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As for Chapter Approved 2021, I expect it to return to it's usual December release date.
Question is which December
a book in December 2020 makes no sense it would go into printing now
and December 2021 makes it 1.5 years until we get any corrections to the failures of the release
Since we already have the Chapter Approved for 2020, it would be for December 2021.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
General Kroll wrote: Don’t understand why people are getting so wound up about PL. If you don’t personally play PL games, what does it matter?
Oh and I haven’t used points since seventh edition. Not everyone are hyper competitive tournament players.
Or just...the vast majority of people who play 40k?
last poll on dakka was pretty in favour of pts.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
As for Chapter Approved 2021, I expect it to return to it's usual December release date.
Question is which December
a book in December 2020 makes no sense it would go into printing now
and December 2021 makes it 1.5 years until we get any corrections to the failures of the release
Since we're referring to CA2021, the question of which December pretty much solves itself.
2020 isn't workable, as that already exists and releases in 3 days, and as you note, there wouldn't be time to get it done before this December.
General Kroll wrote: Don’t understand why people are getting so wound up about PL. If you don’t personally play PL games, what does it matter?
Because several things in the ruleset rely on PL, even if you don't use them for army building. Reinforcements, for example. Its worth knowing if reserving your big unit of bikers is going to cost you 2 CP or 3 to bring on the table.
Oh and I haven’t used points since seventh edition. Not everyone are hyper competitive tournament players.
That's... nice to know, I guess? Its a complete non-sequitur, since people who aren't 'hyper competitive tournament players' have been using points in 40k since 1989 or so. (There was a points formula in the original RT rulebook). And points based army lists swiftly followed.
I mentioned it because there seem to be people here who are ignorant of the fact that plenty of people DO play using PL. I’d be happy playing using either system, but most people I know can’t be arsed to spend time squeezing every last point out of a list. We aren’t too bothered about balance aside from a vague need for us not to be overwhelmingly one sided.
General Kroll wrote: Don’t understand why people are getting so wound up about PL. If you don’t personally play PL games, what does it matter?
Oh and I haven’t used points since seventh edition. Not everyone are hyper competitive tournament players.
Or just...the vast majority of people who play 40k?
last poll on dakka was pretty in favour of pts.
40K players on dakka ≠ majority of people who play 40K.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
As for Chapter Approved 2021, I expect it to return to it's usual December release date.
Question is which December
a book in December 2020 makes no sense it would go into printing now
and December 2021 makes it 1.5 years until we get any corrections to the failures of the release
Since we already have the Chapter Approved for 2020, it would be for December 2021.
I don’t know why people are assuming GW is going to follow the old 8th edition Chapter approved and point adjustment timeline...
Since CA2020 comes out this july I would think GW just flipped the updated so instead of a spring points faq it will just get moved to November/December. And we get a new CA2021 next June/July...
This point adjustment algorithm was kind of a mess and completely looks like it was pushed thru when it wasn’t ready and it’s going to need a lot of adjustments to fix it. GW will just charge us for it in a winter faq with some extra crusade missions thrown in
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/22 18:50:15
As for Chapter Approved 2021, I expect it to return to it's usual December release date.
Question is which December
a book in December 2020 makes no sense it would go into printing now
and December 2021 makes it 1.5 years until we get any corrections to the failures of the release
Since we already have the Chapter Approved for 2020, it would be for December 2021.
I don’t know why people are assuming GW is going to follow the old 8th edition Chapter approved and point adjustment timeline...
Since CA2020 comes out this july I would think GW just flipped the updated so instead of a spring points faq it will just get moved to November/December. And we get a new CA2021 next June/July...
