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Finally took the time to read the first page on the new thread - good work Jidmah!
Agree with almost all of the stuff, some minor differences about the rating of a few units, but those tend to be between two colours in my mind. Guess with an 10/10 points rating the results would be more similar.^^


For example i would rate boys 1 tier better, since green tide seems to be quite good right now and spamming lots of them is still valid.

Red tier for Mini Mek is a bit harsh, no? :( With a death skulls brigade he is still the cheapest slot filler and does his job with the clan trait and an KMB as well as potential repairing.

Used stormboys for filling an infantry only brigade to run as many ObSec models i can, so i can see some use in them, if you want to avoid Kopta secondaries VP`s and get a fast, small unit for your own secondaries as well.
Also the cheapest slot filler in a brigade without vehicles, which might be worth to take a look into.

Zhadsnark might get a little more worthy with todays loss of the Warbos on Bike as well.


Oh and something that might be worth pointing out with competetive streak, especially with the Dakkajet but concerns other units as well: +2 to hit still helps if you get negative hit modifiers, so shooting something with +2 or more will still matter, if there are (multiple) negative hit modifiers. I play a lot vs. Stygis Admech and Raven Guard, so at least for me it gets relevant from time to time.


But like i said, great work that gives a good overview on da greenskins.

Its both amusing and infuriating how listbuilding works now. I have been fielding what feels like way too few troops (2-3 units) yet at the same time i feel like i dont have the points to try what im thinking about lol. Man its gonna take awhile to get used to this...

Yeah it`s kinda weird. Just finished the last of my 150 gretchin 3 months ago, now i just get 3 x 10 so i can play my battalion or just go for spearhead and the likes.
Too bad now my buggies don`t screen the characters anymore, that was a huge hit for my vehicle heavy lists.
Sadly my most effective games so far were green tide denying secondaries, but the most fun are Nauts, Buggies and stompy stuff...
But those list building problems hit all my armies, except DG because there i don`t really care about CP.
Still kinda hard to find the best sweetspot for numbers of HQ, minimize troop taxes and get CP.
2 patrols seems to be popular a lot, but that depends on the army. With TS i still play 3 detachments, orks no chance.

 Grotrebel wrote:
Finally took the time to read the first page on the new thread - good work Jidmah!
Agree with almost all of the stuff, some minor differences about the rating of a few units, but those tend to be between two colours in my mind. Guess with an 10/10 points rating the results would be more similar.^^

Thanks

For example i would rate boys 1 tier better, since green tide seems to be quite good right now and spamming lots of them is still valid.

I'm not aware of any boyz-heavy list doing well, feel free to provide a source.

Red tier for Mini Mek is a bit harsh, no? :( With a death skulls brigade he is still the cheapest slot filler and does his job with the clan trait and an KMB as well as potential repairing.

Filling slots is a bad thing in 9th, and KMB is a legends option - it's pretty much guaranteed that no competitive event will allow those. All ratings have been made without considering legends options.

Used stormboys for filling an infantry only brigade to run as many ObSec models i can, so i can see some use in them, if you want to avoid Kopta secondaries VP`s and get a fast, small unit for your own secondaries as well.
Also the cheapest slot filler in a brigade without vehicles, which might be worth to take a look into.

Same here, filling slots is not a good thing in 9th, as there is no advantage in taking a brigade over a battalion. In fact, considering the heavy nerfs to our troops, a battalion, an outrider detachment or even a pair of patrols are better choices than burdening yourself with six units of troops.

Zhadsnark might get a little more worthy with todays loss of the Warbos on Bike as well.

Not really, he has a lot of problems.Besides being locked into Evil Suns, his klaw is only d3, not flat 3 damage like the killa klaw boss and he can't give the Waaagh! to bikes. As such he is unable to fill the void left by the warboss, Thrakka does a way better job at that, despite costing an arm and a leg.

Zhard does get an extra attack compared to bikerboss and with da biggest upto 9 wounds.

He also gets mortals on hit rolls of 6 with klaw vs infantry/monster

Bigdoza wrote:
Zhard does get an extra attack compared to bikerboss and with da biggest upto 9 wounds.

He also gets mortals on hit rolls of 6 with klaw vs infantry/monster

He's a poor replacement. He's fine on his own, but being locked into Evil Suns is a complete flatline to me.

He also can't re-roll to wound and has inconsistent damage. The Biker boss can get up to 6 attacks at flat 3, or 5 attacks with flat 4.

So who is the killa klaw holder now?

