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2020/10/14 14:29:31
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Nurglitch wrote: Has anyone figured out how the new Resurrection Protocols is supposed to work?
Yes, its actually explained quite clearly in the book.
A unit gets shot at. You roll for RP afterwards. For each lost wound you roll a die. On a 5+ you get a wound back, and apply it to models. If you get enough successes to restore a model to full health it avoids death. If you don't have enough successes it stays dead. Unlike in 8th ed, dead models do not have a chance to come back later. That I admit they could have been clearer on, but if you look at the other abilities that buff / supplement RP it becomes clearer.
So it's basically FNP, but doesn't work if the number of unsaved wounds is equal or greater than the number of wounds left on the unit?
It's FNP but:
Doesn't work if the number of unsaved wounds is equal or greater than the number of wounds left on the unit
Works if you roll a number of successes equal to the model's W value rather than the weapon's Damage
2020/10/14 14:36:55
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Nurglitch wrote: Has anyone figured out how the new Resurrection Protocols is supposed to work?
Yes, its actually explained quite clearly in the book.
A unit gets shot at. You roll for RP afterwards. For each lost wound you roll a die. On a 5+ you get a wound back, and apply it to models. If you get enough successes to restore a model to full health it avoids death. If you don't have enough successes it stays dead. Unlike in 8th ed, dead models do not have a chance to come back later. That I admit they could have been clearer on, but if you look at the other abilities that buff / supplement RP it becomes clearer.
So it's basically FNP, but doesn't work if the number of unsaved wounds is equal or greater than the number of wounds left on the unit?
Not really, no. RP doesn't care how much damage was inflicted on a single model, it just cares how many wounds are on their profile when you try to reanimate. So you could do 6 Damage to a Warrior but he still gets up on a 5+, whereas if it was a FNP you'd need to pass all 6 5+ rolls to stay alive. RP is really good for single-wound models and pretty decent on W2 units, but pretty terrible for things like Destroyers with W3.
2020/10/14 15:12:53
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
I hope this isn't off topic, but asking for a friend. Are the necrons in the 10 man box different from those in the recruit box? Because we aren't sure if it is an error or something, because the box of warriors costs 140 here, while the recruit box that has the hero+warriors, and all the marines costs 150. Are the recruit boxs on limited short time order too or did GW give the wrong price for 10 warriors.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2020/10/14 15:15:46
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Karol wrote: I hope this isn't off topic, but asking for a friend. Are the necrons in the 10 man box different from those in the recruit box? Because we aren't sure if it is an error or something, because the box of warriors costs 140 here, while the recruit box that has the hero+warriors, and all the marines costs 150. Are the recruit boxs on limited short time order too or did GW give the wrong price for 10 warriors.
Eh its more that GW has a long term product - Warriors in a box - priced up at the same time as they've a short term discount product - the starter sets. Heck even without the starters there's a lot of Indomitus stuff still kicking around (and likely to be more once the second wave hits). So there's plenty of cheap warriors.
GW does the same with DEATH in that there's a getting started set that's only a few £ more than a single model included in the site which they also sell on its own.
but yep the warriors in the box are the very same pushfit designs with scarabs. No difference, its just odd pricing.
Okey thanks. You guys saved my friend a lot of money.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2020/10/14 16:26:45
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Karol wrote: Okey thanks. You guys saved my friend a lot of money.
Right now if I were (ok I am) getting necrons I'd be on facebook/forums/ebay for half splits of Indomitus to get things. Right now you can get a whole Indomitus Necron half for the same or less than two boxes of warriors from GW. Heck even if you just want the warriors alone the split set is worth it and you get some spare parts/extra models on top which you can use for spares or sell on.
Basically right now is the time to be dealing secondhand not new with regard to Necron stuff - at least for anything in Indomitus. Sure fastforward and in 12 months chances are most of that stock will be long gone, so it won't be like this forever.
yukishiro1 wrote: I think it's a pretty safe bet that Space Marines getting <CORE> on essentially the whole army is just another case of the protagonist faction getting to ignore the rules everyone else plays by. Xenos in particular I'm sure will still have very restrictive <CORE> lists because, well, NPC faction syndrome and all that.
The only inconsistency concerning CORE for Marines and CORE for Necrons is that the Centurion by the standards they're obviously operating with should have it.
All the Marines that are CORE are so because they are all some variation of dudes in the open field. Infantry, bikers, and dreadnoughts whose metal frame essentially is their body. They are core because all can be directly coordinated by a Spess Mehreen commander.
The Necron units that are CORE are all of the units the Necron nobility can directly coordinate. So just warriors, immortal, deathmark, tomb blades, and lych guard. Destroyers and Flayed Ones are insane, and Canoptek are mindless and working within the pre-set parameters of their design.
