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Last 11 minutes, the Adelaide GT winner Andy talks about his Ork list if y'all are interested.

https://www.40kstats.com/podcast/episode/27cb8e1c/40k-stats-centre-the-first-tournament-results-of-9th-edition

i need more scrapjets. Only repeat buggy i have atm is KBB's (technically only have 2 of them but i never use the snazz as a snazz so its my "third" lol)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i need more scrapjets. Only repeat buggy i have atm is KBB's (technically only have 2 of them but i never use the snazz as a snazz so its my "third" lol)

I have 3.. but yeah, the fact they are all rounders, and aren't afraid to go into CC... I dunno, they might be better than they look on paper.

Couple insights so far:

1) Andy used his war bikers to camp his back field objective. I wonder if Nob bikers might have been better for this.

2) He was HYPER aggressive with his buggies / bonebreakers. Turn 1 charge, full steam ahead. He basically tied them down with buggies while taking the centre objectives. Sounds similar to what boys used to do, except it's murder buggies instead

tulun wrote:


2) He was HYPER aggressive with his buggies / bonebreakers. Turn 1 charge, full steam ahead. He basically tied them down with buggies while taking the centre objectives. Sounds similar to what boys used to do, except it's murder buggies instead

This sounds amazing, but what if you lose the coin flip? Can you still keep them out of the center if you go second on the smaller boards?

Its similar to what i ran my first 9th game but of course i dont have a gakton of buggies so i filled the gaps with trukkboyz and a mork. Mork isnt as fast but doesnt need to be really.
I just T1 zoomed out and said "Board is mine" and my opponent couldnt get me off the objectives fast enough lol. Its hilarious how much firepower a Meganob in cover can eat before a squad of 5 goes down....

Its funny. In previous editions, going first mostly meant getting the better alpha strike because all your guns were still alive.
In 9th, its more about being the first to zip across the table and claim everything. So far for me T1's in 9th has been oddly tame barring two super fast units slamming into each other on an objective to duke it out lol. None of my big hitters have been getting shot at right away, its always the buggies and trukks now. Which is hilarious to think that the SparklyMork is being ignored....

My list if interested:

 Malkyr wrote:

tulun wrote:


2) He was HYPER aggressive with his buggies / bonebreakers. Turn 1 charge, full steam ahead. He basically tied them down with buggies while taking the centre objectives. Sounds similar to what boys used to do, except it's murder buggies instead

This sounds amazing, but what if you lose the coin flip? Can you still keep them out of the center if you go second on the smaller boards?

It probably depends how fast they are. Not many armies are as fast as M10-14 buggies. Eldar could do it I guess, but we can mess up Wave Serpents in CC.


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Haha, so Andy faced off against that Space Wolves list in the GT

He drove around with the Mega Trakks in a "pack". Stuff that could beat him in CC, he just hoped he rolled enough mortal wounds to destroy the unit.

Stoked to try out my buggy heavy list.

For anyone not aware, Battlescribe has updated. KFF mek has gone up to 75 points, and the weird thing where nobs on boys squads were free, but still added an extra model to the unit has been fixed.

Lol so BS went against both RAW and RAI.

Eh? Adding a nob is still adding a model to me. Im not sure how they could do it otherwise because it has different loadouts than the slug/shoota boy and those are chosen via "How many?" tallies. Which did it replace?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Eh? Adding a nob is still adding a model to me. Im not sure how they could do it otherwise because it has different loadouts than the slug/shoota boy and those are chosen via "How many?" tallies. Which did it replace?

Think he means KFF points. RAW it’s 60, RAI it’s 80 seems to be the argument.

Thanks for tips for a 500p list.
Yes, you convinced me on a more objective focused list. I will post a draft then I have one (in the Army List thread)

It is funny that the buggy list is now getting a ton of attention. I was advocating for this back in the middle of 8th... but I always play mission focused, 9th has just built the game around how I play I guess.

I tend to play casual lists unless I am at a tournament - so hopefully my buggy list doesn't get called out for being a try-hard list now lol. Then again, I bring a real variety - not just the min/max buggies.

Interested to see how the Ork tactics continue to evolve.

Vineheart01 wrote:Eh? Adding a nob is still adding a model to me. Im not sure how they could do it otherwise because it has different loadouts than the slug/shoota boy and those are chosen via "How many?" tallies. Which did it replace?

For me at least, it would add a model to the unit without you paying the cost of any models. So if you had ten boys and added a nob, you would have an eleven strong unit for the cost of ten boys. Now it has been amended so that taking a nob adds a model, being the nob, but costs 8 points as it has added a model. You then just drop a boy to match your unit size of choice. Before you could end up with a perfectly legal unit size of ten models for only 75 points because the nob was free.

tneva82 wrote:Lol so BS went against both RAW and RAI.

