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The planes go to BS6+ yes.

Beardedragon wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Grot detachment is reroll 1s not +1 to hit.

I ran the grottanks (both of them) a few times in 8th and had pretty good success but they got hyked to hell and back in 9th for some reason. Killakanz too.
A killakan should not be 1-3pts more than a grottank...

yea.. i mean i received for free 4 grot tanks from Kromlech i wanted to put to use, so i thought about putting them in that Grot detatchment for 1+ hit (i think thats what it did anyway) for vehicles.

thats why i wanted to know how high or low they were on the rating

Run them as a battery of mek gunz. That'd be the best use for 'em. Grot tanks are essentially killa kanz, which are bad, with no melee capability and a random move characteristic, which is worse. I think they also have like 1 fewer wound, and the grot detachment gets you a 6++ invuln save which sadly the grot tank already has, so it doesn't benefit from it.

Just run them as mek gunz. If your opponent asks why they only move like 3" just explain they're really slow tanks XD

the_scotsman wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Grot detachment is reroll 1s not +1 to hit.

I ran the grottanks (both of them) a few times in 8th and had pretty good success but they got hyked to hell and back in 9th for some reason. Killakanz too.
A killakan should not be 1-3pts more than a grottank...

yea.. i mean i received for free 4 grot tanks from Kromlech i wanted to put to use, so i thought about putting them in that Grot detatchment for 1+ hit (i think thats what it did anyway) for vehicles.

thats why i wanted to know how high or low they were on the rating

Run them as a battery of mek gunz. That'd be the best use for 'em. Grot tanks are essentially killa kanz, which are bad, with no melee capability and a random move characteristic, which is worse. I think they also have like 1 fewer wound, and the grot detachment gets you a 6++ invuln save which sadly the grot tank already has, so it doesn't benefit from it.

Just run them as mek gunz. If your opponent asks why they only move like 3" just explain they're really slow tanks XD

The grots are obviously scooting them around with their feet, flintstones style

10 lootas in trukk with no rerolls and no strategems are week. It’s about 20% of the damage they used to do... and it used to be based on d3 roll and 1-2 used to be gak. So sorry, no:( I like them and I used them a lot but now, it´ s no choice.

Yeah, the only way I could see lootas being viable in the slightest at the moment is in bad moons, and if you just absolutely maxed out your army with them. And even then they almost definitely wouldn't be worth the investment.

I'm intending to give them a try, my tactic is to put them in a trukk and sit it in the backfield. I reason that it gives them more scope for running from threatening units, gives them a trukkload of ablative wounds, an all-or-nothing line of sight system (yep, they all shoot from the bumper), the ability to avoid a turn of combat, if they're lucky. I'll save the stratagems for other things, I feel that lootas will do a decent bit of damage to light vehicles, like they used to. I'll not be primaris-hunting unless they are in the open.

I'm curious about lootas in a trukk with the klever spanner strat. Take 9, including a spanner to keep the cost down. Get pretty much always the max amount of shots unless you're quite unlucky. It's not really dangerous, but dangerous enough.

The only problem is that stupid rule where there are no abilities within transports.

Gruxz wrote:
I'm curious about lootas in a trukk with the klever spanner strat. Take 9, including a spanner to keep the cost down. Get pretty much always the max amount of shots unless you're quite unlucky. It's not really dangerous, but dangerous enough.

The only problem is that stupid rule where there are no abilities within transports.

That's a good thought. for 1CP to make them reliable for the whole game (or their whole life, whichever is shorter), hat's a good strat to be using. Helps to not need to throw CP at them through the game.

 some bloke wrote:

Gruxz wrote:
I'm curious about lootas in a trukk with the klever spanner strat. Take 9, including a spanner to keep the cost down. Get pretty much always the max amount of shots unless you're quite unlucky. It's not really dangerous, but dangerous enough.

The only problem is that stupid rule where there are no abilities within transports.

That's a good thought. for 1CP to make them reliable for the whole game (or their whole life, whichever is shorter), hat's a good strat to be using. Helps to not need to throw CP at them through the game.

Exactly, especially when in a mech heavy list with a lot of kustom jobs, this might be the best approach to them. It's still pricey, but they're not a huge threat, since people don't see 45 shots flying at them. Kustom mega blasta inside is also quite nice for a lost vehicle.