This point adjustment algorithm was kind of a mess and completely looks like it was pushed thru when it wasn’t ready and it’s going to need a lot of adjustments to fix it. GW will just charge us for it in a winter faq with some extra crusade missions thrown in
Because leaving it as a July release has it too close to the General's Handbook release. It makes more sense to move the Chapter Approved release back to December for 2021 as it will (potentially) give them some feedback from the early year conventions like the Las Vegas Open, AdeptiCon, etc.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
The free rules pdf and power levels are obviously there for beginners and casual players who just want a basic game, and fast. Charging for those would be a sure way to drive away such custom.
As for Chapter Approved 2021, I expect it to return to it's usual December release date.
Question is which December
a book in December 2020 makes no sense it would go into printing now
and December 2021 makes it 1.5 years until we get any corrections to the failures of the release
Since we're referring to CA2021, the question of which December pretty much solves itself.
2020 isn't workable, as that already exists and releases in 3 days, and as you note, there wouldn't be time to get it done before this December.
General Kroll wrote: Don’t understand why people are getting so wound up about PL. If you don’t personally play PL games, what does it matter?
Because several things in the ruleset rely on PL, even if you don't use them for army building. Reinforcements, for example. Its worth knowing if reserving your big unit of bikers is going to cost you 2 CP or 3 to bring on the table.
Oh and I haven’t used points since seventh edition. Not everyone are hyper competitive tournament players.
That's... nice to know, I guess? Its a complete non-sequitur, since people who aren't 'hyper competitive tournament players' have been using points in 40k since 1989 or so. (There was a points formula in the original RT rulebook). And points based army lists swiftly followed.
I mentioned it because there seem to be people here who are ignorant of the fact that plenty of people DO play using PL. I’d be happy playing using either system, but most people I know can’t be arsed to spend time squeezing every last point out of a list. We aren’t too bothered about balance aside from a vague need for us not to be overwhelmingly one sided.
Which is fine? But you specifically asked why people cared, and there is actually an answer- various rules sections use PL.
And then you followed up not with 'my buddies and I do fine without points' but with blather about 'hypercompetitive,' which rather gave the impression of 'stop liking things I don't like'
General Kroll wrote: Don’t understand why people are getting so wound up about PL. If you don’t personally play PL games, what does it matter?
Oh and I haven’t used points since seventh edition. Not everyone are hyper competitive tournament players.
Or just...the vast majority of people who play 40k?
last poll on dakka was pretty in favour of pts.
40K players on dakka ≠ majority of people who play 40K.
People throw this around a lot. Is there any real evidence or indications that it is true?
The fact that the vast majority of players still ask "What's Dakka?" when someone mentions Dakka offline.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
General Kroll wrote: Don’t understand why people are getting so wound up about PL. If you don’t personally play PL games, what does it matter?
Oh and I haven’t used points since seventh edition. Not everyone are hyper competitive tournament players.
Or just...the vast majority of people who play 40k?
last poll on dakka was pretty in favour of pts.
40K players on dakka ≠ majority of people who play 40K.
People throw this around a lot. Is there any real evidence or indications that it is true?
Since there isn't any way to survey the majority, no. And only entity that could even partially (because many people don't play only in GW stores or events) do so is GW, and they never tried.
For it to be really true, you'd have to accept that people who used to play 40k before PL was a thing stopped playing in the manner they were used to, and new players never had any contact with people who kept playing the way they used to, and never tried points themselves.
At best 'how people play' is a complete unknown.
Edit: I'm presuming the question is about points vs PL, not dakka is smaller than the majority, because I can't see why anyone would care about the latter (or not come to the obvious conclusion about a subset)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/22 20:07:32
General Kroll wrote: Don’t understand why people are getting so wound up about PL. If you don’t personally play PL games, what does it matter?
Oh and I haven’t used points since seventh edition. Not everyone are hyper competitive tournament players.
Or just...the vast majority of people who play 40k?
last poll on dakka was pretty in favour of pts.
40K players on dakka ≠ majority of people who play 40K.
I never claimed so, i just Pointed out that most of dakka , hence the responses , will favour pts
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
People throw this around a lot. Is there any real evidence or indications that it is true?