It makes perfect sense that Eradicators are CORE, even if it's bad for game balance, just like it makes perfect sense that flayed ones aren't core, even if it would be fine for balance.
The mistake is in assuming that GW designated units as core according to game balance; with the exception of Centurions they didn't, it was a narrative decision. What "feels" right. Because 40k is a narrative game.
I don't like it very much myself, but there isn't any double standard that benefits Marines. The one time they went against that obvious design philosophy was in a hamfisted attempt to gut the Centurion.
Oh I understand the reasons WHY. It just doesn't stop it from feeling really crappy from a game standpoint, to the point where I think it should have been handled differently.
One faction get a broad selection of "elite" and even "rare" units being marked as Core, and another faction doesn't. That's how it manifests at the end of the day, regardless of justification, and it looks kinda crappy. When you add that to the Relics, Supplements, Warlord Traits, etc. It's just a bad look overall. Like, are Relic Terminators "Core"? There's a dissonance to that, especially when Necron Destroyers are far more numerous/common/whatever.
Karol wrote: Okey thanks. You guys saved my friend a lot of money.
Right now if I were (ok I am) getting necrons I'd be on facebook/forums/ebay for half splits of Indomitus to get things. Right now you can get a whole Indomitus Necron half for the same or less than two boxes of warriors from GW. Heck even if you just want the warriors alone the split set is worth it and you get some spare parts/extra models on top which you can use for spares or sell on.
Basically right now is the time to be dealing secondhand not new with regard to Necron stuff - at least for anything in Indomitus. Sure fastforward and in 12 months chances are most of that stock will be long gone, so it won't be like this forever.
That's exactly what I'm doing. Not even actively playing, just grabbing some for the off chance that I feel like throwing together a traditional looking Cron Army.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/14 17:21:16
Karol wrote: Okey thanks. You guys saved my friend a lot of money.
Right now if I were (ok I am) getting necrons I'd be on facebook/forums/ebay for half splits of Indomitus to get things. Right now you can get a whole Indomitus Necron half for the same or less than two boxes of warriors from GW. Heck even if you just want the warriors alone the split set is worth it and you get some spare parts/extra models on top which you can use for spares or sell on.
Basically right now is the time to be dealing secondhand not new with regard to Necron stuff - at least for anything in Indomitus. Sure fastforward and in 12 months chances are most of that stock will be long gone, so it won't be like this forever.
I was checking Ebay not too long ago, and it already looks like stock from Indomitus is starting to get thin and prices are going up.
So, it’s a rare thing that I weigh in on unit comparisons. Generally, I’m an adherent to the Rule of Cool, and simply taking whatever tickles your fancy, and a pox upon list efficiency.
But.....Doomsday Ark vs Canoptek Doomestalker.....
I just cannot conceive of taking the ark over the Canoptek.
Same primary weapon, and the Canoptek is far far easier to hide when we need to. Yes, it’s tall. But the Ark is seriously, seriously long.
BS is the main difference so far as I can see?
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Karol wrote: Okey thanks. You guys saved my friend a lot of money.
Right now if I were (ok I am) getting necrons I'd be on facebook/forums/ebay for half splits of Indomitus to get things. Right now you can get a whole Indomitus Necron half for the same or less than two boxes of warriors from GW. Heck even if you just want the warriors alone the split set is worth it and you get some spare parts/extra models on top which you can use for spares or sell on.
Basically right now is the time to be dealing secondhand not new with regard to Necron stuff - at least for anything in Indomitus. Sure fastforward and in 12 months chances are most of that stock will be long gone, so it won't be like this forever.
I was checking Ebay not too long ago, and it already looks like stock from Indomitus is starting to get thin and prices are going up.
The UK price appears to have jumped after the codex dropped - to be expected. That siad there's a bulk seller on there with a LOT of kits that was at £45 and is now at £65. So there's some of that going on where there's jsut a few power-sellers making prices look like they are making a mass rise/fall. That said iwth the prices of models in the set now being known its no surprise that the secondhand prices are going to creep up. That and demand will rise with the codex out and stocks steadily diminish.
I'd wager perhaps a small spike of lower prices when the secondwave hits and then a gradual decline. Of course different countries might well react faster/slower.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: So, it’s a rare thing that I weigh in on unit comparisons. Generally, I’m an adherent to the Rule of Cool, and simply taking whatever tickles your fancy, and a pox upon list efficiency.
But.....Doomsday Ark vs Canoptek Doomestalker.....
I just cannot conceive of taking the ark over the Canoptek.
Same primary weapon, and the Canoptek is far far easier to hide when we need to. Yes, it’s tall. But the Ark is seriously, seriously long.
BS is the main difference so far as I can see?
