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 Jidmah wrote:
Well, if you already assume that GW will feth up everything, now is probably the best time to sell your army while the marine players still think orks are top tier *shrugs*.

Right now, we know what their intention behind this change is and we know that they intend bosses to charge and advance, and we also know that they are quite likely to back out of changes that screw over orks because they are aware of the massive backlashes this causes on social media channels.

I'm fairly confident that while orks are fairly lucky if they gain anything from the next codex, we are pretty unlikely to lose anything.

On the contrary, I bought 70% of my current collection during 6th when all local ork players were selling stuff.

I think get will forget about warbosses but it's not as bad for us. Marines and csm are getting debuffed way more severely. Yeah, advancing + charging with a killa klaw boss is really good but we'll have to play without it. I think we'll pull it off regardless.

Nobody talking about the return of the Warboss on bike? ...is this old news or did i miss it in the thread??

They previewed the FW book last weekend. Apparently they got rid of zhardsnark and replaced him with a generic 'warboss on warbike'

 koooaei wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

operkoi wrote:
My big fear is warbosses and/or ghaz loosing advance + charge if Waaagh! is one of those auras becoming core only

As pointed out above, this is very unlikely to happen, as it would go against the very intent of the change itself - heros leading from the front.

I think it will happen. Captains not getting re rolls themselves. Why should bosses get to charge after advance. We'll see if the biker boss is going to pass the aura to boyz. And if he will, just go back to the biker version.

Keep in mind the history of these buffs. Did SM characters provide rerolls prior to 8th? On the other hand, what did Warbosses do? Basically they were character beat sticks if I remember correctly. So what GW did was give SM players incredibly powerful buffs, reroll hits/wounds (Either of 1 or in general). What did orkz get? We lost our Waaagh Army ability and moved it into an aura for the warboss. So our buff was technically a limitation on what we could previously do. Granted it became a constant small area buff instead of a once a game buff. I have to be honest though, i do miss those surprised faces when I screamed WAAAAAGH!!!!!!!!!!! in a game store, both from the people nearby who are usually scared and from my opponent who didn't realize my Ork boyz were going to 6 +D6 + 2D6 into his face.

RedNoak wrote:
Nobody talking about the return of the Warboss on bike? ...is this old news or did i miss it in the thread??

They previewed the FW book last weekend. Apparently they got rid of zhardsnark and replaced him with a generic 'warboss on warbike'

Oh it has been mate, and I think a lotta people are pretty keen on it. I'm sorta concerned if we'll lose some options, become killsaw only. (which will be alleviated if the killsaw gets a buff or we get a relic killsaw in the next book)

If nothing else. Excuse to convert!

im not sure if he'd lose options because FW did not adapt the "no model no rules" thing last time. Stuff they werent selling went away but they didnt strip a bunch of options that normally you'd have to kitbash.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
im not sure if he'd lose options because FW did not adapt the "no model no rules" thing last time. Stuff they werent selling went away but they didnt strip a bunch of options that normally you'd have to kitbash.

Certainly possible. But haven't we heard that GW will be writing the new rules for all the Forgeworld stuff? Or was that misinformation I heard somewhere? (both are as likely as not)

I mean, at this point we have no idea if FW will be changing their rule writing style. I'm assuming they're waiting till all the new weapon profiles are updated/confirmed/released so stuff has a semblance of coherency.

What we know about the FW books so far is that they are indeed written by GW this time, we know elysians and R&H aren't coming back and despite that over 100 datasheets are missing compared to the current indexes.

Considering that massive discrepancy in datasheets, it's pretty likely that anything without a model is going away.

Warboss on bike coming back has me thinking about my old biker list, hmm...

On another note, I hear Orks got second place in one tournament by running out the clock so I bet you all are excited to be such an overpowered meta-crushing experience!

But to get to the serious question; what do people think about the future of the deffopta?

Brisbane GT list. Only Ork player.

Let's hope they pull it off

https://downunderpairings.com/ArmyList.php?ArmyID=28981

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Warboss on bike coming back has me thinking about my old biker list, hmm...

