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2020/09/16 17:01:47
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
Pretty nice way to nerf parking lot SM lists. Slight nerf to Ghaz too though which is a bummer.
the wording indicates only some auras are being nerfed to not affect the user, so we will see "many of the most powerful aura abilities will only affect Core units from a Character’s (sub-)faction" not all just many
10000 points 7000 6000 5000 5000 2000
2020/09/16 19:21:20
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
gungo wrote: I’m still of the mind our only truly competitive lists are
goff greentide boys with mega Orks
Or deffskulls buggy lists
And I’m hesitant about the future of buggy lists once the imperium gets thier massive codex boost (not to mention the Fw book update mainly helps them) and we are stuck waiting for the ork codex to update our weapons.
I think lists will open up more once our codex comes out...
I'm not inclined to agree there. The Ork codex has so many viable builds in it, I've had success with dreads (shooting and fighting), buggies, bikes, vehicles, hordes, I've got a trial list of the all-tellyporting army of doom to try out (deffkoptas and kommandos for DS, then boys and da jump for more deepstrike, plus shokkjump dragstas for even more deepstrike...)... There's so much option in Ork armies, whittling it down to 2 builds, and one of them widely regarded as effective but kinda boring to run (green tide), is very much a narrow approach or an exceptionally diverse army! Possibly the most diverse army in the game.
I agree. I know that a few years ago there was a Tyranid Player that brought a bunch of Lictors (which I believe at the time was pretty off meta because at the time it was all Flyrant spam) and he won a GT. People who bring things that are different can do decently even if they aren't one of the things that we call viable. I think that we should encourage people to try to find lists instead of bullying them by saying "things are meta for a reason" both in a tournament setting and in casual play.
Knowledge of your army, other armies can do, and what your mission is what wins games. If you can bring a list you know very well and understand what your opponent can do will do more than picking a list from the internet that "wins games".
God is real!
2020/09/16 19:24:00
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
Yeah, that's big for us, since we are one of the few factions where we don't rely on auras as the cornerstone of our list and blobbing to take advantage of it. This is a good way of toning down rerolls in the game without completely gutting it as a rule, we'll see what counts as "core" for a lot of SM lists, since intercessors will still be a problem but if Aggressors aren't affected that makes a big change for what units can just walk up and delete units with impunity. It also makes Smash Captains much less reliable.
I do hope that means WAAAGH! doesn't change to only affect core units though, because it'd be kind of dumb if we end up in another pre-FAQ Ghaz situation again where the Warboss can get his boyz to run, but he himself can't get stuck in.
2020/09/16 20:12:00
Subject: Re:We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
I guess the most prominent auras that get the "core units only" treatment will be rerolling hits & wounds. Thats a fairly basic one that most armies have access to. (even Orks )
More specialised ones like advancing & charging might get the same treatment or simply circumvent it by adding the rule on the relevant datasheets itself.
(Like Warboss & Ghazgkull.)
At last there are the rare, army specific ones like Death Guard dealing mortal wounds or Magnus letting Psykers reroll 1s.
They might stay, as they are some powerfull but also unique and thematic abilities or simply don`t make any sense otherwise.
But that Chapter master + Lieutenant nerf is allready quite a step and is overall great for us since we basicly play without aura rerolls and don`t care much about this.
I`m looking forward to see the SM release for more information, i guess we will see then how GW will probably treat future books.
Also strategems / warlord traits that still buff other units / one other unit might become a thing. Kinda like AoS where you have command abilities that often buff just one unit.
2020/09/16 21:55:18
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
I highly doubt that the Waaagh! aura would be limited in such a way after they went through the trouble to FAQ Thrakka to benefit from his own Waaagh!.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/09/16 22:05:39
Subject: Re:We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
cody.d. wrote: Isn't that a bit of a rude assertion to make of someone you don't know?
The herd mentality is strong.
I think everyone doesn´t see a difference between before and now. Before killing and durability was VP, but now it just isn´t. The game has widened from a kill most to zone control, which is totally different. As such I find e.g. the Boyz discussion skewed. The answer to the question why take Boyz if they get shot by the opponent is "what did they not shoot then?"
Not sure if it's herd mentality as much as talking to someone with basic curtesy, let's have some orkish civility.
As for the aura changes, it'll be interesting to see how this affects things. Some armies will be hit harder I think, depending on how GW chooses to pass out the Core keyword. Maybe we'll see big changes to say, the tau riptide lists if the commanders re-roll buff only affects core. The community page only mentioned captain and lieutenants, goodness knows if this will be affecting painboyz, Waaagh banners or the like. Most of our Auras aren't as straight forword as just re-rolling 1s. We get odd little movement buffs or durability buffs. IF KFFs only work on core and assuming none of the vehicles get core then that's going to be one hell of a blow to mech lists. I mean it could be worth it to not be hit by a full squad of centurions rerolling everything throwing dakka down range.
