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crzylgs wrote:
Nice little write up on the units Tomsug but what does SMG stand for, I can't figure it out?

I am guessing Smasha Mek Gun? SMG?

crzylgs wrote:
Nice little write up on the units Tomsug but what does SMG stand for, I can't figure it out?

Not sure about the question but SMG = smasha gun and it smash units on 48” a lot is it an answer?

Table on the end of my T1. You cannot see much of his leman russes, because they are already dead (not enought LOS blocking terrain IMHO) and the smoke in the top right corner is the exploded burna bommer

^^ yes - thank you both

Smasha Gun makes perfect sense. I'm coming back to 40k after a while out and couldn't think straight.

I like your list, looks a lot of fun to play!

Edit - oooh nice looking table and well painted models, very cool.

 Tomsug wrote:
Another game with buggy list last night againts guard with a lot of leman russes and lot of guardsman.

My list 3xSJD, 3xScrapJet, 5x SMG, wartrike, wazboom, bu-bommer and battlewagon filled with 10 boyz, 4MAN and Warboss with squig. Deathskulls

- I deploy 5 SMG in line 9” from the edge, 6” in between. Works hilarious. Fire in the narrow LOS across the field for few points, sometimes moves a little bit without penalties. And makes perfect screen in my backfield againts DS + control objective
- SJD are the best, but 3 of them is a max. They control the board, objectives and do a really serious damage.
- SJ are the real workhorse. Do a lot of damage (btw. Have you seen, than their weapon profile is similar like leman russ battlecannon?), deal a MW in charge to finish stuff and die first, because everybody shoots on this source of mass rocket fire.
- wartrike flamers improved by kustom job are.... working at least? First time use it againts ideal target (20 guardsman) and it was not so impresive.
- Engage on all fronts with 3xSJD is better and easier to gain than Linebreaker
- eadbut “just” 21 MW this time
- 4 MANz with killsawa get in touch with leman russ tank commander. Just 2 of them was in close combat. I used Hit them harder and Get stuck in Ladz and this 2 MAN annihilated this tank ace in to dust.
- when the wazboom has a luck, it can kill leman russ itself.
- I think about 3 more SJs. Or KBB. However, the dense terrain makes a real trafic jams. Seriously. Buggies have a fat bases and it',s the main topic. How to move them and do not stuck in some “neck”.
- BW with deffrolla is epic model. And it' s epic to play. I take it back on table after 2 years and hey, it' s cool and like Forktress, it works.

Thanks for the report and cool list! Did you use the kustom jobs for the SJD and scrapjets?

 Dendarien wrote:


Thanks for the report and cool list! Did you use the kustom jobs for the SJD and scrapjets?

Yes. Gyro and corkscrew. Btw. I have never used the corkscrew yet. I seriously think about to change it to the Squig tyres for extra move, because 10” is pretty slow...

 Tomsug wrote:

crzylgs wrote:
Nice little write up on the units Tomsug but what does SMG stand for, I can't figure it out?

Not sure about the question but SMG = smasha gun and it smash units on 48” a lot is it an answer?

Table on the end of my T1. You cannot see much of his leman russes, because they are already dead (not enought LOS blocking terrain IMHO) and the smoke in the top right corner is the exploded burna bommer

From afar the army looks sick!

 Tomsug wrote:

crzylgs wrote:
Nice little write up on the units Tomsug but what does SMG stand for, I can't figure it out?

Not sure about the question but SMG = smasha gun and it smash units on 48” a lot is it an answer?

Table on the end of my T1. You cannot see much of his leman russes, because they are already dead (not enought LOS blocking terrain IMHO) and the smoke in the top right corner is the exploded burna bommer

Love those Skrapjetbike conversions, might have to steal the concept.

Steal it! In my gallery there, you can see some details.

But anyhow - this topic is about tactics. So srapjets with corkscrew or squig tyres?