On another note, I hear Orks got second place in one tournament by running out the clock so I bet you all are excited to be such an overpowered meta-crushing experience!

He said that the clock running out helped, not that he was aiming for it. Keep in mind that most tournament circuits allow people to time their games with chess clocks now, so gaming the clock is not an actual option.

But to get to the serious question; what do people think about the future of the deffopta?

It's a fast unit in with an ok pricetag. While you probably don't want to run units of five in an infantry list because of bring it down, but it's definitely an option for any list that's already giving up 15 VP of vehicles/monsters anyways.

Solo koptas are legit units, cheap and fast. Amazing in small games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

He said that the clock running out helped, not that he was aiming for it. Keep in mind that most tournament circuits allow people to time their games with chess clocks now, so gaming the clock is not an actual option.

True, but many tournament games typically end before their natural conclusion anyway because there is a time limitation that is necessary to allow 4-5 games in the same day.

3 turns games help green tide armies a lot instead of possible 5 turns ones.

If you are playing on a chess clock and you only manage to play 3 turns, your opponent will still get 5. For all ITC and ETC games, players are usually allowed to ask the TO for a chess clock if they assume time is going to be a problem.

If there is a 90min time limitation on the game, it won't last 5 turns.

tulun wrote:
Brisbane GT list. Only Ork player.

Let's hope they pull it off

https://downunderpairings.com/ArmyList.php?ArmyID=28981

We' ll see. I have a bad experiences with one flyier. One is not enought. Enemy usually focus the fire T1 on the flyier. And takes one down. Nothing left.

Take two (or three - in 8th always three), or nothing. I take wazboom and bommer. Wazboom looks bigger, have a big gunz, gives 5++, is deployed on front and looks like A-10 Warhog, so they fire on wazboom. Sometimes kills him. Sometimes not. But Eadbut will happen, because Bommer deployed in rear and looks smaller and unarmed is untouched. Little bit more of psychological warfare than mathammer, but works fine

Hi
Regarding the new FW datasheets; anyone knows if Chinork is in it?

 Nora wrote:
Hi
Regarding the new FW datasheets; anyone knows if Chinork is in it?

There has been no information on it. There is a chance that it isn't though.

Deffkoptas are an ok-ish scoring unit. They deal close to no damage but are very fast and have fly. Which is very important to grab objectives or get into table quarters for secondaries. They do give up easy points themselves, so not all lists will benefit from koptas. But both our main archetypes - green tide and buggy spam - don't mind a kopts or two flying around if you have a free FA slot.

Thank you all for the info, but I was more looking to 'do you think it will be moved to legends' or get a new kit...?

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Thank you all for the info, but I was more looking to 'do you think it will be moved to legends' or get a new kit...?

I don't think the deffkopta will get sent to legends since they still make the metal one. I doubt it gets a new kit soon though.

Deff Koptas can basically guarantee you engage on all fronts turn 1 / 2. By turn 3, you're probably all over the board or dead.

Seems like a great use of 70 points to me to guarantee 4 VPs, as well as screen out deep strikers.

The caveat is that the FA attack is super, super contested imo. It might be our best slot right now, between KBB, Dragsters, Mega Trakks, Stormboyz and Deff Koptas.

Deff Koptas are great - i use them just for engage turn 1-2 and it works like a charm, especially paired with Dragstas.

2 with big shootas are 70 points which is fair. If i got 30 points to spare somehow i give them kopta rokkits. They are quite expensive and will still die quick, but i like the reliable Dakka they put out as DS.

But yeah, the FA slot is really crowded. 2 patrol give you 4 slots for 2 koptas and 2x3 Scrapjets + 2x3 Dragsta.
The big downside with the Outrider detachment is the 3 CP tax even if it is your only detachment. Combined with all the kustom jobs and other stuff i end up with less than 6 CP most of the time. :(


I am still not a 100% convinced about the KBB. Sure it`s really cheap, has a great strategem, an mediocre - okish kustom job and good chaff cleaning potential, but the main gun kinda disappoints most of the time. Right now i have 3 Dragstas, 3 Scrapjets and 1 KBB. But honestly i think i will rather play more Scrapjets or other stuff than getting more KBB.
Has someone here had success with 2-4 KBB?