This could really shift up what we can expect to see on the field in most of the game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 22:12:30
2020/09/16 23:20:58
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
It's highly doubtful the KFF, a literal force field, would somehow not affect our squishy vehicles, or Orks signature thing, advancing and charging, would somehow be taken away.
Neither is game breaking like universally never having your army miss.
They are trying to limit re-rolls in the game because they make units too efficient for too little cost. This also will help speed up the game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 23:21:43
2020/09/16 23:41:14
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
It's also possible they may restructure our auras as a whole whenever the codex comes out. After all, the wartrikes buff currently affects a fair few units of varying usefulness. If just things like bikers become core, but not the various battlewagons, deffdreads and other vehicles with okay assault ability (including himself) then the wartrikes utility would absolutely plummet.
2020/09/17 03:26:06
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
That would be crippling to both buggy spam and boy spam since it would effect every warboss, ghaz and likely speedboss unit...I don’t think they will change it since it’s already limited to ork infantry (no Gretchin).
But ya ghaz reroll abd Waagh banner both are exactly the reroll auras I don’t think GW wants working on every battlewagon, kan, or dread..
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/17 10:12:42
2020/09/17 04:46:39
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
operkoi wrote: My big fear is warbosses and/or ghaz loosing advance + charge if Waaagh! is one of those auras becoming core only
As pointed out above, this is very unlikely to happen, as it would go against the very intent of the change itself - heros leading from the front.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/09/17 07:59:15
Subject: Re:We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
operkoi wrote: My big fear is warbosses and/or ghaz loosing advance + charge if Waaagh! is one of those auras becoming core only
As pointed out above, this is very unlikely to happen, as it would go against the very intent of the change itself - heros leading from the front.
I think it will happen. Captains not getting re rolls themselves. Why should bosses get to charge after advance. We'll see if the biker boss is going to pass the aura to boyz. And if he will, just go back to the biker version.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/17 08:32:56
2020/09/17 09:05:46
Subject: Re:We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
9 meganobs, 3 units of 5 tankbustas 2 units of 10 boys with only one trukk between them, so lots of little units walking, I feel like they won't get that far. 3 Meganobs is the toughest unit there and even that isn't enormously hard to kill, and with movement 4, they would have to be aimed at standing by nearby objectives, really. The warboss can run with them, but the best targets for da jump (30 boys) will need to hang around with the weirdboy and the boss to keep them from being a target - if he's in with the MANs, then the opponent only has to kill 1 MAN from each squad and he's a target.
I think that one of their deff dreads has 5 arms; guessing all of them have 2 KMB, 1 big shoota and a klaw.
Traktor kannons seem to be overlooked quite often. Presumably because you have a good chance of getting more than 1 hit with other mek guns - kustom mega kannon springing to mind. Having 2 guaranteed S8 hits in your army isn't a bad thing to have, though.
I honesly don't know how I feel about the list. On one hand, it'll be easy to kill the units. On the other, there are a lot of units and they will perform lots of actions, and they are all objective secured, so will have board control. But very little staying power.
I think if the 3 stormboys mobs stick together on one flank and focus on linebreaker, objectives and mobbing up on some weaker units, they will do alright.
'tis an odd list, so it is.
12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!
operkoi wrote: My big fear is warbosses and/or ghaz loosing advance + charge if Waaagh! is one of those auras becoming core only
As pointed out above, this is very unlikely to happen, as it would go against the very intent of the change itself - heros leading from the front.
I think it will happen. Captains not getting re rolls themselves. Why should bosses get to charge after advance. We'll see if the biker boss is going to pass the aura to boyz. And if he will, just go back to the biker version.
Because they errata'ed Thrakka's aura to do exactly that. GW clearly things that warbosses should be able to Waaagh! just like every other orks.
Bosses should get to charge because that's what ork bosses do - they charge in first and expect the ladz to follow. Don't forget that Waaagh! used to be an army-wide rule and only got turned into an aura in 8th.
Not allowing them to advance and charge would be one of the most stupid things the could do, and it would have the exact opposite effect of what they are trying to do with that "core change" - ork warbosses will hang back instead of leading from the front. It would go against the entire reasoning behind the "core" change.
Something that's also possible is that warbosses simply get the "core" keyword, while something like a weird boy doesn't.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Scactha wrote: Agree, their point is that it´s mainly a narrative change. A good thing imo.
What do you think about this one from Art of War? They toot their horns alot about being very competitive.
