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tulun wrote:
Forgeworld is allowed in tournaments, I think it was just ETC that was weird about them?

Depends. I think tneva said that ETC bans FW in his area, but I've talked to multiple people attending ETC events around here and they don't seem to mind.

So I played experimental 9th game last night.

SMG vs KMK - 48” range with the new rules is maybe even more important. Because there si nowhere to hide. Table is smaller. Theory about “too much LOS blocking” is not working.

Important is deploy another way then in 8th. I skipped KFF protection and spread the Gunz in the back of my deploy to screen 9” DS. Coz grots are for screen, nicht so? SMG open crossfire in narrow LOS between the tall ruins. Works fine, because planes, truckboyz and scrapjets in the face of enemy atract the fire and SMG was not the target. So who needs KFF anymore . Plus you can improve your LOS with this magic 3” move without penalty, which is pretty imoprtant. 2-3 of my 6 SMGs moved every turn.

And yes, there was huge amount of ruins etc on the table with the biggest one in the midle.

And one more point. Daemon Prince could be killed by empty Trukk But you need the Prince with last 2 wounds and some luck with the Ramming Speed

i think thats largely on what you have to make terrain out of.
in my area its almost exclusively ruins and ruinwalls. Very little rocky stuff we got is really usable in 40k and the few tree platforms we got are really annoying to play around so they tend to get ignored. People are terrible at putting barricades away so they kinda...vanish alot

The ruin rules are annoying around here for that reason. Theres usually a loose zig-zag of LoS blocking stuff in every game, really only giving 1-2 lines that go from edge to edge without obstruction.

Can Infantry performs Actions like Raise the banners high or Deploy scrambles or Teleport Homer while sitting in transport?

I think no, because Transport rule says “Units cannot normaly do anything or be affected in any way while they are embarked” . But is it valid for Actions also?

Grots hoovering around in Chinorks looks so crazy I have to ask this question

Infantry in transport are not considered to be on the battlefield unless a rule tells you otherwise. In addition, most actions require you to measure to the unit inside, which can never be done.

In general, if its in a transport just ignore them completely.
iirc the only rules that affect them period right now is Open Topped and a couple of retaliatory rules were faq'd to hit the embarked unit not the transport (i.e. admech bots' shield).
Open Topped only lets them "exist" so-to-speak when they shoot. But they still arent actually on the board.

I've heard people mention usage of Kommandos so far for enemy backline objective disruption, possibly even for the teleport or linebreaker secondary depending on the size of the unit. I know that Deffskullz are basically the mandatory klan for them to get the Obsec rule, but as far as size and loadout goes, what has worked for people so far? It seems like you either go for 5 min squads with a Nob + Killsaw, or one to two 15 man squads to do more than just annoy your opponent.

5 boy kommando squads are definitely a topic. Seems to be cheap solution. I'm afraid, they are too squishi and die immediately.... in theory, you can hide them in ruins or whatever.....

I played them couple of times in 8th like objective grab etc. They killed nothing and die. 3 SMG was better investment than 2 Kommando squads. But there were no secondaries in 8th...

I've had pretty good success with small squads of 5 man Kommandos and Stormboyz. I think big units are out for now

 Jidmah wrote:

tulun wrote:
Forgeworld is allowed in tournaments, I think it was just ETC that was weird about them?

Depends. I think tneva said that ETC bans FW in his area, but I've talked to multiple people attending ETC events around here and they don't seem to mind.

Naah fw been fine here all the time. It's legends/index flowchart stuff that has been banned well before ork codex came out.

Though think some bigger etc tournaments might have had it banned. Don't quote me on that though.

Ok, then I actually don't know anyone who has FW banned as part of their ETC gaming outside of internet hearsay (not to be confused with internet heresy)

I am a TO and league organiser, one of the 2 other friend that helps me is the head of the judges for the ETC, that now is called WCT. FW is not allowed. However, there are NO tournaments in Sweden, Danmark, Norway and any other european country I am aware of that use WCT rules ATM.

 Jidmah wrote:
Ok, then I actually don't know anyone who has FW banned as part of their ETC gaming outside of internet hearsay (not to be confused with internet heresy)

Yuh. If fw was largely banned here(there's couple small tournaments here and there. Also not sure is it coincidence but looking back at recent tournaments(pre-corona mostly) the 2 that did ban fw were actually itc styled).