Had a game today. This time I played as csm that my friend brought while I landed him some of my orks. I got no buggies tho, so, some were his, some were proxies.
Twas a 1k pt game and orks ran a buggy list containing: trike, 3 scraps, 2 sjd, 3 mek gunz, trukkboyz
Csm ran Abaddon, sorc, 2 defilers, 1 helbrute, 2*5 Marines, 10 cultists.

There was some severe lack of cover due to us playing at the dacha (country house) and not at the city gaming club. I think that impacted the game quite a lot cause orks removed half the cam army turn 1.
Unfortunately for orks, csm proved to be exceptionally good in mellee vs buggies and 500 pt of csm wrecked 500 pt of orks in return.
We played just 2 turns but it was a single mek gun and 1 sjd remaining vs 8 cultists, 2 Marines and a 10-wound defiler. Decided to call it even and proceed drinking tea and eating tasties.

Some highlights:
-Kustom job wartrike with a deathskull warlord trait sniped a sorc turn 1. It's a valid tactic I haven't considered previously.
-Buggies are very good vs vehicle lists. Scrapjet one-shot a helbrute turn 1, 2 sjd shot 11 wounds off a t7 5++ defiler like no big deal. Later on, 1 sjd took 7 wounds off abaddon with 4++ and a rule to halve received wounds.
-Buggies don't hold a punch. And if you bunch them up, get multi charged and wrecked by something nasty like defilers or abaddon. Got to keep distance both from friends and foes.
- Boyz didn't do anything. Were a complete waste of pts and just offered effective targets for bolters and auto guns after the trukk got shot down by a defiler.
- Mek gunz (3 auto-hitting ones) might be ok but buggies do compete with then now. Not sure what's better if you still got slots for more buggies.

Here's a photo. Once again, don't judge too harsh.

 koooaei wrote:
Had a game today. This time I played as csm that my friend brought while I landed him some of my orks. I got no buggies tho, so, some were his, some were proxies.
Twas a 1k pt game and orks ran a buggy list containing: trike, 3 scraps, 2 sjd, 3 mek gunz, trukkboyz
Csm ran Abaddon, sorc, 2 defilers, 1 helbrute, 2*5 Marines, 10 cultists.

There was some severe lack of cover due to us playing at the dacha (country house) and not at the city gaming club. I think that impacted the game quite a lot cause orks removed half the cam army turn 1.
Unfortunately for orks, csm proved to be exceptionally good in mellee vs buggies and 500 pt of csm wrecked 500 pt of orks in return.
We played just 2 turns but it was a single mek gun and 1 sjd remaining vs 8 cultists, 2 Marines and a 10-wound defiler. Decided to call it even and proceed drinking tea and eating tasties.

Some highlights:
-Kustom job wartrike with a deathskull warlord trait sniped a sorc turn 1. It's a valid tactic I haven't considered previously.
-Buggies are very good vs vehicle lists. Scrapjet one-shot a helbrute turn 1, 2 sjd shot 11 wounds off a t7 5++ defiler like no big deal. Later on, 1 sjd took 7 wounds off abaddon with 4++ and a rule to halve received wounds.
-Buggies don't hold a punch. And if you bunch them up, get multi charged and wrecked by something nasty like defilers or abaddon. Got to keep distance both from friends and foes.
- Boyz didn't do anything. Were a complete waste of pts and just offered effective targets for bolters and auto guns after the trukk got shot down by a defiler.
- Mek gunz (3 auto-hitting ones) might be ok but buggies do compete with then now. Not sure what's better if you still got slots for more buggies.

Here's a photo. Once again, don't judge too harsh.

Spoiler:

Thanks for sharing! I'm surprised to see you went for the Opportunist route for the Wartrike, most lists I see don't have him as their Warlord since he's comparatively fragile to a Biggest Boss upgraded Warboss, even if it is now only relegated to the foot version. Do you feel like you'd take him again with the WL trait? I feel that with his speed and how it's harder for characters to gain LoS that it might not even be necessary in some cases.

Also, out of curiosity, what were your trukkboyz equipped with? While I definitely agree they are a liability the instant they're forced out of their transports (no other options for us tbh when grots are so expensive), having the kombi-rokkit on the Nob with Deffskullz and being shoota boyz means that for the most part, while the trukk lives, that their dakka output is relatively decent for plinking wounds off of units and dealing with chaff.

