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Hi

The 9th ed 300+ page thread is impressive but also there is a lot side conversation.

Looking at the rules :
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/02/free-core-rules-new-models-sighted/

It is fair assessment that there have not been that many "huge" changes. A lot of the things seem pretty much the same. I am only just now getting the time to read through these.
I would like to create a list of key differences people have spotted. Divided into two categories:

The obvious ones which have been previewed:

-Command phase/ CP structure
- Terrain Rules - Obscuring etc
- Terrain - Difficult terrain is back and it subtracts 2" from movemnt
- Morale
- Unit coherency
- Engagement range
- Big Guns never Tire
- Charging has to reach all of the declared against or charge fails
- Hit AND wound modifiers are capped at +/- 1
- Character targeting rules - Look out sir


Other non previewed changes

- Psykers can no longer manifest psychic powers after Falling back
- Units with Fly cannot shoot if fall back as far as I can see
- Psykers now resolve all of their powers at once and you cannot go back to a psyker once hes finished manifesting powers and you have moved on
- Rerolls are applied before modifiers. Unmodified dice are explicitly defined- result of roll after rerolls, but before modifiers (if any of either)
- Disembark now wholly within 3"
- Spindly bits now part of hull measurements to be "within"
- Smite has no restrictions other than the 'can't go back to a psyker once you've moved on,' and an increased cost per attempt (by anyone). If a psyker can cast three powers, it can smite three times.
- A slight change to Allocate Attack, "If a model in the target unit has already lost any wounds or has already had attacks allocated to it this phase, the attack must be allocated to that model."
- The reroll stratagem is limted now, and can't be used on all types of dice rolls. It only works on rolls to hit, wound, damage, save, advance, charge, psychic, deny, and for number of attacks.
- Heroic intervention means you can be attacked


Please highlight some concise differences you have spotted and I will add them to the list.

This is mainly a shameless cheat sheet for myself. I will update the OP

Thank you.

Aircraft can't be charged, even by flyers. (you can't end any move within engagement range of an aircraft). Flyers can pile in, consolidate or heroically intervene versus aircraft, however (though that doesn't actually do much good, as you still can't attack things you didn't charge)

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Relics and unit abilities that grant or refund CP are limited to 1/round. Thats _battle round_ not player turn. And no matter how many different abilities or relics you have, you can get _1_. So a max of 5 through relics, traits, etc. over the course of a five round game.

Only exceptions are the base amount you start with for being battleforged, and the one you gain at the start of your command phase, or any mission rules.
----

Unbound (not battleforged) armies get 0 CP. They can gain CP from abilities, relics, etc. Not sure how many missions allow unbound armies though. The sample mission in the pdf Core rules does.

---
Strategic Reserves cost CP based on the Power of the unit being reserved... unless they do so innately (teleport, ambush, deep strike, etc).

----
First turn is determined AFTER deployment. No seize.
(This can vary by mission, but this seems to be the default. Death or Glory in the leak lets defender decide first turn)

----
Unit coherency requires the unit to be in coherence after every move (including charge, pile in and consolidate). You can't leave coherency to get more models into combat and accept the consequences- it simply isn't a legal move.

-----

Hit AND wound modifiers are capped at +/- 1.

----
Rerolls are applied before modifiers.
Unmodified dice are explicitly defined- result of roll after rerolls, but before modifiers (if any of either)

The weirdness of reroll 1s, but the -1 to hit makes it a 1 so eligible for a reroll (and the various FAQs to same) is just gone.

----
For models without bases (mostly vehicles) the hull is explicitly defined as ANY part of the model. And if the model doesn't have a base, you measure to the closest bit (barrel tip, flag, whatever). If there is a base, you always measure to the base.

On the other hand, to be 'wholly within' a model without a base must have all its sticking-out-bits within the radius. If a strut pokes out of the radius, it isn't wholly within.

___
Smite has no restrictions other than the 'can't go back to a psyker once you've moved on,' and an increased cost per attempt (by anyone). If a psyker can cast three powers, it can smite three times.

----
Not strictly relevant, but...

There will be 'Condensed data sheets' for the assembly instruction booklets for kits. These lack any text outside the unit name and model names, and use icons for stats and weapons profiles.
Presumably they're planning on phasing out publishing datasheets in a half-dozen languages in the assembly instructions, since the sample condensed version has the unit name in 7 languages. Printing cost savings, yay.
Big thing is there won't be any options, abilities, gear or other text, so you can't 'assemble your own reference guide' using the instruction sheets.

Attribute modifiers are calculated by first doing division and multiplication, then addition and subtraction. So if you have an S3 unit that has +1 strength and carries an x2 weapon, your weapon strength ends up being (3x2)+1=7, instead of (3+1)x2=8.

A slight change to Allocate Attack, "If a model in the target unit has already lost any wounds or has already had attacks allocated to it this phase, the attack must be allocated to that model."

No more allocating lascannons to the guy with the stormshield and bolter fire to everyone else.

Disembarking from transports changed from within 3" to wholly within 3".

Because feth assaults from transports, right?

