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I always felt that they should have scaled it. Make it 1 CP for 4+ save if the unit is at or under PL 7, 2CP if their PL is 8 or more. Though just making it a points option is another thing they could have just done, make it a 1 or 2 point upgrade for the unit.

Really highlights how OOT GW is when it comes to non-marine units as far as rules go.

I've only played the Core Rulebook so far for the secondaries, how much better would you say the changes are for the GT2020 secondaries in comparison? I noticed scramblers is one of the new stuff that isn't present in the main rule version, and stuff like Slay the Warlord is tiered instead. Should my gaming group swap over to that one or are the changes minimal?

 Grimskul wrote:
I always felt that they should have scaled it. Make it 1 CP for 4+ save if the unit is at or under PL 7, 2CP if their PL is 8 or more. Though just making it a points option is another thing they could have just done, make it a 1 or 2 point upgrade for the unit.

Really highlights how OOT GW is when it comes to non-marine units as far as rules go.

I've only played the Core Rulebook so far for the secondaries, how much better would you say the changes are for the GT2020 secondaries in comparison? I noticed scramblers is one of the new stuff that isn't present in the main rule version, and stuff like Slay the Warlord is tiered instead. Should my gaming group swap over to that one or are the changes minimal?

Honestly the secondaries are still completely goddamn broken in the GT pack so, who cares.

Any army with 3 psyker characters is cartoonishly easy to attack thru secondaries, as is any army with cheap vehicle units.

I played with someone who tought it was a good idea to bring 3x guard psykers for scoring a secondary at some point and it was so, so, so, so stupid. I maxed 2 secondaries turn 2 with almost zero effort.

Ok, so this is a question that I don't think deserves a whole thread, but what transports are da best? Trukks or battlewagons? I'm planning to use MANZ in trukks, so I would like to know your opinions.

 Misclicking ork wrote:
Ok, so this is a question that I don't think deserves a whole thread, but what transports are da best? Trukks or battlewagons? I'm planning to use MANZ in trukks, so I would like to know your opinions.

If you're planning to use MANZ, I would suggest battlewagons. You can have a unit of 10 boyz with up to 5 MANZ so that way you not only cover the troop tax, but you also give your MANZ a way to avoid taking casualties in case your BW blows up before dropping them off.

Grimskul is right but honestly, MANz should be in 2 units, one walk, second deepstrike. And all under supervision of warboss giving them advance and charge...

I kind of like to avoid all inning it, and try to have different value targets in different vehicles to spread out the target priority for the enemy. Yeah the wagon full of boys is scary and tough. But the trukk with some MANZ will likely do more when it gets there. A wagon full of MANZ just has too big a target painted on it in my mind.

cody.d. wrote:
I kind of like to avoid all inning it, and try to have different value targets in different vehicles to spread out the target priority for the enemy. Yeah the wagon full of boys is scary and tough. But the trukk with some MANZ will likely do more when it gets there. A wagon full of MANZ just has too big a target painted on it in my mind.

I definitely prefer wagons for Manz instead of trukks. Trukks are easy to kill even with armor redundancy and don't have enough transport capacity to allow cheaper bodies to ride with Manz; they're invaluable if the vehicle is wrecked and you roll 1s. My go-to for Manz is BW with 5 of them plus 10 boyz or 5 kommandos. Otherwise I wouldn't bother with a transport for meganobz at all.

Da jump or tellyporta are also excellent options to deliver meganobz.

Quick question to you Old Uns' : I just read the Morkanaut / Gorkanaut FAQ and Big N'Stompy has been changed. Can they not fall back and shoot anymore ???

 Nym wrote:
Quick question to you Old Uns' : I just read the Morkanaut / Gorkanaut FAQ and Big N'Stompy has been changed. Can they not fall back and shoot anymore ???

Correct. Pretty much every walker in that class (knights) lost the ability to natively fall back and shoot. Thankfully the gorkanaughts in particular have little problem firing all their dakka point blank (especially with slug gubbingz!) then swinging with their fairly decent melee to pull themselves out of combat.Though the Mork can't fire it's main gun into combat, having the blast keyword i think.

cody.d. wrote:

 Nym wrote:
Quick question to you Old Uns' : I just read the Morkanaut / Gorkanaut FAQ and Big N'Stompy has been changed. Can they not fall back and shoot anymore ???

Correct. Pretty much every walker in that class (knights) lost the ability to natively fall back and shoot.

Plot twist - they didn't. TITANIC units can still fall back and shoot, they probably forgot (again) that nauts aren't titanic.

Thankfully the gorkanaughts in particular have little problem firing all their dakka point blank (especially with slug gubbingz!) then swinging with their fairly decent melee to pull themselves out of combat.Though the Mork can't fire it's main gun into combat, having the blast keyword i think.

