We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics

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**Jidmah**

Besides teleport homers, there is no relevant action that can be taken by characters.

Character protection also needs another unit nearby, so why isn't that unit performing the action? And I wouldn't exactly call the kustom mega slugga a "decent gun".

**some bloke**

Jidmah wrote:
Besides teleport homers, there is no relevant action that can be taken by characters.

Character protection also needs another unit nearby, so why isn't that unit performing the action? And I wouldn't exactly call the kustom mega slugga a "decent gun".

well, it's better for pot-shots than a slugga!

they are also useful for linebreaker, when you can't spare a unit to hang around back there. the unit giving them protection can do some shooting or fighting while the mek does his thing.

**Grotrebel**

Yeah with KMB they were ok as Death Skulls. Sadly the pistol is useless.
If there was still the option for a barebone mek for 25 he might be worth a try, but even then i am not sure about it.
They can still raise the banners though, in that case you don`t need protection anyway because it does not matter what happens to them in your opponents turn.
But i guess you still wanna hold the objective for primary points so you will have something else there as well.

I have a similar problem in my buggie lists.
You reach 1-3 objectives turn one and can only raise banners with infantry.
So you need Grots (expensive), Trukkboys (in some deployments you don`t really want to disembark 1-3 mobs turn 1), Kommandos (but they want to infiltrate for Engage, Linebreaker, harrassing or getting to other objectives), Stormboys (expensive) or characters (mostly in vehicles or otherwise busy).

If you can go for bring it down or other stuff it`s not that bad, but against armies that deny good secondaries I end up with Engage + Raise the banners a lot.

**Jidmah**

some bloke wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
Besides teleport homers, there is no relevant action that can be taken by characters.

Character protection also needs another unit nearby, so why isn't that unit performing the action? And I wouldn't exactly call the kustom mega slugga a "decent gun".

well, it's better for pot-shots than a slugga!

they are also useful for linebreaker, when you can't spare a unit to hang around back there. the unit giving them protection can do some shooting or fighting while the mek does his thing.

I run Da Red Gobbo quite often for the lulz, and he really is just a better version of the mek. In practice, you never get to shoot that 12" gun at anything of worth. Any time the character can place a teleporter homer, the unit accompanying him can be doing that instead, because they have even worse guns, and you need to hide both from view anyways. When you are using trukk boyz to score linebreaker, 30 points of mek really don't enable them to do anything they couldn't have done without it. On the flip side, bringing a bunch of meks and runtherds allows your opponent to pick assassinate and get an easy 15 VP from wiping out ridiculously easy to kill ork characters.

A mek isn't great for the same reason why Makari isn't. A single model without exceptional close combat skills can't take an objective from anyone and if the only quality you have is being a model, there are better options.

I think GW explicitly wrote their secondaries in a way that cheap characters can't exploit them, and I'll say they were fairly successful at that.

**G00fySmiley**

I am curious people's opinions on small scale orks. we are doing a little patrol league 500 points or 25 power (undetermined yet which) normally i would throw together something cheeky and themed. but its mostly space marines and custodes and i am having difficulty staying on the board past turn 3 against marines before i am wiped completely. doesn't need to be uber power but i would liek to be on even footing and i am fairly convinced nothing in our book holds a candle to a mediocre marines list.

My alternative strategy is dig into my marines collection but as one of the few non imperial players it would be more monotone.

currently leaning for power level

Spoiler:

**Tomsug**

Well, after some experiments, I just say, Jidmah is right. What actions exactly?

Mek can do just Rise the banners and Teleport homer.

Teleport homer is nonsence. To get full 15VP, you need to get him to enemy deploy zone T2. So deepstrike or Da Jump and then keep him alive for 4 turns??

Rise the banners - let' s say Mek goes with boyz in Trukk. In case, boyz needs to fight, there are enemies in range of objective so you can't rise the banners. In case you can rise the banner, boyz can do it.

The only situation is, when boyz blocking enemy outside 3” range of objective and the trukk is still alive to keep Mek save. But it seems hard to manage.

General question is - what of the this secondaries chapter worth to take?

Rise the banners - you need 3 objectives x 5 turn to get max or equivalent. That could work.

Investigate - hard to clear center, no.

Deploy scrambles - max 10 VP so no?

Telyport hommer - 4 per turn = 3-4 turns in enemy zone = start T1 or T2 with some easy to hide and hard to kill unit. Da Jump 3 MANz? Hide some Kommandos?

**Vineheart01**

imo expecting to max each secondary is pointless.
I aim to max 1 of them and 10 for the other 2.

