40k 9th edition, : App released page 413

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**NinthMusketeer**

TBF, I think the floor of how bad a faction can be is much lower in AoS. There were/are factions that bringing to a tournament did not just lock you out of the top few dozen places; they locked you out of anything higher than the bottom third. However, one could argue that such factions are not 'real' factions in the sense that they are not meant to compare to those with a battletome (AoS for 'codex').

**H.B.M.C.**

Well stockists are starting to receive their copies. I've seen fields of cardboard boxes, just waiting to be shipped.

**AduroT**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Well stockists are starting to receive their copies. I've seen fields of cardboard boxes, just waiting to be shipped.

We were told to expect ours by the end of day Tuesday. Invoiced us for the full thirty we ordered so shouldn’t be shorted anything.

**tneva82**

Our local store got their stock already. Big pile of boxes. Teasers!

**Drakheart**

My Warhammer is up for you to register ready for the app :

https://mywarhammer.com/

Registered, but still waiting on the verification e-mail to arrive despite hitting resend a few times. Looks like teething troubles with the site as trying to return to the homepage gives an error!

**tneva82**

Drakheart wrote:
My Warhammer is up for you to register ready for the app :

https://mywarhammer.com/

Registered, but still waiting on the verification e-mail to arrive despite hitting resend a few times. Looks like teething troubles with the site as trying to return to the homepage gives an error!

Yeah. Hopefully GW doesn't try to push their app as some sort of tournament scoring system as well in future. Dread to imagine how badly their servers would cope with it...

**mrshl9898**

Removed - Rule #1 please

**Albertorius**

Seems to me you're looking for "news outlet" instead of "discussion forums".

**H.B.M.C.**

Drakheart wrote:
Registered, but still waiting on the verification e-mail to arrive despite hitting resend a few times. Looks like teething troubles with the site as trying to return to the homepage gives an error!

Yeah I registered over 12 hours ago. No E-mail.

**Leth**

I blocked about 2-3 names and it shuts down like 200 pages worth of posts. That would probably help.

**Asmodai**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Drakheart wrote:
Registered, but still waiting on the verification e-mail to arrive despite hitting resend a few times. Looks like teething troubles with the site as trying to return to the homepage gives an error!
Yeah I registered over 12 hours ago. No E-mail.

The confirmation emails are being sent by "no-reply" <no-reply@mywarhammer.com>, so they're blocked by many spam filters. Adding that sender to your safe senders list and hitting re-send may fix the issue (depending on what level it's being filtered).

**AduroT**

Asmodai wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Drakheart wrote:
Registered, but still waiting on the verification e-mail to arrive despite hitting resend a few times. Looks like teething troubles with the site as trying to return to the homepage gives an error!
Yeah I registered over 12 hours ago. No E-mail.

The confirmation emails are being sent by "no-reply" <no-reply@mywarhammer.com>, so they're blocked by many spam filters. Adding that sender to your safe senders list and hitting re-send may fix the issue (depending on what level it's being filtered).

I’ve got nothing in my spam folder.

**stratigo**

ERJAK wrote:
stratigo wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
stratigo wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
gungo wrote:
oni wrote:
My opinions on the new missions aside... I am thankful that we (e.g. Straight from the book players, ITC players, NOVA players, etc.) can finally be on the same page.

That said, I still have concerns that ITC and NOVA will do what they do and modify / house-rule things.

Lastly, I think it's important to keep in mind that if you do not care for the new mission design; that new, redesigned and refined missions will come. We saw this in 8th with Core to CA:17 to CA:18 to CA:19. If you cannot wait or simply dislike how the new missions pander to the tournament players; 8th edition missions are still perfectly playable.

As Brandt literally works for GW now and although he Technically stepped back from NOVA..
I have a feeling any house rules by nova/itc will just be beta test rules before it’s officially in chapter approved.
There is also the point Gw will be continually adding new missions and not every Tournament mission will make the tournament cut.
Odds are they will just settle on 6 missions to use for each round.

Sigmar has used the (frankly great) GHB missions since the first GHB dropped but every tournament still has house rules that add for flavor...and stop stupid gak like random realm of battle rules.

The balance in AoS has always been off.

Not anywhere as near as bad as 40k. Even with realm of battle not helping things.

Quite often as bad as 40k, and often even much worse. There was a significant period where 40k was, at least in faction winrates, reaching almost 50/50 balance in most factions. Then space marines happened. This was around the time that slaanesh was just crunching every single AoS army and living around 68ish winrates (If my memory of their winrates are correct). But I don't recall a time where AoS winrates are tracked that some faction isn't overperforming dramatically. The data on AoS is, admittedly, less extensive than 40k's.