The klaw of mork is still a pretty good deterrent against chargers, and the four big shootas, two rokkits and KMB hitting on 4+ still have somewhat a chance of getting the naut out of combat against chaff.

 koooaei wrote:
Seems that secondaries that require actions are generally not worth taking. There may be some exceptions - depending on the ma and opponent, but you're usually better off with just killing and scoring secondaries.

Without actions and without kill secondaries like bring it down what secondaries? Winning lists will minimize killing　scenarios.　15 from those will be very rare　in competive lists.

So, basically we have:

Battlefield Supremacy
- Engage on all Fronts (2 VP for 3 quarters, 3 VP for 4 quarters) you need to be able to move 13" to score this T1, can be scored by AIRCRAFT
- Linebreaker (4VP for two units being fully in your opponent's deployment zone, no AIRCRAFT) evil suns might be able to score this T1, and da jump can help with this.
- Domination (3VP for holding more than half of the objectives at the end of your turn) unlike primaries, these cannot be denied and can be scored T1, but might be difficult depending on map and enemy

No Mercy, No Respite
- Thin their Ranks (1VP per 10 models killed, models with 10+ wounds count as 10) this great against any army with many easy to kill bodies or multiple rhino-equivalent vehicles. Auto-win vs necrons
- Grind them down (3 VP if you kill more *units* than your opponent) This one is luck-based even for my DG, never considered it for orks. Note you also get 0 VP if you draw even.
- While we stand, we fight (5 VP for each of the three most expensive *models* you field, if they survive the battle) I tried to score this once with my DG, naming Mortarion and two DG DP as my most expensive models. Gain 0 VP. I'm not even to giving this a chance for orks.

Purge the Enemy
- Titan hunter (Kill TITANIC models for 12 VP)
- Bring it down (Kill vehicles for 2/3 VP, threshold at 10 wounds)
- Cut off the head (Slay the warlord, 13/10/6/3/1 VP depending on battle round) Unless your opponent has a warlord you can take down by dropping a burna bommer on it, this isn't really something orks can do before turn 3.
- Assassinate (3VP per character destroyed)

Shadow operation
- Raise banners (action, any INFANTRY, unit can move, cannot be interrupted, 1 VP per banner in command phase) To max out this, you need to raise three banners T1 and do not lose any of them or rise more banners than the opponent takes down
- Investigate sites (action, one non-character INFANTRY, unit can move, cannot be interrupted, 3 VP if no enemies are within 6" of the center) This is nigh impossible to max, and easily denied to 0 points, as a single enemy model can prevent you from taking the action
- Scramblers (action, one non-character INFANTRY, unit can move, cannot be interrupted, 10 VP if performed 3 times). You need to scramble both deployment zones and once outside of both. Not to hard to archive, but if you are running a buggy lists you can get denied to 0 VP if your opponent focuses down your infantry.
- Teleport homers (action, one INFANTRY, unit can move, can be interrupted, 4 VP each time). This is a high risk, high reward objective. There is no infantry in our codex that can be in your opponent's deployment zone T1, so you need to get this every turn to max it out. However, even if you only manage two or three times, it still give a decent reward.

Warpcraft
- Abhor the witch (3/5VP for killing psykers) Auto-take if you don't have weird boy and your opponent has more than one psyker. I wouldn't leave the weird boy at home just to screw over TS and GK though, but they don't mesh well with buggies anyways.
- Mental interrogation (psychic action, one psyker, WC4, need to be within 18" of a character, 3 VP). Being able to cast this first turn is unlikely and you can't cast anything else in the same turn. Bringing a weirdboy that might accidentally explode while most likely being in deny range just for this doesn't seem like a good plan.
- Ritual (psychic action, one psyker, WC3, must be in the middle, 15 VP if the same psyker casts it 3 times). Very fun objective for friendly games, but it can go hilariously wrong if your weird boy explodes on the third cast. As only one psyker can cast it and they are unlikely to be within 6" of the middle during T1, you really don't have any margin for error. "No margin for error" and "weird boy" is a really bad combo.
- Pierce the veil (psychic action, one psyker, WC4, need to be within 6" of opponent's battlefield edge, no enemies within 6", 8/15 VP for casting it 2x/4x with one psyker) A slightly better version of the ritual. I guess you could use one weird boy to jump another weird boy into a hard to reach place and start casting T1 or have him jump there T2 and be protected by other deep strikers. You are still likely to be in deny range and you still can only have one psyker rack up the count.