I honestly have no idea what is going on for the points for the KFF mek. I'm almost glad to not be running one just to save on the faff

 ArmchairArbiter wrote:
It is funny that the buggy list is now getting a ton of attention. I was advocating for this back in the middle of 8th... but I always play mission focused, 9th has just built the game around how I play I guess.

I tend to play casual lists unless I am at a tournament - so hopefully my buggy list doesn't get called out for being a try-hard list now lol. Then again, I bring a real variety - not just the min/max buggies.

Interested to see how the Ork tactics continue to evolve.

Honestly, in ITC, this list probably did poorly. This list won't necessarily kill you, but it can make your life miserable trying to hold the mid board.

Because killing is not the focus of the new missions, this style of list will do better.

General question for all -- The guy used the bikers as a backfield objective camper. That seems interesting to me. How many nob bikers do you think would effective? I feel like 10 bikers is overkill.

tulun wrote:

 ArmchairArbiter wrote:
It is funny that the buggy list is now getting a ton of attention. I was advocating for this back in the middle of 8th... but I always play mission focused, 9th has just built the game around how I play I guess.

I tend to play casual lists unless I am at a tournament - so hopefully my buggy list doesn't get called out for being a try-hard list now lol. Then again, I bring a real variety - not just the min/max buggies.

Interested to see how the Ork tactics continue to evolve.

Honestly, in ITC, this list probably did poorly. This list won't necessarily kill you, but it can make your life miserable trying to hold the mid board.

Because killing is not the focus of the new missions, this style of list will do better.

General question for all -- The guy used the bikers as a backfield objective camper. That seems interesting to me. How many nob bikers do you think would effective? I feel like 10 bikers is overkill.

I mean, personally I wouldn't want to go over 5, especially for objective campers. Most weapons that have blast would also be exceptionally effective against ork bikers even if they are under a KFF. But 5 of them is still a decent chunk of wounds and toughness for the enemy to chew through.

 Dendarien wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Eh? Adding a nob is still adding a model to me. Im not sure how they could do it otherwise because it has different loadouts than the slug/shoota boy and those are chosen via "How many?" tallies. Which did it replace?

Think he means KFF points. RAW it’s 60, RAI it’s 80 seems to be the argument.

The most recent document, the Saga of the Beast FAQ, lists it as 75. RAW BattleScribe is right.

cody.d. wrote:

I mean, personally I wouldn't want to go over 5, especially for objective campers. Most weapons that have blast would also be exceptionally effective against ork bikers even if they are under a KFF. But 5 of them is still a decent chunk of wounds and toughness for the enemy to chew through.

Actually, the goonhammer people had a good point about the bikes too.

"The Bikers I assume are a horde-clearing option – this list feels a little vulnerable to tarpitting if it runs into enemies who are still on a horde plan, so having a unit that can throw down a big volley with More Dakka and plausibly punch up against light vehicles with Wreckers is handy."

The advantage of 10 bikes is 60 shots and they get around 30 attacks each (+1 with the nob) -- you could field 5 nob bikers at 185 (give the boss a Kill saw) and get 21 Str 5 attacks, and 3 Kill saw attacks if you need these guys out in a pinch. Saves 95 points, has 5 less wounds, but these are plenty efficient. Potentially str 6 too with the strat, meaning you might wound a lot of horde stuff on 2s.

tulun wrote:

cody.d. wrote:

I mean, personally I wouldn't want to go over 5, especially for objective campers. Most weapons that have blast would also be exceptionally effective against ork bikers even if they are under a KFF. But 5 of them is still a decent chunk of wounds and toughness for the enemy to chew through.

Actually, the goonhammer people had a good point about the bikes too.

"The Bikers I assume are a horde-clearing option – this list feels a little vulnerable to tarpitting if it runs into enemies who are still on a horde plan, so having a unit that can throw down a big volley with More Dakka and plausibly punch up against light vehicles with Wreckers is handy."

The advantage of 10 bikes is 60 shots and they get around 30 attacks each (+1 with the nob) -- you could field 5 nob bikers at 185 (give the boss a Kill saw) and get 21 Str 5 attacks, and 3 Kill saw attacks if you need these guys out in a pinch. Saves 95 points, has 5 less wounds, but these are plenty efficient. Potentially str 6 too with the strat, meaning you might wound a lot of horde stuff on 2s.

Slapping out more dakka on a big unit of freeboota bikers would be pretty fun in it's own regard. But yeah as with most units, if you plan to use stratagems on them and can protect them bigger is better. But if you want little objective campers perhaps multiple smaller ones would be a safer bet?