Though like you said, you were playing an atypical game with the terrain not being the norm, so I wouldn't take the results of your battle without its full context. At least it sounded like you had fun!

So seems like a fair few people are getting the vibe that boyz in trukks just don't hold enough impact, and well all know in their current status grots are hilariously over priced.

Do you peeps reckon it's worth biting the CP bullet and building around one of the detachments that don't give you CP back? That's an extra couple hundred points you can use for other units in other slots. Mind you i'm not a deffskull player so can't really just plonk any old infantry with obsec onto an objective.

 Grimskul wrote:

Thanks for sharing! I'm surprised to see you went for the Opportunist route for the Wartrike, most lists I see don't have him as their Warlord since he's comparatively fragile to a Biggest Boss upgraded Warboss, even if it is now only relegated to the foot version. Do you feel like you'd take him again with the WL trait? I feel that with his speed and how it's harder for characters to gain LoS that it might not even be necessary in some cases.

Also, out of curiosity, what were your trukkboyz equipped with? While I definitely agree they are a liability the instant they're forced out of their transports (no other options for us tbh when grots are so expensive), having the kombi-rokkit on the Nob with Deffskullz and being shoota boyz means that for the most part, while the trukk lives, that their dakka output is relatively decent for plinking wounds off of units and dealing with chaff.

Though like you said, you were playing an atypical game with the terrain not being the norm, so I wouldn't take the results of your battle without its full context. At least it sounded like you had fun!

cody.d. wrote:
So seems like a fair few people are getting the vibe that boyz in trukks just don't hold enough impact, and well all know in their current status grots are hilariously over priced.

Do you peeps reckon it's worth biting the CP bullet and building around one of the detachments that don't give you CP back? That's an extra couple hundred points you can use for other units in other slots. Mind you i'm not a deffskull player so can't really just plonk any old infantry with obsec onto an objective.

Trukkboyz had rokkit, kombirokkit and a klaw. We had nowhere to spend 30 pts. And now, in the hindsight, mek might have been better for scoring as he could have hidden in ruins and just provide easier secondary pts from "hold 3-4 quarters".Or could have even fixed sjd. Anyways, boyz did feel like a tax cause they cost like a buggy yet require a trukk, have quite below average shooting and don't hold even the weakest punch to hold onto objective. They are indeed just a tax unit. As for taking them or not, it's hard to say. Orks really lacked cp. They were basically over turn 1 and than he just got +1 for being battleforgee each turn. If he didn't get 3 cp refunded for bringing trukkboyz, it'd been even worse. Hard to tell yet. I'm fairly disappointed with them. And I have >100 boyz and 3 trukks. I think, you could easily replace them with grots and save 30 pts. I did it in 8th and it was worthwhile. In larger games...maybe if you're running a gun wagon and need more Dakka each turn - especially since -1 to hit is so easy to obtain now, from what I read.

As for the warlord trait, we gave it a try and it was a thing. You can't always clear the way to shoot at a character. Both the trike and 4++ boss are not tough enough to survive early on. Heck, Abaddon himself got basically one-shot by a single sjj. And he halves received wounds. I'm not sure if parking lots with buff characters are still a thing, but if they are, a burns bomber's eadbutt + sniper trike will have decent chances at taking out any support character.

One way to use a boyz (or grots) seems to be to put 10 in BW with meganobz and let them die during explosion instead of meganobz and fill 1 mandatory troop slot in Patrol.

The second is green tide army. I ' ve registred a couple of people celebrationg victory with army like this.

Truckboyz like supporting objective grabers failed in my games also because of the same reason and give them a rocket launcher was a waste of points.

I managed to fly back to Ireland and create a 9th edition Nerd Mecca on the coast in a tent large enought to fit a 40k board. I got 8 games in against 3 opponents. 2 were custodes (running variations of an all foot termie list and a termie and bike mixed list) with the third being a deathguard list (3 PBC list with their new 4++ PA relic) (Deathguard player also had tsons but the orks never played them.)