 Elfric wrote:
I've had pretty good success with small squads of 5 man Kommandos and Stormboyz. I think big units are out for now

5 man squads of kommandos are quite useful, however larger squads can also be good if they have some synergy with the rest of the army: if you jump 30 boyz and maybe tellyport 5 meganobz a large squads of kommandos adds more pressure; even with massed trukk/wagon boyz they could work, they're basically trukk boyz that have been delivered wherever they needed to be. DS is probably the best option, as usual, as they count like boyz for obj sec and the nob's PK has the re-rolls, but aggressive lists of ES or Goffs could work as well.

If Snikrot wasn´t locked in the worst klan after Snakebite, it would be a great vanguard option.

Due to having Snikrot, a decent psyhcic power, relic and warlord trait and the stratagem that at least makes some sense in 9th, I'd probably consider blood axes to be better than snakebites, but at the very least tied for last.

In reality, 6+++ is just useless.

 Emicrania wrote:
If Snikrot wasn´t locked in the worst klan after Snakebite, it would be a great vanguard option.

Yeah, tbh, I kinda wish he had a rule similar to Ghazgkhull where he doesn't lose or make the rest of his detachment lose their klan rules. He's more or less a solo killer ala Marbo anyways, except for Orks, so it never made sense to me that he was klan locked. That or Blood Axes need a serious overhaul to consider ever taking a solo detachment of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
Due to having Snikrot, a decent psyhcic power, relic and warlord trait and the stratagem that at least makes some sense in 9th, I'd probably consider blood axes to be better than snakebites, but at the very least tied for last.

In reality, 6+++ is just useless.

I feel most 6+ FNP abilities to just be a time waster in most games. Either you save nothing some games, or you roll hot for others and you save disproportionately. But with multi-damage weapons being so widespread nowadays, its much more the former than the latter. FNP needs to be 5+ or better to warrant considering useful in most armies nowadays. If Painboyz boosted the Snakebite FNP to a 5+, I think we'd see a lot more Painboy and Snakebite usage.

Yea, I was very disappointed that the painboy save didn't stack with the Snakebite one. Would have been a nice little fluffy perk that made them less bad. Alas, I haven't played my Snakebites as Snakebites at all in 8th - they've been Evil Sunz wild boyz instead.

6+++ is more or less waste on 1w models. For w2 models vs dam2 weapons you kill basically 75 models per 100 shots.

And as my ork warboss found having dam flat 4 klaw wasn't that cool vs w4 dark eldar models(incidentally about 65 models dead for 100 past armour/inv save)

So guys, I just ended the fun task of going thru ALL orks unit in the codex, PA and FW index with the new rules and update points.
I made an excel with various checklists as if the unit can DS for free, has an innate ability to deliver MW, price per W and so on.

Please do check it and give some feedback, during this month I will open a ork page on FB only for competitive play, with the hope to get more people to pitch in.
Any feedback is welcome.

When I have the time and the energy I will do an unit analysis on Mathammer in order to see if there are some good investment that we might not see yet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14omPIpoERd9ywXmQ8ptxMNjL5nHezrX1UwPTIRyRn7o/edit?usp=sharing

Yeah, sadly of our 2W models... that's nobz and warbikers, right? Not exactly the stars of our codex. Technically Flash Gits as well, but they can't ever be snakebites. For either of those having a 6++ save is just as good, if not better.

Averages fails to properly display the unreliability of an ability with such a low chance of success. A 6+++ has a relatively high chance of having absolutely no effect on your game, and therefore is no more than a gamble. Since snakebites have little else to offer besides their relic pretty much every sub-clan is better than them.

Has anyone had much luck with using trukkboyz so far? Still thinking it's worth the investment for the various uses they offer while dumping the lads onto objectives.

Thinking about what to support them with. Weirdboyz aren't as needed with those troops you could back them up with bikerbosses or wartrikes to do some lifting or simply leave them as a distraction of sorts while other aspects of the list do the work.

 Emicrania wrote:
So guys, I just ended the fun task of going thru ALL orks unit in the codex, PA and FW index with the new rules and update points.
I made an excel with various checklists as if the unit can DS for free, has an innate ability to deliver MW, price per W and so on.

Please do check it and give some feedback, during this month I will open a ork page on FB only for competitive play, with the hope to get more people to pitch in.
Any feedback is welcome.