Faction winrates are a screwy mechanic to judge balance by in both 40k and AoS simply due to the absolutely enormous gaps in skill that exist even at a tournament level. Even then, I straight up don't believe you that it was anywhere near 50/50 in most factions unless by 'most factions' you meant 'eldar and imperial soup'.

If you look at top 16 and top 32 finishes in big events, Sigmar is and has always been worlds better balanced. Even at Slaanesh's strongest point they were never more than 3 out of the top 16 (even if they did win fairly often) meanwhile marines in general but IH specifically were constantly 10-12 out of 16 for the entire supplement era. It also was capping out at 80% faction winrate before the the first round of nerfs came in and knocked them down to ravenguard's roughly 65-70% winrate (sound familiar?). Slaanesh was the the most OP army release we saw in AoS2 and it was nowhere near as bad as Ironhands and was only on par with post nerf IH and RG Asscents lists before recieving its own round of nerfs that leveled it back off far more effectively than marine nerfs have. Especially with 9th giving marines even more tools to stand above the pack.

You also have the fact that you'll see representation from 10-12 different factions in the top 16 of a Sigmar event whereas you're lucky to have 3-4 factions in a 40k event. This is the bigger problem with 40k balance vs AoS balance. Flesh Eater Courts might be a couple percentage points behind Slaanesh, but taking FEC to a tournament doesn't effectively lock you out of the top 16 the way taking Admech, or Grey Knights, or Nids, or Harlequins, or Necrons, or Space Wolves, or Blood Angels did.

You don't have to believe me. Look it up.

40kstatscenter. It has the data.

To make clear, in LVO 2019, the only faction that had a winrate approaching 60 was ynnari.

From there the majority of factions in the game were sitting 45 to 55 percent pure winrates, and actually much more generous faction winrates (EG winrates not counting mirror matches, though this pushes craftworlds eldar up, in that they made up a portion of the ynnari lists too).

The only faction overperforming was eldar, and they were not cracking 60 percent at least. Necrons, grey knights, tyranids, and space wolves were under performing. Blood angels had a strangely low pure winrate, but a significantly higher faction winrate.

This is a better balance than AoS has ever had, far as I can tell.

**Skinnereal**

Asmodai wrote:
The confirmation emails are being sent by "no-reply" <no-reply@mywarhammer.com>, so they're blocked by many spam filters. Adding that sender to your safe senders list and hitting re-send may fix the issue (depending on what level it's being filtered).

I registered when the first announcements came out, but had no email. Not in spam, nor elsewhere.
Pressing the 'resend' button on the screen will only clog up their system even more, so I gave it a day before trying that.
But, I can still log into the website, so the sign-up worked.

**Ragnar69**

I registered last night and clicked often on resend. This morning I had lots of emails

**Platuan4th**

The Resend box now says "Error 500 Nurglings in the System".

**ERJAK**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
TBF, I think the floor of how bad a faction can be is much lower in AoS. There were/are factions that bringing to a tournament did not just lock you out of the top few dozen places; they locked you out of anything higher than the bottom third. However, one could argue that such factions are not 'real' factions in the sense that they are not meant to compare to those with a battletome (AoS for 'codex').

40k has that too. Renegades and Heretics, Corsairs, and inquisition. The bottom is just as low in 40k, all that changes is what people do and do not consider a 'faction'.

Also, not for nothing but almost every sigmar faction in the game has either gotten an update that makes them on par with everything else (cities of sigmar, LoN) or has been retired from competitive play (bretonnia, tomb kings).

I just signed up and got the confirmation email within seconds. Using gmail. Might be a provider thing?

**stratigo**

ERJAK wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
TBF, I think the floor of how bad a faction can be is much lower in AoS. There were/are factions that bringing to a tournament did not just lock you out of the top few dozen places; they locked you out of anything higher than the bottom third. However, one could argue that such factions are not 'real' factions in the sense that they are not meant to compare to those with a battletome (AoS for 'codex').

40k has that too. Renegades and Heretics, Corsairs, and inquisition. The bottom is just as low in 40k, all that changes is what people do and do not consider a 'faction'.

Also, not for nothing but almost every sigmar faction in the game has either gotten an update that makes them on par with everything else (cities of sigmar, LoN) or has been retired from competitive play (bretonnia, tomb kings).

Despite the buzz, CoS never competed with the big dogs.

