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honestly, if they do just re-release everything unique. Then i dont need the generic SM codex except maybe 5 pages.
I am not buying an entire codex for 5 pages.

And otherwise, why not just let them sell the space wolf kits as "aesthetic kits." the blood claw kits have been out of stock for years, they stopped making the long fang specific kits. Are they going to continue supporting the 15+ finecast wolf kits ?

I dunno,, I am worried they wont and to be honest, financially, why would they... they want me to buy primaris and replace my old stuff. I wont do that if i can play my more flavourful stuff.

WhiteDog wrote:It's the admech that build stormtalon and stormhawk and form the pilots that goes with it. It's what the ad mech does : they have a monopoly on many things and they also do what they need to to keep that monopoly (like, for exemple, asking techmarines to take an oath of loyalty to mars).
The DA found the STCs for the nephilim and the dark talon, build them and form their own pilots. It's a way to prevent mars from getting too much information on what the DA are doing (even in the third edition DA codex, I believe, there is an entire paragraph on the position of techmarine on the Rock and on the fact that, while they have an important role, many things are hidden from them because they are loyal to mars). It's old lore.

But, two things:
1 - The DA have Techmarines. Their current Codex has a Techmarine entry. Therefore, if they have Techmarines, why don't they just deploy them with their non-Fallen Hunting forces, so that there's no risk of split loyalties? Things like Thunderfire Cannons, Stormhawks, Stormtalons, etc could all be deployed in Greenwing formations. I mean, they already have Stormravens in their Codex. Why are Stormravens fine, but Stormtalons aren't?

2 - Why can't the DA just have their Ravenwing trained pilots fly the Stormhawks and Stormtalons? After all, who drives the Land Raiders and Stormravens that the Deathwing no doubt use? More than likely specialist Inner Circle operators - just goes to show how a "generic" datasheet can be fluffed to be more more in-fitting. After all, I don't see the DA needing their own Deathwing Land Raider entry or Deathwing Stormraven?

Martel732 wrote:It's not stupidity. It's my view on how to progress the game in a meaningful way.

If you felt that strongly about not having power armour oversaturation, you'd sell off your own Marines.

If you can't do that, then you have no ground to expect anyone else to.

WhiteDog wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
They're just as codex adherent as the Salamanders, Iron Hands, and Black Templars are...but those three have been in C: SM for years!

Black Templars are not codex adherent.

Yes... that's the point. Can't speak for Salamanders much (barring slightly larger but fewer companies), but Iron Hands and Black Templars have barely anything in common with the Codex Astartes - and yet have been part of the core SM book for over a decade.

Hell, the Dark Angels are Codex Adherent in 4/5ths of their whole Chapter. The DA are only unique insofar as their 1st and 2nd Companies, and in the case of the former, it's far more to do with operational strategy and mission role rather than any inherent uniqueness.

Type40 wrote:I just want the unique army with unique mechanics that I signed up for. Like I havnt said how stupid I think Primaris is until now. Its honestly GW selling us the same gak all over again but slightly bigger, how does no one else see this. And now, I can't even play the unique stuff i wanted to because they are pushing so hard to get me to buy this bs.

anyone want to buy 4000 pts of space wolves (sans any primaris but ragnar) contact me. I honestly am so disillusioned right now.

I honestly hate this. I wanted to play a unique faction, I didnt want to play space marines.

You don't have to buy Primaris any more than you did when Primaris units were added into the core SW book. This is a storm in a teacup.

You have no idea what units are getting cut, if any at all. And, guess what, it's not just Space Wolf players who have Firstborn armies - there are plenty of people who have vast collections of Firstborn Marines with no Primaris - and their armies haven't been cut or ruined yet. You've lost nothing, as far as anyone is aware. You have no idea if you've lost units, unique mechanics, or any of the sort, so don't act like that's happened. Maybe it will. Maybe it won't. But right now, no-one knows.

Hold it until you KNOW.

 Hellebore wrote:
This argument has been going for 20 years.