I finished 4:4 but with the majority of wins coming at the end as I got used to how orks play in 9th.

I tried some varients but by the end my list was as below




Deathskulls patrol gave my MANZ obsec and the reroll bonuses for hitting and wounded helped the battlewagon. The cybork body and 6++ helped to make the warboss on foot slightly more survivable since you can't take the bigger boss and its lovely 4++ if ghaz is in your army

The mixed detachment gave me access to the skarboyz strat, the showin off strat for the tankbustas and the drive by shooting for the deffkopta (this allowed me to get engage on all fronts t1 easily)

The painboy has the kunnin but brutal warlord strat allowing me to relocate himself and d3 of the other goffs (allowing me to relocate at a minimum Ghaz or the burna bommer depending on me going first or second) the medi squig strat giving ghaz d3 wounds back is a necessity. The 6+++ he gave to the boyz was a nice bonus

Points to take away:

Ghaz is a beast and is hands down the nicest model I've ever owned. The painboy (who should be hidden from snipers/custodes that can snipe) means it will take at a minimum of 4 turns to get rid of him. I tried Makari but honestly the type of weapons and number of shots means the 6+++ for Ghaz didn't often work out. His 2++ was a pain but seeing as the painboy is better he's redundant.

I missed out on the goff exploding 6s but 1) 30 boyz don't need exploding sixes 2) if they're near ghaz (which they should be with such a large footprint) they get +1 attack and reroll 1s to hit.

Speaking of...30 boyz is still good.......maybe even better. Against 3 PBC mortars with flat 6 shots each (and reroll all wounds) you're still only taking around 5 casualties on average if you have the kff and painboy nearby. Same maths for basilisks. New morale means the squad survives after taking a pummeling which is huge especially for secondaries like raise the banner and data intercept. I tried multiple 10 boyz squads in earlier games but they require so much less shooting to disappear. The threat of green tiding them is way less.

MANZ were good especially loaded into the battlewagon. MANZ on foot can still shift if supported by either ghaz or the warboss allowing them to advance and charge. point to note DO NOT START THEM IN DENSE COVER. A 2" move will mean they'll struggle to get out in one go

Tankbustas are the bomb especially combo'd with da jump. Its nice when they survive but its all about trading up with them. I love bomb squigs. Against a vehicle heavy list the more dakka strat combo'd with showin off is lethal. Custodes do have a way to turn off all rerolls on one unit (normally the telemon) so fire the bs2+ bombsquigs into that unit (especially when they explode on 5s) and the rokkits into any fly vehicles.

Burna bommer is mega. The ability to relocate him using kunnin but brutal is clutch. Going first and Flying eadbutt t1 leaves a sour taste in your opponents mouth. Removing a couple of custodian guard t1 will leave a smile on yours. Honestly i flying eadbutted him t1 every game I played.

Overall I think orks are in a really good place. Tough to play and fairly unforgiving but still damned fun.

I am considering replacing the weirdboy with two deathskull deffkoptas and putting the tankbustas in deep strike with the teleporta strat which would open up the abhor the witch secondary and keep them safe t1. Deffkoptas don't look great on first glance but they allow you to focus on "engage on all fronts". Also I've converted 3 custodes bikes into them so I'm looking to use them

Two points did come up over the week.

1) Whether using "get stuck in ladz" on a unit that charged means it can fight twice before any of your opponents units that didn't charge, I didn't try it but if you can then that squad of 30 skarboyz or the MANZ are even better

2) If a custodes biker squad "swooning dives" into you do they get to fight before even your own units that charged. I don't have the wording of the strat with me but if anyone knows please reply

Any questions welcome





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why my flag comes up as russian federation I don't know....

cody.d. wrote:
So seems like a fair few people are getting the vibe that boyz in trukks just don't hold enough impact, and well all know in their current status grots are hilariously over priced.

