Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

It depends on their role. Tipycally the cheapest squad with no upgrades is perfect for Homer/Linebreaker, etc since you just need it to be alive and hidden in the enemy zone, never in combat.

Lists that rely heavily on deepstriking boyz and/or meganobz can definitely try fielding large squads of kommandos with PKs. Goffs for the extra attack, Evil Sunz for almost guaranteed charges, or Deathskullz for making them deepstriking trukk boyz.

I've always played them bare bones in min squads in 9th edition though since I prefer lists with tons of vehicles instead of massed footsloggers.

My Personal guess would be that the Kommandos joined the meganobs in the trukks to prevent losses from destroyed Transports...

I use Kommandos bare bones as well. Just throw them somewhere mid to late game where they can steal some VPs and hope they don't get shot to bits before I get my money's worth from them.

 Jidmah wrote:
I don't think that those kommandos are ever going to do any fighting, so spending less points is probably the better option, especially since two kommandoz cost less than one PK nob.

Yeah, by the time kommandos get into combat, they're usually half dead from either shooting or about to be wiped out by the unit that's charged them that turn. You usually have them doing actions like repair teleporters or helping get engage on all fronts/linebreaker, so there's little reason to give them CC gear.

Bossdoc wrote:
My Personal guess would be that the Kommandos joined the meganobs in the trukks to prevent losses from destroyed Transports...

That's a god spot, they are the cheapest way to get 5 models into a trukk with the MANs. Once the MANs are out of the trukk, the kommandos can try to hide away and perform secondary objectives. You could also chuck the kommandos out of the trukk halfway across the board to perform investigate sites.

 some bloke wrote:

Bossdoc wrote:
My Personal guess would be that the Kommandos joined the meganobs in the trukks to prevent losses from destroyed Transports...

That's a god spot, they are the cheapest way to get 5 models into a trukk with the MANs. Once the MANs are out of the trukk, the kommandos can try to hide away and perform secondary objectives. You could also chuck the kommandos out of the trukk halfway across the board to perform investigate sites.

Absolutely. It's our cheapest obsec (under DS) squad we can get. But I don't think taking the nob is wrong -- it's just if you want them to have the extra punch utility. Kommando Nob with DS re-rolls can probably do some damage to a weakened unit.

Just have a plan, or pay for utility, or scrimp.

Hey guys, just have a question for someone who's good at mathhammer. I play mech style orks, buggies, trukks with boys and some wagons. With defkilla trike. Evil sunz


So my question, I've been looking for some maths for Boomer gunwagon seem plenty of chatter about it but cant see anyone mentioning running a weird boy with "Visions in the smoke" psychic power. In my mind 4d6 shot assuming I'm moving under half, with More dakka and chapter master re rolls from Visions should be strong.

But is it worth the points investment? And is it as strong as I'm thinking?

Apologies if this has been discussed somwhere I just couldn't see it.

Orkboy27 wrote:

So my question, I've been looking for some maths for Boomer gunwagon seem plenty of chatter about it but cant see anyone mentioning running a weird boy with "Visions in the smoke" psychic power. In my mind 4d6 shot assuming I'm moving under half, with More dakka and chapter master re rolls from Visions should be strong.

It is, in a vacuum. Unfortunately weirdboyz aren't particularly effective if they don't gain some modifiers for their cast rolls which is hard to get for vehicles based lists. I think the best buffs for Da Boomer are the two re-rolls granted by the Deathskullz trait and the +1 to hit granted by the Freeboota one if it's triggered, both free and the first one is always in play.

I never found Visions in the Smoke particularly appealing but if you really want an Evil Sunz vehicle based army and manage to give the weirdboy a +2 or better modifier it could work. The Deathskullz psychic power is much more powerful though, a bonus to the AP (that works for ALL your units that fire and/or fight against the same target) and the -1 to hit for the enemy targeted unit plus the two re-rolls that all Deathskullz units get are superior than getting 3ish additional hits thanks to those re-rolls. Also in need of modifiers for the cast roll of course, even more than Visions since it's a WC7.