But how does the meta translate the abilities inside transports?

A spanna with KMB in a loota mob is 30 ppm though...

In addition, if your groups follows the RAW interpretation that nothing can affect models in transports, then klever spanner doesn't do anything either.

 Jidmah wrote:
A spanna with KMB in a loota mob is 30 ppm though...

In addition, if your groups follows the RAW interpretation that nothing can affect models in transports, then klever spanner doesn't do anything either.

This is likely bs. I hope they address this soon.

But regardless, Lootas are bad. The only thing that made them worth a damn was Bad Moons shoot twice. And putting them in a trukk means they are immobile unless you want them hitting on 6s.. just run the numbers on Lootas hitting on 6s. It's a joke.

Right now, it's tankbustas that are value for money. Flash Gits I think are actually fine (in spite of the rather awful point increase), but I understand trepidation on not paying that many points for them. If you own any Squiggoths or Garg Squigs though...

it likely is an oversight, just email the 40kfaq about it.
It only affects orks so not a lot of people are gonna complain about it.

Just out of curiosity, is this list purposefully missing some units that arent available anymore or is that a mistake?

Mega-Dread
Big Trakk
Regular Squiggoth
Grot tanks
Grot Mega-tank

If it was a mistake, where are these units ranked?

tried a few different things now guys and I have a list which is putting up consistent wins against all comers.

Trukkboys is where its at for me. Force your opponent to kill those 65 pt trukks to get to the obsec inside.
I'm running 5-6 units of them, Deathskulls with a klaw boss and a single Rokkit Launcha.

Also running 3 Scrapjets with Korkscrew and a single Shokkjump for Jump-shoot-Jump shenanighans.

That's the base.

Can flavour it with a Burna bomba or 2, or some meganobz.

I also like one or two Deff Koptas for throwaway units that are great for Engage on all fronts.

You just put so much on objectives and use the trukks to block off avenues of advance for your opponents scary units.

Been working really well for me, unbeaten in 6 with this list.

Also running a 20 grot screen in this list which can pen your opponent back in his deployment zone for a turn if you jump them 9" outside his deployment zone nice and stretched out with the T Bone on the ends for unit coherency.

Beardedragon wrote:
Just out of curiosity, is this list purposefully missing some units that arent available anymore or is that a mistake?

Mega-Dread
Big Trakk
Regular Squiggoth
Grot tanks
Grot Mega-tank

If it was a mistake, where are these units ranked?

The list is made up of experience reported in posts of communities I frequent, battle reports and tournament data. For most of these you have many people theory-crafting around them, but few to no people are actually reporting back any experience with them. On top of that, the few people that do run those models tend to be using them in extremely casual environments, making it hard to judge them.

If you wanted my opinion on them, the big trakk is probably blue, dread and squiggoth yellow, grot tanks red. But I really would have nothing to back that up.

There is also a forgeworld book due sometime in this edition.

 Jidmah wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Just out of curiosity, is this list purposefully missing some units that arent available anymore or is that a mistake?

Mega-Dread
Big Trakk
Regular Squiggoth
Grot tanks
Grot Mega-tank

If it was a mistake, where are these units ranked?

The list is made up of experience reported in posts of communities I frequent, battle reports and tournament data. For most of these you have many people theory-crafting around them, but few to no people are actually reporting back any experience with them. On top of that, the few people that do run those models tend to be using them in extremely casual environments, making it hard to judge them.

If you wanted my opinion on them, the big trakk is probably blue, dread and squiggoth yellow, grot tanks red. But I really would have nothing to back that up.

I see. I was just thinking the Big Trakk with Super Scorchas would be insanely incredible. i mean a more powerful -2 ap flamethrower that hits 24 inches away? sounds amazing.

Honestly, a KBB using the burnin' highway stratagem is very close to that and is much cheaper. But yes, the supa skorcha is the reason I see it as a blue choice.

The Big Trakk with SupaScorcha was a top tier choice sometime in the not too distant past when Orks really seemed to lack shooting - near start of 8th Ed. when Orks didn't have a codex? I can't quite remember.

I think we have better shooty options now that buggies have their Kustom Jobs and points drop, also BW with Da Boomer or Smasha guns (I know stationary) but are all probably better choices.

