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According to the new info on Battalion detachments in 9th, only Infantry units can get a dedicated transport in a Battalion.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/04/taking-command-of-your-pointsgw-homepage-post-1/

I like to run several elite units with their own dedicated transports (ex. Ork Tankbustas and Burna Boyz in Trukks). Now it looks I can’t if they are in a Battalion? Perhaps a Vanguard detachment would allow them their own transport but I don’t like this change.

Thoughts?

They have the INFANTRY keyword, so I don't see why you couldn't.

Ah, you’re right. I was confusing Infantry with Troops.

Edit: Mods, feel free to delete thread. Thanks.

Well it still is a good topic to talk about, DE could have done full Mech. My main playing force was 10 Raiders but only 5 Infantry units.

Rhinos died as a transport the moment they took fire points away. Transports overall died with the invention of not being able to disembark after it moved.

Yeah i don't understand that at all.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Rhinos died as a transport the moment they took fire points away. Transports overall died with the invention of not being able to disembark after it moved.

Sort of? The transports with important secondary functions (ex. Wave Serpent and Razorback as gunboats) still make it into lists, and when they do their ability to protect squishy units (Deathwatch squads, Dark Reapers, that kind of thing) from alpha strikes is still usable. So it might be more accurate to say that the APC is dead, but the IFV is on life support.

Really Rhinos died b.c they become to easy to kill with to weak of units to put in them, on top of no reason to put things in them.

If vehicles had a str limit to hurt them (so str4 and less does nothing to them) on top of Tac marines you might have seen Rhinos on the table.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Really Rhinos died b.c they become to easy to kill with to weak of units to put in them, on top of no reason to put things in them.

If vehicles had a str limit to hurt them (so str4 and less does nothing to them) on top of Tac marines you might have seen Rhinos on the table.

On the other hand impulsors are fantastic.

Rhinos just have bad rules. It has nothing to do with transports as a whole.

To be real, transports have always been wonky.

Pre-8E Rhino's were only ever popular when they were either free (at the end of 7E, and their transport utility was secondary), you could boost them with BA engines and charge out of them across the board turn 1 (early 3E), and when they were 35pts (50pts with Extra Armor) and ignored up to 5/6 glancing hits and 1/2 of Penetrating hits and had 4+ cover Smoke Launchers with Fire Points (5E). In 8E we've seen them used with double stormbolters as 72pt T7 W10 fire platforms at various points, but never really as effective Transports (at least in my experience).

For most Marine armies in 3E, pretty much the entirety of 4E and 6E and most of 7E, the utility or Rhinos was not great, and in some cases (e.g. 4E) they were simply deathtraps (as was the case for anything that wasn't a Skimmer).

Then we have the Chimera, that's only really been particularly functional and popular in one edition ever (5E), and on the opposite end of the spectrum stuff like Wave Serpents that are good in every edition.

A transport is only as good as the unit it protects.
Chaos Rhinos protecting havocs isn't too bad since the lose nothing upon disembarkation.

footfoe wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Really Rhinos died b.c they become to easy to kill with to weak of units to put in them, on top of no reason to put things in them.

If vehicles had a str limit to hurt them (so str4 and less does nothing to them) on top of Tac marines you might have seen Rhinos on the table.

On the other hand impulsors are fantastic.

Rhinos just have bad rules. It has nothing to do with transports as a whole.

If i played Marines i freaking would have 4-5 Impulsor's, i love them.

Overall it's a simple and logical rules change which makes sense.

However, all Transports need one thing to function as an actual transport: speed. While a couple (Wave Serpents are okayish) are suitably quick, most transports don't justify their points value when they only move 6" more than a normal infantry model. Either "Advancing" needs to change for vehicles, or you simply need Rhinos with an actual, genuine speed advantage over infantry. Back in 2nd edition most vehicles could end up around the 30" move area. Bring this back. Bump Rhinos to 18", Wave Serpents to 24", etc. etc. Make riding in one a feasible alternative to running across the field.

Turn 1 charges for melee armies is a stupid game design, but if you could zip up in one turn, pop smoke and be nearly guaranteed a charge on turn two...that's acceptable.

footfoe wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Really Rhinos died b.c they become to easy to kill with to weak of units to put in them, on top of no reason to put things in them.

If vehicles had a str limit to hurt them (so str4 and less does nothing to them) on top of Tac marines you might have seen Rhinos on the table.

