

You're not serious either are you? Even an optimized list was bad against another army's casual list!

In my local FLGS the GK player we had was a nightmare to play against because of the psilencer camping spam. If you don't get first turn to rush the purgation squad he'll delete a strong unit with his ignore los nonsense.

GK aren't that weak. They were just one note, over priced and had few real options.
Like Necrons.

Leggy wrote:
This would've been an excellent time to give us a look at the psychic phase. Seeing as they haven't mentioned it at all, it's fair to assume there are little to no changes.

Or at least tell us if they changed Smite or not.

Leggy wrote:
This would've been an excellent time to give us a look at the psychic phase. Seeing as they haven't mentioned it at all, it's fair to assume there are little to no changes.

Eh. There is a fair bit they haven't talked about (movement (including charging & pile in), LOS (as opposed to cover), targeting (is it unit or model? Some of the cover rules imply a change), psychic, melee, casualty removal, etc). And they seem to underestimate the effect of little wording changes.

Plus there's ~3 weeks of previews left. Not mentioned yet doesn't equate to 'no change.' And a little change doesn't equate to low impact.

 addnid wrote:
I wonder how the GW staff will react when they will go see tournaments, and see with their own eyes what they have done...

They will put best tzeentch voice and say "just as planned".

It's not accident. It's deliberate. They would be annoyed if people kept playing same light infantry hordes as that would mean sale strategy failed


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Well they aren't entirely wrong, GK can be nasty against a casual, unoptimized or unprepared army, especially if they spam psilencers.

Against a fine tuned forced that has actual options at hand though? Not really strong, no.

Did you miss how they started to do well in tournaments post pa? The mw spam they do is silly and 10 near invulnerable paladins are tough

tneva82 wrote:

 addnid wrote:
I wonder how the GW staff will react when they will go see tournaments, and see with their own eyes what they have done...

They will put best tzeentch voice and say "just as planned".

It's not accident. It's deliberate. They would be annoyed if people kept playing same light infantry hordes as that would mean sale strategy failed


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Well they aren't entirely wrong, GK can be nasty against a casual, unoptimized or unprepared army, especially if they spam psilencers.

Against a fine tuned forced that has actual options at hand though? Not really strong, no.

Did you miss how they started to do well in tournaments post pa? The mw spam they do is silly and 10 near invulnerable paladins are tough

Yeah, good at the end of 8th edition is not what they're referring to, but instead for the edition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Well they aren't entirely wrong, GK can be nasty against a casual, unoptimized or unprepared army, especially if they spam psilencers.

Against a fine tuned forced that has actual options at hand though? Not really strong, no.

You're not serious either are you? Even an optimized list was bad against another army's casual list!

In my local FLGS the GK player we had was a nightmare to play against because of the psilencer camping spam. If you don't get first turn to rush the purgation squad he'll delete a strong unit with his ignore los nonsense.

GK aren't that weak. They were just one note, over priced and had few real options.
Like Necrons.

That's...not hard to beat unless you're just throwing whatever random crap on the table.

Apparently after giving us so much to talk about over the last 3 days, GW took a day off providing any real 9th Edition content. Not one thing new today. Not even a tiny morsel.

 alextroy wrote:
Apparently after giving us so much to talk about over the last 3 days, GW took a day off providing any real 9th Edition content. Not one thing new today. Not even a tiny morsel.

Wasn't there supposed to be another one of those "versus" articles about the box set again?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Apparently after giving us so much to talk about over the last 3 days, GW took a day off providing any real 9th Edition content. Not one thing new today. Not even a tiny morsel.

Wasn't there supposed to be another one of those "versus" articles about the box set again?

They do usually do 2 articles. Not sure if that will happen today or what it would be, but that might be likely.

Yesterday, after seeing the coherency rules, I did a few tests. They all involved me attempting to get as many models from a brood of 30 Hormagaunts into CC with 10 intercessors, while maintaining that 2in1". Against a single unit, charges over 6" were incredibly difficult to get a meaningful number in while maintaining coherency. But for scenarios against 2 5man intercessors, it became almost impossible. If the second unit is more than 8"away, it was nearly impossible to make the charge without boxcars. And, no matter what I did, there would always be 1 or two gaunts removed after morale ( I assumed synapse was present btw) due to pile ins and consolidate moves.

If anyone else has luck surrounding 10 32mm bases spaced intelligently, I'm very interested in how to pull that off. I can't imagine how fethed boyz are without bounding leap.

StarHunter25 wrote:
Yesterday, after seeing the coherency rules, I did a few tests. They all involved me attempting to get as many models from a brood of 30 Hormagaunts into CC with 10 intercessors, while maintaining that 2in1". Against a single unit, charges over 6" were incredibly difficult to get a meaningful number in while maintaining coherency. But for scenarios against 2 5man intercessors, it became almost impossible. If the second unit is more than 8"away, it was nearly impossible to make the charge without boxcars. And, no matter what I did, there would always be 1 or two gaunts removed after morale ( I assumed synapse was present btw) due to pile ins and consolidate moves.

If anyone else has luck surrounding 10 32mm bases spaced intelligently, I'm very interested in how to pull that off. I can't imagine how fethed boyz are without bounding leap.

This isn't an achievable test, because we don't know what the pile in or consolidate rule are or if coherency matters in melee. Just going to have to wait.

I'm also confused how they are losing models to the coherency check. I mean, one would imagine that the models would be near each other while in melee.

Given there are several stratagems in PA that allow you to consolidate any direction, I have doubts that is changed at all.

The dudes from Vanguard Tactics on youtube are going to drop a video this evening explaining more in depth, on the actual table, with terrain how the coherency works, what formations can be adapted and how best to remove models and maximize your lines.

Should be interesting to watch.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

StarHunter25 wrote:
Yesterday, after seeing the coherency rules, I did a few tests. They all involved me attempting to get as many models from a brood of 30 Hormagaunts into CC with 10 intercessors, while maintaining that 2in1". Against a single unit, charges over 6" were incredibly difficult to get a meaningful number in while maintaining coherency. But for scenarios against 2 5man intercessors, it became almost impossible. If the second unit is more than 8"away, it was nearly impossible to make the charge without boxcars. And, no matter what I did, there would always be 1 or two gaunts removed after morale ( I assumed synapse was present btw) due to pile ins and consolidate moves.

If anyone else has luck surrounding 10 32mm bases spaced intelligently, I'm very interested in how to pull that off. I can't imagine how fethed boyz are without bounding leap.

This isn't an achievable test, because we don't know what the pile in or consolidate rule are or if coherency matters in melee. Just going to have to wait.

I don’t see anything to suggest that coherency will be different in melee to any other part of the game. I expect it will be the same as now, that after any move of any type the unit must be in coherency. The only differences are what constitutes coherency and the consequences of losing coherency.

Do we know that coherency is required for CC? I seem to recall prior editions played it fast and loose while combat raged, but once things settled down you needed to muster the troops together before moving on.