So in general, picking objectives goes like this for me:
1) Pick one from purge the enemy unless none of them apply.
2) Check if "thin their ranks" works against enemy army, because orks are really good at killing lots of weak models.
3) Abhor the witch if possible and enemy has at least two psyker characters you have a realistic chance to kill (don't pick this if your opponent only has two farseers).
4) Pick Battlefield supremacy depending your and enemies mobility, and your ability to shift them off objective (Linebreaker is easier to archive against marines than domination if they go first)
5) Shadow operations

Thin their ranks isn't that useful vs that many(playing with my necrons i have faced it once. Gave like 5vp to enemy. Albeit　1.5k game). And not autowin vs necrons. Competive necrons haven't been fielding warriors and immortals long time and even less in 9th. Plus rp is dead rule as to use it unit needs to actually survive. That's not happening except once　in a blue moon. So don't count on rp giving more　bodies to kill. Necrons　learned early in 8th already rp doesn't help

Titan　slayer btw　is 10/12/15 for killing　1/2/3

Cut off the head - could be scored T1 or T2 if

1. Warlord is leman russ tank commander (or similar?)
2. Orks have wazboom, smg etc. Long range anti tank.

I scored it couple of times this way againts my guard friends. They want to shoot with him so you can shoot back.

That's certainly one way it can be archieved.

Though if IG player isn't moving tank so it can only be seen by part of ork army he deserves to give full vp's.

I feel like so far for most of my games (at least if you're using a buggy list) that Engage on All Fronts and Linebreaker are my two mains, and then I decide on the final one based on the mission, since stuff like Scorched Earth or other ones are usually more feasible than the other kill more or action based secondaries.

 Tomsug wrote:
Cut off the head - could be scored T1 or T2 if

1. Warlord is leman russ tank commander (or similar?)
2. Orks have wazboom, smg etc. Long range anti tank.

I scored it couple of times this way againts my guard friends. They want to shoot with him so you can shoot back.

My main Guard buddy always makes one of his on-foot characters his warlord for that reason. Orks will score a T1 kill against a Tank Commander WL 99% of the time.^^

You could troll your opponent and play a SAG / SSAG with the sniping trait and da jump him turn 1 for an T1 warlord kill unless its something with an 3++ which will be kinda hard. Maybe a Burna Bommer can help as well.
He might even survive if you have enough buggies / waggons to drive around him.

Did that once or twice in 9th and used this a lot in 8th to snipe my buddies BA Primaris Ancient to get rid of that awfull FnP.
He was not amused.

 Grimskul wrote:
I feel like so far for most of my games (at least if you're using a buggy list) that Engage on All Fronts and Linebreaker are my two mains, and then I decide on the final one based on the mission, since stuff like Scorched Earth or other ones are usually more feasible than the other kill more or action based secondaries.

What do you use for Linebreaker? I go for Engage all the time because i feel my opponent can do less against Engage than Linebreaker.

 Grimskul wrote:
I feel like so far for most of my games (at least if you're using a buggy list) that Engage on All Fronts and Linebreaker are my two mains, and then I decide on the final one based on the mission, since stuff like Scorched Earth or other ones are usually more feasible than the other kill more or action based secondaries.

You can have Engage on all Fronts and Linebreaker at the same time though?

Same question here - with 3 SJD and some Kommandos, Engage is easy.

Generaly - situation that one of seconderies is clear win for the other side because of your list is very often. Cut of the head, assasinate, abhorn the witch, grim them down....

I'm looking to get into Orks for 9th. They were my first army and I sold them a decade ago and kinda want to jump back in with a xenos army after my two years hiatus from 40k.
I've been reading this thread and digging in elsewhere, but I'm still trying to digest the new edition and missions etc.

I'm leaning into Speed Freaks / Evil Sunz right now. Something very mobile that's the opposite of my last army (AdMech pre-tranaports). So, here's what I'm thinking:

2x Trikes
8x Nob Bikers (mix of saws, BCs?)
3x KBBs
3x SJDs
1x Scrapjet
2x Deffkoptas
3x Trukk Boyz
1x Burna bommer

I guess this would be in an Outrider detachment.


I'm still working out particulars, but figured I'd get some input before I get too far ahead of myself. It does generally consist of models I actually want to build, btw. That's kinda a part of the reason behind some choices.

Any sage advice?

Looks solid so far. Death Skulls would be the superior choice for all your units except maybe the Nobbikers, but i guess you wanna paint them red?
Well you can still paint them red and just play as DS, thats what everyone is doing basicly.^^

Maybe add 1-2 Scrapjets and reduce KBB to 2 models but if you like the model you can absolutely play it. Those 3 Buggies are the ones you wanna go for.
Nob Bikers might not be the most competetive choice but if you go for Evil Sunz and don`t play tournaments you can upgrade your ES detachment with the Vigilus book to an Kult of Speed detachment and get 2 awesome strategems. (Double movement instead adding D6" when advancing & 2D6 instead 3" consolidation move)
Also, if you read the comments a few pages back, they can work with those kind of buggie lists, especially if you want to go for a fast low model count army.

Nobs & Nob Bikers are best equipped with double saw since the second saw is cheaper and you get an extra attack. I would go for 2-4 saw nobs and equip the rest with choppa + big choppa. That way each one of them gets 1 extra S5 attack and can use the other attacks for the big choppa.