On the other hand impulsors are fantastic.

Rhinos just have bad rules. It has nothing to do with transports as a whole.

Nothin wrong with the Rhino, it's a protective box around your dudes. At 7 ppw for T7 3+ they're tough enough. You don't buy Rhinos to work miracles. (Unless you manage to ram them into a Telemon or whatever and stop it from firing, lol)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elbows wrote:
Overall it's a simple and logical rules change which makes sense.

However, all Transports need one thing to function as an actual transport: speed. While a couple (Wave Serpents are okayish) are suitably quick, most transports don't justify their points value when they only move 6" more than a normal infantry model. Either "Advancing" needs to change for vehicles, or you simply need Rhinos with an actual, genuine speed advantage over infantry. Back in 2nd edition most vehicles could end up around the 30" move area. Bring this back. Bump Rhinos to 18", Wave Serpents to 24", etc. etc. Make riding in one a feasible alternative to running across the field.

Turn 1 charges for melee armies is a stupid game design, but if you could zip up in one turn, pop smoke and be nearly guaranteed a charge on turn two...that's acceptable.

Faster transports would make more sense, yeah. 30" was pretty fast for 2nd, but certainly having a Predator whipping around at 20+" was pretty cool.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Rhinos died as a transport the moment they took fire points away. Transports overall died with the invention of not being able to disembark after it moved.

Sort of? The transports with important secondary functions (ex. Wave Serpent and Razorback as gunboats) still make it into lists, and when they do their ability to protect squishy units (Deathwatch squads, Dark Reapers, that kind of thing) from alpha strikes is still usable. So it might be more accurate to say that the APC is dead, but the IFV is on life support.

The key point being, what were those vehicles really valued for? It was the guns. Protecting some units in minor circumstances was merely a bonus at times. At times is the key phrase.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Rhinos died as a transport the moment they took fire points away. Transports overall died with the invention of not being able to disembark after it moved.

Mortal wounds killed it for me on elites as well.

On the other hand, being able to charge on the same turn as disembarking has meant that I now use them in every game with my World Eaters.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

If i played Marines i freaking would have 4-5 Impulsor's, i love them.

Do you like the way they look? I've tried to 'appreciate' them for what they are, but the design still looks awful to me.

footfoe wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Really Rhinos died b.c they become to easy to kill with to weak of units to put in them, on top of no reason to put things in them.

If vehicles had a str limit to hurt them (so str4 and less does nothing to them) on top of Tac marines you might have seen Rhinos on the table.

On the other hand impulsors are fantastic.

Rhinos just have bad rules. It has nothing to do with transports as a whole.

Impulsors are the definitive example of Power explosion in Marines they are stupidly cheap for their rules.
10 points for all of the following
-2 to charges
Fly
And disembark after moving
1 T7 3+ Sv wound

All transports for melee units are also dead, unless they are also gunboats. Orks trukks are now taken only for a couple of shooting units like gitz and bustas.

Rhinos are dead because you can't shoot while inside, there are no assault oriented marines that are worth taking and all the new stuff can't ride in it anyway. Other SM vehicles with a transport capacity are not dead if they have effective weapons: even razorbacks and land raiders are still part of the game.

The possibility of deepstriking pretty much everything with little effort also doesn't help.

The tyranny of Repressors will continue!!!

Seriously though, Repressors are scary.

My repentia sure like their rhino's to get them faster toward enemy and some protection besides 5+++

Ice_can wrote:

footfoe wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Really Rhinos died b.c they become to easy to kill with to weak of units to put in them, on top of no reason to put things in them.

If vehicles had a str limit to hurt them (so str4 and less does nothing to them) on top of Tac marines you might have seen Rhinos on the table.

On the other hand impulsors are fantastic.

Rhinos just have bad rules. It has nothing to do with transports as a whole.

Impulsors are the definitive example of Power explosion in Marines they are stupidly cheap for their rules.
10 points for all of the following
-2 to charges
Fly
And disembark after moving
1 T7 3+ Sv wound

you forgot "reduce troop capacity by half" GW teeends to over value troop capacity in it's pointing.

BrianDavion wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

footfoe wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Really Rhinos died b.c they become to easy to kill with to weak of units to put in them, on top of no reason to put things in them.