I wrote one page summaries of the space wolves (my main army) that integrate with the core marine codex 15 years ago.

It's not hard to do.

Because in the end, the differences between even the space wolves and BT and normal marines are pretty small.

If you distill the differences to dot point modifications to existing units, you can easily see how similar they are.

Why would GW do this though ? it doesnt make sense financially and its way more work then they have done for any other supplement (even if it is just one page)
I am not convinced this is going to end with the faction being unique at all and i am quite disappointed.

 Type40 wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
This argument has been going for 20 years.

I wrote one page summaries of the space wolves (my main army) that integrate with the core marine codex 15 years ago.

It's not hard to do.

Because in the end, the differences between even the space wolves and BT and normal marines are pretty small.

If you distill the differences to dot point modifications to existing units, you can easily see how similar they are.

Why would GW do this though ? it doesnt make sense financially and its way more work then they have done for any other supplement (even if it is just one page)
I am not convinced this is going to end with the faction being unique at all and i am quite disappointed.

A page summary is more work than re-writing a whole codex????

You have no idea what units are getting cut, if any at all. And, guess what, it's not just Space Wolf players who have Firstborn armies - there are plenty of people who have vast collections of Firstborn Marines with no Primaris - and their armies haven't been cut or ruined yet. You've lost nothing, as far as anyone is aware. You have no idea if you've lost units, unique mechanics, or any of the sort, so don't act like that's happened. Maybe it will. Maybe it won't. But right now, no-one knows.

Again, it just doesnt make sense for them to have "long fangs" and "devastators" or "blood claws" and "assault marines" or "grey hunters" and "tactical marines" or "elite scouts" and "troop scouts" etc , etc , etc ...
Its not hard to infer...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eonfuzz wrote:

 Type40 wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
This argument has been going for 20 years.

I wrote one page summaries of the space wolves (my main army) that integrate with the core marine codex 15 years ago.

It's not hard to do.

Because in the end, the differences between even the space wolves and BT and normal marines are pretty small.

If you distill the differences to dot point modifications to existing units, you can easily see how similar they are.

Why would GW do this though ? it doesnt make sense financially and its way more work then they have done for any other supplement (even if it is just one page)
I am not convinced this is going to end with the faction being unique at all and i am quite disappointed.

A page summary is more work than re-writing a whole codex????

what re-working an entire codex ?
a page summary that outlines changes to every single unit from the main codex... ya,,, thats more work then any other supplement has gotten in the past... whats confusing about that ?

Any self respecting company would have a "short list" of what is changing between revisions / versions of products.

Just... use those as footnotes

 Eonfuzz wrote:
Any self respecting company would have a "short list" of what is changing between revisions / versions of products.

Just... use those as footnotes

Considering the last two ca' has changes harking back to Index and the older ca for no reason i doubt gw has someone that does that...

It's literally just cutting the unique components out of the units and putting them in a list, nothing about needing to rewrite them.


For the space wolves the units are harder than the characters as the characters don't have different stats, just different special rules and weapon options.

I imagine GW will have:

Thunderwolves
fenrisian wolves
Wulfen


as unique datasheets

and just say:

Tactical squads
Space wolf tactical squads replace their options with the list below:

xxxxxx

Assault squads
Space wolf assault squads replace their options with the list below:
May take 15 for x

XXXXXX


And so on.

 Hellebore wrote:
It's literally just cutting the unique components out of the units and putting them in a list, nothing about needing to rewrite them.


For the space wolves the units are harder than the characters as the characters don't have different stats, just different special rules and weapon options.

I imagine GW will have:

Thunderwolves
fenrisian wolves
Wulfen


as unique datasheets

and just say:

Tactical squads
Space wolf tactical squads replace their options with the list below:

xxxxxx

Assault squads
Space wolf assault squads replace their options with the list below:
May take 15 for x

XXXXXX


And so on.

again, why would they do that, they didnt for any other supplement... and how would that encourage us to get primaris ... primaris are directly better then tactical marines,,, the uniqueness of space wolves own stuff isnt necessarily... they got to make our stuff just like everything else so we can "naturally" decide to buy the clearly better replacement stuff.