How many people are on Dakka? How many are 40k players?
We may not know for sure how many play 40k, but surely we know how many people are on Dakka at least, and if it doesn't reach some plausible looking number we can probably discount them being the majority straight away.
I've seen a few guesses at number of 40k players worldwide, and they are just guesses extrapolated from what facts we do supposedly know, and the lowest guess seems to be several hundred thousand.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/22 20:14:48
People throw this around a lot. Is there any real evidence or indications that it is true?
Let me put it this way; I've been told to shut up and go away from various tactica-threads because I advocated units and tactics that was less competitive than different units and tactics.
The average competitiveness among Dakkadakka-users is way higher than the average competitiveness of 40k-players in general.
I've honestly been to tournaments where the participants where less competitive (excluding the handful of people who where there to WAAC and nothing else.)
I can't prove it, but I'd be willing to bet everything I own on that being the case.
General Kroll wrote: Don’t understand why people are getting so wound up about PL. If you don’t personally play PL games, what does it matter?
Oh and I haven’t used points since seventh edition. Not everyone are hyper competitive tournament players.
Or just...the vast majority of people who play 40k?
last poll on dakka was pretty in favour of pts.
40K players on dakka ≠ majority of people who play 40K.
That's fallacy sir or ma'am. Everyone knows that the 2 or 3 dozen regular posters to Dakka represent the voices of millions of players worldwide.
You must be new to this forum. LOL.
Impressive show of Skill in ignoring answers given and misrepresentation.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
As for Chapter Approved 2021, I expect it to return to it's usual December release date.
Question is which December
a book in December 2020 makes no sense it would go into printing now
and December 2021 makes it 1.5 years until we get any corrections to the failures of the release
Since we're referring to CA2021, the question of which December pretty much solves itself.
2020 isn't workable, as that already exists and releases in 3 days, and as you note, there wouldn't be time to get it done before this December.
General Kroll wrote: Don’t understand why people are getting so wound up about PL. If you don’t personally play PL games, what does it matter?
Because several things in the ruleset rely on PL, even if you don't use them for army building. Reinforcements, for example. Its worth knowing if reserving your big unit of bikers is going to cost you 2 CP or 3 to bring on the table.
Oh and I haven’t used points since seventh edition. Not everyone are hyper competitive tournament players.
That's... nice to know, I guess? Its a complete non-sequitur, since people who aren't 'hyper competitive tournament players' have been using points in 40k since 1989 or so. (There was a points formula in the original RT rulebook). And points based army lists swiftly followed.
I mentioned it because there seem to be people here who are ignorant of the fact that plenty of people DO play using PL. I’d be happy playing using either system, but most people I know can’t be arsed to spend time squeezing every last point out of a list. We aren’t too bothered about balance aside from a vague need for us not to be overwhelmingly one sided.
Which is fine? But you specifically asked why people cared, and there is actually an answer- various rules sections use PL.
And then you followed up not with 'my buddies and I do fine without points' but with blather about 'hypercompetitive,' which rather gave the impression of 'stop liking things I don't like'
That really wasn’t my intention. But I was seeing a lot of people getting pissy because GW had the audacity to give away the PL changes for free. People need to chill out.
Almost none uses PL so putting them out there for free isn't losing them bank and lets their shills go, "s-see! The old GW would never give anything out for free! What do you mean it's useless? Literally everyone I know uses PL!"
Or their entire campaign ruleset is based on PL so would be a bit weird not to update it? I love that calling people a shill is the new cool kids term for white knight, what a time to be alive people have to try and be so edgy.
A Shill isn't the same as a White Knight. Check the definition of Shill.
Shill: "an accomplice of a confidence trickster or swindler who poses as a genuine customer to entice or encourage others." Via Oxford dictionary.
White knight via Colins dictionary: "A white knight is a person or an organization that rescues a company from difficulties such as financial problems or an unwelcome takeover bid."
