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The only change I would make to that goffs list (and goonhammer covered it in their faction focus) is to make the patrol a grot mob and move the smasha guns in there. No reason not to I think

 Billagio wrote:
The only change I would make to that goffs list (and goonhammer covered it in their faction focus) is to make the patrol a grot mob and move the smasha guns in there. No reason not to I think

I guess to heal the weirdboy with the Painboy from a perils?

But you could easily swap the KFF mek down and not lose anything either if that's a concern if you wanted to take Grot mobs.

The only reason I could think not to move them to the patrol is so that way you don't have to worry about losing any smasha gunz to failed morale checks, since they are only Ld4

Edit: It looks like I can't read. They are treated as independent units after deployment so it doesn't look like there is any downside to having them all be in a grot mob detachment

miscNouns wrote:
The only reason I could think not to move them to the patrol is so that way you don't have to worry about losing any smasha gunz to failed morale checks, since they are only Ld4

They are all independent units. Morale is a non-issue.

Smashas break up into individual units, the only ork vehicle unit in the game are grot tanks and killakanz.
Ironically, both with just as crappy leadership.

tulun wrote:

miscNouns wrote:
The only reason I could think not to move them to the patrol is so that way you don't have to worry about losing any smasha gunz to failed morale checks, since they are only Ld4

They are all independent units. Morale is a non-issue.

Until your idiot best friend deep strikes a lone deathwing librarian into your backfield and starts mindwiping your mek guns just because he can.

True story.

Anyone use lootas? I played a casual game of 9th with a friend who was running Deathwatch at 1500 points. My list was basically 3 big mobs of boyz plus a few buggies and wartrike baked up by 10 lootas and some other little units. The lootas Absolutely battered Primaris to death using the most dakka strat and death skulls re roll. In the end they killed 3 Primaris kill teams I was amazed at their fire power.

I think Lootas have sort of fallen out of favor. They can slap out damage for sure, but require protection, CP investment and are so incredibly swingy.

Lootas died to me the moment cover went to a modifier instead of a static 4+/5+ save.
They die way too easy w/o a 4+, even in older editions they died fairly quick the moment an ignore cover found them.

I would have pointed more to the various stratagems that can cancel stratagems. Meaning grot shields aren't reliable any more. (Grots going up in points and not being as mandatory to fill out detachments certainly doesn't help.)

Yeah Lootas are too expensive for how fragile they are and -1AP isn't really enough to cut it against the plethora of marines kicking about. They're also quite static without using Moar dakka, which can be a liability in the new edition since even Mek Gunz can move forward (even if very slowly) without having to worry about losing accuracy. They either need a points cut or have the deffgun buffed in some way (like flat 3 shots or AP-2) to justify their cost.

It kinda sucks because I feel like their unit is iconic of Deffskullz as a klan who is known for being hoarders of loot, so even if I were to try them out, I don't know if they'd be better off in a trukk or on foot.

Personally I've really taken a shine to tankbustas. A lot of the same issues but better Str, AP and damage, with a re-roll against their preferred target. Yeah you get less shots but at least you know exactly how many you're getting so you can build a plan around them. Kind of wish their ability worked against monsters as well though. Makes sense thematically and you don't feel hamstringed when you come across the odd tau or nid player.

Not sure if there's any interest, but I think a couple of really good Ork players discuss what they think of 9th and their games so far.

One primarily plays Mech (buggy), other plays horde, both they think have legs (as we've seen).

It's long, though.

https://bestinfaction.libsyn.com/64-faction-focus-orks-is-da-best

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Anyone use lootas? I played a casual game of 9th with a friend who was running Deathwatch at 1500 points. My list was basically 3 big mobs of boyz plus a few buggies and wartrike baked up by 10 lootas and some other little units. The lootas Absolutely battered Primaris to death using the most dakka strat and death skulls re roll. In the end they killed 3 Primaris kill teams I was amazed at their fire power.

Lootas being 20ppm and Gretchins being 5ppm killed them completely, and I wasn't a big fan of Lootas even in 8th.

For the same amount of poinits invested in Lootas + Gretchins or just only Lootas you could field tons fo Smasha Gunz which are capable of more damage against Primaris, they don't need CPs to work, and they're much more resilient. One Smasha Gun is exactly two Lootas:

2 Lootas: 2W T4 6+ and 2D3 BS5+ S7 AP-1 D2
Smasha Gun: 5W T5 5+ and D3 BS4+ S* (equivalent or better than S7 against T4/5) AP-4 DD6


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cody.d. wrote:
Personally I've really taken a shine to tankbustas. A lot of the same issues but better Str, AP and damage, with a re-roll against their preferred target. Yeah you get less shots but at least you know exactly how many you're getting so you can build a plan around them. Kind of wish their ability worked against monsters as well though. Makes sense thematically and you don't feel hamstringed when you come across the odd tau or nid player.