Ultramarines got their Tyrannic War Veterans, Victrix Guard, and Honor Guard in their supplement.
Black Templars got, at the least, their Sword Brethren.

 Type40 wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
It's literally just cutting the unique components out of the units and putting them in a list, nothing about needing to rewrite them.


For the space wolves the units are harder than the characters as the characters don't have different stats, just different special rules and weapon options.

I imagine GW will have:

Thunderwolves
fenrisian wolves
Wulfen


as unique datasheets

and just say:

Tactical squads
Space wolf tactical squads replace their options with the list below:

xxxxxx

Assault squads
Space wolf assault squads replace their options with the list below:
May take 15 for x

XXXXXX


And so on.

again, why would they do that, they didnt for any other supplement... and how would that encourage us to get primaris ... primaris are directly better then tactical marines,,, the uniqueness of space wolves own stuff isnt necessarily... they got to make our stuff just like everything else so we can "naturally" decide to buy the clearly better replacement stuff.

I'm not sure what you're getting at - space wolves already get primaris, regardless of how grey hunters are written in a codex. And space wolf primaris are just as vanilla as everyone else's primaris, so don't need any unique profile entries.

So if you're creating a supplement for space wolves to the new marine codex, you only need to focus on those units unique to the space wolves, which I did.

 harlokin wrote:
The First Legion were armed with equipment that would be unfamilar to Mars, in case they would have to fight them.

It's been 10000 years, everything else changed, and you can bet that they are familiar with it now. I mean, if they spent 10 000 years building those, they sure know how those work!

WhiteDog wrote:
The DA found the STCs for the nephilim and the dark talon, build them and form their own pilots.

Ah yes, the famous space marine factories. From the very science and industry oriented chapter of marines that don't trust the only marines with any kind of technical knowledge. Good fluff!!

WhiteDog wrote:
It's old lore.

Techmarines not being trusted is old lore. The planes being built by DA themselves isn't. It's as new as the planes themselves, introduced long after the DA's concept was finalized, and doesn't make sense.

 Type40 wrote:
Space wolves, outside of vehicles and primaris, literally do not have a sing unit in common with regular SM at the current moment.

Non-primaris non-vehicle things do not matter.

 Hellebore wrote:

 Type40 wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
It's literally just cutting the unique components out of the units and putting them in a list, nothing about needing to rewrite them.


For the space wolves the units are harder than the characters as the characters don't have different stats, just different special rules and weapon options.

I imagine GW will have:

Thunderwolves
fenrisian wolves
Wulfen


as unique datasheets

and just say:

Tactical squads
Space wolf tactical squads replace their options with the list below:

xxxxxx

Assault squads
Space wolf assault squads replace their options with the list below:
May take 15 for x

XXXXXX


And so on.

again, why would they do that, they didnt for any other supplement... and how would that encourage us to get primaris ... primaris are directly better then tactical marines,,, the uniqueness of space wolves own stuff isnt necessarily... they got to make our stuff just like everything else so we can "naturally" decide to buy the clearly better replacement stuff.

I'm not sure what you're getting at - space wolves already get primaris, regardless of how grey hunters are written in a codex. And space wolf primaris are just as vanilla as everyone else's primaris, so don't need any unique profile entries.

So if you're creating a supplement for space wolves to the new marine codex, you only need to focus on those units unique to the space wolves, which I did.

I dont think you understand.