Klever Big Mek in mega armor? Painboy?

Are any of our relics worthwhile, or are they even usable/deliverable if they are decent? Super cyborg and gitbonez are like a meh nice afterthought better than nothing. Not like tailor a list around worthy.

We have support characters who die easier, do less effective supporting, and cost more lol

Well nothing we can do about it.

Questions:

1) Is the Wartrike just a liability now? Should we avoid taking him?

2) As a replacement for the Biker boss, do we just toss a Warboss in a Forktress?

Hmm, the look out sir rules changes does hurt a fair bit. Means dreads can't hide characters either huh? Though would units of deffkoptas?

Wartrike is still a valid option if you run multiple wagons. Wagons protect it and wagons getting that T1 charge is mega important, also less incentive to pop it if the units its meant to buff are already across the table anyway.
I would drop the kustom job and save the cp though personally.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Wartrike is still a valid option if you run multiple wagons. Wagons protect it and wagons getting that T1 charge is mega important, also less incentive to pop it if the units its meant to buff are already across the table anyway.
I would drop the kustom job and save the cp though personally.

Honestly, I might just take triple trukk as my default troop choices in my mech list. It won't win me tournaments, but it'll probably make the wartrike useable when I play with my friends.

Jidmah wrote:

Red tier for Mini Mek is a bit harsh, no? :( With a death skulls brigade he is still the cheapest slot filler and does his job with the clan trait and an KMB as well as potential repairing.

Filling slots is a bad thing in 9th, and KMB is a legends option - it's pretty much guaranteed that no competitive event will allow those. All ratings have been made without considering legends options.

Oh damn i missed that one. In that case I 100% agree on the Mek.

And concerning green tide, just seemed a lot of people were on the "only option left to play" train. Getting any helpful and meaningful data from tournaments is kinda hard with a lot less taking place and people overall just getting into the edition with lots of new variables and lists.
I played a few games and playing horde went a lot better points wise then my vehicle heavy lists.
Not gonna make it a habit to field 200+ models tough.

tulun wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Wartrike is still a valid option if you run multiple wagons. Wagons protect it and wagons getting that T1 charge is mega important, also less incentive to pop it if the units its meant to buff are already across the table anyway.
I would drop the kustom job and save the cp though personally.

Honestly, I might just take triple trukk as my default troop choices in my mech list. It won't win me tournaments, but it'll probably make the wartrike useable when I play with my friends.

My issue with using trukks to protect characters is not only are they super squishy but i generally want trukks to spread out and claim objectives, not castle-up around my boss.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

tulun wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Wartrike is still a valid option if you run multiple wagons. Wagons protect it and wagons getting that T1 charge is mega important, also less incentive to pop it if the units its meant to buff are already across the table anyway.
I would drop the kustom job and save the cp though personally.

Honestly, I might just take triple trukk as my default troop choices in my mech list. It won't win me tournaments, but it'll probably make the wartrike useable when I play with my friends.

My issue with using trukks to protect characters is not only are they super squishy but i generally want trukks to spread out and claim objectives, not castle-up around my boss.

Yeah, that's legit. It's rough. The perfect options are the ones that don't do anything anymore... Mega Trakks / KBBs / Deff Dreads.

Gunwagon would be great if it could move more than 6" a turn at top bracket for shoot twice (plus it's explosion could wreck him)... you could do a second wagon I guess, but it'll probably just leave him isolated once it charges. Opened topped shooting one?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Big trakk, maybe? But those are pretty squishy for the points.

Its insulting that we cant even walk into a GW and buy a single HQ model (besides the wartrike I suppose). Completely unaccepable. Even online options are crap since theyre all metal/finecast models or come packaged with other models (Grukk and Big Mek)

....and I just got in from a great game with Ghaz on the table for the first time, leading a 2k point army of Goff trukk Boyz and nobz to properly smash up a Dark Eldar list to find out that GW have gone all Blood axe on us. Treacherous sneaky gitz.

Wow, I am really miffed at the changes I read today. GW's bias towards marines is increasingly annoying with how they don't only actively make them stronger but keep kicking other factions down for the sin of remotely challenging their golden boys. I was initially excited in seeing the changes for Terminators that we might receive some similar treatment to the PK, skorchas or Killsaws, but after the stuff that's been changed? No way. If they do change our stats, it'll swing the other way, with D3 shot Skorchas and 1 damage PK's. Absolutely stupid. I basically painted my Biker Boss for no reason, since I almost exclusively run Deffskullz. GW have got to get their act together when it comes to making these wide-ranging changes.