When I have the time and the energy I will do an unit analysis on Mathammer in order to see if there are some good investment that we might not see yet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14omPIpoERd9ywXmQ8ptxMNjL5nHezrX1UwPTIRyRn7o/edit?usp=sharing

Very nice, definitely helps get a objective look on units when they are laid out in a PPW format, MANz really are looking like champs.
Small note Grotsnik MUST charge when enemy is within 12" ignoring anything that'd prevent him.

 Emicrania wrote:
So guys, I just ended the fun task of going thru ALL orks unit in the codex, PA and FW index with the new rules and update points.
I made an excel with various checklists as if the unit can DS for free, has an innate ability to deliver MW, price per W and so on.

Please do check it and give some feedback, during this month I will open a ork page on FB only for competitive play, with the hope to get more people to pitch in.
Any feedback is welcome.

When I have the time and the energy I will do an unit analysis on Mathammer in order to see if there are some good investment that we might not see yet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14omPIpoERd9ywXmQ8ptxMNjL5nHezrX1UwPTIRyRn7o/edit?usp=sharing

Seems like there is a lot of shorthand, colour coding and markings. Is there a list of their meanings somewhere I missed?

cody.d. wrote:
Has anyone had much luck with using trukkboyz so far? Still thinking it's worth the investment for the various uses they offer while dumping the lads onto objectives.

Thinking about what to support them with. Weirdboyz aren't as needed with those troops you could back them up with bikerbosses or wartrikes to do some lifting or simply leave them as a distraction of sorts while other aspects of the list do the work.

Heres my recent experience with them:

Gave trukk boyz a go in a 1k point game. Opponent was relatively new the game but proactively trying to be good so feel free to take my results with a grain of salt. Opponent was playing Ad Mech and experimenting with the new raiders and a bit of a gunline with dakkabots, crab, kataphrons and skitarii. I had 4 trukks (wrecking balls + big shoota), 3 with 10 boyz (killsaw+rokkit), 1 filled with flash gitz, and warboss with all the brutal but kunnin, biggest boss, and killa klaw.
First game I got to go first, I got a bit lucky with flash gitz and got to shoot twice, also mork smiled upon me and all my rokkits connected. So his crab,1 dakka bot, and raiders were all gone first turn. My movement was very aggressive except for the trukk with flash gitz, I was able to push 3 of the trukks up close to his gun line, 1 was ontop of an objective and 2 were ontop of another objective. Flash git trukk was sitting on an objective on my side of the field. He used what dakka he had left to shoot down two trukks, but I still scored for holding 3 objectives due to my boyz spilling out onto them. He wasn't able to answer flash gitz fast enough and I cleared most of his gunline out by end of turn 3, leaving him with a grim turn 4.

Second game we only squeezed out a round due to time. We agreed he would go first to see how things would play out without the generosity of mork. He learnt his lesson about flash gitz and immediately shot down the trukk with them in it, and used his raiders to charge them. I lost quite a few flash gitz from this but was able to clear out most his raiders in overwatch. I failed to kill them all in the fight phase, with precisely 1 wound remaining on the whole unit. He had another unit of raiders try to get ontop of an objective. Despite this I still had 3 trukks ready to go as his efforts were focused on the trukks. I pushed forward onto objectives again, and this time I was within charge range of his dakka bots and raiders. So I charged the trukks into them, while still being in range of the objective due to the trukks size. The Flash Gitz had to fall back into some ruins, but when their trukk exploded I used loot it. So I was confident in their staying power. Despite the game ending early, I felt like I was in a good position. He had countered my Flash Gitz for a turn but they were now super tanky. My trukks were tying up large portions of this army, and what hadn't been tied up was going to be heavily moved blocked by the presence of my trukks. He might of been able to kill my trukks over the next two turns, but I was going to be sitting on the primaries for a majority of the game without any issue.

For 2k point games, I think you need to go a bit harder into trukk boyz to pull it off. I think if you don't have at least 6 sets of them then you're not going to have any luck, trukks are surprisingly sturdy but they're not sturdy enough to withstand the dakka found in 2k point games. Your real tankiness will come from quantity. From playing that previous game, even though my opponent was a novice, I didn't have to try at all to stay on top of the objective. He technically has to shoot at two separate units to clear me from it. I didn't lean into this hard enough in that game but I also think there is a LOT of potential in zoning out your enemy with move blocking. I think bonebreakers and buggies would also fulfil that role. For actual support units though, I would genuinely consider wartrike with da fixer uppers. Advancing and charging with trukks could have some value in board control and having a unit that can keep up with them to repair them would increase their staying power. I think you're right in ditching weird boyz, they're great but a trukk boy list will just give them nothing to work with. I would also argue that you want distraction units, to draw fire away from the trukks.
I've got a tourney coming up soon and planning Gargantuan Squiggoth + Trukk Boyz. The idea being the trukk boyz focus on primary objectives, the Gargantuan Squiggoth doubles as a distraction and also focuses down on their threats. I haven't got a finished list yet but will probably post it for feedback closer to the event.