In SW, currently, you take plasma cannon long fangs,,, not hellblasters...
In SW currently, if you like the fluff, you ll take bloodclaws not generic primaris assault.
In SW currently, if you like the fluff, you ll take grey hunters, not generic intercessors.

also, tactical squades dont have the same rules as grey hunters, do not have the same unit allowance, do not have the same weapon options and can not have wolf gaurd added to them. Same with assault marine v.s. blood claw and etc... again, literally not a sing unit that isnt a vehicle or primaris in the SW codex has the same rules on its datasheet as the SM "equivalent." I doubt the supplement will literally change every single unit to be able to take more/less models, have wolf gaurd leaders, have unique special rules that differ from the SM version and have different weapon options,,, the supplement wont just be some second codex which literally has alternative datasheets for 80% of the core codex... you get the right?

By making these units have the same generic rules as SM then its very easy for a SW player to just get generic primaris because they are all round better.
and then later it will be easier to squat oldmarines and only offer primaris.

There is no reason for GW to support the unique units ... there is less incentive for them to put work in to making the units unique then there is for them to leave them generic... the genericness of primaris is what is holding SW, BA, DA players back from going primaris... so instead of maybe making unique primaris for each faction (what I expected) they seem to be doing the cheaper option and they will leave the old units generic so we have nothing stoping us from buying the same stuff again.

Understand ? the people who want to play their army because of the unique flavour and unique mechanics are being robbed of that so we cant use it as an excuse not to buy generic primaris. financially speaking, if GW puts in extra work to give SW , wolf lords, iron wolves, rune preists, blood claws, grey hunters, long fangs,,, etc etc etc , then they wont be getting the very significant portion of people who dont want to go primaris because they are bland and flavourless.. And they really want us to go primaris....

get a space wolf upgrade kit and get the better generic guys to look wolfy will be the general new trend... and to be honest its disappointing and feels incredibly uncreative and just very "eat your white bread,,, oh,,, here is white bread with butter,,,, dont look over there at the pumpernickel,,, we have white bread with butter!"

but for gak sake , I just want pumpernickel.

I don't think you understand.
The books being merged DOES NOT mean you lose your snowflake units. It just means... that they are in the same book.

Right so your problem is that GW haven't further unique-ified space wolf primaris to keep them as different from other marines as possible? Thus requiring a full codex to show these unique differences.

As much as I love my space wolves, their uniqueness is still pretty skin deep when it comes to differences with other marines.


Maybe they will rework the non primaris unique space wolf units before their supplement to make them competitive with the primaris? Possibly not.

It's clear where GW are going and I actually agree with them for a change, so I don't really see a problem.

If the supplements can allow for salamanders, white scars etc to play 'flavourfully', then they should do the same for the wolves. They aren't unique enough to make that hard.

 Eonfuzz wrote:
I don't think you understand.
The books being merged DOES NOT mean you lose your snowflake units. It just means... that they are in the same book.

So you think there will be blood claws, grey hunters, elite scouts, long fangs, wolf lords, wolf gaurd battle leaders, wolf gaurd terminators, melee dreadnaughts, sky claws, swiftclaw bikers, and all the other units that have different rules, load out options, squad sizes, unit compositions and etc ?

You really think they are going to release a supplement that has a different version of 80% of the units in the core book ? why even make it a supplement at the point if your going to have an entire codex worth of content in it ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hellebore wrote:
Right so your problem is that GW haven't further unique-ified space wolf primaris to keep them as different from other marines as possible? Thus requiring a full codex to show these unique differences.

As much as I love my space wolves, their uniqueness is still pretty skin deep when it comes to differences with other marines.


Maybe they will rework the non primaris unique space wolf units before their supplement to make them competitive with the primaris? Possibly not.

It's clear where GW are going and I actually agree with them for a change, so I don't really see a problem.

If the supplements can allow for salamanders, white scars etc to play 'flavourfully', then they should do the same for the wolves. They aren't unique enough to make that hard.

space wolves have had unique unit composition since 4th edition, unique unit options since 4th edition... thats like saying SM are so similar to CSM that they should be in the same book, or that deathgaurd/thousand sons dont deserve there own book... ya, some of the units are similar and they all wear power armor, but they arnt the same units. They have different rules, abilties, compositions, wargear options, and sizes.
Honestly, outside of primaris and vehicles there is not a single thing about regular SM that is the same as SW. I am sorry you have only seen primaris everything the past year and a half but I prefer to play a unique army that doest play/feel at all like generic space marines... yes it was underpowered, but it WAS unique and very different from SM. SW have been entirely different from SM since i started playing. I dont think its enough to say they are the same because they both "wear power armor." so what ? nothing else is the same, CSM and SM have that in common too.