Thanks for your feedback. Couple things I should have mentioned I tend to have 10 boys in my gunwagon, to screen if needed, double up objectives ect. So I would be getting a +1 for a while gunwagon hangs back while everything else pushes forward so Gunwagon tends to stay around a while due to other more immediate threats. Visions is WC6 too so casting on a 5 for the most part.

But yeah thanks I'll certainly try some games as deathskulls as they work well enough for my list too.

Much appreciated

So, I've found in my last 2 games with them that flashgitz have been my MVP's. I've made a list to aim for with them, which I feel would do pretty well:



So essentially you have 3 battlewagons which output insane amounts of dakka, and 2 of them have a 5++. It's almost guaranteed to eliminate any 2 wound units, has the firepower for dealing with hordes, and has enough 2 damage wounds-on-5's output to deal with bigger opponents as well.

90 S6 AP-2 D2 shots a turn
3D6 S8 AP-2 D2 shots a turn
half a chance for one of the units to shoot again each turn
Freebootas being a modifier it will pass into units inside a transport, if I'm reading it right (modifiers do and freebootas is +1 to hit so flashgits in a freebootas wagon get +1 to hit) so aim to kill something with the wagons and then you have 3 units of flashgitz firing like primaris marines.

I just have to build another 22 flashgits now...

 some bloke wrote:
So, I've found in my last 2 games with them that flashgitz have been my MVP's. I've made a list to aim for with them, which I feel would do pretty well:

Spoiler:

Spearhead detachment
KFF Mek

9 flashgitz, kaptin, ammo runt
9 flashgitz, kaptin, ammo runt
9 flashgitz, kaptin, ammo runt
Battlewagon, killkannon, kustom job - forktress
Battlewagon, killkannon
Battlewagon, killkannon

1500 points

So essentially you have 3 battlewagons which output insane amounts of dakka, and 2 of them have a 5++. It's almost guaranteed to eliminate any 2 wound units, has the firepower for dealing with hordes, and has enough 2 damage wounds-on-5's output to deal with bigger opponents as well.

90 S6 AP-2 D2 shots a turn
3D6 S8 AP-2 D2 shots a turn
half a chance for one of the units to shoot again each turn
Freebootas being a modifier it will pass into units inside a transport, if I'm reading it right (modifiers do and freebootas is +1 to hit so flashgits in a freebootas wagon get +1 to hit) so aim to kill something with the wagons and then you have 3 units of flashgitz firing like primaris marines.

I just have to build another 22 flashgits now...

Trying to imagine the rules interaction on this one. So you fire the wagons one after another, lets say the first wagon (wagon A) manages to wipe out a unit of 2 gun drones. In that current moment the occupants of wagon A don't get the buff, because the wagon does not get the buff for killing something himself. Wagon B and C get it, so their occupants get it.

If during the shooting frenzy after wagon B and C don't kill anything, only their occupants do, then the occupants of Wagon A won't get the buff. If the wonky rules writing of GW allows any of the units inside to use their rules as they should that is.

cody.d. wrote:

 some bloke wrote:
So, I've found in my last 2 games with them that flashgitz have been my MVP's. I've made a list to aim for with them, which I feel would do pretty well:

Spoiler:

Spearhead detachment
KFF Mek

9 flashgitz, kaptin, ammo runt
9 flashgitz, kaptin, ammo runt
9 flashgitz, kaptin, ammo runt
Battlewagon, killkannon, kustom job - forktress
Battlewagon, killkannon
Battlewagon, killkannon

1500 points

So essentially you have 3 battlewagons which output insane amounts of dakka, and 2 of them have a 5++. It's almost guaranteed to eliminate any 2 wound units, has the firepower for dealing with hordes, and has enough 2 damage wounds-on-5's output to deal with bigger opponents as well.

90 S6 AP-2 D2 shots a turn
3D6 S8 AP-2 D2 shots a turn
half a chance for one of the units to shoot again each turn
Freebootas being a modifier it will pass into units inside a transport, if I'm reading it right (modifiers do and freebootas is +1 to hit so flashgits in a freebootas wagon get +1 to hit) so aim to kill something with the wagons and then you have 3 units of flashgitz firing like primaris marines.

I just have to build another 22 flashgits now...