Do you peeps reckon it's worth biting the CP bullet and building around one of the detachments that don't give you CP back? That's an extra couple hundred points you can use for other units in other slots. Mind you i'm not a deffskull player so can't really just plonk any old infantry with obsec onto an objective.

I have considered but i run out of heavy support or fast attack slots then :/

CaptainO wrote:

1) Whether using "get stuck in ladz" on a unit that charged means it can fight twice before any of your opponents units that didn't charge, I didn't try it but if you can then that squad of 30 skarboyz or the MANZ are even better

The stratagem can only be used at the end of the fight phase.

2) If a custodes biker squad "swooning dives" into you do they get to fight before even your own units that charged. I don't have the wording of the strat with me but if anyone knows please reply

Yes, they do, it's one of the few rules that allows you to fight before units that fight first.

Thanks Jidmah.

The reason there is a bit of dispute about "get stuck in lads" is that in the 9th rulebook it states

"If a rule allow a unit to fight again then it will pile in make close combat attacks and consolidate again. Treat each time a unit is selected to Fight as a separate unit being selected to fight for all rules purposes. This means that after it has fought for the first time in a phase your opponent can chose an eligible unit to fight with before you fight with your unit for a second time(you need not use both of the units oppurtunities to fight - unless of course there are no other eligible units to select to fight with. If such a unit charged this turn, it will still fight both times before any units that did not charge. Note that any rule that interurupts the normal sequence of who fights first can be use to fight in between the units first and second fight."

Its the bit there that says "if such a unit charged this turn it will still fight both times before any units that didnt charge".

Similarly there is flowchart that on goonhammer that seems to think you no longer have to wait till the end. I'm looking forward to the discussion.

 Tomsug wrote:
One way to use a boyz (or grots) seems to be to put 10 in BW with meganobz and let them die during explosion instead of meganobz and fill 1 mandatory troop slot in Patrol.

The second is green tide army. I ' ve registred a couple of people celebrationg victory with army like this.

Truckboyz like supporting objective grabers failed in my games also because of the same reason and give them a rocket launcher was a waste of points.

I agree about rokkits, take them only if you have 10-20 spared points and no idea how to use them. While embarked they can't even benefit from the Deathskullz re-rolls.

Trukk boyz are good (decent actually) if you have tons of T5+ bodies. But really a lot, not just a BW, two trukks and a flyer in a 2000 points game. For just +30 (or +40 if nob has a killsaw) points I'd suggest replacing those grots with boyz unless you really struggle with points.

CaptainO wrote:
Thanks Jidmah.

The reason there is a bit of dispute about "get stuck in lads" is that in the 9th rulebook it states

"If a rule allow a unit to fight again then it will pile in make close combat attacks and consolidate again. Treat each time a unit is selected to Fight as a separate unit being selected to fight for all rules purposes. This means that after it has fought for the first time in a phase your opponent can chose an eligible unit to fight with before you fight with your unit for a second time(you need not use both of the units oppurtunities to fight - unless of course there are no other eligible units to select to fight with. If such a unit charged this turn, it will still fight both times before any units that did not charge. Note that any rule that interurupts the normal sequence of who fights first can be use to fight in between the units first and second fight."

Its the bit there that says "if such a unit charged this turn it will still fight both times before any units that didnt charge".

Similarly there is flowchart that on goonhammer that seems to think you no longer have to wait till the end. I'm looking forward to the discussion.

That doesn't matter at all and is probably aimed at unit like berzerkers which just fight twice as part of their rules.

The stratagem explicitly says "play at the end of the fight phase". You play the stratagem, you fight immediately. If there are still other units eligible to fight, it's not the end of the fight phase and therefore you cannot use the stratagem.

Ya you're probably right. The faq that changed the original wording to that strikes again. Tbh being able to fight twice consecutively would be OP.

Were beserkers able to fight back to back in 8th edition?

Well, I had a test game against Blood Angels where we approximated the upcoming Space Marine changes.