 Jidmah wrote:
Disembarking from transports changed from within 3" to wholly within 3".

Because feth assaults from transports, right?

After second ranks can fight if within 1/2 inch of a model within 1/2 inch of an enemy model, that is, IMHO this is the final nail in the "light infantry assault" coffin.

And there was me hoping that my GSC would be able to use goliath trucks for my acolytes, instead of relying solely on DS shenanigans

 Venerable Ironclad wrote:
A slight change to Allocate Attack, "If a model in the target unit has already lost any wounds or has already had attacks allocated to it this phase, the attack must be allocated to that model."

No more allocating lascannons to the guy with the stormshield and bolter fire to everyone else.

That's a VERY interesting change. Preferential saves weren't altogether that common outside marine armies (and maybe T'au depending on the player) but that's a very niche change to make.

The reroll stratagem is limted now, and can't be used on all types of dice rolls. It only works on rolls to hit, wound, damage, save, advance, charge, psychic, deny, and for number of attacks.

 Trickstick wrote:
The reroll stratagem is limted now, and can't be used on all types of dice rolls. It only works on rolls to hit, wound, damage, save, advance, charge, psychic, deny, and for number of attacks.

IMHO a very good change. No need to specify anymore "this cannot be rerolled". Although oes make me sad that I won't be able to reroll that flash git "shoot again" to try and fish for that sweet "6"(teen) . Still, a good change !

Objectives are placed on the table prior terrain placement for Eternal War missions.It Terrain cannot be placed on an objective. To me, this reads that objectives will never be in things like area terrain.

Tabletop Titans, playtesters, for 9th, advised it was not the intention for a model to cast multiple Smites. Grey Knight armies, Warlock Comclaves, and some others get ridiculously crazy fast. However, as written, it allows for multiple Smites. I have my Conclave ready to cast 3d6 Mortal Wounds with a +3 to cast just in case.

 Jidmah wrote:
Disembarking from transports changed from within 3" to wholly within 3".

Because feth assaults from transports, right?

Also, passengers are still unable to disembark from a transport if it moved. Because why would anyone possibly want to move a transport before disembarking?

Plus Assault weapons are still just crap Rapid Fire weapons, and Pistols are still worthless garbage.

You now have permission to move moveable parts of models during the movement phase, which means drop pods can now have their LoS footprint changed.

Andrew

Movement - pivoting models, turning turrets etc is now specifically referenced as a move.

Character targeting rules - Look out sir

Overwatch - Either datasheet special rule or strategem

Coherency check in the morale phase

Close combat sequence - After chargers, opponent fights first out of non charging units

Multi-Charging - Must get to engagement range of all units you declare a charge against

Heroic intervention - Charging units can fight a unit that heroically intervenes even if they didn't declare a charge against them.

Aura abilities - "The effects of multiple, identically named aura abilities are not cumulative (i.e. if a unit is within range of two models with the same aura ability, that aura ability only applies to the unit once)." I expect day 1 errata/FAQ to clarify how this interacts with Reivers, Night Lords etc.

Aash wrote:
Aura abilities - "The effects of multiple, identically named aura abilities are not cumulative (i.e. if a unit is within range of two models with the same aura ability, that aura ability only applies to the unit once)." I expect day 1 errata/FAQ to clarify how this interacts with Reivers, Night Lords etc.

If you're referencing the Night lord legion trait, it shouldn't need an FAQ since it states itself that the modifier can go to -3 leadership.

 Tristanleo wrote:

Aash wrote:
Aura abilities - "The effects of multiple, identically named aura abilities are not cumulative (i.e. if a unit is within range of two models with the same aura ability, that aura ability only applies to the unit once)." I expect day 1 errata/FAQ to clarify how this interacts with Reivers, Night Lords etc.

If you're referencing the Night lord legion trait, it shouldn't need an FAQ since it states itself that the modifier can go to -3 leadership.

I agree that it still works up to -3, but for the sake of clarity/avoidance of arguments I hope that this is addressed in a FAQ.

I don't know if there are any other instances of stacking auras, but if so, this rule might change the way some rules work.

With the change to morale it won't matter unless the trait is errated to also affect attrition. Our legion trait is even more useless now.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
With the change to moral it won't matter unless the trait is errated to also affect attrition. Our legion trait is even more useless now.

I would hope the change in edition hasn't affected anyone's morals.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
With the change to moral it won't matter unless the trait is errated to also affect attrition. Our legion trait is even more useless now.

I would hope the change in edition hasn't affected anyone's morals.

Ok, I fixed it. Danged auto correct.

Thank you to everybody for the input.

I have updated the OP. Apologies if I missed anything and if anyone spots anything please drop a post so I can update this.

 Trickstick wrote:
The reroll stratagem is limted now, and can't be used on all types of dice rolls. It only works on rolls to hit, wound, damage, save, advance, charge, psychic, deny, and for number of attacks.

What page is that on in the base rules? I've been over them twice and I haven't spotted it yet.

The Newman wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
The reroll stratagem is limted now, and can't be used on all types of dice rolls. It only works on rolls to hit, wound, damage, save, advance, charge, psychic, deny, and for number of attacks.