Are there any HQ's left that we can even use in a mechanized list?

Biker Boss is gone, wartrike will just die now...

 Geemoney wrote:
Are there any HQ's left that we can even use in a mechanized list?

Biker Boss is gone, wartrike will just die now...

Yeah it's a bit difficult to say. You could put a warboss or weirdboy in a transport of some kind. Try to bait the enemy into shooting the trukk filled with boyz rather than the wagon with some mega nobz in it by sticking the boss in the cheaper vehicle? Could also use Da jump to get said boss where you want them to be in time with the other units? Nothing ideal I know.

Unless that Mystery Ork turns out to be something perfect for the gap left?

what mystery ork? you mean the very clearly a new boy sculpt they showed off or the tiny saw on a stick thing we still dunno where it came from?
If i had a guess that tiny saw on a stick is a new bigchoppa variant and nothing else. Killsaw ap/damage but only +1str perhaps.

terminators are going to 3w....

First list post biker boss. Let’s go...

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/790930.page#10894029

 Vineheart01 wrote:
what mystery ork? you mean the very clearly a new boy sculpt they showed off or the tiny saw on a stick thing we still dunno where it came from?
If i had a guess that tiny saw on a stick is a new bigchoppa variant and nothing else. Killsaw ap/damage but only +1str perhaps.

terminators are going to 3w....

Yeaaaaah. Meganobz only thing over their umie equivalents besides higher strength was that they had that extra wound (barring Paladins), so we don't even get that now. I highly doubt that our next codex will have Meganobz getting 4 wounds instead, so we'll see if GW is going to get another big SM backlash like the first time the supplements and their late 8th ed codex was released.

It's getting tragicomic how every time faq/errata comes orks have to fear how they got nerfed this time. One could think enough would be enough

 Vineheart01 wrote:
what mystery ork? you mean the very clearly a new boy sculpt they showed off or the tiny saw on a stick thing we still dunno where it came from?
If i had a guess that tiny saw on a stick is a new bigchoppa variant and nothing else. Killsaw ap/damage but only +1str perhaps.

terminators are going to 3w....

I dunno, of the models showed off at the same time none of them particularly screamed unit, more lieutenant level thing. Like the new SOB they actually named.

 Grimskul wrote:
Wow, I am really miffed at the changes I read today. GW's bias towards marines is increasingly annoying with how they don't only actively make them stronger but keep kicking other factions down for the sin of remotely challenging their golden boys. I was initially excited in seeing the changes for Terminators that we might receive some similar treatment to the PK, skorchas or Killsaws, but after the stuff that's been changed? No way. If they do change our stats, it'll swing the other way, with D3 shot Skorchas and 1 damage PK's. Absolutely stupid. I basically painted my Biker Boss for no reason, since I almost exclusively run Deffskullz. GW have got to get their act together when it comes to making these wide-ranging changes.

GW's act *is* together. They want to give the non-Astartes factions the barest of minimum of support to keep you spending money, and they *don't* want them beating kids who've brought their first Primaris army to the local game store and running them off.

Yeh. Marines are supposed to be the heroic guys that beat of evil bad guys. Can't have NPC factions ruining the narrative.

Question about drive-by-krumpin’ (Evil Suns player) it seems like this can also be used after the opponents shooting phase, is that correct? Has anyone had success in using it in combo with heroic intervention shenanigans or getting units contesting objectives in the opponents turn? Obviously only works if the unit involved is in a good place to take the charge? I was thinking Wartrike doing some work in the opponents turn.

Whining about marines is against this thread's rules, people.

If you feel the need to discuss these topics, join one of the dozens of other threads, keep this one about orks.

Gretchin66 wrote:
Question about drive-by-krumpin’ (Evil Suns player) it seems like this can also be used after the opponents shooting phase, is that correct? Has anyone had success in using it in combo with heroic intervention shenanigans or getting units contesting objectives in the opponents turn? Obviously only works if the unit involved is in a good place to take the charge? I was thinking Wartrike doing some work in the opponents turn.

This was quickly errata'd to be only in your own shooting phase. Which was always the clear RAI anyways

Ahh, thanks. Makes sense.

What is dump - buggies, morkonauts etc. Have no weapon options. And with a little or no filling grot mobz, there is almost nowhere where to spare fkn 13 points over limit! Grrrrrrr

So, looking at our HQ choices, I guess the top choices for my buggy líst are...

Thrakka and Badrukk in a trukk?