So in context for these forums a white knight is someone buying GW stock to prevent them going under and a shill is someone who financially benefits convincing others to buy from GW.
Well done Dakka on using out of context terminology.
White Knight is a term popularized by the alt right to use to dismiss men defending women from their hateful misogyny, taken from the original idea of white knight as described above and the old school nerd culture of knights protecting ladies itself taken from chivalric literature.
It was then shifting to be a dismissal of any sorts of defense of something and slowly shifted out of being a mostly right wing dog whistle, though its roots in that stick around the term like a fething terrible smell and it still will be used in this context. The more modern popular term though is simp, itself stolen by the right from black culture and now undergoing the process of filtering into general internet slang. In five years, people on dakka will be talking about how others are simping for GW.
The phenomena can be somewhat troubling because the shifts don't ever fully move it away from the bigotry and general usage indicates an unconscious increased acceptance for the bigoted concepts behind it.
People throw this around a lot. Is there any real evidence or indications that it is true?
Let me put it this way; I've been told to shut up and go away from various tactica-threads because I advocated units and tactics that was less competitive than different units and tactics.
The average competitiveness among Dakkadakka-users is way higher than the average competitiveness of 40k-players in general.
I've honestly been to tournaments where the participants where less competitive (excluding the handful of people who where there to WAAC and nothing else.)
I can't prove it, but I'd be willing to bet everything I own on that being the case.
lol, that wasn't why. You might have gotten some pretty vehement disagreements from people in the tactics threads for advocating less popular units and strategies, but 'shut up and go away' is almost exclusively a response to conduct, not ideas.
I would find it hard to believe that Dakkanaughts were not, on average, more serious/competitive than the 40k population as a whole. Because that sub-segment is more likely to be on a forum for discussing the game (something we see with games in general). BUT I would not be surprised if there was a bigger difference between US and EU in competitive culture than overall vs Dakka. US culture is very strong in promoting a competitive mentality.
General Kroll wrote: Don’t understand why people are getting so wound up about PL. If you don’t personally play PL games, what does it matter?
Oh and I haven’t used points since seventh edition. Not everyone are hyper competitive tournament players.
Or just...the vast majority of people who play 40k?
last poll on dakka was pretty in favour of pts.
40K players on dakka ≠ majority of people who play 40K.
That's fallacy sir or ma'am. Everyone knows that the 2 or 3 dozen regular posters to Dakka represent the voices of millions of players worldwide.
You must be new to this forum. LOL.
Impressive show of Skill in ignoring answers given and misrepresentation.
Was agreeing with the poster who said 40k players on dakka do not equal the majority of 40k players worldwide. Dakka polls only represent the opinions of people on Dakka. Opinions stated by people on Dakka only represent people on Dakka. I'm not saying that isn't true. I'm being snarky and a smartass in saying that, in my experience on this forum, SOME people on Dakka are of the opinion that their opinion of the game is shared by ALL 40k players. I've even seen phrases thrown around like "Nobody uses PL" or "40k players hate the terrain rules in 9th edition".
As a Demons player PL does affect me. If the PL goes up for my Daemon units it means less I can summon (and yes, I do use summoning rules even though, again according to Dakka, summoning sucks). If the PL goes down it means more bang for my troubles. Also, strategic reserves as a whole use PL now. So that will affect anyone who intends to use SR in 9th.
stratigo wrote: White Knight is a term popularized by the alt right to use to dismiss men defending women from their hateful misogyny...
No. No. A thousand times no. White Knight has been used at Dakka long before the words "alt-right" ever crept onto the Internet.
Don't try to make this a left/right political thing when it's not.
It's really easy to tell who did and didn't grow up with the early internet. Back in my day we used IRC, Usenet and BBS over 28k dial up and we liked it!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/22 22:25:00
stratigo wrote: White Knight is a term popularized by the alt right to use to dismiss men defending women from their hateful misogyny...