"Top tier" would imply a regular showing in top placing tournament lists or at least a regular showing in battle reports.
Unlike Zardsnark or the giant squiggoth, the big trakk never showed up even once in any top placing list.

I think it's value is massively overestimated, but as I said before, I'm simply lacking data to back up that claim.

I think it suffered from eligibility in many tourneys because it is a FW / non-codex model? Could could explain the lack of use and data.

Did you miss my 'was' then referring to a brief moment in time? Then also going on to state that there are definitely better options now? I watched a fair few battle reports on YouTube and a couple of dedicated Ork players used it to great success during the time period I was talking about. Used it myself a couple of times - albeit in relatively casual games and it was a top performer.

Also, if you want to be snarky Orks don't 'regularly' take top placing in tourneys full stop. So maybe throw out your entire list if that is the requirement? We rejoice and hold up the potential 'anomalous' cases when such a feat does occur.

crzylgs wrote:
I think it suffered from eligibility in many tourneys because it is a FW / non-codex model? Could could explain the lack of use and data.

FW was legal for all of ITC. And as I said, multiple other FW units did appear in top lists.

Did you miss my 'was' then referring to a brief moment in time?

I didn't. It never was top tier, because it never appeared in any top army in any larger event. I go through all top 4 placements of GTs after each weekend in search of ork players doing good, and the big trakk never appeared once during all of 8th, unlike the squiggoth or Zardsnark.
In the times before the codex, orks were almost exclusively running green tides with the odd gargantuan squiggoth taking a win here and there.

Then also going on to state that there are definitely better options now? I watched a fair few battle reports on YouTube and a couple of dedicated Ork players used it to great success during the time period I was talking about.

Feel free to link those. As I said, I'm not aware of any.

Also, if you want to be snarky Orks don't 'regularly' take top placing in tourneys full stop. So maybe throw out your entire list if that is the requirement? We rejoice and hold up the potential 'anomalous' cases when such a feat does occur.

If my post came across as "snarky", I'm sorry, but I was merely stating facts. I have tracked all GT data since the beginning of 8th and read every post on the topic of ork tactica on all of dakka plus other communities like reddit. The vast majority of musing on the big trakk is of theoretical nature and almost all of the battle reports are extremely casual lists facing opponents of similar nature.
Feel free to provide lists, battle reports and tournament placement with big trakks inside of them. I don't know you well since you only post sporadically, so even though you seem to be a decent guy, I have no idea of how competitive your gaming experience is. So I'm sorry for not just taking your word for it.
You're also wrong about the orks placing regularly in tournaments, until the SM 2.0 disaster there was about one ork top 4 placement per week, plus you can often find people on reddit digging for the best ork list in the event. It's definitely enough data to judge whether a unit is worth of tournament play or not.
Which brings me to my original point - I don't *have* enough data for the big trakk to make a decision, that's why it's not on the list. Neither me nor the guys I sometimes borrow models from have one and there is no real experience on it to be found from people online. On top of that, it's a fairly unique unit somewhere between battlewagon and buggies, so you can't judge it by comparing it to similar units, like the kustom stompa or chinork.

As someone who owns a Supa Skorcha Big trakk, I love the damn thing. It's LOADS of fun.

I doubt it'll ever be featured in top tournament play, though.

185 points for 15W, T6, 4+ save... that's not gonna fly when you can get a Bonebreaker w/ Grot riggers for the exact same cost. Or the Battlewagon with Deff Rolla for 30 points cheaper

I think it has plenty of play in semi competitive, though. Buckets of fun. But against super tuned lists, say with triple eradicators? yeah, not at that price.

If the Big Trakks comes down in points to account for its somewhat flimsy body, I think it could see play.

Edit: Just as a point of comparison, albeit slightly different as the Big Trakk IS open topped, so it can be used a bit differently for the units inside...

Da Boomer Gunwagon shoots 14 times on average. As a Deathskull, with 2 hit re-rolls and explosions, this is about 7 hits with some mental math.

It has 1 more wound, 2 more toughness, longer range, a higher strength gun with better damage... and it's also 10 points cheaper.

The Big Trakk really suffers from it's head scratcher 155 point cost before adding the big gun...