 Emicrania wrote:
So guys, I just ended the fun task of going thru ALL orks unit in the codex, PA and FW index with the new rules and update points.
I made an excel with various checklists as if the unit can DS for free, has an innate ability to deliver MW, price per W and so on.

Please do check it and give some feedback, during this month I will open a ork page on FB only for competitive play, with the hope to get more people to pitch in.
Any feedback is welcome.

When I have the time and the energy I will do an unit analysis on Mathammer in order to see if there are some good investment that we might not see yet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14omPIpoERd9ywXmQ8ptxMNjL5nHezrX1UwPTIRyRn7o/edit?usp=sharing

Good work. Some things I noticed:
- Buzzgob cannot take a KFF
- Thrakka still has his +1 attack aura
- Souped-up Speshul also reduces S and AP by 1
- Squig Tires are not related to evil suns

Otherwise, looking good

Diakos wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
So guys, I just ended the fun task of going thru ALL orks unit in the codex, PA and FW index with the new rules and update points.
I made an excel with various checklists as if the unit can DS for free, has an innate ability to deliver MW, price per W and so on.

Please do check it and give some feedback, during this month I will open a ork page on FB only for competitive play, with the hope to get more people to pitch in.
Any feedback is welcome.

When I have the time and the energy I will do an unit analysis on Mathammer in order to see if there are some good investment that we might not see yet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14omPIpoERd9ywXmQ8ptxMNjL5nHezrX1UwPTIRyRn7o/edit?usp=sharing

Very nice, definitely helps get a objective look on units when they are laid out in a PPW format, MANz really are looking like champs.
Small note Grotsnik MUST charge when enemy is within 12" ignoring anything that'd prevent him.

Cheers !

cody.d. wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
So guys, I just ended the fun task of going thru ALL orks unit in the codex, PA and FW index with the new rules and update points.
I made an excel with various checklists as if the unit can DS for free, has an innate ability to deliver MW, price per W and so on.

Please do check it and give some feedback, during this month I will open a ork page on FB only for competitive play, with the hope to get more people to pitch in.
Any feedback is welcome.

When I have the time and the energy I will do an unit analysis on Mathammer in order to see if there are some good investment that we might not see yet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14omPIpoERd9ywXmQ8ptxMNjL5nHezrX1UwPTIRyRn7o/edit?usp=sharing

Seems like there is a lot of shorthand, colour coding and markings. Is there a list of their meanings somewhere I missed?

It was on the side, I moved it on the bottom for easier reading on the phone. Also I changed to alternate shade to easier reading.

Jidmah wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
So guys, I just ended the fun task of going thru ALL orks unit in the codex, PA and FW index with the new rules and update points.
I made an excel with various checklists as if the unit can DS for free, has an innate ability to deliver MW, price per W and so on.

Please do check it and give some feedback, during this month I will open a ork page on FB only for competitive play, with the hope to get more people to pitch in.
Any feedback is welcome.

When I have the time and the energy I will do an unit analysis on Mathammer in order to see if there are some good investment that we might not see yet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14omPIpoERd9ywXmQ8ptxMNjL5nHezrX1UwPTIRyRn7o/edit?usp=sharing

Good work. Some things I noticed:
- Buzzgob cannot take a KFF
- Thrakka still has his +1 attack aura
- Souped-up Speshul also reduces S and AP by 1
- Squig Tires are not related to evil suns

Otherwise, looking good

Thanks Jid! I´ll Fix it right away.

So I've done some testing on the list I posted a few pages back.

List is in the spoilers if anyone wants to see.