Your list is about 1900 points if you play the boys without upgrades so one more Scrapjet can easily fit in. You could gear up the boys with double saw nob and take 1 rokkit if you like to get fancy stuff, but keep in mind its just 10 6+ dudes so it`s never wrong to just keep them cheap.
Personally i like to have at least 1 saw to proper kill Primaris and the like and if you go for DS the saw & rokkit(s) become quite good with all the rerolls.

If you are going evil suns and bikers... zhardsnark is an easy include.. he’s actually decent for his cost. With the biggest boss strat of course.

Got another game in, aganist a mate with genestealer cults. The boomer feels pretty meh to be honest, Not accurate enough to bother infantry, not hard hitting enough to dent vehicles. GSC are a good counter to the bomber strat. Corkscrew Scrapjets feel excellent, able to perform in pretty much every phase. Having a unit of shoota boyz hanging back in a trukk has been the MVP a few games in a row. Hopping out late game to deal with weakened units or nab objectives.

Mechanised orks feels pretty good right now i'm not going to lie.

Bring it down and one of the Battlefield supremacy (all three are good) are my go to for orks. Third secondary depends on the list and the mission but I don't like any of the No Mercy, No Respite and Warpcraft except Abhor the Witch in some particular match-ups. Teleport homers with 5 kommandos is my favorite one among Shadow Operation, but I only pick it if I have kommandos.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
I feel like so far for most of my games (at least if you're using a buggy list) that Engage on All Fronts and Linebreaker are my two mains, and then I decide on the final one based on the mission, since stuff like Scorched Earth or other ones are usually more feasible than the other kill more or action based secondaries.

You can have Engage on all Fronts and Linebreaker at the same time though?

Indeed he can´t. Those are the same category.

One thing that is premuim now imho is cheap deeping infantry and characters who can do Scramblers or Homer. We are well positioned there with Kommandos and Trukks bearing Boyz + Runtherds, Zagstrukk and Snikrot. In a pinch I´d say most of my 2nds are: Engage or Linebreaker and Scrambler or Homer + kill depending on opponent. Banners can be a choice vs more gunline builds like AM.

Next level is building to counter opponents Secondaries, and I don´t mean kill points since that distorts the army build. Despite claims to the contrary it´s not easy to create a viable list that also does not give up close to 10 points on either characters, monsters or vehicles. Rather how to react on their attepts at moving to score. Screening, strats, etc.

How to measure the distance between Mek gunz? The rulez are:


“ This unit contains 1 Mek Gun and 6 grot krew, one manning the weapon and five standing alongside it. ”

And

“ Mek Gunz must be placed within 6" of at least one other Mek Gun, and with each grot krew within 1" of their Mek Gun. ”

Option A = 6” between grots or gunz = Gun is 2” wide + 1” on each side + almost 1” grot base = axis distance is aprox. 12”

Option B = 6” between Gunz itself, Grots are not considered. Gunz are 2” wide = axis distance between Gunz = 8”

RAW is B, isn' t it?

Guns are part of model for all purposes except you can't draw los from grot(to grot is fine). That's why you can't really play without at least　putting base to them to cover space crew would take

Scactha wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
I feel like so far for most of my games (at least if you're using a buggy list) that Engage on All Fronts and Linebreaker are my two mains, and then I decide on the final one based on the mission, since stuff like Scorched Earth or other ones are usually more feasible than the other kill more or action based secondaries.

You can have Engage on all Fronts and Linebreaker at the same time though?

Indeed he can´t. Those are the same category.

One thing that is premuim now imho is cheap deeping infantry and characters who can do Scramblers or Homer. We are well positioned there with Kommandos and Trukks bearing Boyz + Runtherds, Zagstrukk and Snikrot. In a pinch I´d say most of my 2nds are: Engage or Linebreaker and Scrambler or Homer + kill depending on opponent. Banners can be a choice vs more gunline builds like AM.

Next level is building to counter opponents Secondaries, and I don´t mean kill points since that distorts the army build. Despite claims to the contrary it´s not easy to create a viable list that also does not give up close to 10 points on either characters, monsters or vehicles. Rather how to react on their attepts at moving to score. Screening, strats, etc.

Characters can't do scramblers, unfortunately.

tneva82 wrote:
Guns are part of model for all purposes except you can't draw los from grot(to grot is fine). That's why you can't really play without at least　putting base to them to cover space crew would take

? The question is, from where to where are you measuring the distance between during deployment?

So, looks like Nob Bikers might not be ideal, but I love the modelling opportunity. That being said, how are folks modelling paired Killsaws on them? Or on normal Nobz for that matter?

I figured maybe using the saw parts on the big choppas attached to the PK hands maybe? Anyone else have some clever solutions?