**Tomsug**

There is a scenario for Mek. If you screen your deployment with SMG and play rise the banners high. Than your Mek rise once a banner and stay alive close to SMG.

**koooaei**

Seems that secondaries that require actions are generally not worth taking. There may be some exceptions - depending on the ma and opponent, but you're usually better off with just killing and scoring secondaries.

**tulun**

Jidmah wrote:

I run Da Red Gobbo quite often for the lulz, and he really is just a better version of the mek. In practice, you never get to shoot that 12" gun at anything of worth. Any time the character can place a teleporter homer, the unit accompanying him can be doing that instead, because they have even worse guns, and you need to hide both from view anyways. When you are using trukk boyz to score linebreaker, 30 points of mek really don't enable them to do anything they couldn't have done without it. On the flip side, bringing a bunch of meks and runtherds allows your opponent to pick assassinate and get an easy 15 VP from wiping out ridiculously easy to kill ork characters.
A mek isn't great for the same reason why Makari isn't. A single model without exceptional close combat skills can't take an objective from anyone and if the only quality you have is being a model, there are better options.

I think GW explicitly wrote their secondaries in a way that cheap characters can't exploit them, and I'll say they were fairly successful at that.

Assassinate and bring it down are in the same category. So if you're a highly mechanized / mek gun heavy force, it's sort of irrelevant if you spam characters, as they can't get 15 VPs from BOTH secondaries.

I think in most matchups, its easy for Orks to do engage or domination, but yeah, having a plan for raise the banners is probably something you'd need in a tournament if the opponent does not give up a good kill secondary. SM are the pocket example -- A lot of their lists have 0 good kill seecondaries.

The mech list needs a game plan to keep up, as by definition you're behind by 10-15 points without a good kill secondary. If you can't make it up with secondaries, you have to absolutely dominate on primary, which won't always be easy.

**Vineheart01**

Domination is usually my go-to yeah. Except on missions with 6 objectives, because you have to hold 4 of them to "have more than half" which is annoying.
It also goes hand-in-hand with the primary, least it has with the missions ive done as i havent done them all yet. Generally if i got 15pts on the primary i also got domination that round.

I do feel like the action secondaries need to be buffed. Only a couple of the mission-specific ones feel worth it to me. Banners is a joke because you cant do the same action multiple times per turn, so its actually the worst one imo. You get almost no points off of it until you have 3 banners raised, and unless you get the 4th you still arent getting many points off of it and thats asking a LOT for the enemy to not approach an objective and mess it all up.

**Tomsug**

koooaei wrote:
Seems that secondaries that require actions are generally not worth taking. There may be some exceptions - depending on the ma and opponent, but you're usually better off with just killing and scoring secondaries.

Sure but as you see - there is a lot of situations, when some of these is the only playable third secondary. So it´s good to be ready.

**tulun**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Domination is usually my go-to yeah. Except on missions with 6 objectives, because you have to hold 4 of them to "have more than half" which is annoying.
It also goes hand-in-hand with the primary, least it has with the missions ive done as i havent done them all yet. Generally if i got 15pts on the primary i also got domination that round.

I do feel like the action secondaries need to be buffed. Only a couple of the mission-specific ones feel worth it to me. Banners is a joke because you cant do the same action multiple times per turn, so its actually the worst one imo. You get almost no points off of it until you have 3 banners raised, and unless you get the 4th you still arent getting many points off of it and thats asking a LOT for the enemy to not approach an objective and mess it all up.

You can raise multiple banners in a turn. It's the only exception (so far) to performing the same action twice.

It's not so bad, but it's something the enemy can play around easily simply by doing well at the primary game.. which they should. If you are confident holding 2 points of the board and can raise turn 1, that is 10 VPs, though.

**Tomsug**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Domination is usually my go-to yeah. Except on missions with 6 objectives, because you have to hold 4 of them to "have more than half" which is annoying.
It also goes hand-in-hand with the primary, least it has with the missions ive done as i havent done them all yet. Generally if i got 15pts on the primary i also got domination that round.

That is the general question - have secondaries that corelate with primaries (domination, banners) and stay focused, or have secondaries distracting from primaries to play on more fields...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another use of Mek - make him your warlord with Kunnin but Brutal and hide him in your deploy. Enemy can' t kill your warlord.

But does enybody play Cut of the head?

Except me of course, but play it with bunch of SMG and wazboom againts tank commanders makes sence.

**tulun**

Potential use case for Storm boyz?