Again, there are currently multiple factions with 60 plus percent winrates in AoS, and a lot of factions sub 45 percent. And this has always been the case

**whembly**

H wrote:
I just signed up and got the confirmation email within seconds. Using gmail. Might be a provider thing?

I signed up last night, literally go the confirmation email a few minutes ago.

They're working on it.

**Drakheart**

I just signed up and got the confirmation email within seconds. Using gmail. Might be a provider thing?

I'm using gmail as well and still nothing, checked the junk folder as well.

**ERJAK**

stratigo wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
stratigo wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
stratigo wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
gungo wrote:
oni wrote:
My opinions on the new missions aside... I am thankful that we (e.g. Straight from the book players, ITC players, NOVA players, etc.) can finally be on the same page.

That said, I still have concerns that ITC and NOVA will do what they do and modify / house-rule things.

Lastly, I think it's important to keep in mind that if you do not care for the new mission design; that new, redesigned and refined missions will come. We saw this in 8th with Core to CA:17 to CA:18 to CA:19. If you cannot wait or simply dislike how the new missions pander to the tournament players; 8th edition missions are still perfectly playable.

As Brandt literally works for GW now and although he Technically stepped back from NOVA..
I have a feeling any house rules by nova/itc will just be beta test rules before it’s officially in chapter approved.
There is also the point Gw will be continually adding new missions and not every Tournament mission will make the tournament cut.
Odds are they will just settle on 6 missions to use for each round.

Sigmar has used the (frankly great) GHB missions since the first GHB dropped but every tournament still has house rules that add for flavor...and stop stupid gak like random realm of battle rules.

The balance in AoS has always been off.

Not anywhere as near as bad as 40k. Even with realm of battle not helping things.

Quite often as bad as 40k, and often even much worse. There was a significant period where 40k was, at least in faction winrates, reaching almost 50/50 balance in most factions. Then space marines happened. This was around the time that slaanesh was just crunching every single AoS army and living around 68ish winrates (If my memory of their winrates are correct). But I don't recall a time where AoS winrates are tracked that some faction isn't overperforming dramatically. The data on AoS is, admittedly, less extensive than 40k's.

Faction winrates are a screwy mechanic to judge balance by in both 40k and AoS simply due to the absolutely enormous gaps in skill that exist even at a tournament level. Even then, I straight up don't believe you that it was anywhere near 50/50 in most factions unless by 'most factions' you meant 'eldar and imperial soup'.

If you look at top 16 and top 32 finishes in big events, Sigmar is and has always been worlds better balanced. Even at Slaanesh's strongest point they were never more than 3 out of the top 16 (even if they did win fairly often) meanwhile marines in general but IH specifically were constantly 10-12 out of 16 for the entire supplement era. It also was capping out at 80% faction winrate before the the first round of nerfs came in and knocked them down to ravenguard's roughly 65-70% winrate (sound familiar?). Slaanesh was the the most OP army release we saw in AoS2 and it was nowhere near as bad as Ironhands and was only on par with post nerf IH and RG Asscents lists before recieving its own round of nerfs that leveled it back off far more effectively than marine nerfs have. Especially with 9th giving marines even more tools to stand above the pack.

You also have the fact that you'll see representation from 10-12 different factions in the top 16 of a Sigmar event whereas you're lucky to have 3-4 factions in a 40k event. This is the bigger problem with 40k balance vs AoS balance. Flesh Eater Courts might be a couple percentage points behind Slaanesh, but taking FEC to a tournament doesn't effectively lock you out of the top 16 the way taking Admech, or Grey Knights, or Nids, or Harlequins, or Necrons, or Space Wolves, or Blood Angels did.

You don't have to believe me. Look it up.

40kstatscenter. It has the data.

To make clear, in LVO 2019, the only faction that had a winrate approaching 60 was ynnari.

From there the majority of factions in the game were sitting 45 to 55 percent pure winrates, and actually much more generous faction winrates (EG winrates not counting mirror matches, though this pushes craftworlds eldar up, in that they made up a portion of the ynnari lists too).

The only faction overperforming was eldar, and they were not cracking 60 percent at least. Necrons, grey knights, tyranids, and space wolves were under performing. Blood angels had a strangely low pure winrate, but a significantly higher faction winrate.

This is a better balance than AoS has ever had, far as I can tell.

Not really, it's about what we were at before slaanesh came out and pretty close to what the LVO 2020 had going too.