How do you play them? Deepstrike, shielded by gretchins or embarked? Since they've lost their re-roll while inside a vehicle I've shelved them completely, I loved them in 8th and was excited that they didn't go up a point in 9th (actually a single point considering the full trukk unit, 254 vs 255, lol) but they have been nerfed quite badly with the new rules about firing from a vehicle.

In a mechanized list, you could put your lootas in a trukk and sit them somewhere behind some -1 to hit terrain. I feel like that would be a royal PITA to remove, and it's not like they need to move anywhere. Particularly in a buggy list, where you're going to have a bunch of stuff running around the board scoring points and the loota trukk is going to be chilling in the background, i think that's got some legs in a primaris-heavy meta.

Lootas I'd say would be one of those units where, yes, they're inefficient in some kind of theoretical perfect faction-spread environment, but over here in reality where you'll have intercessors to shoot nearly every game, they can be a useful piece to have.

They are a bit boring though. Basically just reflavored Mek Gunz.

It doesn' t make sence to move lootas in transport. What makes sence is ae a max squad, deploy them T1 behind the biggest runins, Da Jump them to the firing position, More Dakka to ignore penalties for heavy + move and than Bad Moons shoot twice (still with More Dakka).

This is Devastating. Do not bother with +1sv. Who cares? It doesn' t save anything. If enemy concentrate fire, than the lootas are dead. Only hope is grot shield = you spent about 5CP per turn just on lootas + have 10-30 grots in front of them. This was great in 8th. With cheap grots and lootas. But now? Lootas can' t hold objective. 1W and t-shirt save = they' re dead.

 Tomsug wrote:
It doesn' t make sence to move lootas in transport. What makes sence is ae a max squad, deploy them T1 behind the biggest runins, Da Jump them to the firing position, More Dakka to ignore penalties for heavy + move and than Bad Moons shoot twice (still with More Dakka).

This is Devastating. Do not bother with +1sv. Who cares? It doesn' t save anything. If enemy concentrate fire, than the lootas are dead. Only hope is grot shield = you spent about 5CP per turn just on lootas + have 10-30 grots in front of them. This was great in 8th. With cheap grots and lootas. But now? Lootas can' t hold objective. 1W and t-shirt save = they' re dead.

If I'm running mech orks, I'm only starting with 5-6CP. I'd rather spend 65 points on a trukk than whatever 50 points on a weirdboy to da jump them and then 2CP so they can still shoot good.

You don't move the lootas in the transport. You just sit the trukk behind some dense cover and use their 48" range. a -1 to hit trukk 48" away is a ridiculously low-priority target for most opponents.

I'm in agreement that the old, super-spendy approach does not really work anymore. I'm saying that, into a heavy primaris meta and in an ork meta where you don't have tons of CP to burn, spending a few more points just to use them as an anti-MEQ fire support unit seems to be able to work pretty well, they get several turns of uninterrupted shooting and if they are distracting they tend to be a pretty inefficient target to shoot, because you have to kill a whole trukk before you're able to even take shots at the -1 to hit lootas.

I agree that a trukk in a mechanized list is a better way to protect the lootas than Da Jump or Grot Shields.

10 lootas and a trukk are 265 points though. With no re-rolls or DDD.

A full battery of Smasha Gunz is cheaper, more effective and more resilient and Da Boomer is just 175 + 1 CP for arguably the same amount of firepower.

Tactics with lootas involving Da Jump and massed CPs invested on them were good when we could field the 25 unit and start with 18 (or more) CPs. Not anymore. Just play tankbustas that way, they're more killy than lootas against the appropriate target and probably require less CPs.

 Blackie wrote:
I agree that a trukk in a mechanized list is a better way to protect the lootas than Da Jump or Grot Shields.

10 lootas and a trukk are 265 points though. With no re-rolls or DDD.

A full battery of Smasha Gunz is cheaper, more effective and more resilient and Da Boomer is just 175 + 1 CP for arguably the same amount of firepower.

Tactics with lootas involving Da Jump and massed CPs invested on them were good when we could field the 25 unit and start with 18 (or more) CPs. Not anymore. Just play tankbustas that way, they're more killy than lootas against the appropriate target and probably require less CPs.

I feel like they're pretty balanced against Da Boomer, because 1, it does cost CP, 2, your opponent puts the same amount of firepower into Da Boomer as the lootas' trukk and they've at least reduced Da Boomer's firepower by about 45% while the lootas are only lose 17% firepower (from the trukk being destroyed killing 1.7 lootas).

They're definitely outdone by smashas, especially in cheeky zoggers.