5 Stormboyz is 60 points (woof) -- but that's only 5 more than 5 kommandos w/ Klaw.

Throw 5 Stormboyz into a wagon, then once the wagon is midfield, have them jump out and perform the deploy scramblers action in the enemy deployment zone as they can move 12". Should be an easy way to guarantee that one, as the midboard / deployment zone version is super easy for Orks. 10 VPs from that secondary irrespective of enemy army.

**Tomsug**

tulun wrote:
Potential use case for Storm boyz?

5 Stormboyz is 60 points (woof) -- but that's only 5 more than 5 kommandos w/ Klaw.

Throw 5 Stormboyz into a wagon, then once the wagon is midfield, have them jump out and perform the deploy scramblers action in the enemy deployment zone as they can move 12". Should be an easy way to guarantee that one, as the midboard / deployment zone version is super easy for Orks. 10 VPs from that secondary irrespective of enemy army.

Deepstrike Kommando is easier, cheaper and impossible to deny. Deepstrike Stormboyz is also possible.

**Grotrebel**

koooaei wrote:
Seems that secondaries that require actions are generally not worth taking. There may be some exceptions - depending on the ma and opponent, but you're usually better off with just killing and scoring secondaries.

I had many games where i could not go for good killing secondaries, often they all max out at 9 or it`s incredibly hard to get 12+.
Also more and more people build their lists to minimize potential secondaries or are allready giving out just a few with popular builds and you need to kill all relevant models to just get a score of 9-12 points.

Warpcraft is a joke unless you face TS or Psyker heavy Daemons, GK or Aeldari.
Battlefield Supremacy is Engage 99% of the time unless you go for a aggressive green tide.
No Mercy is almost always useless since we have more squishy units than most armies and kill more is a no go mostly, as is While we stand.
No respite & Purge the enemy are highly situational and gives easy points in some matchups, otherwise they are no more than a back up for some safe points but no maxing out.
So Shadow operations is the only real joker we have since you can always plan for it and go for some steady or even maxing out points here.

tulun wrote:
Potential use case for Storm boyz?

5 Stormboyz is 60 points (woof) -- but that's only 5 more than 5 kommandos w/ Klaw.

Throw 5 Stormboyz into a wagon, then once the wagon is midfield, have them jump out and perform the deploy scramblers action in the enemy deployment zone as they can move 12". Should be an easy way to guarantee that one, as the midboard / deployment zone version is super easy for Orks. 10 VPs from that secondary irrespective of enemy army.

Yeah i`ve been thinking about them as well. At first a full mob to accompany buggies and trukks to flip objectives, but those 5 Stormboys look more and more attractive to me.
Either 5 in a waggon just like you said, or hiding 1-2 x 5 behind a ruin to engage / raise banners midfield.

With Koptas, Kommandos, Stormboys together with your usual buggy / waggon stuff you can score great on primary points, engage and raise the banners and take a 3rd secondary depending on opponent. At least that`s how i am doing it so far unless there are better no brainers in a certain matchup.
Gonna give them a try and see how it works out. 120 points for 2 x 5 is quite an investment for 12 6+ wounds...

**Vineheart01**

why would you put stormboyz in a wagon?
They still cant do the action until T2 as they cant get out of the wagon after it moves. At that point, just deepstrike them.
Which still goes back to kommandoz as theyre cheaper and are actually harder to kill because of the bonus cover save, if it applies. If it doesnt, theyre exactly as hard to kill (i.e. not)

**Tomsug**

Stormboyz / Kommando - it maybe depends on the rest of your list. Both can work the same way but SLOTS! elites vs fast attack....

**Vineheart01**

yeah, thats another factor.
And with buggies being so good right now, FA is a premium.

**tulun**

Grotrebel wrote:

tulun wrote:
Potential use case for Storm boyz?

5 Stormboyz is 60 points (woof) -- but that's only 5 more than 5 kommandos w/ Klaw.

Throw 5 Stormboyz into a wagon, then once the wagon is midfield, have them jump out and perform the deploy scramblers action in the enemy deployment zone as they can move 12". Should be an easy way to guarantee that one, as the midboard / deployment zone version is super easy for Orks. 10 VPs from that secondary irrespective of enemy army.

Yeah i`ve been thinking about them as well. At first a full mob to accompany buggies and trukks to flip objectives, but those 5 Stormboys look more and more attractive to me.
Either 5 in a waggon just like you said, or hiding 1-2 x 5 behind a ruin to engage / raise banners midfield.

With Koptas, Kommandos, Stormboys together with your usual buggy / waggon stuff you can score great on primary points, engage and raise the banners and take a 3rd secondary depending on opponent. At least that`s how i am doing it so far unless there are better no brainers in a certain matchup.
Gonna give them a try and see how it works out. 120 points for 2 x 5 is quite an investment for 12 6+ wounds...