As for nob bikers, I'm torn. On one side Meganobs feel cheaper and more durable but bikers can get away with less support due to their speed and dakka gunz. I mean, I have a decent amount of both so perhaps when I can get more games in I can test out both a few times.

I feel Nob Bikers would be more viable if the Big Mek on Warbike still existed as a normal entry in the army. I feel that they need that mobile protection to give them that extra oomph that would allow them to take advantage of their speed and glass cannon nature without being completely caught out of left field once they've munched through a target.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Dendarien wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Eh? Adding a nob is still adding a model to me. Im not sure how they could do it otherwise because it has different loadouts than the slug/shoota boy and those are chosen via "How many?" tallies. Which did it replace?

Think he means KFF points. RAW it’s 60, RAI it’s 80 seems to be the argument.

The most recent document, the Saga of the Beast FAQ, lists it as 75. RAW BattleScribe is right.

It affects saga book. All point values are taken from most recent book which　is ca.　raw 60. Bs wrong. Never trust bs for rules

Take all your books, write down physically all changes in erratas. Then take most recent book and check points. That's the official gw approved way to find points. And as you　can see you don't ever　see this point then as modified value　is in saga but you will take ca. If you don't believe try it. Even kindergarden will see it after doing this.

Rai meanwhile is 80. No 5 pts discount. 75 goes against both raw and rai.

Sorry tneva, but that is just made up BS.

The SotB document is an 100% an update to 9th edition rules, as evidenced by multiple erratas directed at 9th edition rules inside the document, it's release after 9th edition launch and the logo used.
Since it has been released after CA2020, this is the most recent source of a big mek's point costs available.

The 60 points from the original release have been overwritten by CA2020 and now have been overwritten by the SotB FAQ.
Absolutely no interpretation of anything GW has ever released supports using something but the most recent rules.
Books don't magically supersede more recent documents. You literally had to make up extra steps for your interpretation to exist in the first place.

Don't state your opinions as fact. Claiming that your variant is "the official GW approved way to find points" is flat out a lie and you have no way of backing up that lie.

Both RAI and RAW the big mek with KFF is 75 points. That's the cost he has on the most updated document and its datasheet is pretty clear, the KFF is included both in its wargear and points cost.

Big mek jumped from 55 to 60 because that was the 10ish% increase that most of the orks characters got from 8th to 9th, then he was updated to 75 because he was undercosted otherwise.

The misconception comes from the timing of the FAQ's release: if it was out before CA I'm sure CA would have put the Big Mek with KFF at 75. But GW never released a SotB FAQ before 9th, so CA just updated the Big Mek's points cost following the guidelines, but it was a point cost that needed to be corrected. Last FAQ put things right.

BattleScribe is only based on the opinion of the person updating it... it’s not official and is that persons best guess...

The big Mek point cost is still kinda up in the air but I’d lean to chapter approved being the most recent updated rules and that is due for its own faq.

To throw a bigger wrench into the debate.... the most recent points cost isn’t even chapter approved it’s the official Gw app which was the most recent points officially released by Gw... and the big mek w kff is only 75pts with the kff included...

However The mega armor big Mek is 85pts (kmk+10, pk+10) with the kff free

Makeing the list KFF seems to be the same fun like doing tax return....

Hi!
Regarding the Warboss on Warbike unit that is listed in the Munitorum Field Manual as a FW unit, I asume that it is the old rules from the index that one should use? If so, is the ERRETA for the "Warboss on Warbike, Waaagh!" valid as well?

It's 5 points guys, not a big deal.

Honestly, RAW, the Warboss on Bike is 105 points with a klaw, not 110 according to battlescribe, so I figure it washes out.

(Reason: It says the warboss on bike INCLUDES wargear in CA20, and the Index: Bike boss comes with a Big choppa)

Big Mek with KFF is 75 points on the app that has been just updated.
Doesn´t get more official than that.


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oh and Zhad is 100 pts with equipment, so he haven´t been quatted.
Yet.


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Side question:

Are Grot tanks, Grot Mega Tanks, Lifta Wagon and all other FW veichle allowed to matched play or not?

Forgeworld is allowed in tournaments, I think it was just ETC that was weird about them?

far as i know all thats not allowed is PL-only stuff (i.e. a lot of our crap) or specialist detachments.

tulun wrote:The advantage of 10 bikes is 60 shots and they get around 30 attacks each (+1 with the nob) -- you could field 5 nob bikers at 185 (give the boss a Kill saw) and get 21 Str 5 attacks, and 3 Kill saw attacks if you need these guys out in a pinch. Saves 95 points, has 5 less wounds, but these are plenty efficient. Potentially str 6 too with the strat, meaning you might wound a lot of horde stuff on 2s.

I've been thinking about this as well. The shot output at least on regular Warbikers.