Removed - Rule #1 please

Just went to an RTT and went :

93/59 vs Orks.
36/99 vs Ad Mech
95/62 vs TS


If somebody have an answer to 6 bellisarius, 3 skorpius and 30 priests in boats, give me a call. The dude have a whopping 100% win rate, minus a draw, vs me and he´s my regular sparring partner.

He´s is also the top 2 or 3 AD mech player of the last 3 years, but still....
I really have no idea how to play, if i´m the back he will delete me from afar and i get no primaries, if I go midfiled 30 CC priest do an average of 16MW on charge, can fight tiwce and boost their Invu to 2++.
Either way, I´m fethed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My list was a bunch of trukkboyz, 2 bombers, a forktress bonebreaka, some kommandos backed by a warboss and a watrike BTW

crzylgs wrote:
Removed - Rule #1 please

Jidmah has a grip bud. He puts a ton of time into researching placings of ork players in tournaments and has explained to you whatt fits criteria for tthe unit ranking. But by all means go ahead and call him snarky, a nazi etc.

tulun wrote:
As someone who owns a Supa Skorcha Big trakk, I love the damn thing. It's LOADS of fun.

I doubt it'll ever be featured in top tournament play, though.

185 points for 15W, T6, 4+ save... that's not gonna fly when you can get a Bonebreaker w/ Grot riggers for the exact same cost. Or the Battlewagon with Deff Rolla for 30 points cheaper

I think it has plenty of play in semi competitive, though. Buckets of fun. But against super tuned lists, say with triple eradicators? yeah, not at that price.

If the Big Trakks comes down in points to account for its somewhat flimsy body, I think it could see play.

Edit: Just as a point of comparison, albeit slightly different as the Big Trakk IS open topped, so it can be used a bit differently for the units inside...

Da Boomer Gunwagon shoots 14 times on average. As a Deathskull, with 2 hit re-rolls and explosions, this is about 7 hits with some mental math.

It has 1 more wound, 2 more toughness, longer range, a higher strength gun with better damage... and it's also 10 points cheaper.

The Big Trakk really suffers from it's head scratcher 155 point cost before adding the big gun...

But.. a super scorcha actually hits no matter what. it only needs its wounds roll

Finally got a game of 9th yay! Bloody virus.

Was 1K I took a trio of trukkboys with a rokkit and big choopa nob with a forktress rolla wagon filled with 4 meganobs and a biggest boss (And a KFF mek hanging about). I made them evil suns mostly because it felt like the extra movement would be handy here and there.

He took farsight tau with a bunch of breachers, drones and a pair of commanders and a pair of ghostkeels.

Trukks do feel decently tanky in small sized games, he only managed to kill one and the wagon by the end. Tried having 2 choppa boyz mobs driving forward while a shoota boyz mob camped an objective near my deployment. Throwing trukks into combat with things is damn helpful, fly isn't the auto win button it used to be so you can actually reduce the enemies firepower in a decent exchange. Biggest boss is absolutely awesome, as are meganobs. Sadly the forktress got his ass blown up by the fusionkeel.

Still not sure what secondaries are good for orks to achieve, but managed to win about 62 to 48 and in the last few turns killed pretty much everything he had with the nob sergeants left over from the boyz after the lads caught a bunch of bullets. Moral doesn't feel as brutal as it could last edition, you lose 6 boyz in a small unit and you're not guaranteed to lose the rest.

Beardedragon wrote:


But.. a super scorcha actually hits no matter what. it only needs its wounds roll

It has less variance, but you still roll for shots.

Point is, something with a similar output has T8, 16 wounds, and a better range... Big Trakks are just *super* expensive. They need to come down like 20-25% and we might have a stew going.

tulun wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:


But.. a super scorcha actually hits no matter what. it only needs its wounds roll

It has less variance, but you still roll for shots.

Point is, something with a similar output has T8, 16 wounds, and a better range... Big Trakks are just *super* expensive. They need to come down like 20-25% and we might have a stew going.

Pretty much this. The problem is that even with the amount of hits it gets, it's only 1D at the end of the day, and that's something we kinda already have as an army in spades. If it was 2D, then we'd have a damn good primaris mulcher, but as it is now, it's only really good against targets that we largely don't have issues with, barring a few exceptions like stuff with negatives to hit.