No. No. A thousand times no. White Knight has been used at Dakka long before the words "alt-right" ever crept onto the Internet.
Don't try to make this a left/right political thing when it's not.
It's really easy to tell who did and didn't grow up with the early internet. Back in my day we used IRC, Usenet and BBS over 28k dial up and we liked it!
28k? Luxury! I used a 300 baud acoustic modem where you dialed the phone and put it in the cradle. If you wanted to see pictures on the internet, you got them in ASCII art.
More on topic, I do think Dakka is a slice of the more competitive side of the hobby. People happy playing floorhammer rarely come here to find ways to optimize their lists.
Nevelon wrote: More on topic, I do think Dakka is a slice of the more competitive side of the hobby. People happy playing floorhammer rarely come here to find ways to optimize their lists.
Well, there are also lore and painting sections. YMDC and rules aren't the only thing people come here too.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Nevelon wrote: More on topic, I do think Dakka is a slice of the more competitive side of the hobby. People happy playing floorhammer rarely come here to find ways to optimize their lists.
I tend to agree. My standard method of making lists (pick a unit I like, see if I can build a list around it, and almost never take the same list twice) is a kind of anathema to the way things are done here.
But at the same time I'm not about to claim that points, something that has been intrinsic to 40k for decades now, is something that only "competitive" players use, as some people here continue to imply/outright state.
As for Chapter Approved 2021, I expect it to return to it's usual December release date.
Question is which December
a book in December 2020 makes no sense it would go into printing now
and December 2021 makes it 1.5 years until we get any corrections to the failures of the release
Since we already have the Chapter Approved for 2020, it would be for December 2021.
I don’t know why people are assuming GW is going to follow the old 8th edition Chapter approved and point adjustment timeline...
Since CA2020 comes out this july I would think GW just flipped the updated so instead of a spring points faq it will just get moved to November/December. And we get a new CA2021 next June/July...
This point adjustment algorithm was kind of a mess and completely looks like it was pushed thru when it wasn’t ready and it’s going to need a lot of adjustments to fix it. GW will just charge us for it in a winter faq with some extra crusade missions thrown in
Because leaving it as a July release has it too close to the General's Handbook release. It makes more sense to move the Chapter Approved release back to December for 2021 as it will (potentially) give them some feedback from the early year conventions like the Las Vegas Open, AdeptiCon, etc.
That didn’t prevent them from doing it this year...
It also makes more sense releasing a chapter approved in June or July as that’s when they do thier summer campaign push.
I don’t beleive GW has any intentions of following thier old timetable sorry
Nevelon wrote: More on topic, I do think Dakka is a slice of the more competitive side of the hobby. People happy playing floorhammer rarely come here to find ways to optimize their lists.
Well, there are also lore and painting sections. YMDC and rules aren't the only thing people come here too.
If you want to be a better painter, there are a lot of other avenues to improve. If you want to know more about the fluff, you read more BL books. If you want to up your game, you come to places like this. Not to imply absolutes. There are all sorts of people who do things for all kinda of reasons. I just think that the more competitive end of the spectrum will tend to gravitate to forums like this. Obviously, our community is wide and varied. I’m a casual player myself.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I tend to agree. My standard method of making lists (pick a unit I like, see if I can build a list around it, and almost never take the same list twice) is a kind of anathema to the way things are done here.
But at the same time I'm not about to claim that points, something that has been intrinsic to 40k for decades now, is something that only "competitive" players use, as some people here continue to imply/outright state.
I’m pretty casual, and I think I played one game with power levels. It was fine for a tossed together last minute thing. I like the granularity of points. Both systems have issues, but points are the old comfortable way.
My top priority in list building is getting new paint to the table. I’ll wrap a theme around that and work it up into a TAC list.
5500 pts 
6500 pts 
7000 pts 
9000 pts 
13.000 pts 
Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 16k+ 
4k 
4k Points
Competition Index