-We added 4ppm and +1W to a 7-man squad of Death Company

-We used the new weapons profiles for HOGC, melta rifles, power fists/power weapons, and the weaponry on the Invictor Warsuit. We did not add any pts cost for these improvements

Still ended up winning the game relatively convincingly. My opponent handed my Killa Klaw biggest boss a massive killcount by hugely underestimating his threat range as Evil Sunz hopping out of a Bonebreaka turn 1, where he proceeded to instakill a Repulsor (killing one of the Bladeguard that was inside it) then he was able to stay alive vs a squad of BA assault intercessors thanks to his invul, interrupt and kill the captain, then Orks is Never Beaten to kill the Bladeguard and a few intercessors after they killed him. I spent 5CP on the boss and he killed nearly 650pts all by himself.

I think the current competitive buggy/Kustom Job spamming lists will still have good teeth against the new marine lists. We spam enough D3/D2 weaponry that it almost just results in our marine opponents having 20% less firepower to throw at us while we kill them nearly as fast.

Couple of pointers for playing against Custodes if anyone is interested.

Da jumping or deep striking within 9” of any of their termies is a bad idea. They’ve a similar strat to the marines suspected scan that is participating effective on a squad of 5+ Allarus. They’re less effected that marines too only going to a bs3+ due to the -1. You’ll be deepstriking away from kff cover and being honest charging Custodes with anything less than MANZ is a bad idea. 2+ armour is our boyz weakness.


Unit blocking is less effected as they also have a strat to heroically intervene any unit 3”

They also have a strat to turn off all rerolls against one of their units. This is particularly painful against tankbustas who rely on their Reroll to hit vehicle against their Telemon or callidus Grav tanks. The deathskulls 2cp strat to Reroll wounds against a vehicle would be particularly sickening to cancel.

Custodes hate Burna bommers mortal wounds. Kunnin but brutal allowed me to keep the plane safe if I didn’t go first.

They also hate Ghaz thanks to his flat 4 klaw due to their w3 guardians and 4w termies. Again they do have a strat to reduce damage by 1 which can hurt tankbustas (and I assume lootas and flashgitz) thankfully by the time Ghaz is in their lines they’re low on cp.

Big take away was that splitting fire in order to draw out strats is viable. Custodes units are so tough against a lot of our shooting (their termies also have a strat to ignore ap-1 and ap-2 shots, 90% of our shooting) that wiping out a squad is tough t1 anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and I almost forgot the most important point. They have a 1cp strat to add d6 to either your charge or movement effectively making charging from deep strike impossible. At 1cp they’ll use it More than once and it’s equally effective on units not deep striking in.

cody.d. wrote:
So seems like a fair few people are getting the vibe that boyz in trukks just don't hold enough impact, and well all know in their current status grots are hilariously over priced.

Do you peeps reckon it's worth biting the CP bullet and building around one of the detachments that don't give you CP back? That's an extra couple hundred points you can use for other units in other slots. Mind you i'm not a deffskull player so can't really just plonk any old infantry with obsec onto an objective.

Yes.

Mechanized Orks don't need that much CP. This is a hold over from when you needed 4+ CP a turn for your SSAG (More Dakka, Shoot Twice, grot shields, command re-roll for shots, strength, etc...), or similar for Lootas, or 3-5 CP for green tide (Green Tide + auto pass morale).

We know from the two GT winners two style of lists might have some potential (taking into account this is a SMALL dataset...): Boy Tide w/ Ghaz, and outrider buggy list. Neither features trukk boys.

I think Trukk boys are absolutely fine in semi-competitive, beerhammer lists. On top table play? I dunno. You have to lean into your strength. I think going double patrol, just for that extra heavy/fast/HQ slot is going to be super common, so just spending that 1 extra CP to avoid troops altogether? Sure, why not? As you stated, 10 boys + transport is in the range of 160 points (once you upgrade the boys to a Rocket, and give the nob a proper weapon). Gaining back 320 points... that's a Mork, or 3 Mega Trakks / Shock Dragstas. If you think 2 trukk boys + 1 cp is as impactful as a Mork, then I dunno what to tell you.

Agree, spending 2 or 3 CP on a patrol detachment or an outrider to reduce troop tax should be no problem for a vehicle list.