BS, quantum shielding, More wounds, FLY and the Flayer Arrays. You generally want to be moving the ark and using the Flayer Arrays to get the most out of it. It's much easier to reposition if you need it as well.
yukishiro1 wrote: I think it's a pretty safe bet that Space Marines getting <CORE> on essentially the whole army is just another case of the protagonist faction getting to ignore the rules everyone else plays by. Xenos in particular I'm sure will still have very restrictive <CORE> lists because, well, NPC faction syndrome and all that.
The only inconsistency concerning CORE for Marines and CORE for Necrons is that the Centurion by the standards they're obviously operating with should have it.
All the Marines that are CORE are so because they are all some variation of dudes in the open field. Infantry, bikers, and dreadnoughts whose metal frame essentially is their body. They are core because all can be directly coordinated by a Spess Mehreen commander.
The Necron units that are CORE are all of the units the Necron nobility can directly coordinate. So just warriors, immortal, deathmark, tomb blades, and lych guard. Destroyers and Flayed Ones are insane, and Canoptek are mindless and working within the pre-set parameters of their design.
It makes perfect sense that Eradicators are CORE, even if it's bad for game balance, just like it makes perfect sense that flayed ones aren't core, even if it would be fine for balance.
The mistake is in assuming that GW designated units as core according to game balance; with the exception of Centurions they didn't, it was a narrative decision. What "feels" right. Because 40k is a narrative game.
I don't like it very much myself, but there isn't any double standard that benefits Marines. The one time they went against that obvious design philosophy was in a hamfisted attempt to gut the Centurion.
Oh I understand the reasons WHY. It just doesn't stop it from feeling really crappy from a game standpoint, to the point where I think it should have been handled differently.
One faction get a broad selection of "elite" and even "rare" units being marked as Core, and another faction doesn't. That's how it manifests at the end of the day, regardless of justification, and it looks kinda crappy. When you add that to the Relics, Supplements, Warlord Traits, etc. It's just a bad look overall. Like, are Relic Terminators "Core"? There's a dissonance to that, especially when Necron Destroyers are far more numerous/common/whatever.
it's not rarity so much as how they interact. what's more "core" A space Marine captain running forward and leading a charge of terminators, or a buncha necron destroyers hanging out with an Overlord?
Normal necrons don't like being AROUND destroyers IIRC they're basicly afraid they might catch something
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2020/10/15 03:18:44
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Argive wrote: Hush now.. wait and see.. nothing wrong.. its a all totaly balnced. We dont know enough.
Since you are still misrepresenting this, let me break it down for you one more time:
- "Wait and see" means you should stop getting your knickers twisted and panic post on Dakka about X being broken beyond comparison or DOA as it can be, based on rumours and previews. There is simply no reason for it.
- Now that both codizes are fully revealed, you are welcome to come to an informed conclusion and share your opinion on the balance of everything in those books and how it compares to the rest of the game.
I haven't seen any post refuting balance concerns with a "wait and see for [the next release]" afterwards anymore. If so, then that person refuting the points does not get "wait and see", either. In my opinion, anyway.
Indeed. when people say "wait and see" what they where saying is "wait until the codex is in your hands so that you're not just talking out of your ass"
judging a 40k codex based on the WHC previews is like proclaiming you 100% know the plot of a movie based on it's trailer
So what you are saying is.... Marines are okay because we only need to wait and see for other codexes to get released which will obviously be better designed than necrons was... amIright??
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
In my humble (and probably wrong) opinion, I think the design philosophy for marines is what it’s always been. Easy to get into and play for anyone getting into the hobby or has been playing the hobby for a while. They’re the jack-of-all-trades poster boiz.
This doesn’t excuse their power though, I’m not saying that. But I think that’s the intention behind how easy they are to plug and play compared to a Necron army, or other armies in general, who require more thought and planning and combos to reach the same ballpark of power.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/15 05:00:36
2020/10/15 05:33:16
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
I am really tired of this "Core" debate. Having more Core units doesn't automatically make your army better. Its not like Core units automatically have objective secured or help fill out a detachment. Its just a way to narrow/focus different abilities. Have you looked at quality of these ability instead of just who can benefit from them or should Space Marine players be complaining that their Techmarine can only D3 fix vehicles but a Necron CloakTech can D3 fix vehicles, bikes, anything Canoptek, Destroyers, other characters, and random infantry models with 2 or more wounds.
To those that say there is no stupid questions I say, "Is this a stupid question?"
2020/10/15 05:45:25
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
it's not rarity so much as how they interact. what's more "core" A space Marine captain running forward and leading a charge of terminators, or a buncha necron destroyers hanging out with an Overlord?
Normal necrons don't like being AROUND destroyers IIRC they're basicly afraid they might catch something
The problem, then, is that the space marine faction identity is based around winning games of 40k more easily.
2020/10/15 05:59:21
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
it's not rarity so much as how they interact. what's more "core" A space Marine captain running forward and leading a charge of terminators, or a buncha necron destroyers hanging out with an Overlord?