Not sure how i feel about this if it's the way it is going.

On one hand i love the Primaris 'Tactical' and Assault Intersessors.

On the other i would rather they were just that, new models without any change to the rules.

I like my Grey Hunter, Blood Claw, Long Fang and Wolf Guard Terminator squads and like them in Drop Pods, Rhino's and Land Raiders.

I have no intention of using anything as Primaris on the tabletop and i think consolidating everything to the main Space Marine Codex will accelerate the decline of the Space Marines i have grown to love over the years.

I fear this new world.

 Type40 wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
I don't think you understand.
The books being merged DOES NOT mean you lose your snowflake units. It just means... that they are in the same book.

So you think there will be blood claws, grey hunters, elite scouts, long fangs, wolf lords, wolf gaurd battle leaders, wolf gaurd terminators, melee dreadnaughts, sky claws, swiftclaw bikers, and all the other units that have different rules, load out options, squad sizes, unit compositions and etc ?

You really think they are going to release a supplement that has a different version of 80% of the units in the core book ? why even make it a supplement at the point if your going to have an entire codex worth of content in it ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hellebore wrote:
Right so your problem is that GW haven't further unique-ified space wolf primaris to keep them as different from other marines as possible? Thus requiring a full codex to show these unique differences.

As much as I love my space wolves, their uniqueness is still pretty skin deep when it comes to differences with other marines.


Maybe they will rework the non primaris unique space wolf units before their supplement to make them competitive with the primaris? Possibly not.

It's clear where GW are going and I actually agree with them for a change, so I don't really see a problem.

If the supplements can allow for salamanders, white scars etc to play 'flavourfully', then they should do the same for the wolves. They aren't unique enough to make that hard.

space wolves have had unique unit composition since 4th edition, unique unit options since 4th edition... thats like saying SM are so similar to CSM that they should be in the same book, or that deathgaurd/thousand sons dont deserve there own book... ya, some of the units are similar and they all wear power armor, but they arnt the same units. They have different rules, abilties, compositions, wargear options, and sizes.
Honestly, outside of primaris and vehicles there is not a single thing about regular SM that is the same as SW. I am sorry you have only seen primaris everything the past year and a half but I prefer to play a unique army that doest play/feel at all like generic space marines... yes it was underpowered, but it WAS unique and very different from SM. SW have been entirely different from SM since i started playing. I dont think its enough to say they are the same because they both "wear power armor." so what ? nothing else is the same, CSM and SM have that in common too.

I've been playing space wolves since their first ever codex in 2nd ed, back when they had WS5 on blood claws. From then till now their differences were - slightly better in melee than other marines, more varied loadout for terminators, and concentration of heavy weapons in heavy support.

frostblades, frost cannons, etc don't change how they play. Whether you have a frostblade, thunder hammer or lightning claw, you're still charging into combat.

Intercessors are actually MORE like grey hunters than they are like tactical marines - no heavy or special weapon options, good close combat abilities.

So I'm not sure what you expect to change on primaris to make them uniquely space wolfy - their chapter tactics will already making them different from other primaris.


you use the phrase unique unit composition with more importance than it really is. Currently Grey hunters can take:

2 special weapons
one plasma pistol.
a wolf standard.
special close combat weapon on the pack leader


Wolf guard pack leaders, which are available to all wolf squads, don't need repeating across every entry and can either be a unique Elite entry, or just an entry in the codex that says it attaches to other units.