The weirdboy was just not pulling his weight in this style of list. He ate a CP just by existing, and keeping him in my back pocket for the opportune moment was not worth the hassle. I found that if my opponents popped a wagon and a bunch of boys, a warboss and a weirdboy fell out of it, then all three were going to be super dead in the next few moments, and the jump/warpath shenanigans almost never came to fruition (I did get da jump off on the MANz in one game after their wagon got shot to bits turn one and they proceeded to sit on my opponents home objective the entire game). Strangely, having just the boys and the warboss fall out just elicited more of a "okay, that's a thing. Let's shoot more wagons" reaction more often than not. So he has been shelved at the moment.

The MANz are awesome for sitting on objectives. 2+/6++ in cover soaks up silly amounts of firepower and are so obnoxious. However they just weren't killing things as well as I would like expect for the saws boss. So I bought more MANz and now everyone has saws.

Other than that, the list feels really solid and feels like its components work well together.

I now have about 50 points to add after adding a single boy to the larger mob. Would I benefit more from a minimum unit of kommandos, or a rokkit deffkopta? I'm erring towards the kopta, simply so I don't have to paint more boys


Also, job well done on the front page write up Jid.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
The weirdboy was just not pulling his weight in this style of list. He ate a CP just by existing, and keeping him in my back pocket for the opportune moment was not worth the hassle. I found that if my opponents popped a wagon and a bunch of boys, a warboss and a weirdboy fell out of it, then all three were going to be super dead in the next few moments, and the jump/warpath shenanigans almost never came to fruition (I did get da jump off on the MANz in one game after their wagon got shot to bits turn one and they proceeded to sit on my opponents home objective the entire game). Strangely, having just the boys and the warboss fall out just elicited more of a "okay, that's a thing. Let's shoot more wagons" reaction more often than not. So he has been shelved at the moment.

Yeah, my experience with weird boyz in similar lists was the same. He just feels out of place in a vehicle list. We need a weird wagon

The MANz are awesome for sitting on objectives. 2+/6++ in cover soaks up silly amounts of firepower and are so obnoxious. However they just weren't killing things as well as I would like expect for the saws boss. So I bought more MANz and now everyone has saws.

Same. Just keep in mind that objectives can't actually be in cover, just very close to it unless we are talking about an objective surrounded by obstacles.

I now have about 50 points to add after adding a single boy to the larger mob. Would I benefit more from a minimum unit of kommandos, or a rokkit deffkopta? I'm erring towards the kopta, simply so I don't have to paint more boys

A single koptas does very little besides giving up 2 VP for the vehicle killing secondary, so I'd prefer kommandos. An alternative option would be putting rokkits on your mobs and warboss for some extra deffskulls awesomeness.

Also, job well done on the front page write up Jid.

Thanks

Had a fun game this weekend, first 9th edition game, some rules probably missed but it was good fun.

I had a fully painted army, he had mostly grey, so I swapped out a turret for a grey one. I ain't taking free points for anything that isn't related to the game. This is my stance on the whole "10 free points for having time to paint" rubbish - I'll only field 100% battle-ready if my opponent does. Otherwise, the grey turret, or one grey boy, comes out.

I ran (1500):


he had primaris, 6 of the new bikes, the 2 big grav-tanks, 2 units of primaris marines and 1 unit of assault ones, captain and chapter master.

I won 51-46. We were plaing mission 2 of the 1500 point range, with 4 objectives. It was a really fun game. Loved the objectives we can choose and the way points are scored throughout. Really felt like it went down to the wire.

Things I've found:

1: Might run bloodaxe instead of deffskulls for the ability to fall back then shoot. Got my wagons in CC with their bikes, which worked for nullifying their speed and decent guns, but felt I'd have liked more utility from there.

2: Shokkjump Dragsta is immense for board control, just plop it on the objective you're missing or behind enemy lines for extra points! wahey!

3: Trukkboys are still sub-par, I will be changing the PK's for Saws, throwing them a rokkit and trying again. Might run shoota-trukks next time.

4: Endless Green Tide is a game-changer in low points if you have big-isy squads! I had 3 orks left, 3CP later and there's 20 of them threatening your objective in your deployment zone, boom!

5: Stepping back 2 inches from combat and smiling in the chapter masters face as the boomer levels its sights on him from behind is quite fun. BOOM! hur hur hur... In the ooold days the boys would have gotten a bit crispy, but no templates means no collateral!

6: Battlewagons need some decent CC attachments - without them, they were too limp when they made it there.

7: Trukks need to charge before boys, to soak up any overwatch. They can also screen from protective characters, who would otherwise intervene.


All in all it was much good fun! Thoroughly enjoyed it, liking 9th better than 8th!