What page is that on in the base rules? I've been over them twice and I haven't spotted it yet.

It isn't in the base rules. It's from the leaked pictures of the BRB.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

The Newman wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
The reroll stratagem is limted now, and can't be used on all types of dice rolls. It only works on rolls to hit, wound, damage, save, advance, charge, psychic, deny, and for number of attacks.

What page is that on in the base rules? I've been over them twice and I haven't spotted it yet.

It isn't in the base rules. It's from the leaked pictures of the BRB.

Yeah its just the stratagem has changed wording.

Reddit says (I have not laid eyes on this personally) storm shields have changed, they now give you a +1 to your save roll. So it makes your existing invul better, but for most units it does not give you a 3++.

It's a mixed bag for termies, they now get to ignore the first point of AP, but their best invul save is a 4++ (which takes a whopping ap -3 to get to) without a secondary source of invul. Vanguard vets on the other hand are about to get trashcanned, and quite a few configs of deathwatch vets as well.

I imagine where the marines lead the rest shall follow, and we'll see 3++ saves become much more rare in 9th, which on the whole is probably better for the game.There is one notable exception though, who if the rules go forward as written will be one of the real winners of the edition change, and of course I'm talking about Custodes. The average Custode with a storm shield is now rocking a 1+/3++, which makes them the toughest infantry in the game.

 Grimgold wrote:
Reddit says (I have not laid eyes on this personally) storm shields have changed, they now give you a +1 to your save roll. So it makes your existing invul better, but for most units it does not give you a 3++.

It's a mixed bag for termies, they now get to ignore the first point of AP, but their best invul save is a 4++ (which takes a whopping ap -3 to get to) without a secondary source of invul. Vanguard vets on the other hand are about to get trashcanned, and quite a few configs of deathwatch vets as well.

I imagine where the marines lead the rest shall follow, and we'll see 3++ saves become much more rare in 9th, which on the whole is probably better for the game.There is one notable exception though, who if the rules go forward as written will be one of the real winners of the edition change, and of course I'm talking about Custodes. The average Custode with a storm shield is now rocking a 1+/3++, which makes them the toughest infantry in the game.

The new primaris models have different stormshields. Until datasheets are updated, terminators and custodes use the current ones.

9th does allow for 1+ saves, but currently terminators and custodes don't have them

Voss wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:
Reddit says (I have not laid eyes on this personally) storm shields have changed, they now give you a +1 to your save roll. So it makes your existing invul better, but for most units it does not give you a 3++.

It's a mixed bag for termies, they now get to ignore the first point of AP, but their best invul save is a 4++ (which takes a whopping ap -3 to get to) without a secondary source of invul. Vanguard vets on the other hand are about to get trashcanned, and quite a few configs of deathwatch vets as well.

I imagine where the marines lead the rest shall follow, and we'll see 3++ saves become much more rare in 9th, which on the whole is probably better for the game.There is one notable exception though, who if the rules go forward as written will be one of the real winners of the edition change, and of course I'm talking about Custodes. The average Custode with a storm shield is now rocking a 1+/3++, which makes them the toughest infantry in the game.

The new primaris models have different stormshields. Until datasheets are updated, terminators and custodes use the current ones.

9th does allow for 1+ saves, but currently terminators and custodes don't have them

which will probably be done as part of the edition change FAQ, because GW wouldn't want their new shinies to have inferior toys.

I think people are starting to get grandiose over-expectations of what this FAQ will entail.

The current codexes and PA books are usable as is. An FAQ will just address unexpected or difficult rules interactions, not provide new datasheets.

Well we know it will at least be changing the Tau faction trait so that they can overwatch for free. So there's going to be at least a few things modifying codex rules in it.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Well we know it will at least be changing the Tau faction trait so that they can overwatch for free. So there's going to be at least a few things modifying codex rules in it.

... yes. Modifying a couple sentences (at most) in a general codex rule to fix rules interactions is the purview of a FAQ.
Reprinting datasheets is not.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Well we know it will at least be changing the Tau faction trait so that they can overwatch for free. So there's going to be at least a few things modifying codex rules in it.

I imagine we will find out sooner rather than later, because preorders start on the 11th, box arrives on the 25th, and we'll get the app with all of the new data sheets one week before the box which means the 18th of july.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Well we know it will at least be changing the Tau faction trait so that they can overwatch for free. So there's going to be at least a few things modifying codex rules in it.

... yes. Modifying a couple sentences (at most) in a general codex rule to fix rules interactions is the purview of a FAQ.
Reprinting datasheets is not.

There is a data sheet for storm shields? Rhetorical question, there isn't, it's a piece of wargear, which means they have to change it just once in every codex.

Voss wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Well we know it will at least be changing the Tau faction trait so that they can overwatch for free. So there's going to be at least a few things modifying codex rules in it.

... yes. Modifying a couple sentences (at most) in a general codex rule to fix rules interactions is the purview of a FAQ.
Reprinting datasheets is not.

I didn't say anything about datasheets.