GW could quite easily put in a supplement:

Tactical squads and intercessor squads replace their options with the following:

2 special weapons
one plasma pistol.
a wolf standard.
special close combat weapon on the pack leader



Hey presto, grey hunters and unique intercessors (huntercessors...).


beacuse as I said, when you objectively distill the differences between these and vanilla units down to dot points, those differences are tiny.

its cool, lets just put CSM in the SM codex too. whats the difference ?

 Type40 wrote:

 Eonfuzz wrote:
I don't think you understand.
The books being merged DOES NOT mean you lose your snowflake units. It just means... that they are in the same book.

So you think there will be blood claws, grey hunters, elite scouts, long fangs, wolf lords, wolf gaurd battle leaders, wolf gaurd terminators, melee dreadnaughts, sky claws, swiftclaw bikers, and all the other units that have different rules, load out options, squad sizes, unit compositions and etc ?

You really think they are going to release a supplement that has a different version of 80% of the units in the core book ? why even make it a supplement at the point if your going to have an entire codex worth of content in it ?

Why make a codex when there is only a supplement's worth of content in it?

Don't get hung up on the name of the type of book.

You'll likely only see two real changes-
one, in the future, SW stuff will get updated when normal marine stuff does.
two, you're buying an extra book.

 Type40 wrote:
its cool, lets just put CSM in the SM codex too. whats the difference ?

Faction allegiances. Don’t act like this is a hot take.

 Type40 wrote:
...space wolves have had unique unit composition since 4th edition, unique unit options since 4th edition... thats like saying SM are so similar to CSM that they should be in the same book, or that deathgaurd/thousand sons dont deserve there own book... ya, some of the units are similar and they all wear power armor, but they arnt the same units. They have different rules, abilties, compositions, wargear options, and sizes...

I will note that in the 4e SM book two-special-weapon Tacticals were a distinctly Salamanders thing, and Terminator squad leaders were an Iron Hands thing, which got dumped in 5e. Yes, the Space Wolves have unique stuff, but if you took the stuff that GW took away from everyone else to make the Space Wolves more distinct they have about the same amount of unique stuff as the BA/DA.

 Hellebore wrote:


I've been playing space wolves since their first ever codex in 2nd ed, back when they had WS5 on blood claws. From then till now their differences were - slightly better in melee than other marines, more varied loadout for terminators, and concentration of heavy weapons in heavy support.

The good old days

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Type40 wrote:
...space wolves have had unique unit composition since 4th edition, unique unit options since 4th edition... thats like saying SM are so similar to CSM that they should be in the same book, or that deathgaurd/thousand sons dont deserve there own book... ya, some of the units are similar and they all wear power armor, but they arnt the same units. They have different rules, abilties, compositions, wargear options, and sizes...

I will note that in the 4e SM book two-special-weapon Tacticals were a distinctly Salamanders thing, and Terminator squad leaders were an Iron Hands thing, which got dumped in 5e. Yes, the Space Wolves have unique stuff, but if you took the stuff that GW took away from everyone else to make the Space Wolves more distinct they have about the same amount of unique stuff as the BA/DA.

I wouldnt disagree, but I also think BA/DA should have their own books.

Why make a codex when there is only a supplement's worth of content in it?

Don't get hung up on the name of the type of book.

You'll likely only see two real changes-
one, in the future, SW stuff will get updated when normal marine stuff does.
two, you're buying an extra book.

Except its not a supplements worth of stuff. every thing the SW codex except some vehicles and primaris is different. I count 56 unique datasheets in the SW codex... 56 datasheets with different rules, unit sizes, unit gear, unit compositions then SM.... 56 datasheets is not a supplements worth of stuff. Again, you guys all just think SW are the same because all you see on the table are Primaris SW .... it is a completely different army sans primaris. again 56 unique datasheets.
If a supplement can bring all of that,,, then fine, GW isnt trying to white bread these factions so we can buy their white bread with butter instead. but realistically, i dont think they are gonna make a supplement with 56 unique datasheets when they already have a corebook...