Trying to imagine the rules interaction on this one. So you fire the wagons one after another, lets say the first wagon (wagon A) manages to wipe out a unit of 2 gun drones. In that current moment the occupants of wagon A don't get the buff, because the wagon does not get the buff for killing something himself. Wagon B and C get it, so their occupants get it.

If during the shooting frenzy after wagon B and C don't kill anything, only their occupants do, then the occupants of Wagon A won't get the buff. If the wonky rules writing of GW allows any of the units inside to use their rules as they should that is.

I believe that if any wagon succeeds in killing a unit, assuming hey are within range of each other, all of the wagons (including itself) will benefit (though the wagon will not be able to fire again, it is still benefiting) and so all of the flashgitz inside will also benefit.

If the flashgits kill a unit then they cannot give out an aura as they are not on the board, so no-one can be within 24" of them - alas, not even themselves if they roll a 6 for gun crazy showoffs, I believe, unless a rule specifically states that a unit is always classed as being within range of itself somewhere in the Auras section.

as such it's imperative to use the killkannons first to try and delete a unit! If that's not possible, you'd have to fire one unit of gits and then a killkannon to try and finish the unit off and trigger the aura for everyone.

I'm really struggling to work out what this army would struggle to delete. 90 shots is 45 hits, so 15 wounds on T7+, assume a 3+ save dropped to 5+, or a 5++, so 10 wounds go through = 20 wounds lost. plus killkannons, kaptins, ammo runt rerolls, dakkadakkadakka, freeboota kulture and gun crazy showoffs. The maths is difficult here... but I feel that this volume of damage output could be quite overwhelming. AP-2 is the perfect amount with mass firepower, as invulns tend to be 4++ at best and 5++ in general, so anything more than AP-2 will be wasted on invulns, and volume of fire will get through the invulns, and damage 2 will demolish anything non-horde.

Then you have to remember that they are Nobs in close combat so can actually clear off what's left of a unit in CC quite easily, and be repositioned ready to not move next turn.

I'm very excited to start making me some more flashgitz!

You'd need something better than 3 Killkannons to get the Freeboota's bonus. You'll hardly kill anything with those Killkannons, which is, kind of ironic... ^^

Sadly not Somebloke. The Freebootaz trait has the word other in it, meaning the unit itself can never benefit if it gets to fire twice, like flashgitz using guncrazy showoffs and Naughts when you could fire twice using Kustom Ammo.

"Add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made by models with this KULTUR if any other friendly unit with this KULTUR within 24" has destroyed an enemy unit this phase."

Also it has to be a unit on the table to trigger it eh.

Even if your flash gits kill something they don’t trigger the trait if they are in the wagon. They aren’t within 24” of any unit.

Yeah, Freeboota +1 affects embarked passengers due to Open Topped, but they cant trigger it as theyre not on the board.
Technically theyre not benefiting from freeboota aura is why it works, the freeboota wagon is just passing it on because its a modifier.

This is why Mek Gunz or planes are so common in freeboota lists.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Yeah, Freeboota +1 affects embarked passengers due to Open Topped, but they cant trigger it as theyre not on the board.
Technically theyre not benefiting from freeboota aura is why it works, the freeboota wagon is just passing it on because its a modifier.

This is why Mek Gunz or planes are so common in freeboota lists.

That and they're disgustingly cheap and killy. A handful of smasha guns are almost certain to kill something if they have LOS.

But yeah, it's tempting to try and work around a list like that. Kill something, pass the buff onto the transports which hand the buff onto the freebootaz inside. Adds some speed and protection to the orks inside. And you can always loot it when they get popped.

Still wish GW would fix the opened topped rules. Make the unit an extension of the transport perhaps? Or treat the unit as existing in the same physical space as the transport but be untargetable to friendly or enemy weapons/physic powers/stratagems.

Even though only 3 or so armies make use to the rule it's still pretty important to those factions and how they interact with the game. (Still want the ability to disembark after moving)

Open top rule now is pretty stupid.

I think out of all iterations of the open topped rule, the one in 8th still the best. I think in 9th they wanted it to work the same, but they just failed hard on writing the rules.

When you try to write a water-tight rule for open topped yourself, it tends to get wordy really quick.