I’m fairly certain we will never get an updated deffkopta. Instead it will get legend and we get a new dual kit ork kopter with the only difference between the two new units is weapon load outs. One will likely have a bunch of big shootas and have a 10 man transport.. the other more like the wazbom loadout and no capacity. This is literally how gw creates sales and revenue now.

gungo wrote:
I’m fairly certain we will never get an updated deffkopta. Instead it will get legend and we get a new dual kit ork kopter with the only difference between the two new units is weapon load outs. One will likely have a bunch of big shootas and have a 10 man transport.. the other more like the wazbom loadout and no capacity. This is literally how gw creates sales and revenue now.

I still cant believe they made tons of new plastic ones for AOBR and never made them the official model

 Billagio wrote:

gungo wrote:
I’m fairly certain we will never get an updated deffkopta. Instead it will get legend and we get a new dual kit ork kopter with the only difference between the two new units is weapon load outs. One will likely have a bunch of big shootas and have a 10 man transport.. the other more like the wazbom loadout and no capacity. This is literally how gw creates sales and revenue now.

I still cant believe they made tons of new plastic ones for AOBR and never made them the official model

This was before they pretty much promo-ed kits in starters for later release, I'm sure if they did that now, it would have eventually been released separately.

I think gungo is right though, given what we got with the new buggies with how they basically split it into 5 different units, I could see something similar in having different variations.

Yeah, i could easily see the Deffkopta going to more of a jetbuggy instead of a jetbike and having 3-4 variants
Especially considering the Chinork was basically a Deffkopta with a platform trailing behind it and bigger blades on top, and its not being sold anymore, it would make sense to beef it up like they did the buggies. Probably double if not triple its cost as a result too.

Quite frankly, long as they dont do the 6 freaking standalone, static, no option packages again i'd be fine with it anyway.

I could see them doing the archeotech bomber route they did with the mechanicus flyer, not sure if it'd be actual aircraft or not, but I'd prefer having a multipart option kit than, as you said, 6 completely separate monopose/option kits.

Mmm I could see that happening. Each kopter having a unique loadout. But would it give it a unique purpose aside from the new buggies? I suppose being units of 5, having fly and being a bit more fragile/cheaper. I suppose it could be okay.

GW rarely remakes a vehicle anymore.
They will sell less deffkoptas with just an updated model...
But they will sell a ton more if you are forced to throw out all your old deffkoptas and have to buy the new ork chopper... even better if they can make that single kit into 2 seperate unit entries!!!

What worries me is they are doing the same tactic to infantry. The whole primarus thing is just a way for GW to sell new marines to everyone...

I’m hoping the new ork model we saw is just an updated ork boy and not some ork boy replacement disguised as a new boy unit. The good news is we just had a new edition so the deffkopta likely won’t get legends for at least 3+ more years!

gungo wrote:
GW rarely remakes a vehicle anymore.
They will sell less deffkoptas with just an updated model...
But they will sell a ton more if you are forced to throw out all your old deffkoptas and have to buy the new ork chopper... even better if they can make that single kit into 2 seperate unit entries!!!

What worries me is they are doing the same tactic to infantry. The whole primarus thing is just a way for GW to sell new marines to everyone...

I’m hoping the new ork model we saw is just an updated ork boy and not some ork boy replacement disguised as a new boy unit. The good news is we just had a new edition so the deffkopta likely won’t get legends for at least 3+ more years!

Ideally the Ork model is for something else altogether, as mentioned before, having a new boy kit would ruin all the other compatible kits if it has the same monopose features of a lot of the newer kits, since right now a lot of stuff is interchangeable with the base boyz kit.

gungo wrote:
GW rarely remakes a vehicle anymore.
They will sell less deffkoptas with just an updated model...
But they will sell a ton more if you are forced to throw out all your old deffkoptas and have to buy the new ork chopper... even better if they can make that single kit into 2 seperate unit entries!!!

I agree. But I think they are done with FA slots for the foreseeable future.