Faction allegiances. Don’t act like this is a hot take.

so what, SW are not codex compliant, even now i cant take a space wolf unit in an ultramarine detatchment ?
if it was about faction allegiences, why no grey knights ? could it be that grey knights wont get primaris ? so they dont have to white bread them so they go for the white bread with butter instead?

Honestly, how do people think SW are pretty much SM ,,,, are TS the same as CSM ?
SW are as different to SM as CSM is to SM.

Type40 wrote:I dont think you understand.

In SW, currently, you take plasma cannon long fangs,,, not hellblasters...

Why are Hellblasters in the current Space Wolves Codex then?

In SW currently, if you like the fluff, you ll take bloodclaws not generic primaris assault.

But Assault Primaris would be well integrated into the Space Wolves Chapter. Your idea of fluff is "pre-Primaris fluff, aka, what I say".

In SW currently, if you like the fluff, you ll take grey hunters, not generic intercessors.

Intercessors are also well adopted by the Space Wolves.
You're sounding awfully gate-keepy on what a "real" Space Wolves army is. If someone made an all-Primaris Space Wolves list, but leant strongly into aggressive play, enjoyed their lore, and the SW aesthetic, why aren't they a proper SW player, according to you?

The important part is to recognise that that both Firstborn and Primaris Marines are equally valid parts of a Space Wolves army, and as long as you get to pick the units *you* want for *your* army, that's what matters. And right now, there's no indication that Grey Hunters/Blood Claws/Long Fangs are leaving.

Type40 wrote:SW are as different to SM as CSM is to SM.

They're really not.

Unless you can point to Chaos Primaris equivalents, that is (and before you say Space Wolves don't have Primaris, their current Codex has more than enough)/

A "Unique Datasheet" isn't a marine with +1 attack and a chainsword.

You could very, very easily have a visual pop out on the side of the book.

< SPACE WOLVES > Wolf Scouts
Space wolves must replace the Scout statline with the following....
< STATLINE IMAGE HERE>
Additionally, Wolf Scouts may replace their Bolter with any weapon from the Furries weapon list

 Type40 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Type40 wrote:
...space wolves have had unique unit composition since 4th edition, unique unit options since 4th edition... thats like saying SM are so similar to CSM that they should be in the same book, or that deathgaurd/thousand sons dont deserve there own book... ya, some of the units are similar and they all wear power armor, but they arnt the same units. They have different rules, abilties, compositions, wargear options, and sizes...

I will note that in the 4e SM book two-special-weapon Tacticals were a distinctly Salamanders thing, and Terminator squad leaders were an Iron Hands thing, which got dumped in 5e. Yes, the Space Wolves have unique stuff, but if you took the stuff that GW took away from everyone else to make the Space Wolves more distinct they have about the same amount of unique stuff as the BA/DA.

I wouldnt disagree, but I also think BA/DA should have their own books...

How much of the army book needs to be unique for them to get a whole reprinted book instead of a supplement? Dark Angels (as of the Codex, not counting the Primaris Vanguard release) have 47 datasheets copy-pasted from the Space Marines, 9 datasheets that are standard units with slight tweaks (ex. Land Speeders with an extra keyword), 9 datasheets that are significantly different, and 6 named characters, and some of those significantly different datasheets are faction-locking Terminator/Bike command squad characters and Bike Veterans away from, say, the White Scars (who you'd expect to have access to Bike Veterans).

would love for an Angels of death supplement with both BA and DA in it, talk about a throwback.

As it stands, I'm sure they'll have standalone books, with their own unique units (Deathwing characters, Knights, Ravenwing characters, knights, fighters). The rest will just need keywords, unique strats, relics and WTs. I'll use Impeccable Mobility for the time being until they nerf it into the ground.

 Type40 wrote:
its cool, lets just put CSM in the SM codex too. whats the difference ?

Well Renegade Chapters SHOULD be represented by the main Marine codex so...

It's going to fulfill the exact same role as the Index at the start of 8E...