Also, look at the 8. 4 were Castellan Lists, 3 were eldar, 1 chaos soup, 1 tau. Meanwhile a GT for sigmar in the Slaanesh era was 1. Deepkin 2. Slaanesh 3. Skaven. 4.Daughters 5.sylvaneth 6. Blades of Khorne 7. Slaanesh 8. Deepkin. That's 6 factions vs 3 factions and 1 model.

Then compare that to LVO 2020: 40k had less factions in their top 16 than Sigmar did in their top 6. Go out to top 16 on Sigmar and they had as many different factions as 40k had marine lists.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

stratigo wrote:
ERJAK wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
TBF, I think the floor of how bad a faction can be is much lower in AoS. There were/are factions that bringing to a tournament did not just lock you out of the top few dozen places; they locked you out of anything higher than the bottom third. However, one could argue that such factions are not 'real' factions in the sense that they are not meant to compare to those with a battletome (AoS for 'codex').

40k has that too. Renegades and Heretics, Corsairs, and inquisition. The bottom is just as low in 40k, all that changes is what people do and do not consider a 'faction'.

Also, not for nothing but almost every sigmar faction in the game has either gotten an update that makes them on par with everything else (cities of sigmar, LoN) or has been retired from competitive play (bretonnia, tomb kings).

Despite the buzz, CoS never competed with the big dogs.

Again, there are currently multiple factions with 60 plus percent winrates in AoS, and a lot of factions sub 45 percent. And this has always been the case

CoS competed just fine, even took a couple of events after the book. And what do you mean 'currently'? No ones playing any tournament games, how you getting 60% of 0?

So let's say those stats are true, why isn't that reflected in any major events or in player attitudes? Why do we see Beasts of Chaos, blades of khorne, stormcast, and other B and C tier armies 1. Being played and 2. finishing in the top brackets when playing grey knights or Nids gets apologetic looks and pats on the shoulder and threats to quit the game if their PA isn't crazy OP?

You're really focused on this 'average winrate' stat, which is fine but it's not anywhere near the full picture. The fact that the stat showed marines at 80%, which makes the IH supplement easily the worst bit of balance either game has EVER seen, is also getting glossed over a bit but that's neither here nor there.

**stratigo**

Is there a way to quote just the part of a post that is the person's message without manually deleting literally all the old posts? Cause these chains can get ridiculous.

Aaaaanyways, The top X is not the best way to examine game balance, particularly for anyone not literally in the top 8. You're (and I'm not) not as good at tony or nick or whoever.

The best way to check balance is winrates, how often people with an idea to compete, but not the time and effort and money invested like the absolute top folks can win with an army.

**Motograter**

Multipart blade guard. Plasma pistol, shield on back, heads etc

**Nevelon**

Motograter wrote:
Multipart blade guard. Plasma pistol, shield on back, heads etc

Well, money was nice to have for a while. Looks like I’m going to be buying the box for all the cool models, and then all the individual kits for even more cool models.

I can space out those purchases though.

**Motograter**

Nevelon wrote:
Motograter wrote:
Multipart blade guard. Plasma pistol, shield on back, heads etc

I can space out those purchases though.

No, no you can't lol

**Geifer**

Aww, poor guy. He has to fight with pistol and sword because he can't reach his shield, and his buddies won't help because it's too much fun to see him struggle.

**Voss**

Motograter wrote:
Multipart blade guard. Plasma pistol, shield on back, heads etc

Where'd that pic come from?

Geifer wrote:
Aww, poor guy. He has to fight with pistol and sword because he can't reach his shield, and his buddies won't help because it's too much fun to see him struggle.

Bah. Its Cawl-tech. If he does the right sort of Spin-kick motion they shield will automatically release from the backpack and drop right on his arm when he swings back around, instantly killing his opponent in the process.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

The whole pistol+sword+shield looks incredibly impractical, until you realize those guys are ultramarines.
We all know that Ultramarines "defeated" the tyranids on Maccrage and that since then they have kept worshiping the two-armed emperor, so of course they can deal easily with three weapons and only two arms, and I don't mean by using a hidden third arm, of course!

Spoiler:

**NinthMusketeer**

tneva82 wrote:
Drakheart wrote:
My Warhammer is up for you to register ready for the app :

https://mywarhammer.com/

Registered, but still waiting on the verification e-mail to arrive despite hitting resend a few times. Looks like teething troubles with the site as trying to return to the homepage gives an error!

Yeah. Hopefully GW doesn't try to push their app as some sort of tournament scoring system as well in future. Dread to imagine how badly their servers would cope with it...

Best Coast Pairings shouldn't be a high bar to exceed...