Personally I don't find something not doing the job quite as good as the single best option in the entire codex disqualifies them from usefulness entirely if someone owns the models for them but happens to not own $330 of Smasha Gunz.

Reduced booma firepower? How?
Wagons of all variants dont degrade their BS. In fact i dont think any ork codex model does (some forgeworld does for some odd reason)
Its speed, strength, and attacks change. Periscope max distance changes but largely who cares i've rarely moved it more than a couple inches anyway, usually after i move it once it never moves again.

Lootas lose firepower for every single wound after that trukk blows up, dabooma is firing at full power until it either cant hit anything w/o moving 6" (unlikely) or blows up.

Also dabooma really only eats 1cp, ever. Only time ive popped moar dakka on it was when i was using it to snipe a plane out of the air. Lootas will eat 2-4 every turn theyre alive.

How they spend 2-4? The guy is using trukk, -1 to hit and range to protect rather than grot　screen.

Edit: also not benefitting from rerolls and ddd inside trukk　also helps survival as they are even　less of a priority for opponent to take out rather than 'nauts, battlewagons or buggy　swarm

Where do you place the Grot Tanks and Grot Mega tank here on this list?

Why on earth would you run lootas to kill primaris? They suck at killing them, especially if those marines are in cover.

Even with moar dakka on it, a unit of 15 lootas which is 300 points right now, kills and average of 4 primaris marines out of cover and just 2 in cover.
Even if you hit the jackpot and catch a unit of hellblasters out of cover, we are talking about killing 132 points of marines with the points equivalent of a naut or three buggies.
And don't even think about shooting aggressors or erradicators with them.

Lootas never have and never will be good at killing marines and never will be. 2 damage doesn't automatically make you good at killing primaris.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
Where do you place the Grot Tanks and Grot Mega tank here on this list?

Red? They are strictly worse than some units in the yellow to blue area.

Beardedragon wrote:
Where do you place the Grot Tanks and Grot Mega tank here on this list?

I would say "generally useless, just run your GMT as a skrapjet and your Grot Tanks as...I don't know, Mek Gunz?"




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually that's not a bad idea. Mek Gunz and Grot Tanks are about the same size....

What if i run that Grot detatchment that makes Grots more useful? where are the Grot tanks then? and Mega tank

Beardedragon wrote:
What if i run that Grot detatchment that makes Grots more useful? where are the Grot tanks then? and Mega tank

Same boat. The grot mega tank is just a shockingly bad vehicle for the cost, there are a number of good things to run it as - booma battlewagon, shokkjump dragsta, various and sundry other FW choices, and grot tanks are basically just killa kanz with "fun" random movement and no melee capability.

the_scotsman wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
What if i run that Grot detatchment that makes Grots more useful? where are the Grot tanks then? and Mega tank

Same boat. The grot mega tank is just a shockingly bad vehicle for the cost, there are a number of good things to run it as - booma battlewagon, shokkjump dragsta, various and sundry other FW choices, and grot tanks are basically just killa kanz with "fun" random movement and no melee capability.

with that 1+ to hit for the Grot special detatchment i thought maybe the Grot mega tank which sits around 130 points could be a decent shooting platform

Grot detachment is reroll 1s not +1 to hit.

I ran the grottanks (both of them) a few times in 8th and had pretty good success but they got hyked to hell and back in 9th for some reason. Killakanz too.
A killakan should not be 1-3pts more than a grottank...

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Grot detachment is reroll 1s not +1 to hit.

I ran the grottanks (both of them) a few times in 8th and had pretty good success but they got hyked to hell and back in 9th for some reason. Killakanz too.
A killakan should not be 1-3pts more than a grottank...

yea.. i mean i received for free 4 grot tanks from Kromlech i wanted to put to use, so i thought about putting them in that Grot detatchment for 1+ hit (i think thats what it did anyway) for vehicles.

thats why i wanted to know how high or low they were on the rating

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Reduced booma firepower? How?
Wagons of all variants dont degrade their BS. In fact i dont think any ork codex model does (some forgeworld does for some odd reason)
Its speed, strength, and attacks change. Periscope max distance changes but largely who cares i've rarely moved it more than a couple inches anyway, usually after i move it once it never moves again.

Lootas lose firepower for every single wound after that trukk blows up, dabooma is firing at full power until it either cant hit anything w/o moving 6" (unlikely) or blows up.

Also dabooma really only eats 1cp, ever. Only time ive popped moar dakka on it was when i was using it to snipe a plane out of the air. Lootas will eat 2-4 every turn theyre alive.

I think the Wazbom degrades in BS, actually all the planes might, I'm not by my codex atm but I'm 100% sure the wazbom degrades with BS as I used to use 3 in 8th