Spoiler:
Warboss (Attack Squig, Da Biggest Boss, Da Killa Klaw, Kunnin but Brutal, Kustom Shoota, Power Klaw, Warlord) 83
I don't know about Art of War, but this clearly looks like a marine/eldar player tried to write an ork list without having any real insight on how the army works. Pretty much the typical thing you see on youtube channels.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/17 09:51:48
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/09/17 10:19:12
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
I think it's a fair bet that WAAAGH! stays the same, as it already stipulates that it affects Infantry. The addition of "Core" units is because of auras which affect everything in range, including tanks, which is obviously causing the armies to play differently to how the designers intedned - chapter masters should be buffing infantry and not tanks. It's also a fair assumption that they will keep buffing dreadnoughts, because otherwise why would they not just say "Infantry" in the rule instead of adding a whole new "Core" system.
I think the "Core" system will add something nice to the game, if I'm honest. the traditional elite, heavy, fast, troop, hq setup is too narrow for the units in the game these days, so having a separate "Core" tag which denotes units which look to their leaders for inspiration, and then the non-core stuff is functionally independent, will add a lot to the game.
12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!
some bloke wrote: I think it's a fair bet that WAAAGH! stays the same, as it already stipulates that it affects Infantry. The addition of "Core" units is because of auras which affect everything in range, including tanks, which is obviously causing the armies to play differently to how the designers intedned - chapter masters should be buffing infantry and not tanks. It's also a fair assumption that they will keep buffing dreadnoughts, because otherwise why would they not just say "Infantry" in the rule instead of adding a whole new "Core" system.
I think the "Core" system will add something nice to the game, if I'm honest. the traditional elite, heavy, fast, troop, hq setup is too narrow for the units in the game these days, so having a separate "Core" tag which denotes units which look to their leaders for inspiration, and then the non-core stuff is functionally independent, will add a lot to the game.
I agree. The core system and the 0-1 limitation of some HQs was introduced because a few armies can put one or two cheap HQ near tanks to give them generic re-rolls. Re-rolls that work for every unit and in both phases. GW wanted to remove this mechanic, Waaagh has always been a rule for orks, it would be very silly if warbosses can't benefit from it anymore. It's very different than removing re-rolls on WS2+/BS2+ characters. Ghaz will probably lose his re-rolling 1s ability for himself, not the Waaagh.
2020/09/17 11:26:08
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
operkoi wrote: My big fear is warbosses and/or ghaz loosing advance + charge if Waaagh! is one of those auras becoming core only
As pointed out above, this is very unlikely to happen, as it would go against the very intent of the change itself - heros leading from the front.
I think it will happen. Captains not getting re rolls themselves. Why should bosses get to charge after advance. We'll see if the biker boss is going to pass the aura to boyz. And if he will, just go back to the biker version.
Because they errata'ed Thrakka's aura to do exactly that. GW clearly things that warbosses should be able to Waaagh! just like every other orks.
Bosses should get to charge because that's what ork bosses do - they charge in first and expect the ladz to follow. Don't forget that Waaagh! used to be an army-wide rule and only got turned into an aura in 8th.
Not allowing them to advance and charge would be one of the most stupid things the could do, and it would have the exact opposite effect of what they are trying to do with that "core change" - ork warbosses will hang back instead of leading from the front. It would go against the entire reasoning behind the "core" change.
Something that's also possible is that warbosses simply get the "core" keyword, while something like a weird boy doesn't.
But that's exactly what they manage to pull off every time. Just take a look at clan rules when they got implemented. Evil sunz never get used in speedy lists and instead are used to buff meganobz and foots logging boyz. Snakebites don't stack with painboy and this are only used in mechanical lists to get some extra durability for vehicles. Infamous blood axes buff units that stand in the open while ptproviding no real benefit to... Blood axe kommandoes. And so on.
I think making bosses loose their ability to advance and charge is EXACTLY what gw would do. At least till the first couple faqs. Also, faq getting invalidated with the next rules update is not unheard of.
2020/09/17 13:06:20
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
Well, if you already assume that GW will feth up everything, now is probably the best time to sell your army while the marine players still think orks are top tier *shrugs*.
Right now, we know what their intention behind this change is and we know that they intend bosses to charge and advance, and we also know that they are quite likely to back out of changes that screw over orks because they are aware of the massive backlashes this causes on social media channels.
I'm fairly confident that while orks are fairly lucky if they gain anything from the next codex, we are pretty unlikely to lose anything.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/09/17 13:15:17
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
I don't know about Art of War, but this clearly looks like a marine/eldar player tried to write an ork list without having any real insight on how the army works. Pretty much the typical thing you see on youtube channels.