The most important stratagems besides kustom jobs and other upgrades are probably ramming speed, 'eadbut and moar dakka, followed by some more situational ones like temperamental dreaded death machine, hit 'em harder, shokkdrive or burnin' highway which can be supported by the CP you regenerate.

Yeah, if I had multiples of the same buggy I'd probably be running my list as only an outrider. But because I have 1 of each, I need 8 FA slots for my speed freeks list lol - so an extra patrol it is.

On the bright side, my single squad of Boyz who just hang in the bonebreaka I was already bringing buys me reroll 1s to hit on allllllll my shooty buggies, thanks to them being able to be Bad Moonz while the patrol with the melee focused stuff runs Evil Sunz.

Well worth the 90pts!

I just run the snazzwagon as KBB and the squigbuggy as scrapjet. No opponent ever had an issue with that, as the armaments of the buggies roughly match.

Hi
Not so many FREEBOOTERZ list around anymore since the FLASH GITZ has become expensive.
I am still tempted to try this culture out at 2k with my 18 Mek Gunz and two Morkanouts plus one or two Battle Wagons . Have not hammered out the details jet.
Someone that has tried something similar? Comments are appreciated!

Jidmah wrote:
... yes?
Boyz are pretty much the least fun part of orks to me. Such a change would obviously increase wounds on nobz by one as well.

Well okay fair. I haven't been a fan of them since 5th but still. Also I wouldn't say obviously. When the Exarch got 2w marine sgts didn't. GW isn't known historically for consistency.

Vineheart01 wrote:i'd have to agree.

While i dont want the model to go away because thats a LOT of plasticcrack that is 100% useless that every ork player has, and you will always have that random guy that does like green tide for some reason get really mad his total number of models dropped by like 30%, but i do wish boyz were more powerful so i didnt need AS many of them.

Not to mention in their current form theyre largely useless outside the random Deathskullz rokkit shot or full 30man blobs. If they were retuned to be 5-20 but were tougher/deadlier as well, the transport vs footslog wouldnt be as big of an issue. You wouldnt be paying for a rule you almost never, ever get to use (20+ = +1 attack).

I'm with this guy. Making Boyz 2W and or removing them isn't a good solution. Granted they used to be 5-15 man. And 10 was a "big" unit. GW really struggles with model efficacy and "oh let's sell more and everyone run hordes" Or "play Apocalypse so here is 100 marines for not too much coin.

Vineheart01 wrote:5pt grots will never make sense

I feel it could have stopped here.

Vineheart01 wrote:They said all armies are getting redesigned old modles/wargear not just marines.

Is that true? oof....

miscNouns wrote:I'm just getting back into 40k after a hiatus since tail end of 5th/ beginning of 6th. Are Zagstruk and stormboyz any good now? I've heard that 9th is pretty objective based so I was thinking maybe there is some use in 3 10-man squads for board control

You know,.. deathskull ones can get across the board really fast and have Ob Sec and start fiddling with enemies objective claiming for 60 points? Sure they'll die but Orks die and your opponent won't be shooting you off other objectives. Kommandos do it cheaper but why not both?

koooaei wrote:
Here's a photo. Once again, don't judge too harsh.

I see the baby stroller. As one dad to another?, no judgment.

Nora wrote:Hi
Not so many FREEBOOTERZ list around anymore since the FLASH GITZ has become expensive.

I really liked Freebooterz at the end of last edition. even before the points drop which just made the list better. I think with Dmg 2 and marines being 2W we may see more even if not in a Freebooterz kulture. 5+ in a trukk or BW can do some work.

Is that true? oof....

Yeah, it was in the article confirming the marine buffs that all armies are getting some.
They just didnt reveal any except for Necrons (and of course as things marines, revealed like 3x as many marine ones as they did necrons) and didnt say anything about how/when the other armies are getting them.

Apparently auspex tactics stated that all armies get an faq when the SM and necron codex drops. I hope to god that is true. That would take the sting out the old codexes.

But that might be just regarding the imperium armies.