If vehicles had a str limit to hurt them (so str4 and less does nothing to them) on top of Tac marines you might have seen Rhinos on the table.

On the other hand impulsors are fantastic.

Rhinos just have bad rules. It has nothing to do with transports as a whole.

Impulsors are the definitive example of Power explosion in Marines they are stupidly cheap for their rules.
10 points for all of the following
-2 to charges
Fly
And disembark after moving
1 T7 3+ Sv wound

you forgot "reduce troop capacity by half" GW teeends to over value troop capacity in it's pointing.

Well less models same number of wounds actually, which tends to net out as the same in GW speak. As 1 Terminator 2w = 2 powrr armour 1W models (charictors tend to be skipped over as their wounds are more plot armour.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Rhinos died as a transport the moment they took fire points away. Transports overall died with the invention of not being able to disembark after it moved.

Sort of? The transports with important secondary functions (ex. Wave Serpent and Razorback as gunboats) still make it into lists, and when they do their ability to protect squishy units (Deathwatch squads, Dark Reapers, that kind of thing) from alpha strikes is still usable. So it might be more accurate to say that the APC is dead, but the IFV is on life support.

The key point being, what were those vehicles really valued for? It was the guns. Protecting some units in minor circumstances was merely a bonus at times. At times is the key phrase.

Sure, I won't turn down more shooting, but that was NOT the point of having Wave Serpents in my wraithguard/Fire Dragon heavy Eldar lists. My two favorite Eldar units with their short range guns absolutely benefited nearly every game from transport.
I haven't played either here in 8th, & infact don't even own a current Eldar codex, but unless they got a range increase I imagine they'd still benefit. Now weather the Wave Serpent could survive being shot at for a turn in this edition = ?? And come 9th???

Ice_can wrote:

footfoe wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Really Rhinos died b.c they become to easy to kill with to weak of units to put in them, on top of no reason to put things in them.

If vehicles had a str limit to hurt them (so str4 and less does nothing to them) on top of Tac marines you might have seen Rhinos on the table.

On the other hand impulsors are fantastic.

Rhinos just have bad rules. It has nothing to do with transports as a whole.

Impulsors are the definitive example of Power explosion in Marines they are stupidly cheap for their rules.
10 points for all of the following
-2 to charges
Fly
And disembark after moving
1 T7 3+ Sv wound

Pretty much this, if it didn't have fly it would be a no. But for me Fly put it over the top and i love them for it. I don't play Marines and i keep thinking about getting them just for this vehicle.

But I would play SW over pure Marines honestly.

I actually took advantage of 8th edition ruling. I'd take 3 Nightspinners which then allowed me to take 3 Wave Serpents. RIP this version of mechdar, haha. It will morph yet again.

FWIW I like Rhino's, and they have been surprisingly robust in my games. They are wimpy enough that opponents dont usually sacrifice their heavier firepower against them, and I always pop smoke when I move them into a position where they are within small arms range band. Next turn, my tac squad is in rapid fire range with a full model count, not superb but okay.

Then again, I am one of those "narrative" players

tauist wrote:
FWIW I like Rhino's, and they have been surprisingly robust in my games. They are wimpy enough that opponents dont usually sacrifice their heavier firepower against them, and I always pop smoke when I move them into a position where they are within small arms range band. Next turn, my tac squad is in rapid fire range with a full model count, not superb but okay.

Then again, I am one of those "narrative" players

I had a Rhino rush SoB army (Well i had everything possible for them, 130+ models, 12 vehicles, etc..) when the Beta for SoB let you 4++ and +3" movement all your Rhino i was in heaven. It really wasn't OP, but it felt good. That is what Rhino's needed IMO, so all these stupid rr's hits/wounds/D's from stupid attacks can't kill 2-3 a turn.

After the book came out (Sold my army after a couple games b.c its all OOP), rhinos became worthless, i could instead just put 100 girls on the table with a 4++ and it was over all more wounds and better. I just advanced turn 1.

Rhinos and other cheap transports are phenomenal. They hide your fragile but offensively powerfull units inside and then spend the rest of the game just ramming into things to stop them from firing or just be a pain on the ass. Most enemies will ignore empty rhinos because who would waste shoots with them? But if they ignore them, then they are extremely annoying. And if they shoot at the empty rhinos instead of shooting at better units well. Even better.

But yeah Repulsors are Rhinos++