Art of War is the house that John Lennon, Richard Siegler, Mark Perry, and Nick Nanavati live in.
That's a Mark Perry list. Guy is obviously good at 40k, but I feel like his approach to Ork lists is nonsensical.
2020/09/17 13:27:10
Subject: Re:We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
some bloke wrote: I think if the 3 stormboys mobs stick together on one flank and focus on linebreaker, objectives and mobbing up on some weaker units, they will do alright.
'tis an odd list, so it is.
This one confused me in particular. In what cases are Storms better than Kommandos? When you actually want to kill something I guess.
More on the Core discussion. I think this is also driven on an aesthetic perspective. The game just doesn´t match the art and that´s disappointing. I get the feeling that they want the game to play more as you´d envision. Not the typical wargame killfest where everyone is chasing the killiest stuff and huff and puff over being forced to take "non functional" choices.
Another possible driver is finance. If players go competitive and buys the most lethal stuff, other things suffer. This one is impossible to evaluate from the outside, but it´s reasonable for the to try and spread out the power across their products.
2020/09/17 13:40:08
Subject: Re:We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
some bloke wrote: I think if the 3 stormboys mobs stick together on one flank and focus on linebreaker, objectives and mobbing up on some weaker units, they will do alright.
'tis an odd list, so it is.
This one confused me in particular. In what cases are Storms better than Kommandos? When you actually want to kill something I guess.
Stormboyz can achieve turn 1 charges -- you can auto advance them 6". Can be advantageous.
Honestly, I think Stormboyz are great action bots that you can possibly field on the board, while you have to deep strike or transport Kommandos. If they are perfectly deep strike screening you out, Stormboyz can possibly get in position to do scramblers. You could also have them raise a banner turn 1 on a more middle objective as they have a 12" move.
They can even ride in transports, albeit taking two slots -- but you could do something like this.
Turn 1: unit of stormboyz scramblers in your zone, while a trukk advances to the midboard. Turn 2: Stormboyz move or advance to the trukk, get inside, the trukk moves up so they can get into position for an opportunistic charge or to do another action.
They cost a bit more than Kommandos but I think they have play. It just largely depends on your board and how well your opponents screen out deep strikers if it's worth paying a bit more. They just aren't as easy to use as Kommando.
2020/09/17 13:50:50
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
I don't know about Art of War, but this clearly looks like a marine/eldar player tried to write an ork list without having any real insight on how the army works. Pretty much the typical thing you see on youtube channels.
Art of War is the house that John Lennon, Richard Siegler, Mark Perry, and Nick Nanavati live in.
That's a Mark Perry list. Guy is obviously good at 40k, but I feel like his approach to Ork lists is nonsensical.
I see. Apparently Mark is a genius when it comes to playing chaos and now tries to apply that knowledge to orks. Makes sense when you look at the list.
It's also worth noting that Nick Nanavati failed to make orks work for him for over half a year, and not for the lack of trying. It's simply not an army you can switch to when they become powerful. Almost all top placements across 8th were done by ork veterans who play them as at least one of their primary armies.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/17 13:54:57
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/09/17 15:40:56
Subject: We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
To be fair top tier ork greentide is hard to play...
It’s unforgiving on mistakes as the movement phase tends to be extremely important...
You have to understand your opponents army... deny them their own area of movement. Try to engage as many of your units by charges or multi charges and the pile ins. All while keeping units in range of painsboys, kff and now ghaz auras. It’s mentally draining preplanning those movements because that’s how greentide wins.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/17 15:42:26
2020/09/17 15:59:12
Subject: Re:We was made ta fight an’ win! - 9th Edition Ork Tactics
tulun wrote: Stormboyz can achieve turn 1 charges -- you can auto advance them 6". Can be advantageous.
Honestly, I think Stormboyz are great action bots that you can possibly field on the board, while you have to deep strike or transport Kommandos. If they are perfectly deep strike screening you out, Stormboyz can possibly get in position to do scramblers. You could also have them raise a banner turn 1 on a more middle objective as they have a 12" move.
They can even ride in transports, albeit taking two slots -- but you could do something like this.
Turn 1: unit of stormboyz scramblers in your zone, while a trukk advances to the midboard. Turn 2: Stormboyz move or advance to the trukk, get inside, the trukk moves up so they can get into position for an opportunistic charge or to do another action.
They cost a bit more than Kommandos but I think they have play. It just largely depends on your board and how well your opponents screen out deep strikers if it's worth paying a bit more. They just aren't as easy to use as Kommando.
Good points.Going over stuff is the same reason I use Raptors in my CSM. Button pushers galore.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
7000 
)