Yeah, I think I'll give the 5 man a try. I think there's some interesting potential.

It's really about how little you can spend to achieve some of these secondaries that might seem impossible in other matches where they don't have psykers, vehicles, monsters, or a ton of easy to snipe characters.

Vineheart01 wrote:
why would you put stormboyz in a wagon?
They still cant do the action until T2 as they cant get out of the wagon after it moves. At that point, just deepstrike them.
Which still goes back to kommandoz as theyre cheaper and are actually harder to kill because of the bonus cover save, if it applies. If it doesnt, theyre exactly as hard to kill (i.e. not)

Deploy scramblers is end of turn -- surivability is irrelevant. The concern is if you think your Kommandos are going to be screened out. If that's not a concern, they can achieve this.

**Tomsug**

Stormboyz could work with Nob biker Spam. Thanks this slot game. Something like:

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Deploy Scramblers is almost autopass if you take 2x5 Stormboyz / Kommandos and deepstrike them. But just 10 VP.

**Grotrebel**

Vineheart01 wrote:
why would you put stormboyz in a wagon?
They still cant do the action until T2 as they cant get out of the wagon after it moves. At that point, just deepstrike them.
Which still goes back to kommandoz as theyre cheaper and are actually harder to kill because of the bonus cover save, if it applies. If it doesnt, theyre exactly as hard to kill (i.e. not)

Well you get 3" disembarking + 12" movement so you could just disembark turn 1 before the waggon moves.
Either to go for a raise the flag midfield or a engage with advancing.
Plus deepstriking turn 2 means 9" distance to enemy models. That means there is a high chance the relevant objectives are blocked by enemy models. DS Stormboys in a waggon could disembark turn 2 and steal an objective from something like transport with their ObSec so the opponent gets to score less.
Since objectives are not in terrain kommandos on objectives won`t get their bonus if they want to camp there most of the time.
Also for the relevant secondaries surving is not needed. Just get there and score.

Tomsug wrote:
Stormboyz / Kommando - it maybe depends on the rest of your list. Both can work the same way but SLOTS! elites vs fast attack....

Yeah thats the other thing. But for most of my lists i go for an outrider detachment.
3 Scrapjets, 3 Dragsta and you still got 4 slots for 1-2 Kopta, 1-2 Stormboys and maybe KBB.
You keep your buggies in 1 slot anaways to get all of them their custom upgrade.

**tulun**

Tomsug wrote:

Deploy Scramblers is almost autopass if you take 2x5 Stormboyz / Kommandos and deepstrike them. But just 10 VP.

Honestly, if you can guarantee 10 VP against SM / Custodes (or other similar elite armies with horrible secondary choices), that seems like a win.

**Tomsug**

tulun wrote:
Tomsug wrote:

Deploy Scramblers is almost autopass if you take 2x5 Stormboyz / Kommandos and deepstrike them. But just 10 VP.

Honestly, if you can guarantee 10 VP against SM / Custodes (or other similar elite armies with horrible secondary choices), that seems like a win.

Than:

1 x Mek do scrables T1 in your deployment
1 x trukboyz or whatever in midfield T2
1 x Kommandos DS T3 in enemy deploy

= cheapest way

**tulun**

Characters can’t do scramblers sadly.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The cheapest way is probably 3 kommando squads, though, if you have no other infantry.

45x3, 135 points. Deploy 1 turn one in your zone and scramble; infiltrate when you have the chance for the other 2. The smarter way is probably just taking 10 grots, and then using whatever other deep striking units to achieve it, though.

**Tomsug**

tulun wrote:
Characters can’t do scramblers sadly.

Argh damn.. so something about 50p = kommandos, stormboyz, gretchkin.

What I found as crucial = if you play such secondaries with non infrantry list (and have just a few infantry for this purpous) and your enemy is clever enought, he kills you this units ASAP. And it' s pretty easy to delete such small weak units in T1 with some out of LOS fire. So essencial is to keep them in DS or other type of “to be sure” cover. Because in such list there is no redundancy. One Kommandos dead and no Scramblers at all...

**tulun**

Guys, all of our problems are solved.

For a mere 2 cp, we can upgrade our boys to 'Ard Boys!

Woof, GW.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/03/our-top-5-warhammer-40000-take-and-hold-specialists/

**Vineheart01**

yeah i saw that and almost burst out laughing.
I was seriously hoping they took that opportunity to make it 1cp. At 1cp i MIGHT use it, 2 is a freaking joke especially now that ap1 is gonna be even more common.

**gungo**

I would also take a 4+ save for 2cp.