Normal necrons don't like being AROUND destroyers IIRC they're basicly afraid they might catch something
The problem, then, is that the space marine faction identity is based around winning games of 40k more easily.
so, do you know what rules affect core in both codices?
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2020/10/15 06:00:43
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Now that the new monolity is apparently going to be 170USD and the silent king is going to be 150USD do you think many of the new monolith models will be selling?
I just see the silent king as a better buy if i had to pick one.
"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..."
2020/10/15 06:24:21
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Matt Swain wrote: Now that the new monolity is apparently going to be 170USD and the silent king is going to be 150USD do you think many of the new monolith models will be selling?
I just see the silent king as a better buy if i had to pick one.
the only way the Monolith will sell is if they tweek detachments to enchourage people to be able to take a LOW. put a single LOW slot in a battalion and it'll be a bit tempting to take that and then a supreme command detachment with the SK
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2020/10/15 06:26:14
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Matt Swain wrote: Now that the new monolity is apparently going to be 170USD and the silent king is going to be 150USD do you think many of the new monolith models will be selling?
I just see the silent king as a better buy if i had to pick one.
the only way the Monolith will sell is if they tweek detachments to enchourage people to be able to take a LOW. put a single LOW slot in a battalion and it'll be a bit tempting to take that and then a supreme command detachment with the SK
Nah, it's fine, they'll just FAQ-nerf everything else until it sells.
2020/10/15 06:42:27
Subject: Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
yukishiro1 wrote: I think it's a pretty safe bet that Space Marines getting <CORE> on essentially the whole army is just another case of the protagonist faction getting to ignore the rules everyone else plays by. Xenos in particular I'm sure will still have very restrictive <CORE> lists because, well, NPC faction syndrome and all that.
The only inconsistency concerning CORE for Marines and CORE for Necrons is that the Centurion by the standards they're obviously operating with should have it.
All the Marines that are CORE are so because they are all some variation of dudes in the open field. Infantry, bikers, and dreadnoughts whose metal frame essentially is their body. They are core because all can be directly coordinated by a Spess Mehreen commander.
The Necron units that are CORE are all of the units the Necron nobility can directly coordinate. So just warriors, immortal, deathmark, tomb blades, and lych guard. Destroyers and Flayed Ones are insane, and Canoptek are mindless and working within the pre-set parameters of their design.
It makes perfect sense that Eradicators are CORE, even if it's bad for game balance, just like it makes perfect sense that flayed ones aren't core, even if it would be fine for balance.
The mistake is in assuming that GW designated units as core according to game balance; with the exception of Centurions they didn't, it was a narrative decision. What "feels" right. Because 40k is a narrative game.
I don't like it very much myself, but there isn't any double standard that benefits Marines. The one time they went against that obvious design philosophy was in a hamfisted attempt to gut the Centurion.
Oh I understand the reasons WHY. It just doesn't stop it from feeling really crappy from a game standpoint, to the point where I think it should have been handled differently.
One faction get a broad selection of "elite" and even "rare" units being marked as Core, and another faction doesn't. That's how it manifests at the end of the day, regardless of justification, and it looks kinda crappy. When you add that to the Relics, Supplements, Warlord Traits, etc. It's just a bad look overall. Like, are Relic Terminators "Core"? There's a dissonance to that, especially when Necron Destroyers are far more numerous/common/whatever.
it's not rarity so much as how they interact. what's more "core" A space Marine captain running forward and leading a charge of terminators, or a buncha necron destroyers hanging out with an Overlord?
Normal necrons don't like being AROUND destroyers IIRC they're basicly afraid they might catch something
Like I said, I understand WHY. But looking at it from a game standpoint it looks bad.
Although if it's about who's hanging around the Overlord, you'd think Praetorians and Lychguard would have made the cut. . .
Matt Swain wrote: Now that the new monolity is apparently going to be 170USD and the silent king is going to be 150USD do you think many of the new monolith models will be selling?
I just see the silent king as a better buy if i had to pick one.
the only way the Monolith will sell is if they tweek detachments to enchourage people to be able to take a LOW. put a single LOW slot in a battalion and it'll be a bit tempting to take that and then a supreme command detachment with the SK
Even then i will not buy the monolith, because it has no FLY, and its nearly impossible to move it around the battlefield with its huge 130, or 160mm base. Cant end its movement on top of a fuel pipe, or barricade, because of unstable position. Has to subtract 2" from its movement when it moves across craters, fuel pipes, barricades, because of difficult ground. Cant move over/through a ruin.
2020/10/15 09:14:00
Subject: Re:Necron 9th edition general discussion thread.
Doesn't work if the number of unsaved wounds is equal or greater than the number of wounds left on the unit
4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
Eldar- 4436 pts