Thats how i view it, they tried to quickly word how it worked in 8th and accidentally completely screwed it over. And far as i know orks are the only ones that technically suffer from this, as Harlies/DE dont have any innate rules that are lost. Their rules are stratagems (which didnt work) melee based or mention transports anyway so it still works.

Nobody in my area has questioned me when i use innate rules in opentopped still. Few times i mentioned it they respond with "thats fething stupid i dont believe that"

 Vineheart01 wrote:
And far as i know orks are the only ones that technically suffer from this, as Harlies/DE dont have any innate rules that are lost.

DE poison weapons are one, technically when fired from a vehicle they don't have the poison ability and thus no strength value, which there is no way to handle such a weapon in the rules.

I mean I've not found anyone who isnt just ruling it like 8th, most people see how wrong the 9th edition rules on this are.

GT breakdown.

https://www.goonhammer.com/tournament-report-labor-day-gt/

 Nym wrote:
You'd need something better than 3 Killkannons to get the Freeboota's bonus. You'll hardly kill anything with those Killkannons, which is, kind of ironic... ^^

Alas, I don't have the points in there for much else. If I drop the 3 killkannons that gives me points for one mek gun - that'll never do as much damage as 3 killkannons!

Average of 10.5 shots nets us what, 3 hits? maybe 4 with dakkadakkadakka? eeesh... killkannons really do suck. Maybe it'd be worth adding the boomer on one of them - I know it's not a gunwagon but I need the open topped for the gitz.

Do kommandoes get to pay 10 pts for a nob upgrade?

 koooaei wrote:
Do kommandoes get to pay 10 pts for a nob upgrade?

Technically they do, because their nob has to have a PK.

 koooaei wrote:
Do kommandoes get to pay 10 pts for a nob upgrade?

Like Jidmah said, it's the mandatory weapon cost since the Ork codex version, in contrast to the Index, gives no options at all for Kommandos outside of 1 kommando getting taking a tankbusta bomb for ever 5 guys in the unit, with the Kommando Nob having to take the PK because the resin kit only has him with that option.

Kinda dumb IMO, hopefully whatever stuff they're planning for Orks in the next two years replaces the resin kits, if only to give us some more semblance of options.

 Grimskul wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Do kommandoes get to pay 10 pts for a nob upgrade?

Like Jidmah said, it's the mandatory weapon cost since the Ork codex version, in contrast to the Index, gives no options at all for Kommandos outside of 1 kommando getting taking a tankbusta bomb for ever 5 guys in the unit, with the Kommando Nob having to take the PK because the resin kit only has him with that option.

Kinda dumb IMO, hopefully whatever stuff they're planning for Orks in the next two years replaces the resin kits, if only to give us some more semblance of options.

What was extra dumb is that Forgeworld was actually selling a Kommando upgrade kit with a big choppa -- so you literally had a different model set with Big Choppas being sold by them.

Why would a Kommando always take a big clunky klaw? GW logic.

It is possible to run 5-15 kommandos with no nob though. If you want the nob then yes, it also comes with the mandatory 10pts power klaw.

tulun wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Do kommandoes get to pay 10 pts for a nob upgrade?

Like Jidmah said, it's the mandatory weapon cost since the Ork codex version, in contrast to the Index, gives no options at all for Kommandos outside of 1 kommando getting taking a tankbusta bomb for ever 5 guys in the unit, with the Kommando Nob having to take the PK because the resin kit only has him with that option.

Kinda dumb IMO, hopefully whatever stuff they're planning for Orks in the next two years replaces the resin kits, if only to give us some more semblance of options.

What was extra dumb is that Forgeworld was actually selling a Kommando upgrade kit with a big choppa -- so you literally had a different model set with Big Choppas being sold by them.

Why would a Kommando always take a big clunky klaw? GW logic.

Unfortunately, it rarely seems FW options ever play a role in what Xenos armies have available rules-wise. Especially since so much of the FW stuff has been phased out in favour of HH instead of 40k, it's a surprise that the WB on Warbike is even on the store considering they wrote him out of the Munitorum Field Manual, since they don't even bother renaming him as Zhadsnark.

There also was an upgrade sprue from GW for adding rokkits to BW and trukks...